Unarmored Tony Stark (616) vs Wonder Woman (DCEU)

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blackspidey2099

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#1  Edited By blackspidey2099

Combatants:

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Rules:

  • Diana gets standard gear
  • Tony is armorless, but he has the Extremis Virus in his body and an RT node. He also has a repulsor gauntlet from his Iron Man Model 1 armor.
  • Round 1: Morals On
  • Round 2: Morals Off
  • Who wins?
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AngelJax

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#3 AngelJax  Online

Interesting. How are this version of Tony's reactions. I could use a refresher.

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Noone1996

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#4  Edited By Noone1996

Just gonna leave this here: https://comicvine.gamespot.com/profile/krleavenger/blog/tony-starks-fighting-skills/129878/.

If this was simply a question of raw skill, I'd back Tony 100%, but considering the fact that Diana has enhanced physical abilities, I'd probably say that she wins more often than not. Especially with gear. Although, given his skill and speed, I'd say that she would struggle. Ultimately, he wouldn't be able to put her down, and she would one-shot him if she had enough of a clean shot. However, with his repulsor gauntlet being added to the mix, this actually becomes borderline unfair because Stark himself has stated that his first armor's repulsor rays are about half the strength of his classic suit's beams which is MORE than enough to one-shot her.

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In fact, I'd argue that a full powered MK 1 blast would go through her sword, shield, and chest all at once. DCEU fanatics will argue that he won't even perceive what happened by the time she cuts him into more than one thousand pieces (as if she's never been perceived or tagged by anything slower than massively hypersonic), but with Extremis he seems to be faster than a localized speed of sound sonic attack:

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So I think he should be fine before her organs fall out of the gaping hole Tony's repulsors made.

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Stalin-Is-Steel

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Tony wins, I suppose.

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Kevd4wg

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@noone1996: Didn't Extremis give Tony enhanced stats other then just speed or no?

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KrleAvenger

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#7  Edited By KrleAvenger

My Respect Threads weren't the best at the time, and the one above (that Noone posted) has some questionable claims, lackluster format and lack of feats, so I apologize for that. Regardless, Tony does have much better showing of fighting skills than DCEU Diana and pretty much any DCEU character up to this point for that matter. He was trained by some of the most skilled fighters in the Marvel Universe and was able to ragdoll multiple Skrull Warriors, who are not only pretty skilled race, but all of them have way better stats than Tony and he pretty much schooled them, and he did not have any enhancements at the time. With enhancements, Tony was able to grab Daredevil by the throat and throw him into the sea, all before he could react or counter attack in Superior Iron Man #2, without his armor. In Avengers & X-Men: AXIS #6, Tony actually attacked Matt while being few feet away from him, grabbed him by the throat again with both of his arms, kicked him in the ribs, lifted him with one arm and threw him away. Not only is it almost impossible to catch someone like Matt off guard due to his senses, but Matt is way more skilled than both Tony and DCEU Diana, and his entire fighting style makes physical advantage (which Tony had) pretty much useless, and Tony dealt with him twice pretty easily (Matt's reaction time speed is just as good as Diana's).

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When it comes to Diana's speed, her raw speed and reaction time speed are no better than some other Marvel and DC street levelers, but she is probably faster due to how effectively she can apply both, by blocking multiple bullets while moving at high speeds (although I don't think she outran bullets, more like moving as fast if not faster than the shooter to prevent him from taking a bead on hostages and then block a bullet). So I don't think she is super sonic as people tend to call her, and like Noone showed above, Tony dodged a sound wave blast from Pepper in her new Rescue Armor in Superior Iron Man #9, and add to the fact that he is more skilled than Diana, plus his showing with Daredevil, really makes me believe that he is more than capable of reacting to Diana, especially because not only does she not blitz that often, but she was tagged before by people who are not that fast, like Steppenwolf or Doomsday for example (the latter being someone DCEU Batman actually dodged when Doomsday attacked him). And I'm not trying to lowball Diana. All I'm saying is that she is not Eobard, or Zolomon or Beerus. Some speedster who abuses his/her speed and can't be touched. For the record, Tony dodged an electricity discharge from point blank range in Iron Man: Fatal Frontier #6 (Infinite Comic).

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To make this even more impressive, he did this without any Extremis enhancements. Which is extremely impressive because Extremis increases Tony's speed more than anything, to the point that he blitzed Mallen (first Extremis specimen) and moved faster than his eyes could even track after receiving it, with Mallen being the same character who moved faster than Tony could even operate his armor based on Tony's own statement prior to receiving the Extremis. And yes, he did that in his armor but he was also blitzed in the previous armor which also increases his speed, and while Tony did say that Extremis Armor is faster at base than other armors, when he lost Extremis, he operated the suit worse than nigh power less armors, so that speed amp mostly came from Extremis virus itself (for the record, I'm not saying Tony can blitz Mallen without the suit, nor that all of his feats with armor apply to his armorless Extremis version).

This is even crazier when you consider the fact that he was able to process information in span of picoseconds with Extremis in Iron Man Vol. 4 #31 (which is like 1.000 times more impressive than his previous showing of perception, when he stated he can measure time in nanoseconds due to R.T. Node upgrade back in Iron Man Annual #15), and was able to see explosions in slow motion and make his suit come to him before the heat of those explosions even reached him even tho they were about to hit him from point blank range, yet Tony was still able to notice them, see them, process his thoughts and call forth the armor to protect him all before it even reaches him (so it's a speed feat without the armors, since he was yet to put them on in the first place) in Invincible Iron-man Vol. 1 #2-3 and Invincible Iron-man Vol. 1 #30-31 respectively. And I'm not saying Tony can move in span of nanoseconds and picoseconds.

So given how massive of a speed boost Extremis gives Tony, the feat Tony preformed above is just more ridiculous. Considering other feats I brought up, plus the one Noone mentioned, I'm pretty confident that Tony can deal with Diana's speed without much difficulty.

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Now, there is still Diana's impressive striking power, and Tony, while still having enhanced strength due to Extremis, is still a street leveler, and Diana's strength is obviously above that level. However, to be frank, given Tony's speed and skill, I don't think she will have a chance to hit Tony before he is done with her.

For the sake of not making this sound like nonsense, Tony's gauntlets have the ability to control magnetism. Tony used this to actually disarm his opponents. Actually, this is one of the first things he has done in his entire publication, in his first Armor (Tony uses those gauntlets here), Model 1, to disarm Red Guerillas all the way back in Tales of Suspense #39. So not only it is in character for him to do so, but it is also something this armor is capable of doing. This can allow Tony to either disarm Diana and move her sword and shield away, or use them against her and push her backwards to give him more time to react to her and attack her. He did the same thing to Captain America holding his shield in Avengers/Invaders #2 (expect there he actually pulled him towards him).

Or he can use it to hold Diana in place with magnets themselves, like he did to Classic Hulk and Namor in Avengers Vol. 1 #3. And while he used his Classic Armor in that instance, which shouldn't apply to this version, because it's weaker, it's just there to prove that it is in character for Tony. Even this armor should be able to hold DCEU Diana long enough for it to be a factor. After all, even this armor was able to reflect Mjolnir back to Thor after the angry God threw it at Space Phantom as Iron Man, using magnets. So I'm pretty sure he can either hold Diana in place to push her backwards or just hold her and then attack her while she is helpless.

And even if Diana manages to hit Tony, I don't think she would outright one-shot him. Extremis gives Tony nigh Wolverine level healing factor, and he had his entire body turned into a squashed mess and he regenerated in seconds. And while that is probably his most impressive healing factor feat, he does have other pretty absurd healing factor feats that saved him from things that would cause permanent physical injury or even death (I can list them if necessary, or provide scans).

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The key factor to beating Diana (aside from magnetism) are Tony's repulsors, and while they are far from being the most powerful gauntlets out there, since only Model 1 feats are allowed, Noone posted a scan from Iron Man Vol. 1 #192, where Tony stated that repulsors from Model 1 contain half the power of way more powerful suit Rhodey was using. And while that may not seem like much, considering how powerful those repulsors are, they should be more than enough to get rid of Diana. Not only because Rhodey was morals off when he fought Tony from that fight Noone posted, but because that same Rhodey, in the exact same Armor, under the exact same writer, in the exact same arc, just 4 issues prior to the one I just brought up (Iron Man Vol. 1 #188) was able to do this:

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He destroys mountains, pretty casually at that. And this was just because he was frustrated. When he fought Tony, he was incredibly aggressive and was pretty much morals off the way we on Vine say it. And Tony still stated that his Model 1 repulsors are half to power of the one Rhodey has, and even if we take that with a grain of salt and not use this specific feat for scaling, it still puts things into perspective and gives us an idea of how powerful these repulsors are. Even if one is not enough, Tony can fire a bit more, which should be enough to knock Diana out, especially in combination with magnetism. For the sake of not relying on one statement only, those blasts were also powerful enough to make Grey Hulk scream out in pain in Hulk: Gray #4. Now, that was not even Joe Fixit. That was first appearance Grey Hulk, who is probably weaker than classic green Gravage Hulk who is like 80 tonner arguably as strong, if not a little weaker than Hercules and Thor. So pretty weak Hulk. However, even this version of the Hulk was capable of beating Model 1 Golden Iron Man, who himself tanked blows from Gravage Hulk and even tank few blows from Thor in Avengers Season One.

=============================================================================================

This scaling may be redundant or kinda broken at this point, but given that most of Diana's feats are based off of scaling with other characters like Ares, Superman and Doomsday, I don't think it's that bad of a comparison. At the end of the day, I think Tony can win this due to being a better fighter, having more than enough speed to keep up (and Diana being tagged before), possessing impressive healing factor that could save him, having means to either get rid of Diana's gear or simply use it to his advantage, and overall packing enough power to put her down which can be believable even further once he exploits his magnetism abilities to hold her in place.

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TheKinfing

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@krleavenger:

When it comes to Diana's speed, her raw speed and reaction time speed are no better than some other Marvel and DC street levelers.

You lost me here.

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Stalin-Is-Steel

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@thekinfing: Maybe you should get the full context by reading the rest of the post? Just a humble suggestion.

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Noone1996

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#10  Edited By Noone1996

@kevd4wg: Yeah his durability and strength was enhanced too.

Here he completely overpowers and manhandles Daredevil:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

He also had some amazing showings against Clarence Ward (guy who stole Tony's armor):

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He was literally thrown by a class 100 through a window and recovers instantly. He doesn't have a single bruise or cut on him.

While partially armored, he even withstood some hits to the face by Ward:

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To be fair, he was only missing a face-plate in the last two scans, so it's likely that the helmet was dampening most of the impact.

He also withstood several hits from old man Captain America while enhanced by a damaged War Machine armor:

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He also had a pretty good healing factor too:

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He even dared Wolverine to take his best shot and watch him heal:

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I've got plenty more too. He also fought Mr. Fantastic during the War Bound gladiator games in World War Hulk while simultaneously trying to hack Sakaaran robots, held his own against a pissed off Captain America (whom he bloodied), fought and beat Ezekiel Stane h2h, staggered and withstood a hit back from Sebastian Shaw, etc. These aren't even feats that he's accomplished without Extremis either. I'm just going off of purely Extremis showings right now.

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KyleBroflovski

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Wonder Woman curbs.

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Noone1996

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@krleavenger: Why don't you edit the post and spruce it up a bit then?

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Kevd4wg

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KrleAvenger

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Actually, I won't need to post scans. A lot of scans Noone posted above are actually the ones I was referring to (not all of them).

@noone1996 Why would I LOL? I didn't complain about it not being good enough. It is fine as it is (aside from few typing errors which I'm fixing at the moment). Or did you accidentally tag me while you wanted to tag someone else. I didn't even receive notification.

@thekinfing In what way? You mean like getting confused or lost in sense that you stopped taking the post seriously or something LOL? Whichever one it is, I think you should read the next part. Maybe I wasn't 100% clear. What I was trying to say is, while moving at high speeds while blocking bullets is not something a lot of street levelers can do, overall speed of her movement is not above street levelers. Blocking bullets is nice but Elektra and Mister X have way better speed feat than that. Moving around the room before a guy shoots a hostage is decent but Spider-man outruns bullets for several panels, Batman occasionally teleports and Captain America outruns bullets. Again, most of them can't block bullets while moving at high speeds like Diana can, but speed she is reaches isn't something street levelers can't deal with through their own reflexes and skill. Tony has both plus way better perception speed.

@kevd4wg Thanks man.

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KyleBroflovski

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#15  Edited By KyleBroflovski

@krleavenger said:

Actually, I won't need to post scans. A lot of scans Noone posted above are actually the ones I was referring to (not all of them).

@noone1996 Why would I LOL? I didn't complain about it not being good enough. It is fine as it is (aside from few typing errors which I'm fixing at the moment). Or did you accidentally tag me while you wanted to tag someone else. I didn't even receive notification.

@thekinfing In what way? You mean like getting confused or lost in sense that you stopped taking the post seriously or something LOL? Whichever one it is, I think you should read the next part. Maybe I wasn't 100% clear. What I was trying to say is, while moving at high speeds while blocking bullets is not something a lot of street levelers can do, overall speed of her movement is not above street levelers. Blocking bullets is nice but Elektra and Mister X have way better speed feat than that. Moving around the room before a guy shoots a hostage is decent but Spider-man outruns bullets for several panels, Batman occasionally teleports and Captain America outruns bullets. Again, most of them can't block bullets while moving at high speeds like Diana can, but speed she is reaches isn't something street levelers can't deal with through their own reflexes and skill. Tony has both plus way better perception speed.

@kevd4wg Thanks man.

616 Iron Man is a bullet timer?

For some reason I highly doubt that.

OT Diana still curbs. Way faster and stronger.

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Kevd4wg

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@kylebroflovski: Krle showed his perception/thinking speed was in the picosecond frame. For reference, light travels 1/1000 of a foot within a picosecond, Krle explained that he can't act anywhere close to that speed, but he can think/perceive at those speeds

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KrleAvenger

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@kylebroflovski: Even tho there are multiple posts above you that showcase Tony's speed and clear detailed explanation as to how and why his perception speed is superior to Diana's, you are not gonna even bother looking at that and just say how you doubt it? You are entitled to doubt anything but when info is literally on the same internet page you are commenting on, you should at least pay attention or look into it first. Regardless, bullet timing has nothing to do with perception. It is related to reaction time speed. Reflexes and brain speed are not the same thing. Regardless, Tony did actually bullet time in Iron Man Vol. 1 #277.

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He did have his armor here, but Neo Classic armor barely had any speed enhancements, like most early Armors. R.T. Node and Extremis upgrades gave Tony way more speed than this Armor did, plus the fact that he naturally became faster without outside source simply by being in Armor for so long. Don't know how that's relevant to perception but whatever. I already posted way better speed feats for Tony, and the only reason why I did not bring this one up is because Diana has better feats than this one. You wanted it so here it is.

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Noone1996

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@kylebroflovski: Lmao now you're going so far as to say that 616 Iron Man can't bullet time? Jesus the embarrassment never stops with you does it? I suppose you think Diana can beat 616 Iron Man don't you?

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Lil_Remains

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@kylebroflovski: If you’re asking if Iron-Man is a bullet timer, you clearly know nothing about the character, because he consistently exceeds that casually. So, why do you assume Diana stomps? Is it blind bias?

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Noone1996

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@krleavenger: You said you were missing scans and had errors so I suggested adding more to it to perfect it. I agree that it's good enough which is why I posted the link in the first place but I'm sure you can make the thread longer too.

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TheKinfing

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@krleavenger: I did read all of your posts, and I did take it seriously, but Diana having Street-Level speed is my biggest disagreement. What Mr. X and Elektra do is essencially a full tier below what Diana did at the beginning of JL, she blocked 20+ bullets while simultaneously saving he hostages, the closets feat I can think of would be Gorgon blocking bullets with his sword, but I personally don't think prime Gorgon to be Street-Tier. Captain America outrunning bullets is a pretty huge outlier unless we believe both his perception and travel speed are above Mach 2, which we both know it isn't. Yeah Batman occasionaly teleports, but that has to do more with settings and stealth than actuall raw speed, on average he's probably blur/blink speed, but he doesn't really ghost characters consistently enough for me to claim that's he's consistent level, infact there's a scan in which he flat out states he doesn't move FTE but rather just appears to do so with ''teatrics'', the word escapes me right now but it was something among those lines, and while it was during his early Post-Crisis carrer I don't think Bruce improve so much that I can take all of his teleporting feats at face value.

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Kevd4wg

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@thekinfing: You don't think this is similar to what Wonder Woman did?

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TheKinfing

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@kevd4wg: Handguns are noticeable slower than Assault Rifles. Diana feat also seems alot more complex due to she needing to move the hostages.

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KrleAvenger

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#24  Edited By KrleAvenger

@thekinfing:

I did read all of your posts, and I did take it seriously, but Diana having Street-Level speed is my biggest disagreement.

Alright. I was just asking. Wasn't assertive on my part.

What Mr. X and Elektra do is essencially a full tier below what Diana did at the beginning of JL, she blocked 20+ bullets while simultaneously saving he hostages, the closets feat I can think of would be Gorgon blocking bullets with his sword, but I personally don't think prime Gorgon to be Street-Tier.

Both X's and Elektra's feats are just as good, if not better than Gorgon's (I have issue numbers so if you want them, just ask):

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

The only difference between these feats that Diana's is that they weren't actually moving their entire body. Depending on who you ask, that could actually be more impressive because the shooter has a clear bead on you, but I'm not gonna go there. Like I said, depending on who you ask. I don't see how what Diana did is on a completely different tier. She just reflects bullets while moving faster than the shooter. Black Panther pretty much blitzed bullet timers.

Captain America outrunning bullets is a pretty huge outlier unless we believe both his perception and travel speed are above Mach 2, which we both know it isn't.

Bullets don't move at mach 2, at least not regular bullets. If you want to bring perception into consideration, Cap literally sees bullets in slow motion, due to his enhanced physiology. As for traveling speed, he outran Daredevil and moved like a blur to him, and he's a guy who not only ricochets bullets after being fired while being weakened and distracted, but he can actually move faster than bullets. He was also stated to be equal to T'Challa in every physical way, who like I said, is the guy who schools bullet timers due to speed alone. Rogers is also one of casual bullet timers who can preform multi tasking feats in the span of bullets moving before he dodges them.

Regardless, I don't want to get completely off track here because Diana being a street leveler speed wise or not does not affect my point about Tony. But for the record, I actually said Diana is probably faster than most street levelers. But I really don't see how she is faster than Spider-man, Wolverine, Black Panther and other characters with similar power sets as them. At least, being capable of reaching speeds street levelers can't react to. What's impressive about her speed is effective use of both combat speed and reaction time speed, implying that they are even more impressive individually. But that's not street tier+. More like high end street tier.

Yeah Batman occasionaly teleports, but that has to do more with settings and stealth than actuall raw speed, on average he's probably blur/blink speed, but he doesn't really ghost characters consistently enough for me to claim that's he's consistent level, infact there's a scan in which he flat out states he doesn't move FTE but rather just appears to do so with ''teatrics'', the word escapes me right now but it was something among those lines, and while it was during his early Post-Crisis carrer I don't think Bruce improve so much that I can take all of his teleporting feats at face value.

If that really is the case than he is slower than most Marvel street levelers who are less skilled than he is.

Anyway, don't want to get too off track here. And I'm trying to limit the amount of my daily posts.

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Kevd4wg

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@thekinfing said:

@kevd4wg: Handguns are noticeable slower than Assault Rifles. Diana feat also seems alot more complex due to she needing to move the hostages.

Fair

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KyleBroflovski

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@kylebroflovski: Even tho there are multiple posts above you that showcase Tony's speed and clear detailed explanation as to how and why his perception speed is superior to Diana's, you are not gonna even bother looking at that and just say how you doubt it? You are entitled to doubt anything but when info is literally on the same internet page you are commenting on, you should at least pay attention or look into it first. Regardless, bullet timing has nothing to do with perception. It is related to reaction time speed. Reflexes and brain speed are not the same thing. Regardless, Tony did actually bullet time in Iron Man Vol. 1 #277.

He did have his armor here, but Neo Classic armor barely had any speed enhancements, like most early Armors. R.T. Node and Extremis upgrades gave Tony way more speed than this Armor did, plus the fact that he naturally became faster without outside source simply by being in Armor for so long. Don't know how that's relevant to perception but whatever. I already posted way better speed feats for Tony, and the only reason why I did not bring this one up is because Diana has better feats than this one. You wanted it so here it is.

I misinterpreted what you were saying, I assumed you meant unarmored unamped 616 Iron Man had similar reactions and speed to Wonder Woman.

I'm not sure how that's completely relevant unless he has bullet time feats unarmored.

@kevd4wg said:

@kylebroflovski: Krle showed his perception/thinking speed was in the picosecond frame. For reference, light travels 1/1000 of a foot within a picosecond, Krle explained that he can't act anywhere close to that speed, but he can think/perceive at those speeds

I'm not sure how that's relevant at all if he can't react at similar speeds.

@kylebroflovski: Lmao now you're going so far as to say that 616 Iron Man can't bullet time? Jesus the embarrassment never stops with you does it? I suppose you think Diana can beat 616 Iron Man don't you?

Right, I don't think 616 Iron Man has Wonder Woman level physicals like you and I'm the embarrassment?

Lol, it's non stop comedy hour with you. First MCU Iron Man can hit harder than DCEU Superman and now 616 Iron Man has physicals like DCEU Wonder Woman. You're dreaming.

@kylebroflovski: If you’re asking if Iron-Man is a bullet timer, you clearly know nothing about the character, because he consistently exceeds that casually. So, why do you assume Diana stomps? Is it blind bias?

Because I don't believe unarmored Iron Man has physicals enough to contend with Wonder Woman and haven't seen a single piece of evidence to believe otherwise. No bias there, just logic.

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RampageTheFirst

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Tony.

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jashugan

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#28  Edited By jashugan

@krleavenger: diana doesn't and has never moved at high speeds when bullet blocking.

She only moved at high speeds when killing germans and fighting doomsday.

Matter of fact most bullet blocking feats aren't as impressive as many users here think they are, not in comics or live action. They almost never indicate supersonic speeds.

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Noone1996

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Right, I don't think 616 Iron Man has Wonder Woman level physicals like you and I'm the embarrassment?

Lol, it's non stop comedy hour with you. First MCU Iron Man can hit harder than DCEU Superman and now 616 Iron Man has physicals like DCEU Wonder Woman. You're dreaming.

WHAT?!?!? LMAOOOOOOOOOOOO!

Please tell me you are joking... Do you know anything about 616 Iron Man at all??

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KyleBroflovski

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@noone1996: So you're actually going to sit there and say unarmored 616 Iron Man has physicals comparable to Wonder Woman?

Let me see those scans. I'd love to see those scans of unarmored 616 Iron Man bullet timing and lifting tanks. Show me unarmored Iron Man lifting a tank and bullet timing.

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Noone1996

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@kylebroflovski: I thought you meant 616 armored Iron Man. Obviously we're in agreement about armorless Stark not being anywhere near her physicals.

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KyleBroflovski

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@noone1996: Lol well it wasn't obvious to me because I thought that's actually where you were going with that. Just read your first post though and I'm happy to see you at least have a semblance of reason about you when confronted with insurmountable evidence.

I still don't see why Wonder Woman doesn't just blitz him and curb his head in with her boot. Those repulsor feats aren't going to put her down.

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Noone1996

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Lol well it wasn't obvious to me because I thought that's actually where you were going with that.

You said 616 Iron Man, so forgive me for actually thinking you were talking about Iron Man and not unarmored Iron Man.

Just read your first post though and I'm happy to see you at least have a semblance of reason about youwhen confronted with insurmountable evidence.

Well there's a first time for everything.

I still don't see why Wonder Woman doesn't just blitz him and curb his head in with her boot. Those repulsor feats aren't going to put her down.

I already showed him displaying supersonic reaction/movement speeds and 50% of mountain leveling repulsors would go through Diana and her gear, Doomsday, and the rest of the JLA at once.

You had to ruin this relieving misunderstanding by saying this crap....

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IndomitableRegal

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@noone1996: @kylebroflovski: You know, I feel like this wouldn't happened if you called unarmored Iron Man "Tony" instead lol. Most people don't call him Iron Man unless he's in the suit. XD

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Noone1996

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deactivated-5c8fd6cb3e4f4

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TheKinfing

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@krleavenger: I'm on my phone right now and like you said Tony doesn't really wins solely because of speed, so this is going to be my last post on the subject if you don't mind:

I searched how fast are bullets and the literal first thing that came up was 1,700 MPH. Which is around Mach 2.2 wayyy above Cap travel speed, and while I'm aware he has said that he ''thinks faster'' and is capable of seeing bullets in slow mo I don't believe he's close to being that fast consistently. Link: https://www.google.hn/search?q=how+fast+are+bullets&oq=how+fas&aqs=chrome.0.69i59j69i60j69i57j69i59j69i60j69i59.1696j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

There's also the question on how slow do Steve perceives bullets, does he straight look them frozen or its more like MCU Quicksilver? It should logically be the latter, though he's probably not even as fast as that.

Being perfectly honest I have never been particularly impressed with T'challa speed, it seems he most scales from other characters and he lacks standalone feats on that tier, and with a character with over 500 showings that has been fairly popular for 30+ years then that should tell you something.

I feel your Daredevil v Cap example doesn't work unless we are operating under the notion that Cap is *much* faster than bullets, if we are talking about slower bullets in the sub-Mach 1 or so that would be fine, but just how fast do you think Cap is? If we assume he's capable of sprinting at 100Km per hour that would only make him Mach 0.8. T'chally and Steve being stated equals just seems like a diservice of the latter speed, I know writers don't put much though on feats and characters abilities and that they pretty much rank all the characters on a bracket nigh-equally, but Steve has much better speed feats without scaling, and he's probably on par even with scaling.

Yeah, that scan does make Batman look pretty bad, atleast compared to some other Mid-Street levelers, but I believe they where trying to make him more grounded during that era, ala Byrne with Superman.

Just for the record, I'm not claiming or denying any side loses, I just believe DCEU characters are underrated (I know i'm going to get shit for this comment, but that's just how I feel).

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ProfessorRespect

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@thekinfing: Thor is underrated, Superman isn't. Nice try, we ALL know How biased you actually truly are in reality

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TheKinfing

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ProfessorRespect

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@thekinfing: Tha's for you to solve, my young friend. Clearly not anyone here, anyway. That'd be obvious for ya boi

Besides, Superman is BADLY overated compared to dudes like MCU Thor and Odin. Hell, even the comic book versions are placed on the backburner. I'm back here to solve that.

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KyleBroflovski

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@noone1996:

I already showed him displaying supersonic reaction/movement speeds and 50% of mountain leveling repulsors would go through Diana and her gear, Doomsday, and the rest of the JLA at once.

You had to ruin this relieving misunderstanding by saying this crap....

And Wonder Woman can tank island level heat vision on her shield and bracelets point blank, so that won't be a problem.

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No Caption Provided

Yeah, Wonder Woman curbs. She probably wouldn't need her sword.

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Noone1996

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@kylebroflovski: Lmao at Doomsday having island level heat vision. Energy projection spreading across the distance and surface of a small island < completely destroying a mountain. You know that even nukes cannot destroy an island or mountain, right?

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TheBeardOfZues

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@kylebroflovski: Lmao "Island level"

I guess that bolder Batman hid behind was a Country.

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RuthlessKiller

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@noone1996:

I already showed him displaying supersonic reaction/movement speeds and 50% of mountain leveling repulsors would go through Diana and her gear, Doomsday, and the rest of the JLA at once.

You had to ruin this relieving misunderstanding by saying this crap....

And Wonder Woman can tank island level heat vision on her shield and bracelets point blank, so that won't be a problem.

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Yeah, Wonder Woman curbs. She probably wouldn't need her sword.

Island level my ass. You know that destroying everything on an island's surface is lesser than destroying a mountain, right? Oh wait, it's you kyle

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KrleAvenger

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@kylebroflovskiUnarmored is not equivalent to non amped. Tony actually has two things that increase his speed more than his actual armor, those being his Repulsor Tech Node in his chest, and Extremis Virus he injected himself with. Those two things together give him way better speed boost than the Armor itself, and since Neo Classic Armor doesn't have that good of reflexes boost, that's why it's irrelevant. I didn't say Tony has comparable combat speed to DCEU Diana but he does have way better perception simply because his increased perception does not come from the Armor itself but his Extremis Virus enhancements. Regardless, both Noone and I brought up feats of armorless Tony having enough reaction time speed to react to Diana so check them out.

@jashugan Not sure why you are telling me this. I myself said she has no supersonic speed.

@_kingoflatveria In Born Again. Daredevil Vol. 1 #233 to be exact. I won't be posting scans tho. Don't want to go too off track.

@thekinfing After reading your post, I don't think we actually have different views on DCEU Diana overall speed. Seems to me like we both have the same view of her speed. It's just that we have different views of street levelers and their overall speed. In sense that, I don't have low views on Diana's speed but high views on street leveler's speed. Or you have low views on street tier speed and not high views on Diana's speed. Whatever you wanna call it.

I'm on my phone right now and like you said Tony doesn't really wins solely because of speed, so this is going to be my last post on the subject if you don't mind:

Sure, no problem.

Just for the record, I'm not claiming or denying any side loses,

Alright, cool.

I just believe DCEU characters are underrated (I know i'm going to get shit for this comment, but that's just how I feel).

I honestly think they are some of the most overrated characters on this forum, just like MCU and CW.

But that is subjective and irrelevant so...

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jashugan

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@thekinfing: DCEU characters aren't underrated, the singular characters are flat out more powerful than their peers in the other live action verses.

The problem comes in because there are far too many fanboys and irritating children on this forum that do not like using their brain and also like arguing based on what they like rather than what is sensible.

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Amonfire1776

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Tony wins...

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KyleBroflovski

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#48  Edited By KyleBroflovski

@noone1996 said:

@kylebroflovski: Lmao at Doomsday having island level heat vision. Energy projection spreading across the distance and surface of a small island < completely destroying a mountain. You know that even nukes cannot destroy an island or mountain, right?

Superman crashed into and leveled the top of a mountain in his literal first time trying to fly, so that's not very impressive. Zod's heat vision is city level and Doomsday's is stronger so it shouldn't be too difficult to wrap your brain around.

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@thebeardofzues said:

@kylebroflovski: Lmao "Island level"

I guess that bolder Batman hid behind was a Country.

Not really a response to my argument. Yes, Doomsday heat vision is island by feats and scaling. Try again.

@ruthlesskiller said:

Island level my ass. You know that destroying everything on an island's surface is lesser than destroying a mountain, right? Oh wait, it's you kyle

No, yeah sorry it is actually island level by feats and scaling. And you know that Superman leveled a mountain his first time trying to fly and yet is hurt by Doomsday's heat vision? Try again.

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Kevd4wg

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4 Skyscrapers = City level

Not destroying a boulder and covering a small island in your AoE = >>>> Nukes

God I love Comic Vine

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TheBeardOfZues

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