Ultron (What If) Vs. DBS Goku

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Eisenfauste

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#1  Edited By Eisenfauste

Ultron

No Caption Provided

VS

Goku

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Rules

  • Fight on indestructible planet
  • Speed is equal

Bonus round: He fuses with vegeta

Speed isn't equal

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Eisenfauste

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death4bunnies

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#3  Edited By death4bunnies  Moderator  Online
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darkphantom9895

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#4  Edited By darkphantom9895

Ultron one shots both rounds he beat the watcher who is a 5d being and has a ton of hax to

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Eisenfauste

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Aksilroch

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rajjarsalt

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Ultron rampages through DBS and wipes it clean

Contention 1: Multiverse Merging Bullrush

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Contention 2: Universe Busting Beatdown

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rajjarsalt

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@aksilroch: Watcher said he is a 5-dimensional being

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darkphantom9895

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Aksilroch

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@rajjarsalt: He said "We are beyond the multiverse" but we don't know if ots infiniely greater.

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rajjarsalt

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#11  Edited By rajjarsalt

@rajjarsalt: He said "We are beyond the multiverse" but we don't know if ots infiniely greater.

Naw naw naw this new evidence is from I am Groot S2

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Aksilroch

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deactivated-6664a33a71ba8

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Should I bring up the consistent epic Black widow level scaling he has or the Captain Carter one

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darkphantom9895

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Aksilroch

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rajjarsalt

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#16  Edited By rajjarsalt
@aksilroch said:

@darkphantom9895: It is still weird that he struggled againat Thoe src.

Well, Thor is Odin's son and god of the thunder, with his own power to bear. Goku struggles with just about anyone, they get scaled to universal or multiversal

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zeedeez

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so is it basically just breaking through reality because gogeta and broly has already done that and mui should atleast scale equal to or above the feat not to mention he was already threatening to destroy the universe with god form a few arcs back current goku should be low multiversal

also it looks more reality warping than destroying universes

all in all i dont think goku would win this unless he gets better feats because the most he has is being stronger than his beerus vs god goku arc uni punch clash and shaking the infinite void

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Nicov

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Ultron stomps

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Aristeaus

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Ultron had problems with street level characters and was undone by an arrow to the eye. Pretty sure Goku puts out more force then a human female with a bow.

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darkphantom9895

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#20  Edited By darkphantom9895

@zeedeez: no there are many ways to interpret their battle you could say they were destroying infinite universes sense they turned a infinite multiverse into one messy soup

You could also accept the watcher who claims he’s a 5h dimensional Being and that he sees lower dimensional people as nothing but stories

He’s also above the watcher who’s stated to eb above casual time line busters like Kang or dormmamu and his dark dimension

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death4bunnies

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#21  Edited By death4bunnies  Moderator  Online

@zeedeez said:

so is it basically just breaking through reality because gogeta and broly has already done that and mui should atleast scale equal to or above the feat not to mention he was already threatening to destroy the universe with god form a few arcs back current goku should be low multiversal

also it looks more reality warping than destroying universes

all in all i dont think goku would win this unless he gets better feats because the most he has is being stronger than his beerus vs god goku arc uni punch clash and shaking the infinite void

Ummmm… no.

It says explicitly they are destroying universes.. and it’s not the first time Vultron did so as he destroyed his own universe before even fighting watcher.

I dont know how they can be more explicit.

——

Universe soup WOG.

No Caption Provided

I believe referring to this feat.

Ultron bullrushes the Watcher through several universes
Ultron bullrushes the Watcher through several universes

——

And then a second WOG saying he was destroying universes outright.

Ultron retcons the continuity of his surroundings with every punch
Ultron retcons the continuity of his surroundings with every punch
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Omega7373663

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#22  Edited By Omega7373663

Ultron had problems with street level characters and was undone by an arrow to the eye. Pretty sure Goku puts out more force then a human female with a bow.

Goku still can't tank his multi universal reality warping

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death4bunnies

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#23 death4bunnies  Moderator  Online

Ultron had problems with street level characters and was undone by an arrow to the eye. Pretty sure Goku puts out more force than a human female with a bow.

.img farmer with a shotgun

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darkphantom9895

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@Aristeaus said:

Ultron had problems with street level characters and was undone by an arrow to the eye. Pretty sure Goku puts out more force then a human female with a bow.

Goku still can't tank his multi universal reality warping

Ultron could hurt the watcher who claims to be a 5th dimensional being

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Aristeaus

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@Aristeaus said:

Ultron had problems with street level characters and was undone by an arrow to the eye. Pretty sure Goku puts out more force then a human female with a bow.

Goku still can't tank his multi universal reality warping

Doesn't matter. Ultron can't even react to Goku here. He, again, was getting hit by street level characters. He couldn't react to them, what makes you think he is reacting to the guy who is MFTL+?

I don't have a problem with Ultron having the power to end Goku. I have a problem with people assuming he would even have a chance too.

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Aristeaus

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#26  Edited By Aristeaus

@Aristeaus said:

Ultron had problems with street level characters and was undone by an arrow to the eye. Pretty sure Goku puts out more force than a human female with a bow.

.img farmer with a shotgun

Hey now... lets not talk about the goat like that.

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darkphantom9895

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#27  Edited By darkphantom9895

@Aristeaus: ultron relative to the watcher who transcends all planes of space and time in the multiverse is beyond linear time and states that the boundaries of the multiverse are irrelevant to him the multiverse has dimensions completely beyond time

He statues mftl goku

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death4bunnies

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#28 death4bunnies  Moderator  Online

@death4bunnies said:
@Aristeaus said:

Ultron had problems with street level characters and was undone by an arrow to the eye. Pretty sure Goku puts out more force than a human female with a bow.

.img farmer with a shotgun

Hey now... lets not talk about the goat like that.

Lol fair fair.

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Aristeaus

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@omega7373663 said:
@Aristeaus said:

Ultron had problems with street level characters and was undone by an arrow to the eye. Pretty sure Goku puts out more force then a human female with a bow.

Goku still can't tank his multi universal reality warping

Ultron could hurt the watcher who claims to be a 5th dimensional being

Sure. Again, that doesn't matter. Ultron's output isn't the issue. Its that he has terrible reaction time and speed and his durability is awful.

Those two combinations are really bad. If a character can kill you in one punch, which clearly Goku can, and you aren't capable to reacting or even perceiving his speed... your dead.

Ultron has no chance here.

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Aristeaus

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@Aristeaus: ultron relative to the watcher who transcends all planes of space and time in the multiverse is beyond linear time and states that the boundaries of the multiverse are irrelevant to him the multiverse has dimensions completely beyond time

He statues mftl goku

He literally couldn't react to human/super soldier tier characters very well. What the fuck are you talking about?

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darkphantom9895

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#31  Edited By darkphantom9895

@Aristeaus: all amped by strange try again

I’m starting to think you never watched what if or actually know what your talking about and if you want to downplay speed so bad I can do same for db cause they have plenty of garbage feats

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Nicov

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@Aristeaus: all amped by strange try again

I’m starting to think you never watched what if or actually know what your talking about and if you want to downplay speed so bad I can do same for db cause they have plenty of garbage feats

Speed ​​doesn't matter since it's equal, and I consider Ultron wins easily, but that being said, he's right.

The characters were amped by Strange but only stamina. Speed ​​is never talked about.

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Aristeaus

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@Aristeaus: all amped by strange try again

I’m starting to think you never watched what if or actually know what your talking about and if you want to downplay speed I can do same for db cause they have plenty of garbage feats

Im starting to think you have no concept of reality.

Strange didn't amp their speeds. Watch it again.

Also, the very concept that strange can amp several people to be able to, as you say, "statue MFTL speeds", is laughable.

Finally, the stones don't provide passive stat increases. Its been pretty well established. Its why Cap and co could fight ultron in AoU. Its why Cap level characters can fight Ultron in What If. So again, why do you think Ultron is somehow capable of statuing MFTL speeds when he couldn't react to arrows, hammers, or shields being thrown at him? Did Strange amp all their strengths to multiversal too? Why was it that Thor was the only one who did any real damage to him then? Shouldn't Thor be amped in strength as well?

How about laser blasts? Ultron couldn't react to those out of Star Lords gun. Did Strange amp the guns too? lol

Just stop.

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EcoBlitz

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@Aristeaus: you’d literally have to be purposely disingenuous and straight up brain dead to ignore the multiple times ultron either took a planet level attack, a solar system level attack or straight up literally bit a galaxy and took no eye damage to clasp and cling to “hurr arrow damaged him” narrative.

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death4bunnies

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#35 death4bunnies  Moderator  Online

@darkphantom9895: @nicov:

@Aristeaus:

I believe Strange explicitly amped them.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

I thought I made a old thread about it but can’t find.

No Caption Provided

It happens a bunch.. but I don’t have them all at hand.

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darkphantom9895

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#36  Edited By darkphantom9895

@Aristeaus: strange did amp their speeds try again unless you think black widow and carter super soldier are just naturally insane speeds

Alright your official a big troll aou what this isn’t aou ultron lol this is a variant ultron In visions body amped by all 6 magical infinity stones and yes he amped the gun to

Yeah dude just stop your embarrassing yourself Thor only hurt a ultron who was missing an infinity stones the infinity stones amp each other when combined so ultron lost a huge chunk of his power

Strange would simply scale to ultron speeds and everyone he amped as well as per db logic we have featless guys reacting to goku or any mc in db next thing you know people scale them at mftl feats so either we lowball both verse or scale speed the same way

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Aristeaus

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@Aristeaus: strange did amp their speeds try again unless you think black widow and carter super soldier are just naturally insane speeds

Alright your official a big troll aou what this isn’t aou ultron lol this is a variant ultron In visions body amped by all 6 magical infinity stones and yes he amped the gun to

Yeah dude just stop your embarrassing yourself Thor only hurt a ultron who was missing an infinity stones the infinity stones amp each other when combined so ultron lost a huge chunk of his power

Strange would simply scale to ultron speeds and everyone he amped as well as per db logic we have featless guys reacting to goku or any mc in db next thing you know people scale them at mftl feats so either we lowball both verse or scale speed the same way

Foolish boy.

Stones do not provide passive boosts. We know this. It doesn't matter if someone has all 6 stones or not. They aren't magically speedsters. We have literally seen this to be the case. Thanos has had all 6 stones, and still couldn't out muscle Captain Marvel, to the point he had to take a stone out, and punch her with it.

Thanos had 4 stones on Titan and still was getting tagged by street levelers. Where was his passive stat boosts here?

LOL. He "amped" star lords guns... now that is funny.

You should stop. Again.

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darkphantom9895

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#38  Edited By darkphantom9895

@Aristeaus: stones do provide Amps unless you think anyone could one shot ultron which is not the case as he was caught off guard many times with no damage

Trolling again 😂😂😂😂 thanos bruh thanos and an infinity gauntlet nothing like ultron and never showed the ability to use the stones anything like utlron the first thing utlron did when he got the stones was use them change his body and gives him self a cool lance thanos had them on an infinity gauntlet which can’t even uses most the stones power cause it got damaged just doing the snap meanwhile you already agreed with ultrons power

Dr strange amped every weapon on them it’s literally shown the spell around them completely

I’ll ask this again we can either lowball both verse or not lowball at all cause goku and db has tons of anti speed feats and your using the same logic to wank db that your using to debunk ultron speed every time a new character gets introduced in db they basically have 0 speed feats they react to goku and suddenly you scale them mftl no lol not how it works

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Aristeaus

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#39  Edited By Aristeaus

@Aristeaus: stones do provide Amps unless you think anyone could one shot ultron which is not the case as he was caught off guard many times with no damage

Trolling again 😂😂😂😂 thanos bruh thanks and an infinity gauntlet nothing like ultron and never showed the ability to use the stones anything like utlron the first thing utlron did when he got the stones was use them change his body and gives him self a cool lance thanos had them on an infinity gauntlet which can’t even uses most the stones power cause it got damaged just doing the snap meanwhile you already agreed with ultrons power

Dr strange amped every weapon on them it’s literally shown the spell around them completely

I’ll ask this again we can either lowball both verse or not lowball at all cause goku and db has tons of anti speed feats and your using the same logic to wank db that your using to debunk ultron speed every time a new character gets introduced in db they basically have 0 speed feats they react to goku and suddenly you scale them mftl no lol not how it works

You are hopeless. The stones do not provide amps. We have seen oh so many people with stones. Stop wanking things that do not exist.

Hell, don't we even have the Russos specifically saying they don't amp? Yeah. Get the fuck out of here.

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darkphantom9895

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#40  Edited By darkphantom9895

@Aristeaus: lol so insult’s because you tried to argue something you have little knowledge about

Feats debunk you ultron statues for scaling to watcher either we use your db logic or we lowball both verses take your pick

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death4bunnies

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#41 death4bunnies  Moderator  Online

@Aristeaus:

No Caption Provided

Idk man.. I think everyone got amped by Stange pretty explicitly.. including their weapons.. Peggy’s shield, Thors hammer, Gamoras sword… and we see Starlord covered in magic. … most these guys don’t really have many antifeats anyways, but I really think it was just Dark Strange enhancements when they fight Vultron.. as everyone’s amped I see no antifeats here.

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Aristeaus

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@Aristeaus:

No Caption Provided

Idk man.. I think everyone got amped by Stange pretty explicitly.. including their weapons.. Peggy’s shield, Thors hammer, Gamoras sword… and we see Starlord covered in magic. … most these guys don’t really have many antifeats anyways, but I really think it was just Dark Strange enhancements when they fight Vultron.. as everyone’s amped I see no antifeats here.

Even the concept of Strange being able to amp 5 people to Ultron levels seems ridiculous.

If he is powerful enough to do that, why can't he just solo Ultron? He is expelling magic 5x that of Ultron just to boost the crew to relevancy. Why couldn't he just boost Thor to 5x Ultron and call it a day?

I still don't think they are amped. If they were all amped to Ultron levels, then they would all be doing damage to Ultron, but that just isn't the case. He was hit with Thors hammer and it took his arm off, but he was also hit with Shields 20 some odd times and it didn't scratch him.

We also specifically see the aura thing that Strange gave them fade and fall away towards the end on some of them. Did Strange magically buff the motorcycle Natasha was on at the end too? I don't recall seeing that scene. Not much point in a motorcycle if your claiming she is MFTL speeds... :-P

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Aksilroch

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Aristeaus

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Aksilroch

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#45  Edited By Aksilroch

@Aristeaus: Who do you have winning at first round? Also Ultron cnanges size and chrushes him.

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death4bunnies

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#46 death4bunnies  Moderator  Online

@death4bunnies said:

@Aristeaus:

No Caption Provided

Idk man.. I think everyone got amped by Stange pretty explicitly.. including their weapons.. Peggy’s shield, Thors hammer, Gamoras sword… and we see Starlord covered in magic. … most these guys don’t really have many antifeats anyways, but I really think it was just Dark Strange enhancements when they fight Vultron.. as everyone’s amped I see no antifeats here.

Even the concept of Strange being able to amp 5 people to Ultron levels seems ridiculous.

Yeah dark Strange the goat.. he did absorb a bunch of creatures and learn a bunch of magic, and break a canon event, and hold a pocket away from universe destruction.. he’s pretty good.

If he is powerful enough to do that, why can't he just solo Ultron? He is expelling magic 5x that of Ultron just to boost the crew to relevancy. Why couldn't he just boost Thor to 5x Ultron and call it a day?

Idk, I don’t know the perimeters of specific spells.. it’s magic, abd Thor pretty powerful himself.. perhaps sorcerer looks around at the tools he has at hand, and Mjolnir and skilled fighters seems useful especially if he can make them relevant.

I still don't think they are amped. If they were all amped to Ultron levels, then they would all be doing damage to Ultron, but that just isn't the case. He was hit with Thors hammer and it took his arm off, but he was also hit with Shields 20 some odd times and it didn't scratch him.

The literal magic around thrn and their hammers seems more reasonable then calling Vultron human level I think.. seems to me that this was a way to make the street players relevant.. amp them with magics.. shown on screen.

We also specifically see the aura thing that Strange gave them fade and fall away towards the end on some of them. Did Strange magically buff the motorcycle Natasha was on at the end too? I don't recall seeing that scene. Not much point in a motorcycle if your claiming she is MFTL speeds... :-P

Lol I’m not the type to try to feverishly try to combat every lowend.. PIS exists..motorcycle is egregious.. but I think the idea of having strange literally cast the spell over them right before they fight Vultron and that spell covering their weapons is pretty important to the story…like the plot…and the animators did have the magic glyohs glow at different points throughout the fights.. idk man… I sure think it’s reasonable to think Strange amping them is why they can fight Vultron, as it happens onscreen.

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Applekidthethird

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#47  Edited By Applekidthethird

All I know is, the unequalized speed round gets Ultron blitzed and obliterated.

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Aristeaus

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Idk, I don’t know the perimeters of specific spells.. it’s magic, abd Thor pretty powerful himself.. perhaps sorcerer looks around at the tools he has at hand, and Mjolnir and skilled fighters seems useful especially if he can make them relevant.

So its a subjective amp? How do you define that then?

The literal magic around thrn and their hammers seems more reasonable then calling Vultron human level I think.. seems to me that this was a way to make the street players relevant.. amp them with magics.. shown on screen.

I don't think so. Remember that the Watcher had infinite universes to pick his guardians of the multiverse from. He could have picked 5 Thors, or 5 Captain Marvels, some Thanos's. some more Stranges, Wandas, etc..., whatever he wanted. He picked those 5 for a specific reason, and it clearly wasn't power or speed.

Since it clearly wasn't an arms race, so to speak, then Vultron's physicals don't seem to be as relevant.

My argument isn't a downgrade of Vultron to X level. Its that Stones aren't natural amps to begin with, so Vultron shouldn't have better strength or speed or durability then Vision would have. Hence the arm getting smashed, and his eye punctured by a arrow.

The same way 4 stone Thanos on Titan, including the space stone which if any stone is responsible for increases to speed... its the space stone, was knocked around by street tiers too.

We start attributing stat bonuses to stones it throws a whole lot of MCU scaling out the window.

Lol I’m not the type to try to feverishly try to combat every lowend.. PIS exists..motorcycle is egregious.. but I think the idea of having strange literally cast the spell over them right before they fight Vultron and that spell covering their weapons is pretty important to the story…like the plot…and the animators did have the magic glyohs glow at different points throughout the fights.. idk man… I sure think it’s reasonable to think Strange amping them is why they can fight Vultron, as it happens onscreen.

Yeah, I am with you on that, but I think the majority of the fight itself is low end PIS. It is a far cry, to me, from the Watcher Vultron fight.

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death4bunnies

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#49 death4bunnies  Moderator  Online

Idk, I don’t know the perimeters of specific spells.. it’s magic, abd Thor pretty powerful himself.. perhaps sorcerer looks around at the tools he has at hand, and Mjolnir and skilled fighters seems useful especially if he can make them relevant.

So its a subjective amp? How do you define that then?

You see it.. strange amps them to n dcreem

covering them in magic visually.. then they fight Vultron. hard to say they are base characters or weapons after that magic amp… so there feats and antifeats start there imo.. Magic amped Thor, Magic amped Carter, Magic amped Tachalla…. Amped explicitly before fighting Vultron, seems like that’s the plot reason for them being able to fight him.

The literal magic around thrn and their hammers seems more reasonable then calling Vultron human level I think.. seems to me that this was a way to make the street players relevant.. amp them with magics.. shown on screen.

I don't think so. Remember that the Watcher had infinite universes to pick his guardians of the multiverse from. He could have picked 5 Thors, or 5 Captain Marvels, some Thanos's. some more Stranges, Wandas, etc..., whatever he wanted. He picked those 5 for a specific reason, and it clearly wasn't power or speed.

He picked heroes.. and thier stats not mattering as much as thier characte cuts towards the strange amp more than against it.

Since it clearly wasn't an arms race, so to speak, then Vultron's physicals don't seem to be as relevant.

They were extremely relevant thus the magic amps.

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That’s not just Thanos sword.. that’s Thanos sword with a spell…visually, still left over from when Strange literally amped them on screen. That’s not nothing.

My argument isn't a downgrade of Vultron to X level. Its that Stones aren't natural amps to begin with, so Vultron shouldn't have better strength or speed or durability then Vision would have. Hence the arm getting smashed, and his eye punctured by a arrow.

The stones giving passive amps is much debated.. I can land on either side, tbh I think it depends on user….however…Vultron made his armor over the Vibranium vision body with the reality stone…vision also isn’t slow imo even if your trying to scale to sacred timeline which has its own problems… but Vultron made his armor with the reality stone.. and bit through a galaxy… saying vision level dura definitely seems false.

The same way 4 stone Thanos on Titan, including the space stone which if any stone is responsible for increases to speed... it’s the space stone, was knocked around by street tiers too.

I think it’s user if the stone and what they do with it.. Ronan seemed to get a passive amp.. Thanos did not.. and the very first thing Vultron did when he got the gauntlet was upgrade himself.

We start attributing stat bonuses to stones it throws a whole lot of MCU scaling out the window.

Naw just give them the feats they have imo..thanos gets his stone feat, Ronan gets his, Vultron gets his… the user matters with the stones. …but the strange spell was definitely an enhancement on stats and weapons I think pretty explicitly which was my only point.

Lol I’m not the type to try to feverishly try to combat every lowend.. PIS exists..motorcycle is egregious.. but I think the idea of having strange literally cast the spell over them right before they fight Vultron and that spell covering their weapons is pretty important to the story…like the plot…and the animators did have the magic glyohs glow at different points throughout the fights.. idk man… I sure think it’s reasonable to think Strange amping them is why they can fight Vultron, as it happens onscreen.

Yeah, I am with you on that, but I think the majority of the fight itself is low end PIS. It is a far cry, to me, from the Watcher Vultron fight.

Yeah some PIS.. but I think most of it was the strange amp.

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MasterBuster666

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Ultron solos any Brick in DBS barring Zeno, GoD, & Angels.