Ultra Instinct Goku vs. Kenshiro (Equal Stats)

@godren: he doesn’t need to tag him on his face or body even if goku blocks every hit can can pint point one vital point in hands and feet’s also using nanto style he can slash goku’s hands if he try’s to block them and you can say ken has UI of his oun as he himself said he doesn’t need to use his senses while fighting but it’s not as hax as goku one but still ken versatility as a fighter is too much

Goku would not one shot Kenshiro tho and he has intangibility. At best it would end in stealmate. Kenshiro would never tag him while Goku would never hit him.

No one seems to know what a hand to hand match only means. It means no extra abilities like Ki blast or intangibility.

The Bio also states stats equalized meaning Goku does not have a speed advantage.

@cable_extreme: If you can't explain to me or show me something similar of Kenshiro being able to tag someone with instantaneous reaction and movement then their isn't any argument to be made here.Equalised stats just makes it even worse.How do you beat someone in H2H combat only with instantaneous reaction time dude?

Not sure if your getting this or not, even if your stats are equal the one that has to think to react will be slower than the one already moving on instinct this is literally common sense Goku isn't thinking he's on autopilot his body is just told fight and dodge and it does so purely on instinct opposed to i have to think to react and strike.

With speed equalized, he may no longer have true instant reaction.

The thing about ultra instinct is even though they start equalized. Goku instantly counters,adapts, in becomes stronger. Kenshinro will stay at the same battle power while goku ascends.Soon as he become stronger its over.

You are stating DBS theory as if it is fact. We don't know the exact properties of Ultra Instinct, nor do we know if Goku's brain reacts any differently than it previously did. All we know is his movements are much more effective, there is no evidence suggesting that goku's speed perception is faster than Kenshiro's (with speed equalized). You are basing your whole argument off of an assumption you are making.

His intangibility comes from martial arts not special ability.

UI is a state of mind where your body moves without thinking about it. Its not about speed but fact Kenshiros brain needs to process what is going on while Gokus doesn't which gives him speed advantage even if their physical speed is equal.

@cable_extreme: lmao dude I'm done.I can't tell if your trolling or just don't know what ultra instinct is dude.your entire argument is based around equalized stats.Now your telling me Goku doesn't have instantaneous reaction time because of equalized stats XD.

@cable_extreme: Dude it's called Mastery of self movement Whis says exactly what it is and it's your body moving on pure instinct without thinking about it that's literally it, it's autopilot mode so since Goku doesn't have to think by default and logic his every move will be onestep ahead.

I dont even get why people use UL Goku in h2h equilize battle. He is nigh untouchable no matter how skilled you are or how many skill moves you have you still wont land a single blow to him.

Lol, typical reaction when your argument gets dismantled. Stats equalized literally means just that, prove that with stats equalized, Goku can move faster than Kenshiro.

But he wasn't one move ahead against Jiren. Jiren managed to block pretty much all of goku's attacks. This would either mean Goku's attacks are not instant as Jiren's speed made up for the thinking disadvantage, or that Goku not thinking during his attacks didn't give him a significant advantage over a more skilled opponent.

Fight goes nowhere

Eventually both get bored

kenshiro

@cable_extreme: you literally didn't dismantle anything dude lol.All you did was deny what UI can do literally.You didn't even have an argument you just kept typing "equal stats".Maybe when you post some evidence of Kenshiro fighting or dealing with anything that has instaneous reaction time you'll have an argument.Also great example using Jiren who is superior to Goku in every stat but couldn't tag him.Meanwhile here you are telling someone with equalized stats is going to tag him.How the hell else do you think Goku was able to compete with Jiren?

Prove Goku's reaction time is instant first. If it was, he would be faster than any being in the universe including Whis. Someone can't be more instant than someone else.

It won't be long now before the fans argue UI Goku is completely untouchable no matter who the opponent. Lol

@cable_extreme: Obviously their is limit to it considering Whis has complete mastery of it and is much faster then Goku.Your asking me to prove something that was explained when it literally occurred.People were literally saying he was moving on instinct alone without thinking.Autopilot lol..Now prove Kenshiro can tag an opponent that can react without thinking and move without thinking?

That isn't stated in DBS anywhere.

Okay, provide the portion where it stated Goku's reactions were instant.

Then explain how Jiren managed to block instant attacks without ultra Instincts. Remember he cannot be faster than instant.

I was refering to an equal stat Hand to hand opponent, either way this match is a stalemate.

@cable_extreme: mastery of self movement disagrees with you.

goku wank is out of control he is not even worthy to be mentioned in the same breath as kenshiro when it comes to H2H

Okay explain how it disagrees with me. You didn't support your main point of Goku having instantaneous reaction. Please do that first so we can continue. :D

I disagree, hand to hand wise, Kenshiro's skill is insane to the point he could end the fight the moment he touches Goku with a huge array of pressure point knowledge. Goku is relatively limited to using blunt force punches and kicks, Kenshiro can stop Goku's heart, make him walk backwards (instead of fowards lol), make him go blind etc... with simple touches.

Atleast read my posts on page 1 before coming at me with any of this.

@godren:

Lol, are asking me how Ultra Instinct works? It's a mental state that clears your mind of everything and allows your body to move freely on its own.You know what means? it means you react instantly to incoming attacks without wasted movement.

Without wasted movement, that is the key phrase. It does not say instant movement. This means it is relied upon by the stats the wielder has, as if he is limited speed wise, he will not waste movement as they will be effective, but they will not increase in speed.

What? Is your argument Jiren? the mortal above Gods of Destruction that wasn't using his full power lol.He blocked some hits because he was fast enough.I'm not sure you understand unless you think I'm saying Goku has infinite speed lmao. Instantaneous reaction allows him to instantly attack or counterattack.His body is moving on its own.Now once again explain to me how Kenshiro lands a blow on someone he isn't faster then using a technique that allows him to attack and counter attack automatically.

The point I am making is that you are saying Goku has instantaneous reaction time. Nothing can be faster than instant meaning that by your statement of Goku having instant reaction means he is the fastest or tied with the fastest in the DBS universe, otherwise his reaction speed truly wouldn't be instant if someone was able to move faster. The point with Jiren is that he does not have Ultra Instinct, yet he was able to counter "instantaneous" speed with his martial knowledge. If you say Jiren was faster than Goku then Goku's speed is not instant. Do you see that flaws in your statements or should I keep pointing out how there are examples of faster beings than Goku in DBS meaning his reaction speed is not instant. If you still think it is, provide proof.

Can't use powers in a hand to hand fight which means he cannot use intangibility.

Goku, omae wa mou shindeiru...

As someone already pointed out Musou Tensei is NOT a power it's a martial art technique in which the user achieves a state of nothingness becoming intangible.

You know what.I have been saying instantaneous reaction this whole time instead of instinctive reaction.Apologies to you lol.I still stand by UI Goku winning though since moving on instinct is faster than moving on your own.

Same could be said about chi blast.

@cable_extreme: Musou Tensei The ultimate secret technique of Hokuto Shin Ken. It is said that only one who embraces the true nature of sorrow can awaken its power. Kenshiro was the first man in Hokuto Shinken's 1800 year history to master Musō Tensei during the epic struggles against his friends and great rivals. Musō Tensei allows the user to achieve a state of "nothingness", impervious to attacks, and commune with the souls of fallen rivals.

Not a power it's a technique meaning it's useable as UI is a technique while Omen is the form that grants UI.

Stop nitpicking, this is a stalemate Goku won't hit Ken. Ken won't hit Goku.

Lol, getting tired I see. I've done the same thing with other words. lol

Looking at your intentional argument, Moving on instinct is something that nearly all martial artist do, they don't manually look through all of their known abilities before they react, their body is trained to react. Granted Goku's instinct are to a greater effect, but Kenshiro's martial prowess should allow him to contend, especially since he has tons of pressure points he can use on Goku.

What makes you think Kenshiro's ki is not involved with this whole matter manipulation technique? It isn't any different than a Kamehameha technique Goku uses. They are both extra powers not allowed in a hand to hand fight.

So then by ^ this logic Goku loses automatically because OP made him break the rules by being in Omen form which grants him Ultra Instinct, or that Goku amps his physicals with ki.

Not nitpicking, it is a logical response to your point. A technique that makes someone intangible is not a physical technique. It obviously involves their ki since it manipulates their matter to become intangible.

Goku does lose, he is outclassed by Kenshiro's stupendous skill advantage.

I'm done arguing with you, it's a stalemate they aren't hitting each other and if they do it's first to fist or kick to kick nothing is happening after, Kenshiro doesn't punch some dudes fist and it explode them same with kicks.

Moving without thinking will always be faster and more efficient then thinking before moving. Its literally impossible lol. Some please explain how Kenshinro can react before some who already reacted because they don't have to think but they do. If Ken can react faster then someone who doesn't have to think like then the Topic Creator would have to have given Ken faster stats because thats impossible and improbable.

He hasn't but Musou Tensei makes him intangible, so the match goes nothing happens besides punches and kicks not connecting or being generous connecting but nothing is happening.

How is he going to become intangible if hes getting tagged on autopilot. If your playing a sport, are you going to be faster by thinking about a play or by doing it before you think?? lol.

He doesn't think it's a state of being.

Who?