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#1 Posted by MasterSkywalker (3609 posts) - - Show Bio

Ultra Instinct Goku

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Kenshiro

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Rules:

  • Goku is in his Ultra Instinct Form.
  • Hand to Hand ONLY.
  • Equal stats for both of them.
  • Win by death or knockout.
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#3 Posted by SuperGoku17 (7220 posts) - - Show Bio

goku

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#4 Edited by Leon_Alexander (570 posts) - - Show Bio

They can't hit each other.

Stalemate, Musou Tensei makes Kenshiro intangible.

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#5 Posted by IndomitableRegal (15641 posts) - - Show Bio

I generally avoid equal stats now, so no thank you, but good luck.

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#6 Edited by Gaoron (8168 posts) - - Show Bio

Goku would be already dead

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#7 Posted by TheWatcherKing (18239 posts) - - Show Bio

Goku's already dead.

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#8 Posted by omriamar (7068 posts) - - Show Bio

lol ken stomp the shit out of him his a better fighter than goku can ever dream of becoming.

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#9 Posted by omriamar (7068 posts) - - Show Bio

@leon_alexander: you do know that ken can pint point ones pressure points in the entire body meaning even if goku block his shots his hands or feets will literally blow up leaving him helpless right??

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#10 Posted by Leon_Alexander (570 posts) - - Show Bio

@omriamar: I know all about both opponents here, Ultra instinct has Goku moving faster then Kenshiro by default because he's not thinking but Kenshiro has musou Tensei so they basically either clash blows or Goku keeps attacking while Kenshiro never gets hit, Kenshiro has never clashed punches with someone and they exploded from the result same with kicks.

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#11 Posted by camilopezo (1909 posts) - - Show Bio

Goku, better reflexes.

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#12 Posted by DeathHero61 (18675 posts) - - Show Bio
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#13 Posted by oceanmaster21 (15226 posts) - - Show Bio

interesting

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#14 Edited by omriamar (7068 posts) - - Show Bio

@leon_alexander: won’t matter how good his reflexes are as soon as their body touched one another goku will be under ken control, he doesn’t need musou Tensei but even if he does goku has no answer as in ken goes right through him and pretty much kill him on the spot

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#15 Posted by Thedarkpaladin (22886 posts) - - Show Bio
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#16 Posted by DeathHero61 (18675 posts) - - Show Bio

You could try to argue Goku's experience over Kenshiro's technical skill, but that wouldn't be enough, his knowledge of pressure points in relation to his specific martial art style would absolutely destroy Goku.

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#17 Posted by Marshall_Long (5648 posts) - - Show Bio

Omae wa mo shindeiru

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#18 Posted by TheDeathstar (4054 posts) - - Show Bio

Ultra Instinct can't be tagged by Kenshiro. Goku takes this.

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#19 Posted by guleddos (614 posts) - - Show Bio
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#20 Edited by SirFizzWhizz (37749 posts) - - Show Bio

@deathhero61: Ken has 260 plus chapters and over 150 episodes to his name. Not sure if he is in anyway lacking experience. I feel the characters Ken fight are more hax and skilled too, unlike the majority of talentless bricks Goku faces daily.

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#21 Posted by DeathHero61 (18675 posts) - - Show Bio

@deathhero61: Ken has 260 plus chapters and over 150 episodes to his name. Not sure if he is in anyway lacking experience. I feel the characters Ken fight are more hax and skilled too, unlike the majority of talentless bricks Goku faces daily.

And goku has almost 600 chapters(Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z) and 114 episodes to his name and others. Comparing the number of episodes and chapters isn't much. Goku himself has better experience I'd argue, due to fighting such a large variety of opponents. I'd argue Kenshiro's technical skill is a lot more viable than what Goku knows in hand to hand combat, due to his precise pressure point combat and makes him an unstoppable force.

I'm giving Kenshiro the win here, but I won't agree to him having better experience than Goku let alone more experience.

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#22 Posted by Zokologue3 (730 posts) - - Show Bio

No more equalized stats threads, please.

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#23 Posted by SirFizzWhizz (37749 posts) - - Show Bio

@sirfizzwhizz said:

@deathhero61: Ken has 260 plus chapters and over 150 episodes to his name. Not sure if he is in anyway lacking experience. I feel the characters Ken fight are more hax and skilled too, unlike the majority of talentless bricks Goku faces daily.

And goku has almost 600 chapters(Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z) and 114 episodes to his name and others. Comparing the number of episodes and chapters isn't much. Goku himself has better experience I'd argue, due to fighting such a large variety of opponents. I'd argue Kenshiro's technical skill is a lot more viable than what Goku knows in hand to hand combat, due to his precise pressure point combat and makes him an unstoppable force.

I'm giving Kenshiro the win here, but I won't agree to him having better experience than Goku let alone more experience.

How can you be more experience though when you fight the generic same skilless and same power foes day in and out. that is the definition of poor fighter training and stagnation. Kenshiro faces daily foes who are stated and shown to be martial artist, with hax unique abilities, weapons, and powers half the time. Many times Kenshiro faces foes with Martial Art styles and moves he never seen before.

I dont see why fighting skilless brutes like Goku does day in and out in DBS and DBZ (Dragon Ball was the only time martial arts matter actually) with same generic powers. Goku wins via power levels and never skill alone. I dont see a argument here.

Also.... we should add in the fact Kenshiro can copy any move he sees Taskmaster style. Another proof of skill over Goku in technicle skill level.

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#24 Posted by giantmansolos (154 posts) - - Show Bio

are saiyan pressure points in the same spots as human? cause that could be a problem

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#25 Edited by HigherPower (12175 posts) - - Show Bio

@gaoron said:

Goku would be already dead

Can't tell if you're serious or not...?

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#26 Posted by StrictlyAnime (2179 posts) - - Show Bio

@gaoron said:

Goku would be already dead

Can't tell if you're serious or not...?

Hes probably just memeing on you.

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#27 Posted by HigherPower (12175 posts) - - Show Bio

@strictlyanime: I tagged him for a different reason than what you're probably thinking. Lot's of other people said Goku would be dead.

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#28 Posted by Gaoron (8168 posts) - - Show Bio
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#29 Posted by DeathHero61 (18675 posts) - - Show Bio

@deathhero61 said:
@sirfizzwhizz said:

@deathhero61: Ken has 260 plus chapters and over 150 episodes to his name. Not sure if he is in anyway lacking experience. I feel the characters Ken fight are more hax and skilled too, unlike the majority of talentless bricks Goku faces daily.

And goku has almost 600 chapters(Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z) and 114 episodes to his name and others. Comparing the number of episodes and chapters isn't much. Goku himself has better experience I'd argue, due to fighting such a large variety of opponents. I'd argue Kenshiro's technical skill is a lot more viable than what Goku knows in hand to hand combat, due to his precise pressure point combat and makes him an unstoppable force.

I'm giving Kenshiro the win here, but I won't agree to him having better experience than Goku let alone more experience.

How can you be more experience though when you fight the generic same skilless and same power foes day in and out. that is the definition of poor fighter training and stagnation. Kenshiro faces daily foes who are stated and shown to be martial artist, with hax unique abilities, weapons, and powers half the time. Many times Kenshiro faces foes with Martial Art styles and moves he never seen before.

Let's see, world champion of three martial artist tournaments, has beaten the world's greatest assassin, navigated through an entire military base and took down an entire army, fought opponents from a alien warrior race that literally breeds and spends their entire lives fighting, beat martial artists from entirely other universes and has used skill to get around abilities most people wouldn't be capable of getting around through normal circumstances.(Hit's time skip for example)

I dont see why fighting skilless brutes like Goku does day in and out in DBS and DBZ (Dragon Ball was the only time martial arts matter actually) with same generic powers. Goku wins via power levels and never skill alone. I dont see a argument here.

Ok.

Also.... we should add in the fact Kenshiro can copy any move he sees Taskmaster style. Another proof of skill over Goku in technicle skill level.

I literally said Kenshiro is better in the form of technical skill. Goku is incredibly skilled, but its his experiences that make up most of that skill. Kenshiro's skill is more technical due to the martial art he uses, he uses a foreign martial art style that goes way beyond what Goku has experienced himself which is why I say Kenshiro has more technical skill. Goku's experience would allow him to fight virtually anyone except Kenshiro due to how versatile his skillset and martial art is. He would have no way to block or parry blows from Kenshiro considering he could one shot someone simply by elbowing them or kicking them, along with the Musou Tensei technique.

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#30 Posted by HigherPower (12175 posts) - - Show Bio

@gaoron said:

@god_vulcan: What do u mean?

You think Kenshiro beats UI Goku in equal stats and skill, yet you debated normal Goku--no UI-- beating Jin Mo-Ri in stats equalized skill threads, despite the fact Jin has better skill feats than either of them.

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#31 Posted by guleddos (614 posts) - - Show Bio

i actually i change my mind, how is kenshiro ganna tag someone who moves and dodge faster than thought.

Goku wins via speed.

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#32 Edited by SirFizzWhizz (37749 posts) - - Show Bio

@guleddos said:

i actually i change my mind, how is kenshiro ganna tag someone who moves and dodge faster than thought.

Goku wins via speed.

How is Goku tagging and dodging a character who is intangible? A character who can copy Goku's UI probably.

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#33 Posted by guleddos (614 posts) - - Show Bio

@guleddos said:

i actually i change my mind, how is kenshiro ganna tag someone who moves and dodge faster than thought.

Goku wins via speed.

How is Goku tagging and dodging a character who is intangible? A character who can copy Goku's UI probably.

Ul can't be copied its not a skill that can be achieved by copying someone and kenshiro is getting blitz.

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#34 Posted by Cable_Extreme (16783 posts) - - Show Bio

Goku loses sadly.

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#35 Posted by Cable_Extreme (16783 posts) - - Show Bio

@omriamar said:

@leon_alexander: won’t matter how good his reflexes are as soon as their body touched one another goku will be under ken control, he doesn’t need musou Tensei but even if he does goku has no answer as in ken goes right through him and pretty much kill him on the spot

The bio states hand to hand, so Ken isn't using any other abilities.

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#36 Posted by Cable_Extreme (16783 posts) - - Show Bio

@guleddos said:

i actually i change my mind, how is kenshiro ganna tag someone who moves and dodge faster than thought.

Goku wins via speed.

How is Goku tagging and dodging a character who is intangible? A character who can copy Goku's UI probably.

How is Intangibility allowed in a hand to hand match? The BIO literally states Hand to Hand only.

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#37 Posted by Godren (3652 posts) - - Show Bio

Can a scan or clip be posted of Kenshiro tagging someone with instantaneous reaction time and movement?

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#38 Posted by Cable_Extreme (16783 posts) - - Show Bio

@godren said:

Can a scan or clip be posted of Kenshiro tagging someone with instantaneous reaction time and movement?

A pointless question since stats are equalized.

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#39 Posted by Godren (3652 posts) - - Show Bio

@cable_extreme: It's not pointless at all since this is Ultra Instinct Goku.How the hell is Kenshiro going to tag him?

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#40 Posted by Trndo (986 posts) - - Show Bio

Goku adapts instantly then curbstomps via Ultra Instinct

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#41 Posted by Cable_Extreme (16783 posts) - - Show Bio

@godren said:

@cable_extreme: It's not pointless at all since this is Ultra Instinct Goku.How the hell is Kenshiro going to tag him?

How is it pointless? Ultra Instincts did well against Jiren, but don't pretend it is unbeatable. Especially by someone who outskills him by a significant margin and who's stats are equal to his own.

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#42 Posted by omriamar (7068 posts) - - Show Bio

@cable_extreme: he doesn’t need his chi long range shots or his MT, he is practically one of the best if not the best H2H fighter in fiction, his got many forms of H2H combat too his versatility is hax via toki water flow style, suother nanto style and many more completely different styles all goku does is just random kicks and punches lol this will end in less than a second

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#43 Posted by deactivated-5a2b0053414c5 (8165 posts) - - Show Bio
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#44 Edited by Cable_Extreme (16783 posts) - - Show Bio

@omriamar said:

@cable_extreme: he doesn’t need his chi long range shots or his MT, he is practically one of the best if not the best H2H fighter in fiction, his got many forms of H2H combat too his versatility is hax via toki water flow style, suother nanto style and many more completely different styles all goku does is just random kicks and punches lol this will end in less than a second

Goku in super is notably more skilled after his training with Whis, but I completely agree with Kenshiro being more skilled.

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#45 Posted by Godren (3652 posts) - - Show Bio

@cable_extreme: I'm not sure if your aware but Jiren didn't land a single blow on Goku because of you know instantaneous movement and reaction?So yeah it's borderline unbeatable in strictly h2h combat.Now please explain to me how Kenshiro overcomes that using strictly H2H techniques?

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#46 Posted by King_Krown (1202 posts) - - Show Bio

Kenshiro beats Goku senseless. He isn't taking any good martial artist type character with equal stats.

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#47 Posted by Gaoron (8168 posts) - - Show Bio

@gaoron said:

@god_vulcan: What do u mean?

You think Kenshiro beats UI Goku in equal stats and skill, yet you debated normal Goku--no UI-- beating Jin Mo-Ri in stats equalized skill threads, despite the fact Jin has better skill feats than either of them.

But you know who Kenshiro is right? His main fighting style is all about targetting pressure points and effecting body from the inside. With one touch he can force bodies to explode, he even threw a stand of hair and still effected body of his opponent. He has many other techniques aswell like state of nothingness which gives him intangibility.

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#48 Edited by Cable_Extreme (16783 posts) - - Show Bio

@godren said:

@cable_extreme: I'm not sure if your aware but Jiren didn't land a single blow on Goku because of you know instantaneous movement and reaction?So yeah it's borderline unbeatable in strictly h2h combat.Now please explain to me how Kenshiro overcomes that using strictly H2H techniques?

He managed to block plenty of blows.

Instant movement loses its advantage when speed is equalized.

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#49 Edited by Godren (3652 posts) - - Show Bio

@cable_extreme: Yes Jiren blocked his blows due to him being superior but he didn't land a single blow on Goku.Meanwhile Goku was getting stronger and faster by the second which is also what Ultra Instinct does.This is literally the worst matchup for someone against UI Goku simply because your not going to hit him because of his instantaneous reaction.

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#50 Posted by Cable_Extreme (16783 posts) - - Show Bio

@godren said:

@cable_extreme: Yes Jiren blocked his blows due to him being superior but he didn't land a single blow on Goku.Meanwhile Goku was getting stronger and faster by the second which is also what Ultra Instinct does.This is literally the worst matchup for someone against UI Goku simply because your not going to hit him because of his instantaneous reaction.

Stronger, or faster is irrelevant in a match where both fighters have the same speed and strength.