Ultimate Shonen PYP RD1: Defiant_Will vs GilgameshThePimp OPEN FOR VOTING

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defiant_will

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#1  Edited By defiant_will

Ultimate Shonen PYP

@defiant_will

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Characters:

20/20 (15+3 Council Point Bonus + 2 Character Points)

  • Grayroad (6)
  • Hawkins (6)
  • Law (6)
  • Melzargard (2)

Perks

  • Character Fusion (7)
  • 1 Hour of Prep (1)
  • 2 Character Points (5)

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

VS

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________

@gilgameshthepimptoendallpimps

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Characters:

  1. Vanessa (1)
  2. Charmy (1)
  3. Freed (4)
  4. Ajeel (9)

Perks:

  1. 1 Hour of Prep (1)
  2. Choose the Battlefield (3)
  3. No Friendly Fire (5)
  4. Mind & Soul Immunity (6)

Match Theme:

Rules

  • 15 points for Characters
  • 15 points for Perks
  • Win by Death, KO, Incapacitation
  • No Battlefield Removal
  • No Reality Warping
  • No Speed Stealing
  • Summons Are Limited to 5 At a Time (can't be over an 8 in power level)
  • Cloning Limited to 5 At a Time
  • Time Jumping, Aging, & Remnants are allowed. Other forms of time manipulation are banned.
  • Anime/Manga Feats Are Allowed
  • Webcomic Feats Allowed for OPM
  • No Movie Scaling for MHA (Unless you are using a movie only character like Nine)
  • Default Character and Standard Morals
  • Teamwork is not a factor, but Perfect teamwork is necessary for strategies incorporating that.
  • Fight Takes Place on Tenrou Island, 100 Feet Apart
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defiant_will

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GilgameshThePimpToEndAllPimps

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Opener: Magic for All Boys & Girls

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Introductions:

Ok, so I'll admit that my team is anything but standard and I don't really know enough about my opponent's team to make any truly bold claims, but I'm feeling decently confident in this team's chances of victory, so let's cut the formalities and get right into it.

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Men's Division I. Freed Justine:

Let's start with Freed, the jack of all trades in my group. His versatile kit means that he can function well in both offensive & defensive support, and can fit just about any situation.

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Fairy Tail Chapter 117

Freed's magic, Dark Eceture, allows freed to make anything he writes down become reality. His main offensive way of using this is similar to what he did to Elfman, where he was able to directly activate Elfman's pain receptors for defence ignoring damage. This kind of damage is quite devastating if you don't have the right resistance for it.

However Freed's main role is for prep, so I'll keep his segment short for now.

Men's Division II. Ajeel:

Next up, let's go over Ajeel. He has a simple but effective role of being the muscle of this joint, and his high DPS combined with his unique toolkit will make him quite the fearsome opponent.

Fairy Tail Chapter 447
Fairy Tail Chapter 447

His main gimmick centres around sand, though it's a bit different from your Gaara's, Toph's or other sand-benders, due to the nature of his powers making it so that Ajeel's sand vaporizing the very moisture (or water) right out of people's bodies, as he himself has stated on multiple different occasions. These are pretty standard quotes, but nonetheless dangerous, as you need to prove that your team can survive the moisture succed right out of them, otherwise get ready to get incapacitated real quick.

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Fairy Tail Chapter 458

One of Ajeel's most dangerous techniques is Sand World, which shows Ajeel not only effectively merging with sand, making him intangible, but more importantly for this discussion, shows Ajeel's true offensive capability. As he was capable of engulfing the entirety of Magnolia in a giant sandstorm, which given its size should be Island sized (we can even see in these panels that this sandstorm stretches far beyond a couple of mountains). This should show just how powerful this sand magic really is, and something I doubt you'll be escaping its grasp.

Women's Division. Vanessa & Charmy:

Now whilst I talked about Freed & Ajeel separately, I'll be combining The Black Bulls' original gals together, as whilst on there own they aren't anything too special, (especially in stats, where they are top tier booty) put them together & you get a pair of absolute monsters that I struggle to see you get past, forming the backbone of my defensive core.

Black Clover Chapter 100
Black Clover Chapter 100

Vanessa's main shtick is a bit confusing if not explained/showcased probably, but if I had to put it simply, she's a destiny manipulator. Think of her as having Yhwach's Almighty, able to change the avoid unfavourable "timelines" in order to keep her opponents safe, so long as Vanessa's red, string cat thing touches them.

Black Clover Chapter 100

In practice, this power is showcased quite well in chapter 100, as every time Asta supposedly slice & stabbed his fellow comrades (don't ask why, long story), every time the attack effectively gets "lol, noped" and makes it so that the attack missed, even though we can see Asta slicing and dicing. Hell, it isn't even restricted to physical attacks, as even indirect/long-range attacks like blood manipulation still work equally effectively.

I guess another way putting it is that imagine Vanessa's playing an online shooter game with really bad ping, which makes it so that every hit that should've landed doesn't. But regardless of my wack-ass analogies, a powerset like this basically makes my team untouchable to any form of traditional damage, so you need to have a power that inherently can't be noped by the will of destiny.

Black Clover Chapter 184
Black Clover Chapter 184

And as for Charmy, her main shtick is cooking magic, which in the context of this fight means that so long as Vanessa keeps comping down on her food, she essentially has an infinite source of mana to supply her destiny manipulation. This is relevant as now Vanessa's one weakness, her limited mana supply, is now a complete non-factor, making it so you can't just wait out until her mana runs out.

So this means that in order to so much as even think about touching any of my team members, you have to find a way to somehow bypass an infinitely active destiny shifter, else be caught up in its never-ending waves. Huh, that's surprisingly appropriate for a shonen tourney, huh?

Magic Worlds Collide; Prep:

Funnily enough, everyone in my team has a role to play during prep time, so let's no waste any time and hop right to it.

I. Gril Power:

Let's get the easy part out of the way first. Vanessa will allow her magic cat to touch all of my teams' shoulders in order to make sure the destiny manipulation works properly, whilst Charmy will her cooking magic up & running for the rest of the fight. Nice & simple.

II. Sandy Lands:

Next up comes Ajeel, who has a good number of things he can do. Of course, the main thing he needs to do is activate Sand World, but there are some other things which'll make my life a bit easier.

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Fairy Tail Chapter 446

Aside from Sand World, Ajeel can take the time to create 5 sand golems as some quick and easy summons. Admittedly these things don't exactly have anything special in terms of feats, but if nothing else they can serve as nice distractions, and they were able to keep pace with a car that was powered by Erza's magic, so they should be decently strong.

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Fairy Tail Chapter 446

Another thing Ajeel can do is set up a pool of quicksand around the area the fighting will take place, which'll put you knee-deep in the water-absorbing sand right from the word go. Assuming of course that Sand World doesn't do that already but the restricted movement tough enough to keep Natsu down will certainly be a nuisance.

III. Writing's on The Wall:

Finally, let's go over Freed, as he has the most to do in prep, so let's jump right into it.

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Fairy Tail Chapter 117

First off, Freed can give all of my members the power of flight by giving them wings. Pretty self-explanatory but flight is always nice to have for obvious reasons.

Fairy Tail Chapter 118
Fairy Tail Chapter 118

Another thing Freed can do is amp all of my team's stats with Darkness, transforming all of them into super-powered forms which let Freed himself go blow-for-blow with Mira, who without this amp was blitzing him down like nobody's business. Again, simple but effective.

One of Freed's runes during the Battle of Fairy Tail prevented Cana and Juvia from exiting until one of them had been rendered unable to fight. Freed even claims that you can't escape the enchantment by trying to fly up and out of it:

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Fairy Tail Chapter 116

But of course, the main thing Freed will do was his trademark barriers. With this ability, Freed is capable of creating giant barriers which block opponents out unless they can fulfil remarkably specific requirements, and these barriers can get pretty damn large. Naturally, within the confines of this match, Freed will create a giant barrier around the area we will be fighting (note that he doesn't need to cover the whole of Tenrou, just the general 100 feet area will be more than enough) and make the rules super wack like "The barrier can only be broken if those who I consider my enemies are knocked unconscious" or something to that effect. Pretty self-explanatory this will be, but nonetheless something you need to find a way out of.

Initial Thoughts & What You Need to Prove:

Now throughout this opener, you'll have noticed my lack of physical feats that I posted, as whilst Ajeel certainly has the speed & strength to spare, given the nature of my strategy I don't think I'll need them for now. Though of course, I can post them later when needed, for now, this post was mainly just to showcase my general strategy & save the finer details for later. For now, I hope you have strong resistances to this kinda hax, else this won't take long.

  1. Can You Bypass Vanessa's Destiny Manipulation?
  2. Can You Somehow Bypass Dark Eceture?
  3. Can You survive being stuck in Sand World or having your pain receptors directly activated?
  4. Do You Have the means to bypass Ajeel's intangibility?
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GilgameshThePimpToEndAllPimps

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defiant_will

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Relevant Perks:

  • Character Fusion (7)
  • 1 Hour of Prep (1)

〚Thou Shalt Not Kill〛

The Great Day of His Wrath
The Great Day of His Wrath

The Sixth Commandment in the Holy Text forbids the murder of another, lest he be subject to God's wrath. I quote Christian doctrine today to illustrate that there is strength in restraint. That sometimes, it is better to leave things to a higher power. Your team of sorcerers and mages represents the childish and naive aspiration to become God. Toying with fate, playing with the reality He constructed. So, here you will feel God's divine vengeance. Prophetic Disaster, cleansing of this mortal realm. Today, you face Calamity.

The Symphony of Armageddon

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The Avatar of The 5 Holy Wounds - Melzargard

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Before you lies the foundation for your cleansing. Melzargard's relevance to Calamity is limited to his physiology, but it is in no way superficial. Melzargard possesses a unique regenerative and duplication ability that will serve this fusion well. As a reminder, cloning is limited to 5. Luckily for Melzargard, he can split himself into 5 different bodies:

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As can be observed, each body possess its own, independent consciousness. For example, when Melzargard split off into a flying head, his death at the hands of Metal Bat did not at all affect the other body. This is something that will come into play later. The last thing to address is the regenerative capabilities of Melzargard, potent enough to make any physical attacks moot:

To list off every single regen feat would be redundant. By now, it should be well established that a physical assault is useless. The only way to kill Melzargard is to destroy the orb inside of it. However, Melzargard is capable of moving the orb within his body, to the point that even an Atomic Slash doesn't hit it. The Atomic Slash is a massively hypersonic attack, so shifting the orb's positioning in accordance with the dozens of MHS slashes is a feat that can not be overstated. Fortunately, your team is not solely reliant on physicals. In fact, you seem to rely most on magic abilities. However, I do not think Ajeel's magic will be the most effective here. Sucking the moisture out of a human is borderline lethal. That is due to how reliant our bodily functions are on water. However, can you really say that Melzargard would be affected in the same way? He does not possess the cells, organs, and tissues that use water to maintain the life process. Rather, Melzargard only possess five orbs that serve as his "hearts," which is not at all contingent on water intake/output. To put things into perspective, these kind of attacks aren't foreign in OPM. For example, Genos vaporized all of the moisture on Deep Sea King, who literally lives underwater. The result was hardly life threatening, and was only reverted back to his shriveled form:

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Now, to clarify, I am not trying to scale Melzargard to Deep Sea King in any way, shape or form. However, Deep Sea King comes from a race of people who literally live underwater and rely on the water for sustenance. If he is not really affected by a moisture vaporizing attack, I see little reason why Melzargard, who doesn't rely on water anywhere near as much (if at all), would be killed by such an attack. I mean think about it logically. Is Melzargard really more susceptible to moisture vaporizing than someone who literally lives off of water? Let that sink in.

The Shepherd of Scapegoats - Basil Hawkins

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Next comes Basil Hawkins. Basil Hawkin's role on this fusion comes from his abilities, specifically his Devil Fruit powers. There is no need to go over everything, just the relevant aspects. Haven eaten the Wara Wara No Mi, Hawkins has the ability to infuse himself with the spirits of whoever he chooses, taking the form of strawmen. As such, attacks aimed for him will actually hit said strawmen, one strawman at the time. The strawman is destroyed when the person attached to it dies, meaning that Hawkins essentially gets extra lives:

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This attack was used against Zoro's ranged attack, but it isn't limited to just physical attacks. For example, it defends against the attacks of Law's Ope Ope No Mi. The Ope Ope No Mi does not damage its target, but rather spacially bisects them. As such, this tells us three additional pieces of information:

  1. An attack does not have to be injurious for Hawkins' Devil Fruit to take affect
  2. Hax attacks are also affected by Hawkin's Devil Fruit
  3. In the Event that an AoE Attack is Used, it Still Won't Affect Hawkins until the Strawmen are Destroyed

Prep Phase

Well, with Hawkins and Melzargard established, I will talk about prep. The hour of prep will basically be Calamity breaking off into 5 different bodies, each with their own, individual "life." As such, the main Calamity body will use the Wara Wara No Mi to infuse the strawmen with the lives, or spirits, of its duplicate bodies. This means that in order to hurt the main Calamity, you have to kill the other Calamity bodies, one by one. A slash attack gets transferred over to one of the Calamity clones, for example. And remember that in order to destroy the Strawman, you have to kill its attached body. In other words, one of the Calamity duplicates has to die before the next Calamity duplicate is used for attack transference. And this has to happen 5 times before you can even think of getting to the main body, which is even harder due to Melzaghard's regeneration. But, let's say you succeed in killing off one of the Calamity's:

The Dark Side of Pacifism - Grayroad

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-you die

To put it simply, Grayroad's Commandment from the Demon King is pacifism. Meaning that if one is to kill in his presence, their remaining years or stolen from them and they die on the spot:

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So, if you kill one of the Calamity duplicates, you die. The only way for you to kill me is to kill the duplicates first, and even killing one will quite literally cost you your life. To speed up this process, Grayroad has his "Breakable Bugs." If you kill one of these bugs, you lose your life:

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For someone with island level AoE (Ajeel) to not kill some bugs is a lot to ask. Now, Grayroad is not exempt from his Commandment. While Grayroad's Commandment can kill you, Grayroad himself can not kill you. So, on top of abusing the Commandment offensively, Calamity has one last trump card...

God's Domain - Trafalgar D. Law

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Law is the wielder of the Ope Ope No Mi. Within Law's Room, his opponents are at his complete mercy:

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Law is perfect here because his attacks don't kill or even inflict damage. Law wins through incap. This is beneficial given that within Law's Room, he can spatially bisect anyone, splitting them apart without inflicting any damage. These attacks have multi mountain sized range:

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In addition, Law can use Shambles, which allows him to swap the minds of his targets. This was effective on 4 Straw Hats, switching their minds around (your team has 4 people, remember that):

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That throws your gameplan off from jump. Switching minds means that each member of your team will find themselves in a different body that they don't know how to use. This is bound to disorient them and leave them victim to the bait of the Breakable Bugs or just an AoE spatial slice. Naturally, during prep, my Room will be activated so, come battle time, these attacks can be used right off the bat.

Divine Retribution - The Battle

Gilgamesh, your strat falls apart compared to mine:

Freed's magic, Dark Eceture, allows freed to make anything he writes down become reality. His main offensive way of using this is similar to what he did to Elfman, where he was able to directly activate Elfman's pain receptors for defence ignoring damage. This kind of damage is quite devastating if you don't have the right resistance for it.

This attack is useless. The Magic will affect the duplicate. If it doesn't have the ability to kill, you can't do anything to the main Calamity. If it does have the ability to kill, then you kill the Duplicate and you die as well. Mind you that these Duplicates aren't going to be fighting, just Calamity's main form. So you will be forced to deal with the prime Calamity while your attacks are only affecting the duplicates.

One of Ajeel's most dangerous techniques is Sand World, which shows Ajeel not only effectively merging with sand, making him intangible, but more importantly for this discussion, shows Ajeel's true offensive capability. As he was capable of engulfing the entirety of Magnolia in a giant sandstorm, which given its size should be Island sized (we can even see in these panels that this sandstorm stretches far beyond a couple of mountains). This should show just how powerful this sand magic really is, and something I doubt you'll be escaping its grasp.

A giant sandstorm is going to kill the breakable bugs and make Ajeel forfeit his life. Intangibility doesn't grant you any resistance to the metaphysical nature of Grayroad's Commandment, as you know. Heck, intangibility is borderline irrelevant to me since Calamity isn't a CQC fighter.

Another thing Ajeel can do is set up a pool of quicksand around the area the fighting will take place, which'll put you knee-deep in the water-absorbing sand right from the word go. Assuming of course that Sand World doesn't do that already but the restricted movement tough enough to keep Natsu down will certainly be a nuisance.

Unfortunately for you, Calamity and his duplicates can fly.

I guess another way putting it is that imagine Vanessa's playing an online shooter game with really bad ping, which makes it so that every hit that should've landed doesn't. But regardless of my wack-ass analogies, a powerset like this basically makes my team untouchable to any form of traditional damage, so you need to have a power that inherently can't be noped by the will of destiny.

You said it works on any traditional damage, but what about "Room?" Would this protect everyone from being spacially bisected? Or what about having their personalities swapped? Or the Pacifist Commandment? I would call that into question given that this fate manipulation is clearly not unassailable, failing to protect Vanessa and her friends from a surprise attack. Moreover, one must share a familial bond to Vanessa for this to take affect. You could chalk this up to metaphor, but is a sentiment consistently established. Ajeel and Freed don't fall under this category.

And as for Charmy, her main shtick is cooking magic, which in the context of this fight means that so long as Vanessa keeps comping down on her food, she essentially has an infinite source of mana to supply her destiny manipulation. This is relevant as now Vanessa's one weakness, her limited mana supply, is now a complete non-factor, making it so you can't just wait out until her mana runs out.

This is my biggest problem. You are proposing that Vanessa has the luxury being fed during a battle? Unforthunately, Law's Room can teleport that food away via Scan:

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Without a food source, Vanessa's Mana will quickly run out.

Initial Thoughts

  1. The Calamity Duplicates are hard to kill, and if you kill even one of them, you die
  2. All attacks and hax are transferred over to those duplicates, meaning you can't harm the main Calamity until you eliminate them
  3. Breakable Bugs means that if you kill even a single bug (extremely likely given island wide AoE), you die
  4. Spacial bisection or switching your personalities are both viable strategies with Law
  5. Vanessa is the only real threat and even she has a limited Mana supply and her powers aren't as overpowered as you think
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GilgameshThePimpToEndAllPimps

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Counter Post: Fairy & Spriggan on a 3-Leaf Clover

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To list off every single regen feat would be redundant. By now, it should be well established that a physical assault is useless.

Irrelevant in the grand scheme of things, given that neither of my main attackers uses forms of offence that makes the healing factor you have relevant in the grand scheme of things.

In fact, you seem to rely most on magic abilities. However, I do not think Ajeel's magic will be the most effective here. Sucking the moisture out of a human is borderline lethal. That is due to how reliant our bodily functions are on water. However, can you really say that Melzargard would be affected in the same way? He does not possess the cells, organs, and tissues that use water to maintain the life process. Rather, Melzargard only possess five orbs that serve as his "hearts," which is not at all contingent on water intake/output.

When was this confirmed? Him having the orb wouldn't change if his body required water and the likes, since as Silver Fang puts it, it still functions as a traditional heart, just with some added utility. You need to prove definitively that Mel wouldn't have water in his body, or at least some moisture equivalent unless you want to argue "Murata would've drawn the water" or something like that, which is about as wacky as it sounds.

And even if he didn't, you have human characters like Law in your fusion, who most certainly have water in his body, so Ajeel has moisture to succ on.

To put things into perspective, these kind of attacks aren't foreign in OPM. For example, Genos vaporized all of the moisture on Deep Sea King, who literally lives underwater. The result was hardly life threatening, and was only reverted back to his shriveled form: Now, to clarify, I am not trying to scale Melzargard to Deep Sea King in any way, shape or form. However, Deep Sea King comes from a race of people who literally live underwater and rely on the water for sustenance. If he is not really affected by a moisture vaporizing attack, I see little reason why Melzargard, who doesn't rely on water anywhere near as much (if at all), would be killed by such an attack. I mean think about it logically. Is Melzargard really more susceptible to moisture vaporizing than someone who literally lives off of water? Let that sink in.

The key difference between Ajeel & Genos is simple. Unless Genos' lasers do internal damage and my memory of OPM is as hazy as hail, all Genos did was essentially put DSK into the world's hottest, fastest working drying machine. Like you know when you go to a water/theme park with water attractions & around the area you can pay for small dryer things which get rid of most of the water on ya body? That's essentially what Genos did to DSK, albeit on a grander scale.

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Ajeel on the other hand pretty clearly succs water out of the body internally, since it wouldn't make sense for Erza to be "tried to a husk" if he could only succ the sweat & the like that leaks out externally. What Genos did against DSK simply isn't comparable, even ignoring the Omegalul levels of difference in power between these 2.

Haxx attacks are also affected by Hawkin's Devil Fruit

We talked about the difference between Genos & Ajeel, but Law is even further away from what The God of Sand does. Saying Ajeel's attacks won't work because of Law doesn't really work because you simply can't compare the two. One separates body via space manipulation parts, the other succs you dry of water with sand, you can't name a single thing they have in common beyond being "hax", which is too vague to justify it.

the Event that an AoE Attack is Used, it Still Won't Affect Hawkins until the Strawmen are Destroyed

Honestly, is that even an AoE attack? To me at least, it just seems like Law did a simple sword swing that happened to slice through all of them, but 1 at a time (like he cuts one dude, then the next whilst being done in the same motion, if that makes sense). As far as I'm aware of Law isn't the type of character to produce shockwaves with attacks either, so as far as I'm concerned it just seems like a regular sword swing unless you can prove otherwise.

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And I know it's not canon (although with anime feats being allowed in this tourney, it should be at least partially fair game), but even the anime backs me up on this. That's not an AoE attack, that's just a regular swing. that slice through dudes with no added baggage, so this should paint a pretty clear picture of where I'm getting at. However, I should stress that the anime isn't my only reasoning for thinking this, just using it mainly as a point of reference to what the manga seems to be trying to show.

This means that in order to hurt the main Calamity, you have to kill the other Calamity bodies, one by one. A slash attack gets transferred over to one of the Calamity clones, for example. And remember that in order to destroy the Strawman, you have to kill its attached body. In other words, one of the Calamity duplicates has to die before the next Calamity duplicate is used for attack transference. And this has to happen 5 times before you can even think of getting to the main body, which is even harder due to Melzaghard's regeneration. But, let's say you succeed in killing off one of the Calamity's:

Or I can just attack them all at once, which from what you've shown isn't something it can compensate for, all whilst using attacks that would ignore healing factors.

To put it simply, Grayroad's Commandment from the Demon King is pacifism. Meaning that if one is to kill in his presence, their remaining years or stolen from them and they die on the spot: So, if you kill one of the Calamity duplicates, you die. The only way for you to kill me is to kill the duplicates first, and even killing one will quite literally cost you your life. To speed up this process, Grayroad has his "Breakable Bugs." If you kill one of these bugs, you lose your life:

Whilst this seems deadly, it won't really matter in the grand scheme of things. For one thing, the only one who will be doing the killing is Ajeel, so all he needs to do is take them all out at the same time (something he's more than capable of doing), and the rest if history. Furthermore, as far as I can tell, Grayroad's curse has only really shown to be able to be effective against more "traditional" attacks like punches or laser beams, and still leaves room for more unconventional types of offence, which Ajeel's magic could certainly fulfil should you not have the feats to back this up.

Another & arguably more important thing to consider is that throughout this post, it seems you've completely ignored Freed's barriers, which can frankly be the perfect tool for dealing with this. With it, he can easily make the barrier follow the rules of "the barrier will not go away until only 1 person is left standing" and make it so that you have to fight amongst yaself. Not as if it'd be OOC for him given what he did to Juvia & Cana, as shown in my opener.

Nanatsu no Taizai Chapter 148
Nanatsu no Taizai Chapter 148

And it's not as if Grayroad is immune to his own curse or anything, as over Commandments (namely Galand) have admitted to having to follow their own curses, so it wouldn't make much sense if Grayroad wasn't under the same rules that Galand is. With this in mind, You're not escaping your own curse whilst stuck in Freed's barrier, so best hope you have a way out.

Fairy Tail Chapter 111
Fairy Tail Chapter 111

Though honestly, that'd be Freed doing things the hard way, as all he needs to write down is to make it so that the barrier will make it so that whoever is in it (i.e. your team) will suffocate until they pass out as he did here, a move that completely invalidates Grayroad's powers, and your main win-con along with it. This also means you have 2 forms of hax to get around, and even if Ajeel accidentally kills your guy, Freed and the others are still kicking, so that's still a W for me.

Fairy Tail Chapter 235
Fairy Tail Chapter 235

Something I forgot to mention in my opener about Freed I forgot to mention earlier is that since I picked the battlefield of Tenrou Island, Freed's runes will be amped much higher than usual thanks to the increase in magical power.

Fairy Tail Chapter 108
Fairy Tail Chapter 108

Oh, and don't even think about trying to break out of the barrier, given that Makarov, a high tier of the FT verse states that even he can't break through it, and this was Freed without being on Tenrou. Though of course, that assumes you can get past Vanessa's destiny manipulation first.

Law is perfect here because his attacks don't kill or even inflict damage. Law wins through incap. This is beneficial given that within Law's Room, he can spatially bisect anyone, splitting them apart without inflicting any damage. These attacks have multi mountain sized range:

Neat, but it gets kekw'd by Vanessa's magic.

In addition, Law can use Shambles, which allows him to swap the minds of his targets. This was effective on 4 Straw Hats, switching their minds around (your team has 4 people, remember that): That throws your gameplan off from jump. Switching minds means that each member of your team will find themselves in a different body that they don't know how to use. This is bound to disorient them and leave them victim to the bait of the Breakable Bugs or just an AoE spatial slice.

Wouldn't it come under the Mind & Soul Immunity perk I have? I didn't mention it earlier cause I didn't know I'd need it & it's super easy to understand, but swapping minds around would 100% fall under mind tampering/TP, so I should be immune to this.

inb4 you use host powers to say it's different to steal a win

This attack is useless. The Magic will affect the duplicate. If it doesn't have the ability to kill, you can't do anything to the main Calamity. If it does have the ability to kill, then you kill the Duplicate and you die as well. Mind you that these Duplicates aren't going to be fighting, just Calamity's main form. So you will be forced to deal with the prime Calamity while your attacks are only affecting the duplicates.

I mean no matter if Ajeel's Sand World succs them dry or Freed knocks them out unconscious all at once, either way, works fine by me. Both methods seem to work fine for me.

A giant sandstorm is going to kill the breakable bugs and make Ajeel forfeit his life. Intangibility doesn't grant you any resistance to the metaphysical nature of Grayroad's Commandment, as you know. Heck, intangibility is borderline irrelevant to me since Calamity isn't a CQC fighter.

The intangibility thing is fine by me, but the bugs & your main calamity would die at the same time, so that's still the victory for me. And even you do survive, you still got an amped Freed & Vanessa to deal with, only Ajeel would fall.

Unfortunately for you, Calamity and his duplicates can fly.

Coolio. Quicksand wasn't really a win-con anyway so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. You can have a small victory.

You said it works on any traditional damage, but what about "Room?" Would this protect everyone from being spacially bisected? Or what about having their personalities swapped? Or the Pacifist Commandment?

I mean if it works on blood manipulation (something that's hardly "traditional"), there's nothing saying it wouldn't work on any of those unless any of your characters have feats of beating through destiny manipulation.

Black Clover chapter 197
Black Clover chapter 197

Hell, this destiny magic worked on Black Asta in the scans I showed, someone who leaks out anti-magic (the stuff that makes Asta's magic negation work) like a workoutaholic's rank stench in the summer heat. If it worked on someone who actively negates magic, then Law shouldn't be any problem given one is obviously more designed to nullify Vanessa's magic than the other.

I would call that into question given that this fate manipulation is clearly not unassailable, failing to protect Vanessa and her friends from a surprise attack.

You mean the same opponent Vanessa's magic worked on 2 pages later? Not the best anti-feat in the world and frankly Vanessa's powers worked like a charm.

Black Clover Chapter 161

Even still, Vanessa's magic is a passive effect, even against opponents who are explicitly FTE to both her & her physically superior comrades, so it's not as if being unable to see what happens to change much.

Moreover, one must share a familial bond to Vanessa for this to take affect. You could chalk this up to metaphor, but is a sentiment consistently established. Ajeel and Freed don't fall under this category.

I mean in the first scan you posted Vanessa states she & her mother have no bond, yet her Destiny shifting still affected her all the same, but family-esque bonds aren't required.

No Caption Provided

I posted this panel earlier, but you only have to be a comrade that fight for the same cause for the magic cat to do his thing, so long as you stay close by. For a bit of context, this little lass, named Sally, once was a member of The Eye of The Midnight Sun, a group of antagonists to Vanessa, and was only able teamed up with Asta due to it being a classic case of "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" (again, it's a long story, don't ask about the full details). Hardly what you'd call a family member, and yet with a simple tap, destiny bends to Vanessa's will.

So as long as Freed & Ajeel stay close to Vanessa, which won't be hard given Ajeel's omnipresent nature and Freed not needing to go in head first thanks to the barrier, means that by all rights the manipulation should work fine.

This is my biggest problem. You are proposing that Vanessa has the luxury being fed during a battle? Unforthunately, Law's Room can teleport that food away via Scan:

Shame about the whole destiny manipulating it so that Scan never happens thing. And for what it's worth, Vanessa has enough magic to last the fight, Charmy's mostly here to keep it consistent.

What You Need to Prove V2:

  1. Can you prove that your hax can bypass Destiny manipulation when it has already affected people who passively negate magic and has worked on "hax" before?
  2. Can you get past Freed's barrier suffocated you unconscious or Ajeel succing you dry?
  3. Do Hawkins strawmen counteract AoE attacks?
  4. Can Grayroad kill any of my characters beyond Ajeel?
  5. Do you have a gameplan that can cement a victory for you?

One last note, special credit goes to users Deathhero61 & Hittheassasin for helping me find NNT scans.

No Caption Provided

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Rebuttal // The Cleansing

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========================================================================

"And everyone who hears these words of mine and does not do them will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand."

~Matthew 7:26

I stand by my initial assertions in regards to Ajeel's sand. Vaporizing moisture is an attack that would be lethal to any human. But Melzargard couldn't be further from that descriptor. He possess none of the water-reliant cells, organs, and tissues that makes up the human anatomy. As such, I take issue with assuming that he still be just as susceptible to Ajeel's magic:

When was this confirmed? Him having the orb wouldn't change if his body required water and the likes, since as Silver Fang puts it, it still functions as a traditional heart, just with some added utility. You need to prove definitively that Mel wouldn't have water in his body, or at least some moisture equivalent unless you want to argue "Murata would've drawn the water" or something like that, which is about as wacky as it sounds.

You are overblowing Silver Fang's statement. He only called the orbs a "heart," in the sense that they are his weakpoints and can be used to kill Melzargard. He did not draw any equivalency to Melzargard's orbs and the human heart in terms of functionality, like you are trying to imply. Additionally, I never argued that Melzargard didn't have any moisture. He is on Earth, there is literally moisture in the air. Rather, I am questioning if vaporizing said moisture would really be effective.

And even if he didn't, you have human characters like Law in your fusion, who most certainly have water in his body, so Ajeel has moisture to succ on.

Again, I am not asserting that there is no moisture for Ajeel to vaporize. I am just challenging the notion that doing so would put Melzargard down.

Let's think about this rationally. Melzargard comes from outer space, and has traversed the universe with Boros for decades. In space alone, water rapidly vaporizes or boils away due to the lack of air pressure. Melzargard's interstellar travel would already make him well accustomed to low moisture environments. And that's without getting into the varying climates on planets in our own solar system alone. So, it is hard for me to accept that Melzargard would be oneshotted by vaporizing all of the moisture in his body. Especially since characters like Deep Sea King, who literally lives in the water, have shrugged off attacks like this:

Ajeel on the other hand pretty clearly succs water out of the body internally, since it wouldn't make sense for Erza to be "tried to a husk" if he could only succ the sweat & the like that leaks out externally. What Genos did against DSK simply isn't comparable, even ignoring the Omegalul levels of difference in power between these 2.

Genos did that same thing. Through the heat of his attack, he reverted Deep Sea King back to his shriveled form. I don't see how Genos' mountain top vaporizing heat only affects Deep Sea King at the skin level. You can't make someone return to their "shriveled" state by just affecting their skin. That doesn't make sense to me. Sea King is like a sponge, where he absorbs water and becomes more powerful. To reverse that process, you can't just vaporize the moisture on his skin. Genos would have had to do the same thing Ajeel did, vaporizing the moisture in his body. And yet, Deep Sea King was fine. Someone solely reliant on water for sustenance can fight just fine despite having his moisture vaped by Genos. And, as I said, it is ludicrous to think Melzargard would be more susceptible to water vaping attacks then someone who gets stronger with water exposure.

I think it is even more telling that, from the fights I've read of Ajeel, he has never once done what you are describing. His "moisture vaporizing" sand didn't do anything of note to the people of Magnolia despite covering the entire landscape in sand. Even when fighting Erza, it took several chapters of spamming sand attacks for him to finally start "shriveling" Erza up, and even that didn't get the job done in the end. This very magic proved pretty much ineffective against the very people it is tailored to kill. So, why on God's green Earth, do you think that this attack is going to one shot Melzargard? A being who does not rely on water at all and can only be killed by destroying his 5 orbs.

Look, at the end of the day, you have your work cut out for you here. Because anyone would be hardpressed to justify water vaporizing working on an extraterrestrial character with a far different anatomy than humans. Even more so when that same attack failed to kill any one of those same humans, despite engulfing Magnolia. I suggest you try and find another avenue to cement a win condition.

"Do you not know that you are God's temple and that God's Spirit dwells in you? If anyone destroys God's temple, God will destroy him. For God's temple is holy, and you are that temple."

~ 1 Corinthians 3:16-17

I will address Hawkins' and Grayroad's hax at the same time:

We talked about the difference between Genos & Ajeel, but Law is even further away from what The God of Sand does. Saying Ajeel's attacks won't work because of Law doesn't really work because you simply can't compare the two. One separates body via space manipulation parts, the other succs you dry of water with sand, you can't name a single thing they have in common beyond being "hax", which is too vague to justify it.

What does this even mean? Gil, I never contested this. Obviously spacial manipulation is different from sand manipulation. But why is that relevant? Hawkin's Devil Fruit transfers attack damage and affects to his Strawmen. It is not a specific counter to Law's ability. If you are arguing that Ajeel's sand can bypass the affects of Hawkin's Devil Fruit, you need to show why. Has this sand bypassed hax before? I know the answer to this, but I want to see if your response is honest.

I mean by your logic, any attack that isn't spacial manipulation would bypass Hawkins' Devil Fruit. A fire attack, a lightning strike. But Hawkin's ability isn't spacial manip resistance, it is fundamentally damage transference. So your job is to show why Ajeel's sand is the exception.

Honestly, is that even an AoE attack? To me at least, it just seems like Law did a simple sword swing that happened to slice through all of them, but 1 at a time (like he cuts one dude, then the next whilst being done in the same motion, if that makes sense). As far as I'm aware of Law isn't the type of character to produce shockwaves with attacks either, so as far as I'm concerned it just seems like a regular sword swing unless you can prove otherwise.

It is an AoE attack. Law famously uses AoE attacks all the time, this being one of them. He attempts to bisect Hawkins and his henchmen in the Room, and he doesn't affect Hawkins. And no, Gil. Using the anime version of this scene that includes things never shown in the manga isn't viable evidence. Like, how does this show Law slicing them one by one? The person on the far left isn't anywhere near Law's sword. This is clearly an AoE attack, akin to what he did against Vergo. But Hawkins was unaffected.

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Or I can just attack them all at once, which from what you've shown isn't something it can compensate for, all whilst using attacks that would ignore healing factors.

You can attack them but I will be attacking you, so bad idea.

Whilst this seems deadly, it won't really matter in the grand scheme of things. For one thing, the only one who will be doing the killing is Ajeel, so all he needs to do is take them all out at the same time (something he's more than capable of doing), and the rest if history. Furthermore, as far as I can tell, Grayroad's curse has only really shown to be able to be effective against more "traditional" attacks like punches or laser beams, and still leaves room for more unconventional types of offence, which Ajeel's magic could certainly fulfil should you not have the feats to back this up.

Again, this logic makes no semblance of sense. If you kill in Grayroad's presence, you die. It doesn't matter how you kill. You can crush someone, vaporize someone, etc. Killing in general is what activates Grayroad's Commandment, a specific method of killing was never specified. Just because Grayroad has not faced someone who can manipulate sand doesn't mean that Ajeel's magic automatically bypasses Grayroad's Commandment without any feats. That literally makes no sense. Grayroad does not have a weakness to sand attacks lol.

Another & arguably more important thing to consider is that throughout this post, it seems you've completely ignored Freed's barriers, which can frankly be the perfect tool for dealing with this. With it, he can easily make the barrier follow the rules of "the barrier will not go away until only 1 person is left standing" and make it so that you have to fight amongst yaself. Not as if it'd be OOC for him given what he did to Juvia & Cana, as shown in my opener.

You don't have full knowledge, or even basic knowledge on me. So this can't be done during prep. This is significant as Freed only used this on Juvia and Cana by luring them to where he had already set up the barrier as a trap:

No Caption Provided

The likelihood of Freed pulling this off before getting bisected is very low.

And it's not as if Grayroad is immune to his own curse or anything, as over Commandments (namely Galand) have admitted to having to follow their own curses, so it wouldn't make much sense if Grayroad wasn't under the same rules that Galand is. With this in mind, You're not escaping your own curse whilst stuck in Freed's barrier, so best hope you have a way out.

I said this already, in my opener. You aren't making a point here. Law's ability can incap you without killing.

Though honestly, that'd be Freed doing things the hard way, as all he needs to write down is to make it so that the barrier will make it so that whoever is in it (i.e. your team) will suffocate until they pass out as he did here, a move that completely invalidates Grayroad's powers, and your main win-con along with it. This also means you have 2 forms of hax to get around, and even if Ajeel accidentally kills your guy, Freed and the others are still kicking, so that's still a W for me.

This is the textbook example of unrealistic. How do you expect Freed to use his barriers to the same effectiveness he did against Fairy Tail against Calamity. The barriers take a long time to form and are borderline useless in sudden battles. Even if you have prep, Freed has no knowledge on my team, so he can't possibly make a barrier to account for the advantages I bring, and he definitely isn't pulling this off in the midst of battle. Freed's power is best used for traps, and even Freed's traps are useless without sufficient knowledge on the opponent:

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The reality is, Ajeel's sand magic is useless. If he does manage to kill one of Calamity's duplicates, Ajeel dies. And then what? Who is going to pick up the slack? Freed? Whose most hax ability either won't work (pain receptor manip will be transferred to the duplicates and they have to kill in order to actually affect Calamity) or aren't applicable (the barriers need not only prep, but knowledge as they are in fact traps). Either way, Ajeel is borderline useless against my team.

So what really is your win condition here? How do you win? Even Vanessa's destiny manip is purely defensive (more on that later). Ajeel is useless and Freed's offensive attacks won't be effective at all. And, you have no knowledge on my team and I know for a fact that Ajeel is willing to kill, and I don't think Freed has any problems with that either. So your attacks either don't get past Hawkin's Strawman Hax or you fall victim to Grayroad's Commandment. Either way, your heavy hitters or useless and that leaves you with what? Vanessa? Whose main role as as support in every battle she has been in?

"A man's steps are from the Lord; how then can man understand his way?"

~ Proverbs 20:24

Neat, but it gets kekw'd by Vanessa's magic.

Can you really say this with such confidence? Like I already showed her fate magic failing to stop a restraining attack and then proceeding to neg an attack that almost killed her. From this, I've discerned that her fate manip really only activates on traditional attacks. In addition to getting restrained, Vanessa's magic also failed to prevent the drowsiness of Glamour World:

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Would this fate manip even work on Law's Devil Fruit abilities, who doesn't even deal damage to the victim? Hell, even if you argue that Law's attacks are negged, I know for a fact that this will only be temporary. Vanessa has low stamina reserves and she needs food. But Vanessa's fate manipulation does not protect the food:

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So again, Law's scan can teleport the food away, meaning that Vanessa will quickly exhaust her mana, leaving her whole team victim to being bisected and incapped. One last thing:

I mean if it works on blood manipulation (something that's hardly "traditional"), there's nothing saying it wouldn't work on any of those unless any of your characters have feats of beating through destiny manipulation.

Keep this logic in mind, Gil. Because if I were to use your counters against Hawkins and Grayroad, I can easily say "well, this ability has never combated spacial manipulation like Law's, so gg." Obviously, that logic is flawed unless the ability has shown clear cut limits. Hawkins and Grayroad do not fit that criteria, but Vanessa does. And yet, it seems you are willing to give her more of the benefit of the doubt. Quite disingenuous if I do say so myself.

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Closer: I Can't Think of a Catchy Subtitle lmao

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You are overblowing Silver Fang's statement. He only called the orbs a "heart," in the sense that they are his weakpoints and can be used to kill Melzargard. He did not draw any equivalency to Melzargard's orbs and the human heart in terms of functionality, like you are trying to imply.

Missing the forest for the trees here. Frankly what I said regarding Fang was window-dressings and you still need to prove that Mel doesn't have an internal water Ajeel can succ away.

Additionally, I never argued that Melzargard didn't have any moisture. He is on Earth, there is literally moisture in the air. Rather, I am questioning if vaporizing said moisture would really be effective.

I'm saying he would have moisture inside his body, similar to the bloodstream that regular lads and lasses have. But we'll touch on that more when we get to DSK.

Let's think about this rationally. Melzargard comes from outer space, and has traversed the universe with Boros for decades. In space alone, water rapidly vaporizes or boils away due to the lack of air pressure. Melzargard's interstellar travel would already make him well accustomed to low moisture environments. And that's without getting into the varying climates on planets in our own solar system alone. So, it is hard for me to accept that Melzargard would be oneshotted by vaporizing all of the moisture in his body. Especially since characters like Deep Sea King, who literally lives in the water, have shrugged off attacks like this:

One Punch Man Chapter 32
One Punch Man Chapter 32

I mean, why would Mel clearly have blood in his body if he didn't need it to survive (or some alien moisture equivalent. Either way, it's moisture all the same)? Doesn't make a lot of sense to me, or at the very least you need to somehow prove that Mel doesn't need this blood to survive.

I don't see how Genos' mountain top vaporizing heat only affects Deep Sea King at the skin level. That doesn't make sense to me.

Because Genos has never shown to do internal damage? Something like that should be obvious.

Sea King is like a sponge, where he absorbs water and becomes more powerful. To reverse that process, you can't just vaporize the moisture on his skin. Genos would have had to do the same thing Ajeel did, vaporizing the moisture in his body.

Where is it stated that DSK absorbs water? As far as I'm aware, a statement like that doesn't exist and this is you just inferring your interpretation with no actual evidence.

Hell for that matter there isn't even proof that DSK reverted to his dehydrated form at all, all the scan you showed in your opener showed that Genos got hurt by the blast.

One Punch Man Chapter 26
One Punch Man Chapter 26

And it's not as if you can say "oh, Genos burned all the water off", cause not only is there no proof of this beyond pure speculation, but DSK would've gone right back to his hydrated form since it was still raining outside, which is where Genos conveniently yeeted him too. We never get a clear picture of if Genos actually did revert DSK back to normal since we never see him dehydrated again, thus we can only speculate and guess if he went back to normal. So not only you need to prove Mel doesn't have blood (something disproven by OPM itself) but also that Genos explicitly removed DSK's hydrated form, without any room for doubts.

Genos would have had to do the same thing Ajeel did, vaporizing the moisture in his body. And yet, Deep Sea King was fine.

Except what Ajeel did is internal and Genos has no proof of doing that kind of damage.

And, as I said, it is ludicrous to think Melzargard would be more susceptible to water vaping attacks then someone who gets stronger with water exposure.

Not when he explicitly has some equivalent to blood in his body.

I think it is even more telling that, from the fights I've read of Ajeel, he has never once done what you are describing. His "moisture vaporizing" sand didn't do anything of note to the people of Magnolia despite covering the entire landscape in sand. Even when fighting Erza, it took several chapters of spamming sand attacks for him to finally start "shriveling" Erza up, and even that didn't get the job done in the end. This very magic proved pretty much ineffective against the very people it is tailored to kill. So, why on God's green Earth, do you think that this attack is going to one shot Melzargard? A being who does not rely on water at all and can only be killed by destroying his 5 orbs.

Ignoring the relying on water issue since Mel since the OPM manga contradicts this without some head-canon about him "not needing it", this can be debunked pretty easily.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

Simply put, throughout the fight against Erza, Ajeel was being a cocky little bastard, constantly saying stuff like "you're not even worth under-estimating" and even trying to torture Titania into calling him a god. All of this cockiness makes it pretty clear that Ajeel didn't just make Erza all shrivelled up was because he was being incredibly arrogant & didn't want her to die just yet & make her suffer, which makes this kind of debunk not really work given the circumstances.

Obviously spacial manipulation is different from sand manipulation. But why is that relevant? Hawkin's Devil Fruit transfers attack damage and affects to his Strawmen. It is not a specific counter to Law's ability. If you are arguing that Ajeel's sand can bypass the affects of Hawkin's Devil Fruit, you need to show why.

I'm saying Hawkins, based on what you've shown, has only been able to deal with more traditional attacks like sword slashes and the like. Now, obviously Law is more than just Unga Bunga sword, I'm aware, but at the end of the day, his main method of offence is still "hit dudes with a sword", just with added details. That's not comparable to succing out moisture, not even remotely in the same ballpark, especially when it can't even be considered traditional "damage". What you need to show is that Hawkins is capable of dealing with more than just regular sword styled attacks, and instead of a method of attack as unconventional as sand draining.

Think of it like this; The madness of Law's attacks are different from regular swords, but the method is the same. You have to prove not only the method but also the madness of Ajeel will work.

It is an AoE attack. Law famously uses AoE attacks all the time, this being one of them. He attempts to bisect Hawkins and his henchmen in the Room, and he doesn't affect Hawkins

Nice of you to actually show him doing so consistently.

And no, Gil. Using the anime version of this scene that includes things never shown in the manga isn't viable evidence.

It's the same scene though. I'm aware there are some shots added in but that one, in particular, is ripped straight from the panels of the manga.

Like, how does this show Law slicing them one by one? The person on the far left isn't anywhere near Law's sword. This is clearly an AoE attack, akin to what he did against Vergo. But Hawkins was unaffected.

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Because we can clearly see that Law swung his sword in a circular motion. If it was an AoE attack, Law wouldn't need to do one giant circle and instead let a single hit facing 1 guy do the work for him. Instead, Law's clearly goes in a circular motion, going from right to left, all but invalidating any chance of him hitting all of them at once.

This actually makes a lot of sense if you factor in something you yourself have brought up before in your opener, that being Law's range. With how far Room can travel, the distance you mentioned regarding the guy on the left is anything but too far for Law to catch, and instead, all he needs to do is do a swing in the dudes general direction and he slices like butter. Really you mentioning the distance changes nothing given the nature of Law's toolkit.

If anything this is more akin to a long-ranged sword than something akin to an AoE explosion, so again, not comparable to Ajeel's omnipresent nature.

You can attack them but I will be attacking you, so bad idea.

Through Freed's barriers? Somehow I doubt it.

Again, this logic makes no semblance of sense. If you kill in Grayroad's presence, you die. It doesn't matter how you kill. You can crush someone, vaporize someone, etc. Killing in general is what activates Grayroad's Commandment, a specific method of killing was never specified. Just because Grayroad has not faced someone who can manipulate sand doesn't mean that Ajeel's magic automatically bypasses Grayroad's Commandment without any feats. That literally makes no sense. Grayroad does not have a weakness to sand attacks lol.

Nice of you to ignore the main point of Ajeel being the only one doing the killing, and instead of going after what's a B-plan at best, given that in the worst-case scenario Grayroad & Ajeel kill each other, which is still my victory since I have 3 other members.

You don't have full knowledge, or even basic knowledge on me. So this can't be done during prep. This is significant as Freed only used this on Juvia and Cana by luring them to where he had already set up the barrier as a trap: The likelihood of Freed pulling this off before getting bisected is very low.

Don Qua? What does basic knowledge have to do with anything, Gear? What's stopping Freed from setting up the barriers during prep time, and how does knowledge of any kind change that?

I said this already, in my opener. You aren't making a point here. Law's ability can incap you without killing.

Way to ignore the point Gear. The point I was making here was not Law or anyone else, but Freed, as his barrier will force you to fight amongst yourself, ending with Grayroad killing himself through not obeying his own curse. Unless you can prove otherwise, killing the clones still count as a kill. So with that in mind, prove you can get out of Freed's barrier without killing yourself via ya own power.

This is the textbook example of unrealistic. How do you expect Freed to use his barriers to the same effectiveness he did against Fairy Tail against Calamity. The barriers take a long time to form and are borderline useless in sudden battles. Even if you have prep,

Answered your own question there, lad. I have prep plus Freed is amped by Tenrou Island, frankly, he has all the time in the world.

Freed has no knowledge on my team, so he can't possibly make a barrier to account for the advantages I bring, and he definitely isn't pulling this off in the midst of battle. Freed's power is best used for traps, and even Freed's traps are useless without sufficient knowledge on the opponent:

I ask again, what does knowledge prevent Freed from doing? He's still more than willing and capable to set up a barrier that either says "only 1 organism may remain alive" or just suffocate you on the spot. If anyone's not making a point it's you, or if you are I can't understand it for the life of me. Prove to me why no prior knowledge would make it so Freed can't set up a barrier during prep, else suffer the consequences.

The reality is, Ajeel's sand magic is useless. If he does manage to kill one of Calamity's duplicates, Ajeel dies.

Again, Grayroad dies along with him since all the clones die along with him since all the clones are dying at once.

And then what? Who is going to pick up the slack? Freed? Whose most hax ability either won't work (pain receptor manip will be transferred to the duplicates and they have to kill in order to actually affect Calamity) or aren't applicable (the barriers need not only prep, but knowledge as they are in fact traps). Either way, Ajeel is borderline useless against my team.

Why do traps require prior knowledge? Freed knows he's going into a fight, so why wouldn't he create traps beforehand when that literally what he did in The Battle of Fairy Tail. Before the fight started, set up traps so that people fall into them. Honestly, I'm very confused, and at least you need to elaborate more.

So what really is your win condition here? How do you win? Even Vanessa's destiny manip is purely defensive (more on that later). Ajeel is useless and Freed's offensive attacks won't be effective at all.

Simple, Freed's barrier will either suffocate you unconscious, preventing the curse going off or makes it so that you are forced to kill your own clones, which counts as a kill, to which you die of your own curse. Doesn't matter which, either works fine.

And, you have no knowledge on my team and I know for a fact that Ajeel is willing to kill, and I don't think Freed has any problems with that either.

Ajeel sure, but Freed didn't kill Rustyrose (we see him around later before Zeref boops Hades), a member of Grimoire Heart who tried to murder Elfman & Evergreen. Don't see why he'd be starting now.

So your attacks either don't get past Hawkin's Strawman Hax or you fall victim to Grayroad's Commandment.

Our neither and you suffocate yourself into a KO.

Can you really say this with such confidence? Like I already showed her fate magic failing to stop a restraining attack and then proceeding to neg an attack that almost killed her. From this, I've discerned that her fate manip really only activates on traditional attacks.

So does the blood manipulation & negating someone literally sweating out anti-magic that negates all other magecraft in the verse showings not exist anymore? Good to know, unless that's considered "traditional" attacks, which is pretty amusing.

Black Clover Chapter 183
Black Clover Chapter 183

However, this is countered pretty easily, as the only reason it didn't work is that Rouge (the name for her cat thing) didn't count being yeeted into magic dream world a crisis. So realistically, if it poses a threat to my team members, Destiny manip will still work fine. Same reason why it didn't work on the hypnosis really.

Oh, and before you mention Grayroad's end of the spectrum, I'm pretty sure if it is a "crisis" is what matters, then rapidly ageing to the point of death would most certainly count.

Would this fate manip even work on Law's Devil Fruit abilities, who doesn't even deal damage to the victim?

I imagine being cut in half by a magic space sword would most certainly count as a crisis.

Vanessa has low stamina reserves and she needs food. But Vanessa's fate manipulation does not protect the food:

Frankly, her stamina isn't that low if she's able to constantly apply against Elf possessed Luck, shown earlier. Really Charmy's just here as a precaution and cause I had an extra character point to burn. The fight won't be lasting long enough to where Vanessa's stamina issue will really be an issue. Unless of your course, you can actually prove that Vanessa will burn out in a couple of hits, of which I've already disproven thanks to her showing against her mother & Dark Asta, but go ahead and try anyway.

Keep this logic in mind, Gil. Because if I were to use your counters against Hawkins and Grayroad, I can easily say "well, this ability has never combated spacial manipulation like Law's, so gg." Obviously, that logic is flawed unless the ability has shown clear cut limits.

Ironic given that you're trying to push Law as your main bypass to Vanessa even though I can easily say "well, Room has never cut through Destiny manipulation, so GG." And I wouldn't count your attempts at debunking Vanessa for not being able to negate Elf Dorothy's magic isn't good enough given the circumstances.

What You Failed to Prove & How I See The Battle Going:

Frankly, this fight is over the moment it begins & only Freed is truly needed. The moment the fight starts, you'll be dumped right into Freed's barrier, it is able to cover all of Magnolia, as I showed should be enough to show that it'll more than cover all of the area you'll spawn in. From there it depends on Freed's mood, but realistically, making your entire team suffocate via lack of oxygen and knock you unconscious, completely bypassing Grayroad's hax. All the whilst, you have Ajeel succing you dry, which at worst would cause a double KO with the other 3 members of my team still standing, as well as Vanessa lol-nahing anything you throw at her. Frankly, I don't see your win condition, meanwhile, I've stuck to mine this entire time so best hope this last post impresses.

One Punch Man Chapter 36
One Punch Man Chapter 36

Oh, and 1 more thing. Since I have a hunch you'll argue "proof Mel can't survive without air" or something to that effect, considering that Boros, the strongest alien and who brags about surviving on a hellish environment, still needs air given that he's panting (i.e. gasping for air) after yeeting Saitama to the moon, Mel should be pretty comparable given that they're part of the same crew, unlike say DSK, who has nothing to do with anything.

  1. Genos burnt DSK internally, let alone transforming him into his dehydrated form
  2. Why Freed needs prior knowledge to setup traps during prep (put emphasis on this cause am very confused on that)
  3. Law used an AoE attack akin to what Ajeel did, not just a circular swing
  4. You have any means to bypass Freed's barrier
  5. You wouldn't suffocate on lack of oxygen, or die to your own curse
  6. Why Freed can't solo with his barriers, frankly.

So yeah, have fun getting solo'd be a 4 pointer lmao.

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GilgameshThePimpToEndAllPimps

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*solo'd by 4 pointer* I like it, I like it a lot

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Closer // Second Coming

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Your closer has cemented my team's victory in stone. Your willingness to dismiss and downplay evidence just to suit your argument is telling of your actual chances in this battle. The reality of the situation is that without backwards logic and mental gymnastics, you have no win condition, or any condition that doesn't end with your demise. So, let's end this:

The Book of Numbers // Fall of Ajeel

There is no question, no semblance of doubt in my mind that Ajeel is useless in this battle. Your counters played no small part in this opinion. Your stubborn insistence on arguing moisture draining being effective against someone already accustomed to interstellar, low moisture environments is bordering on moronic argumentation. Further compounded by one of Ajeel's most powerful sand attacks failing to kill a single terrestrial opponent. Let me nip this in the bud:

I mean, why would Mel clearly have blood in his body if he didn't need it to survive (or some alien moisture equivalent. Either way, it's moisture all the same)? Doesn't make a lot of sense to me, or at the very least you need to somehow prove that Mel doesn't need this blood to survive.

Why do I need to prove that Melzargard can survive without blood? Ajeel isn't a vampire. He does not suck blood from his opponents. This was never shown, or remotely implied. Once again, I never contested Melzargard having moisture. I've literally said this since the beginning. I am contesting its effectiveness. Mezlargard's very being is regulated and maintained by just five orbs, possessing none of the cells, organs or tissues that we humans have. So, why are you subscribing to the unsubstantiated notion that Melzargard needs water. That Melzargard, someone who has traversed the depths of outer space for decades, needs moisture to survive? Have you forgotten that water is a scarce resource in just our solar system alone? And that Melzargard, along with Boros, have traversed the depths of the universe. Melzargard would literally be dead weight if he was reliant on moisture in environments when there isn't much to live off of. At the end of the day, you have proven nothing here. You continue to strawman me despite me clarifying my position several times.

Simply put, throughout the fight against Erza, Ajeel was being a cocky little bastard, constantly saying stuff like "you're not even worth under-estimating" and even trying to torture Titania into calling him a god. All of this cockiness makes it pretty clear that Ajeel didn't just make Erza all shrivelled up was because he was being incredibly arrogant & didn't want her to die just yet & make her suffer, which makes this kind of debunk not really work given the circumstances.

This is a poor excuse. In the very scans you posted, Ajeel literally says "become dust and crumble." Why would Ajeel be holding back against Erza? Shit talking doesn't prove that Ajeel is holding back against Erza, it is a pretty common trope for anime/manga villains. Not to mention that this is all irrelevant to my original point:

I think it is even more telling that, from the fights I've read of Ajeel, he has never once done what you are describing. His "moisture vaporizing" sand didn't do anything of note to the people of Magnolia despite covering the entire landscape in sand.

Ajeel being cocky with Erza is no excuse for Ajeel's island level AoE sandstorm not killing a single person. Ajeel's sand only proved to be a sensory inconvenience for the people of Magnolia, but there is no reference to dehydration or anything close:

No Caption Provided

Once again, Ajeel's sand covering the entire landscape of Magnolia kills not a single person, and you expect me to believe that Ajeel will oneshot someone of a far different anatomy who does not need moisture to live? And don't argue Ajeel was "holding back." At the beginning of that very chapter, Ajeel gets slashed by Erza and lashes out in a fit of rage:

No Caption Provided

So, once again, is is quite interesting how you are banking on an attack that has literally never killed one person, despite being used against hundreds of thousands of people, as a way to kill my build. Ajeel even failed to kill Erza after spamming sand attacks over and over:

  1. Sand Attack One
  2. Sand Attack Two
  3. Sand Attack Three

It is only when Ajeel comes in close and grabs Erza by the throat that we see Erza visually dehydrate. And even that didn't kill her. And Ajeel, in all of the linked scans, was saying stuff like "crumble to dust" and "shrivel up." There is no way you can tell me that Ajeel intended to keep Erza alive when his dialogue implies the exact opposite.

Quite frankly, I don't need to address your Deep Sea King "debunks." Not only because it literally makes no sense (how did we not see DSK in his dehydrated form, tf?), but it was mainly complimentary evidence. For my closers, I try to focus on the main points and the main ideas. And you have failed to substantiate the powerhouse of your team doing anything of note.

The Book of Genesis // Hawkins

This rebuttal was downright infuriating. I could not help myself from being vexed when you are referring to spatial bisection as a traditional attack. And you are the same person to sat that blood manipulation, friggin blood manipulation, isn't at all "traditional." This is utterly ridiculous:

I'm saying Hawkins, based on what you've shown, has only been able to deal with more traditional attacks like sword slashes and the like.

He has only ever faced those opponents. Hawkins has literally had three on screen fights, one against an admiral, and two against swordsmen. That side, this assertion couldn't read more ignorant. Law uses "traditional" sword attacks? Are you serious? Do "traditional" sword attacks leave their victims as a sentient pair of legs, separated from its main body:

No Caption Provided

How is it that an attack can slice you in half and not harm you, and that is called "traditional." That literally makes no sense.

Now, obviously Law is more than just Unga Bunga sword, I'm aware, but at the end of the day, his main method of offence is still "hit dudes with a sword", just with added details.

No, it's not. What are you on about? Most of the time, he doesn't even hit you with his sword because of Room's AoE. And when he does, it doesn't harm you. It doesn't inflict damage. Stop trying to downplay this as some standard sword attack when it quite literally isn't.

That's not comparable to succing out moisture, not even remotely in the same ballpark, especially when it can't even be considered traditional "damage". What you need to show is that Hawkins is capable of dealing with more than just regular sword styled attacks, and instead of a method of attack as unconventional as sand draining.

This is getting on my nerves. You wonder why things don't go your way, this is the reason. Your incessant lowballing without doing any research. Law's attacks don't do "traditional" damage. They don't do any "Damage" at all. This is literally stated verbatim in CANON:

No Caption Provided

Again, you completely miss my point. Obviously Law and Ajeel have completely different abilities. But, as I've said ad nauseam, that is irrelevant. Hawkin's Devil Fruit doesn't specifically counter Law's ability. It literally transfers attack damage or hax. Meaning that the damage you inflict on Hawkins will be transferred to another duplicate. This is not rocket science. You need to prove that Ajeel's sand can literally bypass hax and completely neg its affects. And you have nothing, absolutely nothing to show for it. other than:

"well, has Hawkins faced sand attacks before? Hmm, I don't think so. Therefore, Hawkins is useless."

This is caveman logic, and I really did expect better from you.

Think of it like this; The madness of Law's attacks are different from regular swords, but the method is the same. You have to prove not only the method but also the madness of Ajeel will work.

The method is not the same. Law's Ope Ope No Mi abilities doesn't require a sword to work. You realize that right? A sword slash and an attack from Law are fundamentally different. The fact that Law can literally cut you in half and deal no damage at the same time should tell you that these attacks aren't regular or any semblance of conventional.

Nice of you to actually show him doing so consistently.

Here, Law slices a squad of Marines over a dozen of meters away:

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Law does the same thing Post Time Skip, from an even further distance:

No Caption Provided

And then, on a massive scale, Law does this:

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The first two scans shows that Law's sword doesn't need to be anywhere near his opponent to bisect them, meaning that your "debunk" of the Hawkin's showing is flawed, AoE wise.

It's the same scene though. I'm aware there are some shots added in but that one, in particular, is ripped straight from the panels of the manga.

I've actually read all 970+ chapters of OP several times over, so if I tell you its not the same, you should take that on good faith since you haven't passed Chapter 1. In the manga, Law did not use Tact nor did he fling bodies at Hawkins nor did his sword physically touch the henchmen. That whole scene was a telling of the fight, akin to Luffy vs Kaido.

Because we can clearly see that Law swung his sword in a circular motion. If it was an AoE attack, Law wouldn't need to do one giant circle and instead let a single hit facing 1 guy do the work for him. Instead, Law's clearly goes in a circular motion, going from right to left, all but invalidating any chance of him hitting all of them at once.

No, no no. What? Law always swings his sword in a circular motion. And he still uses AoE attacks with them, case and point:

No Caption Provided

Circular motion. The very next page:

No Caption Provided

AoE.

Law swinging his sword doesn't debunk AoE. That literally makes no sense and only shows that you haven't attempted any research before making these bold claims.

This actually makes a lot of sense if you factor in something you yourself have brought up before in your opener, that being Law's range. With how far Room can travel, the distance you mentioned regarding the guy on the left is anything but too far for Law to catch, and instead, all he needs to do is do a swing in the dudes general direction and he slices like butter. Really you mentioning the distance changes nothing given the nature of Law's toolkit.

If anything this is more akin to a long-ranged sword than something akin to an AoE explosion, so again, not comparable to Ajeel's omnipresent nature.

This statement is literally debunked by Law's Punk Hazard showing, where he shows omnidirectional AoE. If Law is faced with a squad of Pirates surrounding him, you expect me to believe he would not use omnidirectional AoE, and instead resort to cutting them one by one? That isn't visually implied, but it also doesn't hold up logically.

On the topic of Grayroad, you finally dropped your attempted "debunk" and switched arguments once again. So, we both believe that Grayroad's Commandment can and will kill all members of your team should you kill in his presence.

Book of Wisdom // Freed Without Knowledge

So Freed has no knowledge or intel on my team, and you have the audacity to say this is likely to happen:

He's still more than willing and capable to set up a barrier that either says "only 1 organism may remain alive" or just suffocate you on the spot

Gilgamesh, you think Freed is going to set up a barrier specifically catered to taking out a group of enemies without any knowledge? Why would he do that? For all he knows, he could be facing one person and he just wasted his magic energy on creating a useless barrier. It makes no sense how you have no basic knowledge and you are continuing to argue that Freed will hard counter my strat, just cause. Even moreso considering that Freed needs a lot of prep time to set up these barriers.

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And Makarov wasn't exaggerating when he said it takes a long time to draw. Freed's return to Fairy Tail in Chapter 106 was a week before the Harvest Festival:

Fairy Tail: Chapter 106
Fairy Tail: Chapter 106

It is stated that Freed set his traps right from the start, as in since his return to Fairy Tail after his year and a half of absence. Anyway, it is only after a week passes, during the Harvest Festival (in Chapter 107), that the traps are set and Laxus is ready to start the Battle of Fairy Tail:

Fairy Tail: Chapter 107
Fairy Tail: Chapter 107

So, the only time we've seen Freed use his barriers is when he had literally a week of prep (vs the hour you have here), along with full knowledge, noted by Lucy. You are proposing this:

The moment the fight starts, you'll be dumped right into Freed's barrier, it is able to cover all of Magnolia, as I showed should be enough to show that it'll more than cover all of the area you'll spawn in.

You are proposing that Freed will cover a Magnolia sized area in an hour. Even though the last time he did this, it took him an entire week and he had the invaluable luxury of full knowledge, so he could counter the Guild members with specific conditions. Like Makarov for example. Tenrou Island amps his magic power, sure. But you never quantified that amp, at least not to the point that Freed can accomplish a week long spell in just an hour. To be honest, I don't see Freed's Barriers coming into play at all. You don't have nearly enough prep time or intel to justify Freed being able to conjure barriers effectively.

The Finale // Vanessa's Fate Manipulation

Lastly, we arrive at Vanessa's Fate Manipulation. It is a potent ability, but it has shown limits.

No Caption Provided

The Cat has to recognize the ability as a "crisis" for the fate manip to take affect. It did not percieve getting teleported into the Dream World as a crisis, nor did it take affect on the drowsiness side effect of being in the Dream World, which can literally kill you over time:

No Caption Provided

"And once you fall asleep... you'll never wake up again"

So why on Earth would the Cat perceive an attack that deals no damage, as a "Crisis?" Getting teleported into a whole other world where Vanessa feels out of her element, getting restrained, and even drowsiness that eventually kills its victims. All of that is not a Crisis. By getting separated, painlessly and harmlessly, no damage taken whatsoever. That's the Crisis? I can't begin to describe how unconvincing this argument is. But, even if I said that Vanessa could neg Law's powers, it would only be brief. Because, as I've shown, Law can teleport the food away and leave Vanessa to quickly run out of Mana.

I mean, for reference, she has to constantly keep eating after she uses her powers. So, with her food supply cut off, she won't last long:

No Caption Provided

Frankly, her stamina isn't that low if she's able to constantly apply against Elf possessed Luck, shown earlier

It is very low. She had to binge eat during her entire fight in the Dreamworld. She burns out on Mana fast. If she was capable if fighting fine on her own, she wouldn't need a cooking witch to accompany her. With Asta, Vanessa was under a burst of adrenaline and in a very emotional state, trying to stop her friend from slaughtering her other friends. In a standard battle scenario, that is far from applicable and it shouldn't take long for it to run out. And when that happens, your team gets bisected (assuming her fate negs it in the first place).

Conclusion

My build wins this handily. Ajeel is useless in every regard. One hour of prep is canonically nowhere near enough time for Freed to erect barriers at the scale you are arguing at, and your lack of knowledge will hinder the effectiveness of these barriers, condition wise. Vanessa's magic likely won't account for Room, and even if it does, her lack of a food supply will burn her out quickly. You have no win condition here. Ajeel kills one of my duplicates, he dies. Same with Freed. With Breakable Bugs, you are bound to mess up and sacrifice your life. Which leaves Law's Room, where you get completely bisected and incapped.

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First off, I was unconvinced with Gilgamesh's responses to the sand's questionable effectiveness. From the very start, it was touted as an instant one-shot ability that would be able to wipe out all 5 Calamities (Calami?) in one go, but Defiant's point about it failing to do noticeable harm to Ezra after repeated attacks kinda sunk that ship quickly. Sure you could argue he was being arrogant or something but that would require me as the voter to assume that he was just throwing random blasts of sand at Ezra after repeatedly going "MUH MOISTURE" which doesn't really make sense. Gil also didn't counter it failing to effect regular ass humans so yeah.

However....I just don't see Calamity getting past Freed's barriers (assuming Gil's team knows where they spawn and if they dont correct me since that changes my whole conclusion). I agree with Freed not setting up a town-sized barrier in an hour, but I just don't see a counter to Freed setting up one of those oxygen-sapping barriers on the spawn point, perhaps pairing it with one of those ones that make you fight yourself and just sit there eating popcorn. Calamity isn't a physical fighter, so I don't really see him busting out of one of them, and Defiant didn't really show any counters to suffocation other than saying "He's an Alien" which isn't super convincing to me

Great debate both of you. Really close, but I have to give it to @gilgameshthepimptoendallpimps

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#19  Edited By defiant_will

@laskt: Thanks for voting. One thing I wanted to clarify:

However....I just don't see Calamity getting past Freed's barriers (assuming Gil's team knows where they spawn and if they dont correct me since that changes my whole conclusion).

We both have prep on the island so, presumably, we would both be spawned to the same place after prep is up

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GilgameshGear
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@laskt: Gilgamesh and I had a discussion about this on Discord, and I wanted to clarify the argument about Freed.

However....I just don't see Calamity getting past Freed's barriers (assuming Gil's team knows where they spawn and if they dont correct me since that changes my whole conclusion).

Gilgamesh was arguing for a large barrier that would cover the area, including the spawn points. I contested a large barrier being formed. We never really talked about the prospect of Freed knowing my exact spawn location and forming a small barrier there.

Just wanted to clarify that for you. Thanks for voting, nonetheless :)

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@defiant_will: Ah, my mistake. From the way Gil said it I sort of assumed that he was going "Your team spawns in this 5x5 grid, and I already have a barrier set up around it so it takes effect when you spawn in" sorta thing

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@laskt said:

@defiant_will: Ah, my mistake. From the way Gil said it I sort of assumed that he was going "Your team spawns in this 5x5 grid, and I already have a barrier set up around it so it takes effect when you spawn in" sorta thing

Nah, he was arguing a barrier that covers a large area. The spawn points just so happen to be within that area

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@gilgameshthepimptoendallpimps: @defiant_will:

Well, this was a good match and a pretty close one, but I find myself leaning slightly more towards Gil's arguments.

Gear did a good job debunking the effectiveness of Ajeel's sand and other points throughout the debate, and his overall strategy was pretty good, but Gil did a good job proving that Vanessa would counter most if not all of Gear's offensive options and Freed's barriers provided a good way to put down Gear's team in a way that wasn't properly accounted for. I think if Gear had a little more to counter Freed's barriers then I might be voting the other way but as it is I'm voting for Gilgamesh.

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@laskt said:

First off, I was unconvinced with Gilgamesh's responses to the sand's questionable effectiveness. From the very start, it was touted as an instant one-shot ability that would be able to wipe out all 5 Calamities (Calami?) in one go, but Defiant's point about it failing to do noticeable harm to Ezra after repeated attacks kinda sunk that ship quickly. Sure you could argue he was being arrogant or something but that would require me as the voter to assume that he was just throwing random blasts of sand at Ezra after repeatedly going "MUH MOISTURE" which doesn't really make sense. Gil also didn't counter it failing to effect regular ass humans so yeah.

However....I just don't see Calamity getting past Freed's barriers (assuming Gil's team knows where they spawn and if they dont correct me since that changes my whole conclusion). I agree with Freed not setting up a town-sized barrier in an hour, but I just don't see a counter to Freed setting up one of those oxygen-sapping barriers on the spawn point, perhaps pairing it with one of those ones that make you fight yourself and just sit there eating popcorn. Calamity isn't a physical fighter, so I don't really see him busting out of one of them, and Defiant didn't really show any counters to suffocation other than saying "He's an Alien" which isn't super convincing to me

Great debate both of you. Really close, but I have to give it to @gilgameshthepimptoendallpimps

Pretty much this. I also think it's kind of laughable to compare a space around 100ft to an entire town in terms of time used to make the runes. Realistically, he only has to cover the area the fight itself takes place - not the entire island.

Most of DW's points on Freed's runes didn't really win me over, and if Gil were to pull it off it'd be pretty important.

I also felt the points against Vanessa/Charmy was more nit-picky than actual counters.

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@gilgameshthepimptoendallpimps@defiant_will;

very good and very close debate. however overall I found myself siding with Gil here more times out of 10. Much of the reason I felt Gil took this was due to his Black Clover Combo and Freed. I felt their abilities weren’t adequately countered here, and if they had been things would likely have gone much differently. in fact without Freed, it’s likely that ajeel would have spelled doom for Gilgamesh‘a team due to Grayroad’s commandment. still all in all I feel that’s what it boiled down too, and so once again I side with Gil.

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@gilgameshthepimptoendallpimps: @defiant_will:

This was a pretty good debate, fairly close. This won't be a DH level vote given how straightforward this debate turned out to be. To start off I want to say Gil's counters to sand were fairly weak, he had the scans, he had the statements to back up Ajeel but when Gear started to dissect his arguments relating to Erza not being affected by his sand Its unfortunate because he basically gave a short sentence and simply said "he was arrogant" and not adding further clarification to the fight. Being someone who read the fight just recently, Its a shame that he didn't provide further context or other potential arguments. Here's the timeline for the fight against Erza because I feel Gear took some of it out of context.

  1. Ajeel wraps her in sand
  2. Erza fails to get out
  3. When an opening presents itself, Erza changes into an armor specifically made to counter his sand.
  4. Natsu creates another opening, which leads to Erza landing a blow on him with a sword made specifically to counter his powers. Which leads to Ajeel getting specifically angry, and not holding back.
  5. And as Gil showed his power's effectiveness increased when he directly touched Erza.

So no, the only reason why his sand wasn't affecting Erza was because she managed to defend herself in time to switch to an armor that helped defend against Ajeel's powers, and the point about him not affecting the other combatants on the battlefield makes sense, but I'd chalk it up to not trying to harm the rest of the Spriganns and the invading force, it seems like sand world's only purpose was to boost his mobility and presence. Gil didn't bother with anything close to what I mention here, and simply wrote it off as arrogance without putting any substance to his counters which led to Gear capitalizing on that and dedicating a mini-section to dismissing Ajeel's sand.

Despite winning major points with Gil's heaviest hitter, Gear never once took Freed seriously which to me made no sense, he didn't touch upon Freed in his opener at all. Freed doesn't have to set up runes across the whole island, Gilgamesh said as much, he was only going to cover a 100 foot distance, and lay traps across the island, not all of them had to be massive or huge, just enough that they could trap his character. I wasn't convinced by the in character arguments relating to Freed's runes given how he set up The Battle Of Fairy Tail so that only specific people can move around, and used his runes to force the large group of FT Wizards to fight each other, it made no sense that with an hour of prep he wouldn't abuse his runes in any way. I wasn't convinced he needed knowledge to merely set traps that should be easy to fall into.

I also wasn't convinced on his counters relating to Vanessa's destiny hax, because it seemed pretty straight forward. It seemed just as useful as Hawkins strawman ability yet he tried so hard to dismiss it and nitpick at it. Just like everyone else said, if he focused more of his efforts into debunking the rest of Gil's characters properly I felt he would have pretty much had the debate in the palm of his hand.

Gil just barely takes it due to his usage of his weaker peanut gallery that Gear didn't counter sufficiently enough.

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@gilgameshthepimptoendallpimps: as said on Discord, you will now advance. Congrats man. And thanks for making this a fast round so this tourney actually goes somewhere lmao