Ultimate Jean Grey vs Emma Frost (616)

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#1 Posted by Roddy010 (6310 posts) - - Show Bio

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                                                                                                                    VS


Fight takes place in the Danger Room
Bloodlust is on
Win by KO or Death
They start 10 feet apart
Who wins?
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#2 Posted by JediXMan (42893 posts) - - Show Bio

Emma.

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#3 Posted by Mercy_ (94928 posts) - - Show Bio

I haven't read Ultimate X-Men in a long time, but I don't recall Jean having anything to put her on Emma's level.

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#4 Posted by riri4life (7684 posts) - - Show Bio

Was Emma very strong in ult universe?

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#5 Posted by LordOfAllHumans (7311 posts) - - Show Bio
@The Dark Huntress said:
"I haven't read Ultimate X-Men in a long time, but I don't recall Jean having anything to put her on Emma's level. "

Ultimate Jean is the Phoenix in her universe all the time and always has been and according to Xavier this was just a persona she created to cope with her power a power she used to reset time so that Apoc never happened, she will wreck Emma just like 616 Jean does.
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#6 Posted by LordOfAllHumans (7311 posts) - - Show Bio
@riri4life said:
"Was Emma very strong in ult universe? "

Ultimate Emma is not even a telepath, but this is 616 Emma, she still gets a beat down
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#7 Posted by JediXMan (42893 posts) - - Show Bio

Ultimate Phoenix was crap. She got the crap beaten out of her by a mutant who could make illusions, and his imaginary Blob sat on her.

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#8 Posted by LordOfAllHumans (7311 posts) - - Show Bio
@JediXMan said:
"Ultimate Phoenix was crap. She got the crap beaten out of her by a mutant who could make illusions, and his imaginary Blob sat on her. "

and yet she reset time and flew across space to the gates of heaven was unphased by Silver Surfer,  her very image causing entire races of aliens to wage war and kill themselves in her honor, she will wreck Emma just like 616 Jean does, end of story.
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#9 Posted by God_Spawn (43382 posts) - - Show Bio

Emma.

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#10 Posted by White Angel Of Death (711 posts) - - Show Bio
@LordOfAllHumans said:
" @JediXMan said:
"Ultimate Phoenix was crap. She got the crap beaten out of her by a mutant who could make illusions, and his imaginary Blob sat on her. "
and yet she reset time and flew across space to the gates of heaven was unphased by Silver Surfer,  her very image causing entire races of aliens to wage war and kill themselves in her honor, she will wreck Emma just like 616 Jean does, end of story. "
this!
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#11 Posted by LordOfAllHumans (7311 posts) - - Show Bio
@god_spawn said:
"Emma. "

How?  Please say you have a reason...Jean Grey is more powerful than Emma Frost in just about every reality.  What is Emma gonna do?
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#12 Posted by BigTPotts (134 posts) - - Show Bio

Emma is a mutant scientist, psychologist & has more experience because in this universe she is like 20 years older. (which is terrible) she could play mind games with jean.

jean can only control one mind at a time, cant even stop a falling sentinel with TK. pfft.

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#13 Posted by venomoushatred1001 (12469 posts) - - Show Bio

Emma.

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#14 Posted by TrueIlluminatus (9579 posts) - - Show Bio
@venomoushatred1001 said:

Emma.

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#15 Posted by texasdeathmatch (13673 posts) - - Show Bio

Ult Jean at full power could probably demolish Emma into a smoldering heap, though she's not nearly as well-trained as Emma. So I'm a little undecided.

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#16 Posted by Fetts (6250 posts) - - Show Bio

Emma should take this.

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#17 Posted by acer51 (2695 posts) - - Show Bio

Well i really did'nt know how much Phoenix force Ultimate Jean had but after a few informative post i'd have to say Jean, without Phoenix force 616 Emma stomps though.

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#18 Posted by LordOfAllHumans (7311 posts) - - Show Bio
@BigTPotts said:

Emma is a mutant scientist, psychologist & has more experience because in this universe she is like 20 years older. (which is terrible) she could play mind games with jean.

jean can only control one mind at a time, cant even stop a falling sentinel with TK. pfft.

None of this will help, first she is not a telepath in Ultimate, second this is 616 Emma in the battle, and they made her 20 years "older" in this universe because they were trying to stick to what 616 started, post retcon Emma was a peer of Xavier and an adult while the Xmen where college graduates. A retcon which makes all the same scientific, psychology related background mixed with running a multi-million dollar empire and a school seem less plausible with somebody that is not even 30 yet.
  
Good thing she is only dealing with one mind, and Emma is not a sentinel, then....not to mention she can atomize her and she minderaped an entire family and lived in their home right along side them with other Xmen without them knowing, so where did you get this one mind at a time nonsense from?  What exactly will Emma do to defeat this Jean, this Jean that kills people and has no problem with using all the power at her disposal. 
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#19 Posted by sa5m (2381 posts) - - Show Bio

Did Emma not beat the Rachel on skill even though Rachel has more raw power. Perhaps that will work in her favor again ?

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#20 Posted by Strider1992 (18517 posts) - - Show Bio

Bloodlust on? Jean Grey should win. She had a few stupid moments due to PIS but fighting without that she should take this.

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#21 Posted by God_Spawn (43382 posts) - - Show Bio

@sa5m said:

Did Emma not beat the Rachel on skill even though Rachel has more raw power. Perhaps that will work in her favor again ?

She did beat Rachel, but Rachel was not as skilled at the time nor did she try to use her telekinesis.

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#22 Posted by jeanroygrant (20442 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_spawn said:

Emma.
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#23 Posted by LordOfAllHumans (7311 posts) - - Show Bio

Bloodlusted there is no way Emma is walking away from this alive, no amount of skill has mattered when she has encountered a Jean Grey Phoenix manifestation. Emma was more skilled than Jean during the time Phoenix first put her in a coma. This Jean bloodlusted killed the Hellfirce club and started to play "God" until Xavier calmed her down. This Jean manipulates time and makes it so things never happened. In an instant she could just reduce Emma to a pile of ash or erase her.

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#24 Posted by homosexuality (68 posts) - - Show Bio

Jean.

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#25 Posted by dondave (41760 posts) - - Show Bio

Jean

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#26 Posted by spekqj (610 posts) - - Show Bio

After seeing what Jean did as Karen Grant , Emma has no chance to win this game.

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#27 Posted by Pokergeist (23177 posts) - - Show Bio

Jean as Ultimate Phoenix (as pictured) pwns Emma hard.

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#28 Posted by njones5 (407 posts) - - Show Bio

karen grant/ jean grey wins

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#29 Posted by del_torro (3858 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump up.

Jeans feats as Karen Grant, plus Emmas feats in recent years makes this an interesting battle

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#30 Posted by Koays (11797 posts) - - Show Bio

Eh only goes 2 ways. Pure TP has Emma Godstomping. With TK and Phoenix allowed.... Emma will have to go Diamond and will get beat around all day and night until Phoenix let's her have an opening.

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#31 Posted by deactivated-5be85ba9d64f1 (712 posts) - - Show Bio

Then and now emma

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#32 Posted by TheWatcherKing (18750 posts) - - Show Bio
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#33 Edited by marvelfan1992 (3172 posts) - - Show Bio

@koays said:

Eh only goes 2 ways. Pure TP has Emma Godstomping. With TK and Phoenix allowed.... Emma will have to go Diamond and will get beat around all day and night until Phoenix let's her have an opening.

eh, if it comes to Emma going Diamond vs TK and Phoenix, she won't last. Magneto cracked her with metals bars and medusa cracked her with hair, pretty sure she will get destroyed in diamond form if we take her more recent showings

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#34 Posted by Warlockmage (9409 posts) - - Show Bio

im pretty sure Emma locks her in a telepathy battle and wins

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#35 Posted by del_torro (3858 posts) - - Show Bio

@thewatcherking: I think Emma wins, but not I a stomp. Jean will give her a good fight.

U.Jean is highly skilled and the top telepath in her verse, has planetary level telepthy feats, was able to get into 616 galactus mind with cerebro to spy on him (something classic Xavier couldn't do, and Stormcell said classic Xavier is stronger than current X)

Her feats are skilled and casual, but there's like 4 Telepaths in ultimate universe, so she doesn't have the combat feats to rank her against Emma. Plus it's canon that 616 Jean has more raw power than her

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#36 Posted by Koays (11797 posts) - - Show Bio

@marvelfan1992: So basically people crack the diamond and it makes the diamond weaker not the people that broke it stronger...sure why not, I'm a Koayscell your a marvel cell its whatever.

Seriously, shes getting thrown around and possibly orbited. Theres no reason for Ult. Phoenix to stop TKing her and even if she did it and Emma started tping her, shed probably just start TKing her again.

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#38 Edited by marvelfan1992 (3172 posts) - - Show Bio

@koays said:

@marvelfan1992: So basically people crack the diamond and it makes the diamond weaker not the people that broke it stronger...sure why not, I'm a Koayscell your a marvel cell its whatever.

Seriously, shes getting thrown around and possibly orbited. Theres no reason for Ult. Phoenix to stop TKing her and even if she did it and Emma started tping her, shed probably just start TKing her again.

"So basically people crack the diamond and it makes the diamond weaker not the people that broke it stronger...sure why not," I mean isn't this is irrelevant? Because the point is she was cracked by Medusa's hair and Magneto's metal bars, both of which Ult Phoenix Jean should have more than enough power to replicate unless I am missing something? Is ult phoenix jean not capable of exerting the same, or greater, amount of pressure/energy whatever term than Medusa and Magneto did? Anyway does Jean even have the phoenix here? Pretty sure the phoenix was still a cosmic entity in the ultimate verse and not just the evolution of her power. It left her at the end of the original run, she mentioned it while they were digging the graves

As for TP though, I don't think Jean can still TK her if Emma has assaulted her with TP. Ultimate Jean is supposedly weaker than Lil Jean in raw power, which means she's weaker than Emma too, and Emma is probably more skilled than her (I dont know how skilled ult jean is) so she would probably be stuck in a TP battle which she would lose. Unless she has the PF which I guess she someone can make the case she wins, but I don't recall her TP feats so I won't call a winner on that

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#39 Posted by Koays (11797 posts) - - Show Bio

@marvelfan1992: Lol my point was your scaling her down based on low showings. Emma's diamond form took hits from WWH. I dont care what nonsense Medusa's hair does it doesnt mean anything against her other feats.

If we scale them off of the Jeen statement, then this seriously is a curbstomp. But assuming she is as comparable to Emma as shes presented to be, then shes powerful enough to start getting beat up and use some of her many multitasking feats to knock Emma down long enough to try to recover.

Idk about Phoenix. Ultimate comics X-Men had her doing something weird in the final showdown with Kitty... but who knows.

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#40 Posted by EmmaFrostXmen (3393 posts) - - Show Bio

Ultimate Jean is weak, Emma Stomps

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#41 Edited by marvelfan1992 (3172 posts) - - Show Bio

@koays: ah I see. you should have just said they are low showings for her Diamond form and I would have gotten it lol. wtf jean's final showdown in the series is vs kitty? She goes from fighting apocalypse and being attacked by silver surfer to having a final showdown vs kitty?

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#42 Posted by Koays (11797 posts) - - Show Bio

Yea...Kitty makes her own Utopia and things....get weird. More Kean feats though.

Lol I thought Medusas hair cracking Emma was world renown bs?

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#43 Posted by marvelfan1992 (3172 posts) - - Show Bio

@koays: yikes. I really have to read past ultimatum

why yes, but don't you know, nitpicking feats and twisting them to fit one's needs is the most valuable debating skill on here. I learn from the best, our one true master. But yeah, with Magneto doing it too I thought they felt like knocking her durability down a peg. Is there/will there be a diamond form section on her RT?

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#44 Posted by del_torro (3858 posts) - - Show Bio

@marvelfan1992: @koays: I do believe that Emma wins, but I don't believe we can just scale off teen Jean.

-they said raw power. Even Emma doesn't have raw power on the level as teen Jean. 70s miniskirt Jean grey was said to have infinite power (lmao)

-anyways Jeen has a pis win over Cosmic shard Emma :P

Ultimate Jean has skill,, it just won't be enough to win. I think a better fight would be Wolverine and the X-Men Rachel or current Psylocke.

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#45 Posted by marvelfan1992 (3172 posts) - - Show Bio

@marvelfan1992: @koays: I do believe that Emma wins, but I don't believe we can just scale off teen Jean.

-they said raw power. Even Emma doesn't have raw power on the level as teen Jean. 70s miniskirt Jean grey was said to have infinite power (lmao)

-anyways Jeen has a pis win over Cosmic shard Emma :P

Ultimate Jean has skill,, it just won't be enough to win. I think a better fight would be Wolverine and the X-Men Rachel or current Psylocke.

uh oh, i've seen koays school people for saying this

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#46 Edited by Koays (11797 posts) - - Show Bio

@del_torro@marvelfan1992: eh....Cosmic shard is nonsense that i still havent bothered to check out.

Hes scaling off of INFINITE power miniskirt Jean, what can I say in response?

Except maybe Stryfe has no....wait no, I mean, Teen Jean has no feats on Emma's level.

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#47 Posted by EternalDarkFury (3146 posts) - - Show Bio
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#48 Posted by del_torro (3858 posts) - - Show Bio

@koays: really, you're doubting the infinite power of a mini skirt

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#49 Edited by TourneyMaster (1726 posts) - - Show Bio

@emmafrostxmen said:

Ultimate Jean is weak, Emma Stomps

Considering your name is Emma, I can see why you say something as silly as that.

@eternaldarkfury said:
@emmafrostxmen said:

Ultimate Jean is weak, Emma Stomps

I love to see ya try to defend how she wins :) not that you will try, you only look foolish in the end.

@del_torro said:

@thewatcherking: I think Emma wins, but not I a stomp. Jean will give her a good fight.

U.Jean is highly skilled and the top telepath in her verse, has planetary level telepthy feats, was able to get into 616 galactus mind with cerebro to spy on him (something classic Xavier couldn't do, and Stormcell said classic Xavier is stronger than current X)

Her feats are skilled and casual, but there's like 4 Telepaths in ultimate universe, so she doesn't have the combat feats to rank her against Emma. Plus it's canon that 616 Jean has more raw power than her

Jean wrecks. Emma does not even hold a candle to Jeans feats lmao.

No Caption Provided

Jean scans the world for attackers. Finds them easy.

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In this scan Jean is coordinating a fight, and then at the same time searches the world for Scott and the other X-men fighting their own separate battle, and does both actions at the same time.

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Ultimate Jean was clear equals with 616 Jean by Secret Wars time frame. Thats not for debate. they were equal and both pass out from strain of reading the other. Equals.

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Jean TK is enough to raise miles of land, and disintegrate it on the atomic level. Radiation and all.

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Jean taps her Phoenix powers to freeze time around her and bring her father soul from the dead to converse with for advice.

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Jean here uses her TK to repair a whole city of damage, revert the strongest mutant on earth Apaklypse into a harmless form, and then mind wipes the world of the event. All in a single panel and flash of light.

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Jean travels across the known universe scaning all worlds she flies by of their thoughts looking for heaven. She scans most of the universe in months at these speeds, and stops at the edge of the universe against Silver Searcher and a army of Watchers. She then psychically guides herself home in one week from the edge of the Universe.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

In this INSANE feat of TP, we have 3 scans of events happening at the same time. Scan 1 has Jean telepathically projecting her self in a ship rescue with her X-Men, though she is not there, yet she is stated projecting she is there for the whole world to see on cameras and TVs. Scan 2 has her at the same time visiting SHIELD and Fury while projecting this image to the world, and Fury had TP defenses up at the time. Scan 3 shows Jean fooled both the world and SHIELD as she was mentally projecting in both areas. She was in reality back in Asia with Omega Psychic Xorn, whom Jean was mentally shielding her thoughts from while mentally affecting the world in Scan 1 and by passing TP shields of Scan 2 at the same time evading the mental probes of Xorn!!!! Hot damn!

Emma is so outclass, its not even funny. Total mismatch.

im pretty sure Emma locks her in a telepathy battle and wins

I know you and I have many heated fights in the past but look at the feats and please show me ONE just one of Emma scanning the known universe for someone, moving FTL in TP thought reading, or doing the crazy shit of mind wiping the world several times over as Ultimate had done.

That not accounting freezing time, pulling souls from death, or flat out atomic level manipulation on TK level that manipulate cities at a time.

So who really wins here?

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#50 Edited by marvelfan1992 (3172 posts) - - Show Bio

@tourneymaster: finally seeing some feats for ultimate Jean! thanks for the scans, it's been so long since I read ultimate x-men. Although correct me if i'm wrong, but the phoenix being a part of her own power evolving was a hoax and it is still a god/cosmic entity in the ultimate universe. in which case, everything you posted aside from the Karen scans and the 616 teen jean scans were Phoenix amped Jean (pls correct me if wrong) so I suppose not applicable to standard ultimate Jean. Also the scan you posted of ultimate Jean being equal to 616 Jean, yeah that's teen Jean who is really not comparable to adult 616 Jean and who is also way below Emma, so that doesn't help your case. Also later on they say in that arc that 616 teen jean is more powerful than ultimate jean, so again I would not use her comparison to 616 teen jean to make a case ultimate jean.

The Karen scans are great though. What issue did this happen in? Would love to check it out