VS
Fight takes place in the Danger Room
"I haven't read Ultimate X-Men in a long time, but I don't recall Jean having anything to put her on Emma's level. "
"Was Emma very strong in ult universe? "
"Ultimate Phoenix was crap. She got the crap beaten out of her by a mutant who could make illusions, and his imaginary Blob sat on her. "
" @JediXMan said:this!"Ultimate Phoenix was crap. She got the crap beaten out of her by a mutant who could make illusions, and his imaginary Blob sat on her. "and yet she reset time and flew across space to the gates of heaven was unphased by Silver Surfer, her very image causing entire races of aliens to wage war and kill themselves in her honor, she will wreck Emma just like 616 Jean does, end of story. "
"Emma. "
Ult Jean at full power could probably demolish Emma into a smoldering heap, though she's not nearly as well-trained as Emma. So I'm a little undecided.
None of this will help, first she is not a telepath in Ultimate, second this is 616 Emma in the battle, and they made her 20 years "older" in this universe because they were trying to stick to what 616 started, post retcon Emma was a peer of Xavier and an adult while the Xmen where college graduates. A retcon which makes all the same scientific, psychology related background mixed with running a multi-million dollar empire and a school seem less plausible with somebody that is not even 30 yet.Emma is a mutant scientist, psychologist & has more experience because in this universe she is like 20 years older. (which is terrible) she could play mind games with jean.
jean can only control one mind at a time, cant even stop a falling sentinel with TK. pfft.
Bloodlust on? Jean Grey should win. She had a few stupid moments due to PIS but fighting without that she should take this.
Bloodlusted there is no way Emma is walking away from this alive, no amount of skill has mattered when she has encountered a Jean Grey Phoenix manifestation. Emma was more skilled than Jean during the time Phoenix first put her in a coma. This Jean bloodlusted killed the Hellfirce club and started to play "God" until Xavier calmed her down. This Jean manipulates time and makes it so things never happened. In an instant she could just reduce Emma to a pile of ash or erase her.
@del_torro: Who do you think wins?
Eh only goes 2 ways. Pure TP has Emma Godstomping. With TK and Phoenix allowed.... Emma will have to go Diamond and will get beat around all day and night until Phoenix let's her have an opening.
eh, if it comes to Emma going Diamond vs TK and Phoenix, she won't last. Magneto cracked her with metals bars and medusa cracked her with hair, pretty sure she will get destroyed in diamond form if we take her more recent showings
@thewatcherking: I think Emma wins, but not I a stomp. Jean will give her a good fight.
U.Jean is highly skilled and the top telepath in her verse, has planetary level telepthy feats, was able to get into 616 galactus mind with cerebro to spy on him (something classic Xavier couldn't do, and Stormcell said classic Xavier is stronger than current X)
Her feats are skilled and casual, but there's like 4 Telepaths in ultimate universe, so she doesn't have the combat feats to rank her against Emma. Plus it's canon that 616 Jean has more raw power than her
@marvelfan1992: So basically people crack the diamond and it makes the diamond weaker not the people that broke it stronger...sure why not, I'm a Koayscell your a marvel cell its whatever.
Seriously, shes getting thrown around and possibly orbited. Theres no reason for Ult. Phoenix to stop TKing her and even if she did it and Emma started tping her, shed probably just start TKing her again.
@marvelfan1992: So basically people crack the diamond and it makes the diamond weaker not the people that broke it stronger...sure why not, I'm a Koayscell your a marvel cell its whatever.
Seriously, shes getting thrown around and possibly orbited. Theres no reason for Ult. Phoenix to stop TKing her and even if she did it and Emma started tping her, shed probably just start TKing her again.
"So basically people crack the diamond and it makes the diamond weaker not the people that broke it stronger...sure why not," I mean isn't this is irrelevant? Because the point is she was cracked by Medusa's hair and Magneto's metal bars, both of which Ult Phoenix Jean should have more than enough power to replicate unless I am missing something? Is ult phoenix jean not capable of exerting the same, or greater, amount of pressure/energy whatever term than Medusa and Magneto did? Anyway does Jean even have the phoenix here? Pretty sure the phoenix was still a cosmic entity in the ultimate verse and not just the evolution of her power. It left her at the end of the original run, she mentioned it while they were digging the graves
As for TP though, I don't think Jean can still TK her if Emma has assaulted her with TP. Ultimate Jean is supposedly weaker than Lil Jean in raw power, which means she's weaker than Emma too, and Emma is probably more skilled than her (I dont know how skilled ult jean is) so she would probably be stuck in a TP battle which she would lose. Unless she has the PF which I guess she someone can make the case she wins, but I don't recall her TP feats so I won't call a winner on that
@marvelfan1992: Lol my point was your scaling her down based on low showings. Emma's diamond form took hits from WWH. I dont care what nonsense Medusa's hair does it doesnt mean anything against her other feats.
If we scale them off of the Jeen statement, then this seriously is a curbstomp. But assuming she is as comparable to Emma as shes presented to be, then shes powerful enough to start getting beat up and use some of her many multitasking feats to knock Emma down long enough to try to recover.
Idk about Phoenix. Ultimate comics X-Men had her doing something weird in the final showdown with Kitty... but who knows.
@koays: ah I see. you should have just said they are low showings for her Diamond form and I would have gotten it lol. wtf jean's final showdown in the series is vs kitty? She goes from fighting apocalypse and being attacked by silver surfer to having a final showdown vs kitty?
@koays: yikes. I really have to read past ultimatum
why yes, but don't you know, nitpicking feats and twisting them to fit one's needs is the most valuable debating skill on here. I learn from the best, our one true master. But yeah, with Magneto doing it too I thought they felt like knocking her durability down a peg. Is there/will there be a diamond form section on her RT?
@marvelfan1992: @koays: I do believe that Emma wins, but I don't believe we can just scale off teen Jean.
-they said raw power. Even Emma doesn't have raw power on the level as teen Jean. 70s miniskirt Jean grey was said to have infinite power (lmao)
-anyways Jeen has a pis win over Cosmic shard Emma :P
Ultimate Jean has skill,, it just won't be enough to win. I think a better fight would be Wolverine and the X-Men Rachel or current Psylocke.
@marvelfan1992: @koays: I do believe that Emma wins, but I don't believe we can just scale off teen Jean.
-they said raw power. Even Emma doesn't have raw power on the level as teen Jean. 70s miniskirt Jean grey was said to have infinite power (lmao)
-anyways Jeen has a pis win over Cosmic shard Emma :P
Ultimate Jean has skill,, it just won't be enough to win. I think a better fight would be Wolverine and the X-Men Rachel or current Psylocke.
uh oh, i've seen koays school people for saying this
@del_torro@marvelfan1992: eh....Cosmic shard is nonsense that i still havent bothered to check out.
Hes scaling off of INFINITE power miniskirt Jean, what can I say in response?
Except maybe Stryfe has no....wait no, I mean, Teen Jean has no feats on Emma's level.
Ultimate Jean is weak, Emma Stomps
Ultimate Jean is weak, Emma Stomps
Considering your name is Emma, I can see why you say something as silly as that.
Ultimate Jean is weak, Emma Stomps
I love to see ya try to defend how she wins :) not that you will try, you only look foolish in the end.
@thewatcherking: I think Emma wins, but not I a stomp. Jean will give her a good fight.
U.Jean is highly skilled and the top telepath in her verse, has planetary level telepthy feats, was able to get into 616 galactus mind with cerebro to spy on him (something classic Xavier couldn't do, and Stormcell said classic Xavier is stronger than current X)
Her feats are skilled and casual, but there's like 4 Telepaths in ultimate universe, so she doesn't have the combat feats to rank her against Emma. Plus it's canon that 616 Jean has more raw power than her
Jean wrecks. Emma does not even hold a candle to Jeans feats lmao.
Jean scans the world for attackers. Finds them easy.
In this scan Jean is coordinating a fight, and then at the same time searches the world for Scott and the other X-men fighting their own separate battle, and does both actions at the same time.
Ultimate Jean was clear equals with 616 Jean by Secret Wars time frame. Thats not for debate. they were equal and both pass out from strain of reading the other. Equals.
Jean TK is enough to raise miles of land, and disintegrate it on the atomic level. Radiation and all.
Jean taps her Phoenix powers to freeze time around her and bring her father soul from the dead to converse with for advice.
Jean here uses her TK to repair a whole city of damage, revert the strongest mutant on earth Apaklypse into a harmless form, and then mind wipes the world of the event. All in a single panel and flash of light.
Jean travels across the known universe scaning all worlds she flies by of their thoughts looking for heaven. She scans most of the universe in months at these speeds, and stops at the edge of the universe against Silver Searcher and a army of Watchers. She then psychically guides herself home in one week from the edge of the Universe.
In this INSANE feat of TP, we have 3 scans of events happening at the same time. Scan 1 has Jean telepathically projecting her self in a ship rescue with her X-Men, though she is not there, yet she is stated projecting she is there for the whole world to see on cameras and TVs. Scan 2 has her at the same time visiting SHIELD and Fury while projecting this image to the world, and Fury had TP defenses up at the time. Scan 3 shows Jean fooled both the world and SHIELD as she was mentally projecting in both areas. She was in reality back in Asia with Omega Psychic Xorn, whom Jean was mentally shielding her thoughts from while mentally affecting the world in Scan 1 and by passing TP shields of Scan 2 at the same time evading the mental probes of Xorn!!!! Hot damn!
Emma is so outclass, its not even funny. Total mismatch.
im pretty sure Emma locks her in a telepathy battle and wins
I know you and I have many heated fights in the past but look at the feats and please show me ONE just one of Emma scanning the known universe for someone, moving FTL in TP thought reading, or doing the crazy shit of mind wiping the world several times over as Ultimate had done.
That not accounting freezing time, pulling souls from death, or flat out atomic level manipulation on TK level that manipulate cities at a time.
So who really wins here?
@tourneymaster: finally seeing some feats for ultimate Jean! thanks for the scans, it's been so long since I read ultimate x-men. Although correct me if i'm wrong, but the phoenix being a part of her own power evolving was a hoax and it is still a god/cosmic entity in the ultimate universe. in which case, everything you posted aside from the Karen scans and the 616 teen jean scans were Phoenix amped Jean (pls correct me if wrong) so I suppose not applicable to standard ultimate Jean. Also the scan you posted of ultimate Jean being equal to 616 Jean, yeah that's teen Jean who is really not comparable to adult 616 Jean and who is also way below Emma, so that doesn't help your case. Also later on they say in that arc that 616 teen jean is more powerful than ultimate jean, so again I would not use her comparison to 616 teen jean to make a case ultimate jean.
The Karen scans are great though. What issue did this happen in? Would love to check it out
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