Since Grundy is sometimes compared to the Hulk, I wondered how he might fare against a version of Hulk who is more like him? Fight is in a deserted version of Chicago. Grundy is New Earth version, mid-tier showings (as in, its not Grundy at his weakest when Batman and Green Arrow can beat him in melee).
Which nastier Hulk wins?
Vs.
@ouroborik: powerhouses like Ult Captain America?
Cap is a power house. Cap KOed Juggernaut twice, Warmachine, tank Thor best strikes, Zarda best strikes, tank 616 Cap Marvel blasts, beat on 616 Miss America, ect feats. Not that Cap ever beat Ultimate Hulk. At best phase him and Hulk playing dead long enough to catch Cap and the syringe he was going to use off guard.
Not according to the official bio you used on the Ultimate Hulk Vs. Weapon H thread:
He seems like a low-mid tier according to those.
@ouroborik: powerhouses like Ult Captain America?
Cap is a power house. Cap KOed Juggernaut twice, Warmachine, tank Thor best strikes, Zarda best strikes, tank 616 Cap Marvel blasts, beat on 616 Miss America, ect feats. Not that Cap ever beat Ultimate Hulk. At best phase him and Hulk playing dead long enough to catch Cap and the syringe he was going to use off guard.
Not according to the official bio you used on the Ultimate Hulk Vs. Weapon H thread:
He seems like a low-mid tier according to those.
A "low-mid tier" whose best stat is striking strength attacking the Hulk with surgical precision and an adamantium-like weapon, after the Hulk had already been hurt and tired fighting Iron Man. The Hulk fell for a few seconds but then got up and defeated Cap.
How exactly is this a low-showing for anyone?
Heck, if you ask me Ultimate Captain would win a standard fight against Solomon Grundy.
@professorrespect: Yeah, I know his fluctuating power levels are deliberate. In the OP I specified it was "Mid-Tier" Grundy, neither sub-Batman/GA level, nor JSA buster level.
JSA-busting isn't exactly a solid measure of power IMO. The JSA is ridiculously inconsistent, in the same issue you'll see a villain fighting both high-tiers like Alan Scott and street-levelers like Wildcat. And somehow the street-levelers never seem to suffer any significant damage from those team-busting villains, and even land significant attacks.
IIRC correctly there's an issue in the early Geoff Johns/David Goyer run where Wildcat solos an entire team of JSA supervillains. That's how bad the powerscaling around the JSA is.
OT: Hulk wins against standard Grundy. Only specific "stronger than normal" versions of Grundy should win against someone of this caliber.
@twrtwrtw:Thats nice. Rating level of 4 means Superhuman: Able to lift between 800 lbs. and 25 tons, and only applies to lifting strength not striking strength.
Cap and Moondragon clash blows with such force a massive shockwave explodes around them, blasting the other Moondragon clones away.
Cap casually catches a large tree in the multi ton range, and its momentum to save a military truck.
Cap lifting and throwing around several ton stones.
Cap lifting a object made of solid ground, concrete, and car on top looking for survivors. A easy 20 ton bulldozer's worth of effort.
Stalemates Peter Parker who is a casual 6-10 toner by bios. Both are visibly shaking with effort of trying to overpower the other. Peter has feats like flinging a water flooded car one hand thousands of feats. Feats like lifting and slamming a ton moving truck like a baseball bat.
Catches Valkyries fist, even though she is Asgardian in strength, and she has block blows from a blood lusted Thor with no problem with great effort.
Cap overpowers out of the hold of these super suit soldiers. These soldiers are shown on panel that it only takes dozen or so of them to tip over the Statue of Liberty with their strength in a small time frame. Statue of liberty total weight is 225 tons. Divide that by the five on panel lifting the foot and tipping it over, thats pretty crazy strong.
Ultimate Cap KOed at the time the by bio 80 toner Ultimate Juggs with a single kick to the face first time they met.
Cap here takes a savage beating from post Cytorakk Juggernaut, stated 100+ toner by bio, with no ill effects or injury. After all this, and Juggs is knock down by a 30 ton dinosaur, no damage to Jugs physically, Cap with a single attack KOes Juggernaut rest o the fight.
Cap physically stuns Ultimate Hulk. That happen. It was a combination of skill and strength. While Hulk was only stun for a easy 10 count, this feat still happen.
Cap did this with ease again on the clone Nerd Hulk with a single kick to the balls.
Cap embarrassed 60+ ton in feats Giant Man in a straight up fight. Busting his face up with a kick. Dragging Pym down into slams.
Cap with just his shield decimated Ultimate Warmachine and took his arm cannon as payment. All under 10 seconds. Same Warmachine whose armor takes earthquake causing blows from Tyron Cash.
Cap also matched Heir Kleiser well. A massively super strong and durable being who knew Caps moves inside and out. Kleiser is able to smash in reinforce, and super think bunker doors like a joke. Dozen tons of strength and force for this guy. Then after that, Kleiser tanks a full on fighter jet hitting him, and smashing him in Jet Fuel for a major blast of super heated flames. He is merely upset. Kleiser here tanks many blows from murderous Hulk, and smashes Hulk with a easy 10+ ton military cargo truck. In this whole battle we see the skill level, and crazy regen of Kleiser, even having his head nearly blown off, or cut in half.
Cap in the Ultimates fight is shown to take a Carrol Danvers blast to the back, then followed up by a enraged Miss America blow to the face with no damage. Miss America is a casual 50 toner, Carrol Danvers is a high tier energy blaster, and both thought this Cap was evil working with Ultimate Reed Richards. No reason they held back.
Ultimate Abomination was stated stronger than Ultimate Hulk was per the first Ultimates run. Slamming Cap with a haymaker, and throwing him through a wall, but Cap is still fight worthy shape.
Cap is caught in a brutal beating by the 100+ ton, murdering cannibal that is Hulk. Not only is Cap never KOed after the beating, but he stays on scene to taunt Hulk and goad Hulk. All the while directing the fight.
Blocks a fatal attack by Zarda , who is Hyperion's equal in the Supreme verse. Unlike 616 Steve's shield, 1610 Steve's shield does not disperse kinetic force, its all Caps muscles and strength holding the shield against that blow.
Cap locked blows with God Thor's attack. A attack that was strong enough to send Steve flying across the city and through a building. steve is not harmed at all, and shows the strength to block the force of the blow physically.
As seen super suit Thor's best blows will physically rupture and break bones of Hulk. As well wipe out multiple city blocks in a single attack. This is what Cap tanked in his block. Captain America manages to block super suit using Thor's best strike meant to kill Cap. Cap was KOed after this for a short time though. This attack wipe out part of the forest from the shockwave and Cap again has no Vibranium Shield here, its a Asgardian metal shield backed by Caps own strength tanking the blows force.
Captain America suffered no physical damage from this Iron Man suit bull rush of a slam. He was KOed, but it should be noted at the time Cap had tons of tranqs pumped in him, as well took multiple blows from super suit wearing SHIELD agents, all which likely played a role for sure.
Ultimate Cap slammed by a charging Warmachine through a city bridge, and is not KO at all. He was still fighting, and had no damage to him.
One of Caps better feats has him tank multiple grenades exploding in his face, followed by being shown caught in the atomic bombs blast wave, and finishes off a super speedy fall of 1000s of feet into what would be concrete hard surface of the ocean. Cap still survives all this plus being frozen for 50+ years after all this.
So yeah Ultimate Cap hits and gets hit well above street level paygrade.
I can also post Hulks calcs and actual stand alone feats (no scaling required) and compare Grundy's own.
The Triskelion is stated durable enough to withstand nuclear attacks. The Triskelion also showed durable enough to withstand 616 versions She Hulk, Colossus, and Doc Savage Hulk slamming through it, and it still is operational. Yet, Hulk manages to smash the Triskelion in one massive blast and steal the Infinity Gauntlet in the process for Reed Richards.
Hulk shrugging off Super Suit Thor's best attacks again, attacks that take out portion of the city in one charge up attack. Then Hulk disarms Thor of his hammer and beats Thor senseless with it.
Hulk beat down Nightmare, the Fear Lord who was reality warping the city block around Banner at the time. Then the magical explosion of the magical force of Ultimate Hulk killing Nightmare is seen compared to the city. Hulk is shown to be fine, but pissed off.
Hulk is blown away by a stated Megaton Nuke.
Hulk again jumps in the path of a Megaton Nuke, and clearly is never knocked out as he escapes faster than SHIELD with satellites could track him.
Hulk stated and shown with one attack wreck a city in India. The comic came out Dec 2005. The last major earthquake in India was September 2005. A 5.0 earthquake. Thats 32 Kiloton of TNT force to generate a 5.0 quake which Hulk did one a single shown rage attack from a phone call.
In this feat Hulk causes 8.9 earthquakes from having sex with She Hulk. Not fighting, but causing 8.9s by simply screwing Betty. For scale of reference, a 8.9 earthquake is equal to 340 megatons of TNT. For more reference, what does a 9,0 do to the earth? Antarctic Ice shatter a world away practically. Atmosphere was rattled as scientist observed. Earths day was shorten by a microsecond. Scientist found Gravity was altered where the Quake struck. It moved Earth's Axis mate. It shifted a county of japan by 2 meters. That is the strength Ultimate Hulk's having sex with She Hulk. As seen in 616 Universe Juggernaut best hits range in the 8.0 scale, and 616 Universe Red Hulk hits in the 9.0 in scale at his best.
So what feats can we compare without scaling?
Reed and his children have done what exactly? Beaten featless fodder Ultimate Asgard?
LMAO
Oopsy you must forgotten how Reed practically solo your precious 616 team with his children army and tech. Yet he could not deal with Hulk.
He didn't beat Squadrom Supreme, he acted as a punching bag, he took out bunch of fodder, fought other fodder, etc... fodder this, fodder that.
So easy to claim fodder have insane high feats on the continental level.
He never beat a fully powered Thor, not that Ultimate Thor isn't trash either.
Uh huh, he pretty much stalemated Worthy Thor and survive what BRB couldnt in Secret wars and his hammer empowered War Thor and his feats. Try again.
@ouroborik: powerhouses like Ult Captain America?
Cap is a power house. Cap KOed Juggernaut twice, Warmachine, tank Thor best strikes, Zarda best strikes, tank 616 Cap Marvel blasts, beat on 616 Miss America, ect feats. Not that Cap ever beat Ultimate Hulk. At best phase him and Hulk playing dead long enough to catch Cap and the syringe he was going to use off guard.
Not according to the official bio you used on the Ultimate Hulk Vs. Weapon H thread:
He seems like a low-mid tier according to those.
A "low-mid tier" whose best stat is striking strength attacking the Hulk with surgical precision and an adamantium-like weapon, after the Hulk had already been hurt and tired fighting Iron Man. The Hulk fell for a few seconds but then got up and defeated Cap.
How exactly is this a low-showing for anyone?
Ult Hulk has regen, I don't see why any damage inflicted by Iron Man would make a difference. Also, Hulk tanked a megaton nuke. How should someone like Cap even be capable of nose bleeding him?
I'm not siding with Grundy btw.
Ultimate Hulk.
He is a consistent powerhouse of the Ultimate Universe, most of his "low-showings" I know of are just him losing to other powerhouses (who would probably wipe the floor with Grundy).
The "power houses" he loses to are also garbage.
All the "power houses" in 1610 are weaker than their 616 counter parts so this isn't saying much.
"Ultimate characters are weaker than 616 characters" is one of the most boring-ass, overused and annoying go-to comments in these threads.
What the hell does it matter if 1610 characters are weaker than 616 characters? They're still more powerful than Grundy.
Why exactly is Ultimate Thor "garbage"? Or Ultimate Spider-Man or Ultimate Goblin or any of those guys? Because you said so? Because there isn't enough planet-busting in the 1610 universe?
Get outta here with those ignorant generalizations and start judging characters by what they are and not by some narrow-minded sweeping statement.
@ouroborik: powerhouses like Ult Captain America?
Cap is a power house. Cap KOed Juggernaut twice, Warmachine, tank Thor best strikes, Zarda best strikes, tank 616 Cap Marvel blasts, beat on 616 Miss America, ect feats. Not that Cap ever beat Ultimate Hulk. At best phase him and Hulk playing dead long enough to catch Cap and the syringe he was going to use off guard.
Not according to the official bio you used on the Ultimate Hulk Vs. Weapon H thread:
He seems like a low-mid tier according to those.
A "low-mid tier" whose best stat is striking strength attacking the Hulk with surgical precision and an adamantium-like weapon, after the Hulk had already been hurt and tired fighting Iron Man. The Hulk fell for a few seconds but then got up and defeated Cap.
How exactly is this a low-showing for anyone?
Ult Hulk has regen, I don't see why any damage inflicted by Iron Man would make a difference. Also, Hulk tanked a megaton nuke. How should someone like Cap even be capable of nose bleeding him?
I'm not siding with Grundy btw.
Regeneration and stamina/endurance are not the same thing. Never have been.
It's perfectly normal for a character with regeneration to start feeling tired or overtaxed during a fight.
Not only that but Ult Hulk's regeneration in that issue was specifically shown to not kick in immediately (see how he was fully taken down by Thor before recovering and beating him).
What Cap did to Hulk was pretty much a smaller scale version of what happened with Thor. Cap took him down (for just a few seconds, he didn't even have time to stuck a needle in the Hulk), the Hulk recovered his composure and beat him.
As for how Cap can hurt Hulk, there's really not much that can be said besides the obvious. Cap was just straight up strong enough to stagger the Hulk at that point, before the Hulk got even stronger.
I'm not saying that the Hulk at that point was his nuke-tanking self but the intention of the writing and art is clearly that Captain America's well-placed attacks were as impactful as being smashed through walls by Iron Man. Iron Man had literally just bullrushed Hulk through solid ground, blasted him with all the energy left in his suit and then Cap dropped a tank on him. And then we saw Cap visibly staggering Hulk with his blows. If the writer and artist didn't want to make Cap look so strong they would have placed him earlier in the fight before Hulk tanked all that damage.
Ultimate Cap is just that strong.
Now, I'd say it's debatable whether Cap really did give Hulk a nose-bleed (pretty sure the Hulk was already puking and bleeding all over from Iron Man's attacks) but that Cap was meant to have attacks as significant as a bull-rush from Ultimate Iron Man, I don't see much doubt. Do remember that Cap wasn't even afraid to fight Thor in Ultimates 2 (although Thor seemed to be 100% sure he could destroy Cap if he wanted to).
@ouroborik: powerhouses like Ult Captain America?
Cap is a power house. Cap KOed Juggernaut twice, Warmachine, tank Thor best strikes, Zarda best strikes, tank 616 Cap Marvel blasts, beat on 616 Miss America, ect feats. Not that Cap ever beat Ultimate Hulk. At best phase him and Hulk playing dead long enough to catch Cap and the syringe he was going to use off guard.
Not according to the official bio you used on the Ultimate Hulk Vs. Weapon H thread:
He seems like a low-mid tier according to those.
A "low-mid tier" whose best stat is striking strength attacking the Hulk with surgical precision and an adamantium-like weapon, after the Hulk had already been hurt and tired fighting Iron Man. The Hulk fell for a few seconds but then got up and defeated Cap.
How exactly is this a low-showing for anyone?
Ult Hulk has regen, I don't see why any damage inflicted by Iron Man would make a difference. Also, Hulk tanked a megaton nuke. How should someone like Cap even be capable of nose bleeding him?
I'm not siding with Grundy btw.
Regeneration and stamina/endurance are not the same thing. Never have been.
It's perfectly normal for a character with regeneration to start feeling tired or overtaxed during a fight.
Never saided they were the same thing. But since the comic didn't even bother to point this out, there's no reason to think that was relevant factor at all.
Not only that but Ult Hulk's regeneration in that issue was specifically shown to not kick in immediately (see how he was fully taken down by Thor before recovering and beating him).
Ult Thor broke his jaw, cracked his ribs and punctured one of his lungs. In the exact next page Ult Hulk is perfectly fine and even laughts at any damage inflicted by Thor:
^Going by the writer and artist intent (as you did), the scans above pretty much prove that his healing can kick in immediately.
What Cap did to Hulk was pretty much a smaller scale version of what happened with Thor. Cap took him down (for just a few seconds, he didn't even have time to stuck a needle in the Hulk), the Hulk recovered his composure and beat him.
You missed the part were Ult Hulk didn't had any visible wound nor seemed bothered by any pain those attacks could've inflicted on him.
As for how Cap can hurt Hulk, there's really not much that can be said besides the obvious. Cap was just straight up strong enough to stagger the Hulk at that point, before the Hulk got even stronger.
Hulk tanked 3 consecutives strikes from mjolnir right after facing Cap. Unless you think Steve is as strong as Ult Thor, there's no way for the former logically hurt Hulk.
I'm not saying that the Hulk at that point was his nuke-tanking self
Hulk tanked the nuke right after transforming, it took seconds for him to reach his nuke-tanking level:
but the intention of the writing and art is clearly that Captain America's well-placed attacks were as impactful as being smashed through walls by Iron Man. Iron Man had literally just bullrushed Hulk through solid ground, blasted him with all the energy left in his suit and then Cap dropped a tank on him. And then we saw Cap visibly staggering Hulk with his blows. If the writer and artist didn't want to make Cap look so strong they would have placed him earlier in the fight before Hulk tanked all that damage.
Irrelevant compared to the nuke feat I posted above.
Ultimate Cap is just that strong.
Or either he has the writer's favoritism. Not much different from earth 616 Cap, tbf.
Now, I'd say it's debatable whether Cap really did give Hulk a nose-bleed (pretty sure the Hulk was already puking and bleeding all over from Iron Man's attacks)
There wasn't a single drop of blood on him before fighting Ult Cap:
^There isn't much debate, as you can see.
but that Cap was meant to have attacks as significant as a bull-rush from Ultimate Iron Man, I don't see much doubt.
Cool.
Do remember that Cap wasn't even afraid to fight Thor in Ultimates 2 (although Thor seemed to be 100% sure he could destroy Cap if he wanted to).
Having guts ≠ having the strength
@twrtwrtw:Thats nice. Rating level of 4 means Superhuman: Able to lift between 800 lbs. and 25 tons, and only applies to lifting strength not striking strength.
There's rarely a distinction when it comes to comic book writing. But even if that was the case, the stuff you posted for Ult Cap doesn't even sugest he can harm a guy that can survive a megaton nuke. Plus those feats are contradicting the official bio, should I take that as a concession for your comments on the Ultimate Hulk Vs. Weapon H thread?
Whats contradictory? Or are you trying to simp for Professor Respect?
Not once I said Ultimate Adamantium is impossible to break. Same applies for 616. That whole argument is base if Ultimate Adamantium is weaker than 616 and nothing suggest it is. both only broken outright by molecular manipulation of Magneto Omega abilities over metal.
Did you just try and failed at a "got ya" moment just now?
@twrtwrtw:Thats nice. Rating level of 4 means Superhuman: Able to lift between 800 lbs. and 25 tons, and only applies to lifting strength not striking strength.
There's rarely a distinction when it comes to comic book writing. But even if that was the case, the stuff you posted for Ult Cap doesn't even sugest he can harm a guy that can survive a megaton nuke. Plus those feats are contradicting the official bio, should I take that as a concession for your comments on the Ultimate Hulk Vs. Weapon H thread?
Seems like the argument appears to be "statements only matter when they agree with what I'm saying" etc, definitely not heard that one before.
Uh yes, lol, statements matter when they are supported by feats as well consistency. Thats how debating works.
Ultimate Hulk.
He is a consistent powerhouse of the Ultimate Universe, most of his "low-showings" I know of are just him losing to other powerhouses (who would probably wipe the floor with Grundy).
The "power houses" he loses to are also garbage.
All the "power houses" in 1610 are weaker than their 616 counter parts so this isn't saying much.
"Ultimate characters are weaker than 616 characters" is one of the most boring-ass, overused and annoying go-to comments in these threads.
What the hell does it matter if 1610 characters are weaker than 616 characters? They're still more powerful than Grundy.
Why exactly is Ultimate Thor "garbage"? Or Ultimate Spider-Man or Ultimate Goblin or any of those guys? Because you said so? Because there isn't enough planet-busting in the 1610 universe?
Get outta here with those ignorant generalizations and start judging characters by what they are and not by some narrow-minded sweeping statement.
@ouroborik: powerhouses like Ult Captain America?
Cap is a power house. Cap KOed Juggernaut twice, Warmachine, tank Thor best strikes, Zarda best strikes, tank 616 Cap Marvel blasts, beat on 616 Miss America, ect feats. Not that Cap ever beat Ultimate Hulk. At best phase him and Hulk playing dead long enough to catch Cap and the syringe he was going to use off guard.
Not according to the official bio you used on the Ultimate Hulk Vs. Weapon H thread:
He seems like a low-mid tier according to those.
A "low-mid tier" whose best stat is striking strength attacking the Hulk with surgical precision and an adamantium-like weapon, after the Hulk had already been hurt and tired fighting Iron Man. The Hulk fell for a few seconds but then got up and defeated Cap.
How exactly is this a low-showing for anyone?
Ult Hulk has regen, I don't see why any damage inflicted by Iron Man would make a difference. Also, Hulk tanked a megaton nuke. How should someone like Cap even be capable of nose bleeding him?
I'm not siding with Grundy btw.
Regeneration and stamina/endurance are not the same thing. Never have been.
It's perfectly normal for a character with regeneration to start feeling tired or overtaxed during a fight.
Not only that but Ult Hulk's regeneration in that issue was specifically shown to not kick in immediately (see how he was fully taken down by Thor before recovering and beating him).
What Cap did to Hulk was pretty much a smaller scale version of what happened with Thor. Cap took him down (for just a few seconds, he didn't even have time to stuck a needle in the Hulk), the Hulk recovered his composure and beat him.
As for how Cap can hurt Hulk, there's really not much that can be said besides the obvious. Cap was just straight up strong enough to stagger the Hulk at that point, before the Hulk got even stronger.
I'm not saying that the Hulk at that point was his nuke-tanking self but the intention of the writing and art is clearly that Captain America's well-placed attacks were as impactful as being smashed through walls by Iron Man. Iron Man had literally just bullrushed Hulk through solid ground, blasted him with all the energy left in his suit and then Cap dropped a tank on him. And then we saw Cap visibly staggering Hulk with his blows. If the writer and artist didn't want to make Cap look so strong they would have placed him earlier in the fight before Hulk tanked all that damage.
Ultimate Cap is just that strong.
Now, I'd say it's debatable whether Cap really did give Hulk a nose-bleed (pretty sure the Hulk was already puking and bleeding all over from Iron Man's attacks) but that Cap was meant to have attacks as significant as a bull-rush from Ultimate Iron Man, I don't see much doubt. Do remember that Cap wasn't even afraid to fight Thor in Ultimates 2 (although Thor seemed to be 100% sure he could destroy Cap if he wanted to).
@ouroborik: powerhouses like Ult Captain America?
Cap is a power house. Cap KOed Juggernaut twice, Warmachine, tank Thor best strikes, Zarda best strikes, tank 616 Cap Marvel blasts, beat on 616 Miss America, ect feats. Not that Cap ever beat Ultimate Hulk. At best phase him and Hulk playing dead long enough to catch Cap and the syringe he was going to use off guard.
Not according to the official bio you used on the Ultimate Hulk Vs. Weapon H thread:
He seems like a low-mid tier according to those.
A "low-mid tier" whose best stat is striking strength attacking the Hulk with surgical precision and an adamantium-like weapon, after the Hulk had already been hurt and tired fighting Iron Man. The Hulk fell for a few seconds but then got up and defeated Cap.
How exactly is this a low-showing for anyone?
Ult Hulk has regen, I don't see why any damage inflicted by Iron Man would make a difference. Also, Hulk tanked a megaton nuke. How should someone like Cap even be capable of nose bleeding him?
I'm not siding with Grundy btw.
Regeneration and stamina/endurance are not the same thing. Never have been.
It's perfectly normal for a character with regeneration to start feeling tired or overtaxed during a fight.
Never saided they were the same thing. But since the comic didn't even bother to point this out, there's no reason to think that was relevant factor at all.
Not only that but Ult Hulk's regeneration in that issue was specifically shown to not kick in immediately (see how he was fully taken down by Thor before recovering and beating him).
Ult Thor broke his jaw, cracked his ribs and punctured one of his lungs. In the exact next page Ult Hulk is perfectly fine and even laughts at any damage inflicted by Thor:
^Going by the writer and artist intent (as you did), the scans above pretty much prove that his healing can kick in immediately.
What Cap did to Hulk was pretty much a smaller scale version of what happened with Thor. Cap took him down (for just a few seconds, he didn't even have time to stuck a needle in the Hulk), the Hulk recovered his composure and beat him.
You missed the part were Ult Hulk didn't had any visible wound nor seemed bothered by any pain those attacks could've inflicted on him.
As for how Cap can hurt Hulk, there's really not much that can be said besides the obvious. Cap was just straight up strong enough to stagger the Hulk at that point, before the Hulk got even stronger.
Hulk tanked 3 consecutives strikes from mjolnir right after facing Cap. Unless you think Steve is as strong as Ult Thor, there's no way for the former logically hurt Hulk.
I'm not saying that the Hulk at that point was his nuke-tanking self
Hulk tanked the nuke right after transforming, it took seconds for him to reach his nuke-tanking level:
but the intention of the writing and art is clearly that Captain America's well-placed attacks were as impactful as being smashed through walls by Iron Man. Iron Man had literally just bullrushed Hulk through solid ground, blasted him with all the energy left in his suit and then Cap dropped a tank on him. And then we saw Cap visibly staggering Hulk with his blows. If the writer and artist didn't want to make Cap look so strong they would have placed him earlier in the fight before Hulk tanked all that damage.
Irrelevant compared to the nuke feat I posted above.
Ultimate Cap is just that strong.
Or either he has the writer's favoritism. Not much different from earth 616 Cap, tbf.
Now, I'd say it's debatable whether Cap really did give Hulk a nose-bleed (pretty sure the Hulk was already puking and bleeding all over from Iron Man's attacks)
There wasn't a single drop of blood on him before fighting Ult Cap:
^There isn't much debate, as you can see.
but that Cap was meant to have attacks as significant as a bull-rush from Ultimate Iron Man, I don't see much doubt.
Cool.
Do remember that Cap wasn't even afraid to fight Thor in Ultimates 2 (although Thor seemed to be 100% sure he could destroy Cap if he wanted to).
Having guts ≠ having the strength
I'm enjoying this debate and I don't mean to be antagonistic but there's a lot of nonsense going in here.
Never saided they were the same thing. But since the comic didn't even bother to point this out, there's no reason to think that was relevant factor at all.
What do you mean "the comic never bothered to point this out"?
It's an action narrative, not an encyclopedia. And it's written by Mark Millar, a writer who generally expects his readers to do some of the work. He's showing you the story and expecting you to catch up by observation, he isn't trying to hold your hand. He learned under Grant Morrsion after all.
The comic also NEVER addresses what exactly are the Iron Man's suit abilities (you only physically see his attacks twice during the entire series and it's never acknowledged by anyone in the narrative), never shows who was it that forced the Chitauri into retreat to Earth, never explains what are Black Widow's artificial enhancements, and so on and so on. That's part of the fun, having to figure out things for yourself.
Going by the writer and artist intent (as you did), the scans above pretty much prove that his healing can kick in immediately.
I seriously don't get what's your point here. Thor beat down Hulk for a few panels, the Hulk was down long enough for Thor to deliver that speech about his wounds and then Hulk healed and beat Thor back.
I literally addressed this exact scene in my previous comment:
"see how he was fully taken down by Thor before recovering and beating him"
That's the exact same thing that happened with Captain America except with Captain America it happened even faster. So why exactly do you consider the Thor instance healing fast but not the Captain America instance? It's the exact same thing. Cap dropped a tank on the Hulk, took him down with a few attacks and then Hulk got up and beat him back.
There's no difference except that Thor is stronger, which can very well be explained simply by Hulk growing stronger.
Hulk tanked 3 consecutives strikes from mjolnir right after facing Cap. Unless you think Steve is as strong as Ult Thor, there's no way for the former logically hurt Hulk.
I might as well be arguing with a wall here.
Y E S, I do think Ultimate Captain America is meant to have striking strength on the casual rock-busting level. And last time I checked, that is consistently the level of strength needed for any character below Superman/Thor-level to get staggered by attacks. Add to that an indestructible shield and it's fully internally consistent for Hulk to fall when taken by surprise with a barrage of attacks, before getting back up with no significant damage taken.
Is this seriously that confusing for you? Do you also nitpick every instance where 616 Spider-Man holds his own against the Hulk for a few pages?
You missed the part were Ult Hulk didn't had any visible wound nor seemed bothered by any pain those attacks could've inflicted on him.
Seriously, what?
At this point, are you arguing that Hulk took damage, did not take damage, should not have taken damage?
I don't get what you're arguing here.
Hulk tanked the nuke right after transforming, it took seconds for him to reach his nuke-tanking level:
Wait, this is the nuke scene you keep talking about?
This nuke scene isn't that impressive. Hulk was running away. Banner was meant to be unsconscious so that the blast would kill him instantly but Hank Pym (IIRC) didn't have the courage to kill him, probably out of guilt for tormenting Banner, so Banner woke up and transformed before the nuke exploded. Logically he was already far away from the bomb itself the moment it exploded.
Ultimate Cap has a similar feat in his first appearance. He also jumped out of an aircraft that exploded with a nuke inside and survived the blast wave.
Anyway, Hulk did tank a nuke in the Ultimate Wolverine vs Hulk comic so I agree that his durability his enough to survive nukes. Just makes Cap more impressive.
Or either he has the writer's favoritism. Not much different from earth 616 Cap, tbf.
Dude, the writer of these comics CREATED Ultimate Captain America. He is the one who defined how strong Ultimate Cap is. If he wrote Ultimate Cap fighting Hulk, that's just how strong Ultimate Cap was meant to be from the very beginning.
Hell, if he wrote Ultimate Cap trading equal blows with Thor it would still be acceptable. Because, and I repeat, he was the one who created these characters. He was the one who got to define how strong each of them was.
It's not "favoritism", it's what the writer meant for the character to be. He wanted Captain America to be an actual SUPER-soldier capable of going in headfirst into fights alongside Thor and Iron Man. He didn't meant for his version of Captain America to be a comic-book "peak-human" like the 616 version.
There wasn't a single drop of blood on him before fighting Ult Cap:
^There isn't much debate, as you can see.
Yes, there is a lot of debate to be had, actually.
You are completely ignoring that Hulk was standing all wet in the middle of the rain and that any drop of blood he had on him from the Iron Man fight got washed away immediately. How about you look at the panels before he got in the rain?
Better yet, how about you look at how Captain America's physical equal was able to visibly crack his teeth by throwing a truck at his face?
Or how about we just concentrate on the fact that Cap's equal is strong enough to THROW AROUND TRUCKS and agree that these characters are just that strong?
I really don't see any reason of debate here other than the fact that you seem not to like the notion of a version of Captain America being a powerhouse in his own right.
Well, the ones advocating for him are not very keen on actually pulling out the feats they feel relevant and parallell to the stipulations per the OP.
Knowing PR, he'll post one scan of Grundys defensive feats, scale that to his damage output and tell us to read a respect thread instead :)
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