Ultimate Harry Potter vs Middle Earth Team Battle

Middle Earth team. Harry Potter team can't do anything to the Witch King, and Gandalf and the Balrog's fight split the side of a Mountain. Gandalf at the time was weaker than Saruman. Also Galadriel destroyed Dol Guldur. So the Middle Earth team has the Harry Potter team outclassed in power and I'm not sure if the Killing Curse would even be able to put down Gandalf and Saruman for good. The Harry Potter Wizards could pretty much all beat Thranduil though.

Voldemort solos with crazy op hax.

I am 100% serious

@amendment50: Really? Could you elaborate please?

@lastnickleft: Voldemort just uses the killing curse five times. He can fly and apparate so it's not like he wont be able to do it. And I can think of no good reason why it wouldn't work on them.

@amendment50: Well, I also think that the killing curse would work on them, at least most of them, most of the time (with the exception perhaps of the Witch-King). However, I think you are not considering other factors, such as speed, surprise, physical damage and the magic skills of the other team. I mean, I think that if the killing curse hits, it will work, but there are many factors for it to happen. Also, the fact that Voldemort is able to fly does not mean he will have a radar for every member of the other team. I'll post some videos of Middle Earth magic abilities.

Voldy and Albus could probably out hax the middle earth team, assuming the Middle Earth wizards can't use their full power (otherwise they would be comparable to Sauron) and didn't get spam ressureccted by the God of the LotR-Verse. Just glad that OP didn't add Sauron because he would solo, but the Witch King could be difficult to deal with.

@decaf_wizard: Yes, there was no purpose on adding Sauron. And yes, the wizards can't use their full power, still caged in the bodies and the limits imposed.

@valarmelkor: I'm not sure, I think that the killing curse could work even on the wizards, just killing the body, of course. I think that the real issue would not be the effectivity, but the fact that it actually hits the target.
Regarding Thranduil, I do think that he is the weaker in magic skills (even though he possesses magic, as stated in the book), but he is, no doubt, physically the most powerful and swifter. Perhaps the magic for Thranduil here would not be anything offensive, but resistance, dodging or something of that ilk, while the swords do the work. I do believe that it would not be enough for Dumbledore or Voldemort, but perhaps could work on Harry, Snape and Moody.

IC wizards never spam killing curse, not even the death eaters. I doubt the Harry Potter team could win before Galadriel blows them away with a tornado, Gandalf uses his magic or Thranduil shoots them.

An argument can be made for the wizards though. A lot of it depends on whether the killing curse would work on the likes of Saruman and Gandalf, who are basically demigods in their verse.

Voldy solos via Hax

Gandalf has used barriers before.

and the HP team HAS to tag them, which always seemed hard; their reactions & aim have ALWAYS been amateur at best. (with regards to the movies; Umbridge has the best reaction feat i.e knocking an fired arrow from a centaur away) Everyone except Galadriel has fought in battles/wars and has thousands of years experience.

team LOTR takes the majority

That made me lol, and it is true to boot. Umbridge top tier confirmed.

If we go by book feats though (and the OP does not mention using book or movies only, so to me books > movies), top tiers like Dumbledore can completely blindsight multiple trained aurors at once, guys who have decades worth of training to react to spell. While spells can be dodged by amateurs (like Harry as a student), it is mostly like street levelers aim dodging bullets. The goons firing them are not very good at aiming at moving targets. Dumbledore and Voldemort tagged each other continuously during their battles, they just had shields and other defenses.

And iirc, the LOTR do not really have speed feats

That being said, I still agree they take a majority, due to their hax and experience. Don't see what anyone besides Gandalf and Voldie is gonna do against a mountain busting level tornado.

Also Harry is a huge weak link.

Also, good luck trying to use AK on the Witch-King. Dude has been dead for centuries

I'd imagine that Gandalf or Saruman could compel them to surrender.

When has Galadriel created a tornado ? (she probably is the mightiest of the LOTR team, though)

She used it to take down the walls of Dol Guldur, which was one of the largest fortresses of the LOTR verse

"the assaults were driven back; and when the Shadow passed, Celeborn came forth and led the host of Lórien over Anduin in many boats. They took Dol Guldur, and Galadriel threw down its walls and laid bare its pits, and the forest was cleansed."

The fact that she did this with wind powers is implied/semi-cannon, but I believe this to be true, since she is clearly seen creating gusts when she has that encounter with Frodo.

Yup, she destroys Dol Guldur at the end of the Third Age, I know. I was just wondering about the tornado.

@cpt_nice: In the book/film IIRC Saruman was able to create massive lightning storms/avalanches hundred's of miles away from Isengard to force the Fellowship into traveling through Moria.

Gandalf the grey, (film/book) split a boulder in half to kill the trolls

a hit like that would likely one shot anyone on HP

I just don't understand how LOTR team is winning the polls - nostalgia?

Anyway HP team win... borderline spite really IMO. Their magic is so much more combat effective, invisibility spell + apparition + AK/transfiguration/shields/action etc = wins.

good day

I want to make arguments but i'll have to go back and research

To expand on this Saruman was able to use his voice to affect incredibly strong-willed beings like Frodo when he was trying to control Gandalf and Gandalf turned it around, making Saruman, despite being an immortal divine being, fall to his knees with his voice alone.

In terms of reactions Gandalf burned Legolas's arrow out of the air.

Here's him compelling an ancient elf like Legolas.

@cpt_nice: Yes, the idea was to include both movie and book versions. Nonetheless, the wizards are in their nerfed mode, Gandalf the Grey, for example, because if not, they will be near Sauron level, and the match, completely disbalanced.

Harry Potter team wins

Too many hax spells that very effective in battle

@cpt_nice: Also, yo may consider the strongest version of Harry, like in the end of the books, or adult as an auror, where he could be as strong, if not more, than Alastor Moody.

@alphaq: aren't voldemort snape and Dumbledore great telepaths. Voldemort has been able to control and manipulate Harry who isn't weak willed from an incredible distance. Only very skilled people could avoid his mind control/ reading. Snape was also skilled able to dive into people's minds and avoid Voldemort's telepathy almost casually. Dumbledore and Harry also have been able to shield thier thoughts and minds from invasion.

EDIT: Harry isn't skilled in oclumency (shielding ones mind)

@theonetaichou: I completely agree with you. Magic in Middle Earth is not quite focused on combatives. Nonetheless, we should consider also the physical atributes of the Middle Earth team, which I think is far superior to HP wizards, such as the shear physical superiority of the elves compared to humans, and weapons such as Gandalf's sword, Thranduil swords and bow, and Witch-king sword and flail.

@americanspeeddemon: I agree, I think that that kind of compeling by the Middle Earth wizards won't work on most of the HP wizards. They are too strong on will and mind.

They have mind powers but I don't know if telepath is the right word. Legilimency and Occlumency are more like sub-sets of magic, whereas I think of telepaths as they are in Marvel, where their powers are like sight and hearing for us, an intrinsic part of them.

Voldemort could influence Harry because of their spiritual link, he wouldn't have been able to reach just anyone like that.

Well that's the thing, we don't know just what Occlumency can protect against. We know it can block Legilimency and Veritaserum, which is mind-reading and truth compulsions respectively. And we have no idea how either of those actually work. Whether or not it can protect against the Imperius curse has never been revealed (although I kinda doubt it since Occlumency comes from calm, which the Imperius curse already instills).

Strictly speaking none of them have shown resistance to mind control outside of willpower which I doubt can resist Gandalf's/Saruman's will.

When Aragorn who is as close to anyone to being the greatest man and King possible says that Saruman is so dangerous that Elrond, Galadriel (both of them being incredibly powerful elves, Galdriel's will being enough to repel Sauron's) and Gandalf are almost the only ones safe that's pretty serious stuff. This a verse where people like Sam and Frodo exist (both of whom can bear the One Ring for extended amounts of time, which can turn normal, decent hobbits into monsters almost immediately and corrupt Boromir, a heroic warrior, and sorely tempt divine angels) or ancient elves or angels walking the earth or eldritch abominations. And Gandalf laughed in his face and forced him to his knees.

Gandalf, Saruman, Witch King and Thranduil can all solo.

@pateuvasiliu: I don't think so definitely not Thranduil he isn't very magical Galadriel is better than him. @alphaq: Occlumency doesn't have to come from calm. Draco achieved occlumency by closing out his compassion. Also there are unconfirmed possible examples of Dumbledore and Voldemort controlling minds.

Backing potter team for having better fight-suited magic

No, it was inherent skill at repressing compassion that gave him talent at Occlumency, him repressing his compassion wasn't the entirety of his Occlumency skills. Calm was the wrong word on my part, since we both know it's about blocking all emotion, which is slightly different. The point remains that Occlumency's desired emotional state is quite close to the one instilled by the Imperius curse.

You're referring to when Snape said that Voldemort used Legilimency to torment and control minds in the movies, yes? I interpreted that as him just manipulating them with fear and false images, not outright mind control.

@alphaq: I know the power of the Istari is astonishing, but I think that that kind of influence won't work in this scenario. I mean, i think that the pwoer of Saruman sould work via conversations, charm spells that perhaps would requiere more time, and I'm not sure the circumstances would allow it, but, perhaps a 1 on 1 enconuter in the ruins couls allow it.

@amnesiak: I agree, even if I think that magic in Middle Earth has greater feats of magnitude, except perhaps things like horrocruxes and the philosopher's stone. But you should also consider the physical abilities of Middle Earth team.

...the physicals of LOTR are not that impressive to be an insta-win. LOTR are not Flash-esque speedsters, superhumanly strong etc. Combine that with one, yes ONE, shield spell and then what? Their physicals become meaningless...

Every HP wizards has nigh-to-insta-spells as part of their arsenals, literally "accio" can call all weapons that LOTR have and then? Bombarda maxima aimed at LOTR team, confringo, using the wingardium leviosa to levitate LOTR team against their will and render them defenseless, transfiguration spells, invisibility charms on HP members... so many ways to win for the HP team. And what will the LOTR team do? Try to hit them?? Hmm...

HP team will always win in my opinion against LOTR - they have feats, and importantly clear cut combat feats rather than some nebulous ambiguous 'magic' feats that we must extrapolate for combat effectiveness. It is what it is...

good day

...nostalgia then mate, because knowledge would make it clear cut that HP is a bit better magic-combat wise. If this was a pure physical fight then LOTR wins, but use magic?

good day

@theonetaichou: First off, mate, bombarda maxima is a film only spell, so technically non-cannon. Secondly, that is literally one of the best destructive spells as of yet in the HP verse, and it barely blew up one wall. Galadriels took down the huge fortress walls of Dol Guldur by herself, so her destructive capability should be significantly above that.

There is no way to know whether Accio will even work on the magical items top tiers in the LOTR universe have. Accio is also not something that will literally rip objects out of people's hands. If that were the case, everyone would use it all the time to disarm the other person, but that is not the case.

Win. Leviosa does not work on human beings. Clearly stated in the books.

Transfiguration spells are rarely, if ever, used in combat and we can thus conclude they are either extremely hard to use effectively or are not IC for people to use

So, knowledge of the HP verse? Yeah, not really. Maybe read the books instead.

...sorry I missed the part that said Book Feats only by the OP? Especially when movie pics were posted. Perchance could you point me out to that clause? But we digress... I won't use movie feats then. As for Galadriel's feat - I don't deny it, I merely doubt whether it can get through a magical shield - which can be enforced as well, or why can't the HP team let loose spells in her direction or the many ways they can stop her. Galadriel nary nigh-instantly took down Dol Guldur. I don't doubt the power of LOTR - I just don't see what their power can do when it's slow, nebulous against insta-spells of HP. Maybe you can tell me how her feat will render HP unable to attack nor counter nor attack her in the process?

How do you know accio will not work? This battle takes place in a shared universe where both magics are applicable (part of the Battle Forum Rules). You are just special pleading now for the LOTR. The spell will work, and worse Hermione used accio to call Dark Arts books from Dumbledore's office without knowing where the books are. You have no point why accio will not work, oh by the way Harry used it famously in the Tri-Wizards Cup to summon his broom - a magical item. So again... swords, flails, bows, arrows etc get summoned to the HP Team. As for ripping items out of peoples hands... how do you know? There is no way to know either way but at least I have the precedence of objects being summoned as a point.

Wingardium leviosa - pray tell where does it states that in the books?

It's poppycock to equate rare usage with difficulty... there is no link there. Again special pleading for the LOTR team. They get transfigured unless you have points to show why they don't.

So... again HP wins. Combat effective magic.

good day

@theonetaichou: the burden of proof falls on you to show an instance in which accio is used in a combative nature, as you described. (Such as disarming somebody..) IIRC brooms also naturally adhere to a wizards command

Gandalf solos. He has 100 stories building-fall durability+ super eye blinding bright magic

Well Harry did get his broom with Accio, but that was mostly because he knew the object well and he knew the exact location, so he could focus on it very well despite its range.

But yeah, Accio has never been used to grab something from someone's hand. That would have come in handy loads of times.

I find it really ironic I am expected to provide proof for something happening that has no basis or feats in the HP verse itself.

HP.

Killing curse working on godlike entities is conjecture. Maybe it will kill him, maybe it won't. Using killing curse is also not something anybody on HP team does in battle, with the exception of Voldie

@cpt_nice: Gandolf is not Godlike.

But Gandalf is

@cpt_nice: Indeed, it does seem a bit mind numbing lol

It's been awhile sense I've seen the HP movies, and even longer sense I've read them. but with regards to a wizards broom, while first being instructed on how to fly. Weren't the students told to just stand by their brooms and command them simply by saying "UP!" ?

And during the first quiditch match when Harrys broom was being bewitched nobody suspected foul play until Hermione noticed Snakes locked eye contact and ramblings. IIRC didn't people just think Harrys broom was either misbehaving or he couldn't control it? I thought their brooms weren't much different than wands in regards to who they choose...(could be way off on this though)

Anyway Accio takes considerable concentration for such a minuet task

but in the end everyone except Voldy/Dumby has piss poor aim and/or bad reflex showings with their spells when comparing those stats to the LOTR team

He is part of the Maiar, a race of angellike deities who are just below the Valar, the literal gods of the LOTR verse.

So yeah, he kinda is.

I cannot make a convincing argument AK will not work, but I am sceptical.

Also, no one uses AK besides Voldie in combat, and he does not exactly spam it either. Just gonna ignore that?