Ultimate Captain America/Miles Morales vs Iron Fist/Luke Cage

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Impervious

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#1  Edited By Impervious
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VS

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In character

Standard gear and abilities

Fight takes place at an unpopulated city setting at night

Winner by KO, Incapacitation or Death

Random encounter

Who'd win? For what reasons?

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owie

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#3 owie  Moderator

Probably team 2. I think Ultimate Cap could beat Luke over the long haul. He's not as strong or durable as Luke, but his own stats will keep him in the game long enough for his skills and shield to give him a win eventually. Cage's skin may not break, but he could get choked out. But Iron Fist would beat Miles more quickly, I think, and then beat Ultimate Cap. Miles has the stats advantage over Iron Fist, and they both have an energy touch of a sort, but Iron Fist is so much more skilled, and has plenty of experience fighting people like Miles, and is more flexible with his own energy usage.

Basically I'm siding with both of the characters with lower stats and higher skills.

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SirFizzWhizz

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#4  Edited By SirFizzWhizz

@impervious: Oh, I see you did not get the memo. On Comicvine, Miles is a weak kid who cannot win a fight with a wet paper bag much less Luke or Danny. Thus team one loses in a spite match.

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Ajax24601

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Team 2. Along with what everyone else mentioned, Luke and Iron Fist have tons of experience working together. The only time Cap and Morales are conjoined is United we Stand story arch.

Also, currently Danny's physicals are well beyond human, and he's easily the most skilled person here.

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serrure

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Team 2 based on Teamwork.

not to mention im not sure Cage could be hurt, maybe Miles could but lets face it Cage has tanked a lot worse

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Leo-343

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#7  Edited By Leo-343

@sirfizzwhizz: Miles was born an oppressed black man, Comic Vine is solely filled with southern white men.

The struggle.

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SirFizzWhizz

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#8  Edited By SirFizzWhizz

@leo-343 said:

@sirfizzwhizz: Miles was born an oppressed black man, Comic Vine is solely filled with southern white men.

The struggle.

lol. Poor Miles.

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Leo-343

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@impervious: Hush! My struggle is like way harder than yours.

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Amnesiak

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Team 2

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cdiddyman911

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@leo-343: Hey, I'm a northern white manoise xD!

And I'll give it to team 2, seeing asome Ultimate Capital doesn't impress me that much.

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john_doe_0897

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@impervious: Oh, I see you did not get the memo. On Comicvine, Miles is a weak kid who cannot win a fight with a wet paper bag much less Luke or Danny. Thus team one loses in a spite match.

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newecho

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@sirfizzwhizz: I actually think miles beats Luke but he would lose to danny

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@serrure said:

Team 2 based on Teamwork.

not to mention im not sure Cage could be hurt, maybe Miles could but lets face it Cage has tanked a lot worse

Luke has no counter to Venom Sting anymore than Giant Woman, or Venom.

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serrure

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#16  Edited By serrure

@sirfizzwhizz said:
@serrure said:

Team 2 based on Teamwork.

not to mention im not sure Cage could be hurt, maybe Miles could but lets face it Cage has tanked a lot worse

Luke has no counter to Venom Sting anymore than Giant Woman, or Venom.

Venom has a very special weakness to energy attacks. and since i doubt Miles Venom Sting compares anything to Living Laser . Living Lasers attacks, and i quote" "Tickled" to Cage.

no one here hurts him so far.

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SirFizzWhizz

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#17  Edited By SirFizzWhizz

@serrure:

Venom has a very special weakness to energy attacks. and since i doubt Miles Venom Sting compares anything to Living Laser . Living Lasers attacks, and i quote" "Tickled" to Cage.

Venom has only weakness to Elecrtcity. Sound and fire do not faze him, nor lasers. Venom has better regen and durability feats as living goo with no solid form. Yet venom Sting drops him fine. Giant Woman is strong enough to catch Helicarrier, suffering only broken ribs. Luke is not touching that feat. Dropped by Venom stings with a follow up punch from a 10 toner.

no one here hurts him so far.

Cap can also harm Cage. Cap has busted up Warmachine, who tanks multiple 5.0 earth quack blows fine. Busted up Juggernaut who is a 100 toner with a kick to the face and single shield bash the second time. Busted up Hulk long enough to get a quick conversation in with Fury. he also dropped Valkery with a blow, and she is mad strong to fight a blood lusted Thor.

So to say Luke cannot be harm by either is crap. He is not even a 100 toner, and suffered internal bleeding from blows by low end bricks. His own organs been harm by less forces as well. His one best feat is tanking a nuke in a non canon story, which he still died from the blast effects afterward.

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@serrure said:
@sirfizzwhizz said:
@serrure said:

Team 2 based on Teamwork.

not to mention im not sure Cage could be hurt, maybe Miles could but lets face it Cage has tanked a lot worse

Luke has no counter to Venom Sting anymore than Giant Woman, or Venom.

Venom has a very special weakness to energy attacks. and since i doubt Miles Venom Sting compares anything to Living Laser . Living Lasers attacks, and i quote" "Tickled" to Cage.

no one here hurts him so far.

to be fair black panther put him down with a touch. Miles is close to him in strength and much faster... He also has the advantage of webbing and invisibility... I don't think miles can beat him every time but he can take a slight majority..

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Danny solos.

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serrure

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@serrure:

Venom has a very special weakness to energy attacks. and since i doubt Miles Venom Sting compares anything to Living Laser . Living Lasers attacks, and i quote" "Tickled" to Cage.

Venom has only weakness to Elecrtcity. Sound and fire do not faze him, nor lasers. Venom has better regen and durability feats as living goo with no solid form. Yet venom Sting drops him fine. Giant Woman is strong enough to catch Helicarrier, suffering only broken ribs. Luke is not touching that feat. Dropped by Venom stings with a follow up punch from a 10 toner.

no one here hurts him so far.

Cap can also harm Cage. Cap has busted up Warmachine, who tanks multiple 5.0 earth quack blows fine. Busted up Juggernaut who is a 100 toner with a kick to the face and single shield bash the second time. Busted up Hulk long enough to get a quick conversation in with Fury. he also dropped Valkery with a blow, and she is mad strong to fight a blood lusted Thor.

So to say Luke cannot be harm by either is crap. He is not even a 100 toner, and suffered internal bleeding from blows by low end bricks. His own organs been harm by less forces as well. His one best feat is tanking a nuke in a non canon story, which he still died from the blast effects afterward.

1. Spider Woman dropped Venom Gargan with a single Venom sting. whether it be official or not, Venom has a weakness to Energy attacks.

2. Luke has tanked punches from Wonder Man, Hulk, Thing, and several other class 100s. and you think Captain America is going to hurt him. i call BS on Captain America hurting him. it would take someone of Spider Man (Peter Parker) strength to convince me that one could harm Lucas Cage physically. neither one of the 2 opponents have it

@newecho said:
@serrure said:
@sirfizzwhizz said:
@serrure said:

Team 2 based on Teamwork.

not to mention im not sure Cage could be hurt, maybe Miles could but lets face it Cage has tanked a lot worse

Luke has no counter to Venom Sting anymore than Giant Woman, or Venom.

Venom has a very special weakness to energy attacks. and since i doubt Miles Venom Sting compares anything to Living Laser . Living Lasers attacks, and i quote" "Tickled" to Cage.

no one here hurts him so far.

to be fair black panther put him down with a touch. Miles is close to him in strength and much faster... He also has the advantage of webbing and invisibility... I don't think miles can beat him every time but he can take a slight majority..

ahh yes because Miles Morales has used pressure points due to his knowledge in hand 2 hand. no wait he hasnt.

comparing T'challas skill to Miles Physicals is a logical fallacy.

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newecho

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@serrure: I wasn't comparing skill,, I was just saying he has been hurt by less than a venom sting....

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@serrure:

1. Spider Woman dropped Venom Gargan with a single Venom sting. whether it be official or not, Venom has a weakness to Energy attacks.

No Caption Provided

Spider Woman is 616. Your talking 616 Venom and not Ultimate Venom. Also 616 Spider Woman can drop Luke Cage with her full charge venom Blasts as well. So....

2. Luke has tanked punches from Wonder Man, Hulk, Thing, and several other class 100s. and you think Captain America is going to hurt him. i call BS on Captain America hurting him. it would take someone of Spider Man (Peter Parker) strength to convince me that one could harm Lucas Cage physically. neither one of the 2 opponents have it

I really dont care if you think its BS or not. The stricking feats, and knowledge of "red zones" from Cap is proof enough he can drop Cage.

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MartianManhunterIsBetterThanCyborg

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Luke Cage/Iron Fist for the win!!!

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@sirfizzwhizz: Luke Cage's durability and strength are much higher than a 25 tonner that he's rated at though. He can literally be thrown out of the center of a city (IIRC) and survive and fall out of airplanes onto the ground.

I think his feats put him around the 70 to 75 tonner range.

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@slimj87d said:

@sirfizzwhizz: Luke Cage's durability and strength are much higher than a 25 tonner that he's rated at though. He can literally be thrown out of the center of a city (IIRC) and survive and fall out of airplanes onto the ground.

I think his feats put him around the 70 to 75 tonner range.

I think so too. Still, Caps striking feats and the venom Sting will end him which is my point.

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slimj87d

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#26  Edited By slimj87d

@sirfizzwhizz: I'm not familiar with the venom sting but it sounds impressive so far.

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I think I may go with team 1 on this. Miles' Venom Sting is insanely OP.

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@sirfizzwhizz: I believe Luke Cage took a venom blast from Skrull Queen Spider Woman at one point, and I know he's taken stings from the likes of Scorpion and kept going, so I dunno how well the venom blast will do against him. At least not until he gets a few stings in Luke.

To top it off, Classic Luke has fought with Classic Peter Parker and done extremely well, who was around (maybe a little below) Miles's level.

However, the biggest issue in my opinion is coming from Iron Fist. I am almost positive that Iron Fist can stand up to venom blasts, and I am almost positive he can easily dish out enough damage to take out Miles/Cap quickly. The biggest issue, however, will be him trying to hit them. Miles is more than fast enough to avoid him. Cap, I don't believe, could keep up with him in an unarmed fight, but that shield will basically negate any speed advantage Danny has in a striking match.

With all that said, the problem with Iron Fist is that he can be glass cannoned by a good hit from either Peter or Cap IMO, and both are fast enough to potentially hit him before he can land a few good strikes on him.

So basically, we have a pretty even match up IMO. Luke is by far and away the most durable opponent here, as well as the strongest, and I do believe he's at least fast enough to keep up. Iron Fist is probably the most deadly person here, and is extremely fast and probably the most skilled. However, I also believe he is the most vulnerable person in this fight.

On the other hand, I think Miles and Cap are the most well rounded players in the match. To top it off, they are also far better off in terms of equipment. Cap has his shield, armor, and modern military equipment to supplement his phenomenal stats. Conversely, Miles has webs, venom, enhanced senses, and mobility going for him.

I don't think anyone can potentially one shot, and I think this is actually a fairly decent neck-and-neck battle. But at the end of the day I'd side with versatility and well-roundedness over the specialized opposition. However, that's just my two cents.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

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@serrure said:

1. Spider Woman dropped Venom Gargan with a single Venom sting. whether it be official or not, Venom has a weakness to Energy attacks.

Thats because Gargan was a jobber. With that said Miles handbook entry confirms the venom sting is electricity and ultimate venom is weak to that. 616 Venom isn't weak to energy attacks.

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#30  Edited By SirFizzWhizz

@jashro44 said:
@serrure said:

1. Spider Woman dropped Venom Gargan with a single Venom sting. whether it be official or not, Venom has a weakness to Energy attacks.

Thats because Gargan was a jobber. With that said Miles handbook entry confirms the venom sting is electricity and ultimate venom is weak to that. 616 Venom isn't weak to energy attacks.

Here is where you fail in your assumption.

1) Electro absorbs electricty, and is made of it. Venom Sting worked on him.

2) Spiderman's webbing does not conduct electricity, and you know this. Yet the Venom Sting traveled through 616 Peter's webbing.

3) Scorpion tank insane electrical attack from Prolwer, but one small touch through the leather of his boot, a non conductive source mind ya, drops him.

4) It worked on legos, exploding them.

So how is it the same as normal electricity? This argument is as sound as equating Electromagnetic energy as simple electricity. Not even close.

No Caption Provided

honestly this hastily made bio does not explain why his Venom Blast works through plastic, leather, 616 Web Fluid, or even why it cannot be absorb by Electro.

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@sirfizzwhizz:

  1. PIS? Or maybe electro just isn't immune to electric attacks.
  2. Spider-mans webbing has conducted electricity before.
  3. Good for Miles? Doesn't change what it is.
  4. Bendis is a bad scientist I guess. Take it up with him.
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@jashro44:

PIS? Or maybe electro just isn't immune to electric attacks.

He absorb Thors electricity attacks the whole Sinister 6 Battle. he absorb IM electricity. He exist as electricity through electrical cords. Hawkeyes Arros and Furies bullets were phasing through his electrical form.

Spider-mans webbing has conducted electricity before.

Has before in the far past, yes, however I own New Avengers graphic novels, and in it Spider Man states his webbing is electrical proof period when they ran into Electro. so....

Good for Miles? Doesn't change what it is.

Good nothing.

One "electrical" is not like the other.

Bendis is a bad scientist I guess. Take it up with him.

I dont have to take it up with him. You have to prove its simple electricity, and by the many feats its not. In fact all the bio states is his touch chrges a target and electrical blast immobilizes. Maybe electrical like in nature, like Spider Womans bio electricity attacks, but still not electricity. Just like the bios state the Venom Blast of Spider Woman is bio electricity.

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This is New avengers (aka Skrull Queens) stated Bio. Yet Skrull Queen with the exact same powers....

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Dr. Doom of all people cannot identy her Bio Electricity even though that is what is stated in her bio? Hmmmmmmm.

So, yeah. Your wrong to assume its simple electricity. ]

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jashro44

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#34  Edited By jashro44

@sirfizzwhizz:

He absorb Thors electricity attacks the whole Sinister 6 Battle. he absorb IM electricity. He exist as electricity through electrical cords. Hawkeyes Arros and Furies bullets were phasing through his electrical form.

When Miles uses the venom sting we hear a "Zzzt" noise and electro says "what was that?" and than he starts spasming. Its possible Miles overloaded him as well. Regardless I don't think the ability to absorb and manipulate electricity makes Electro immune to eletricity at all times especially when it takes him by surprise:

No Caption Provided

Really though I think Miles just overloaded him. When electro falls down in pain the electricity isn't yellow like Miles's venom sting.

Has before in the far past, yes, however I own New Avengers graphic novels, and in it Spider Man states his webbing is electrical proof period when they ran into Electro. so....

Bendis forgetting/ignoring one statement doesn't surprise me. He doesn't care about consistency (I honestly do think he stopped caring when he started his avengers run). If you want an in universe explanation, Peter at the time was creating different webbing's so maybe that's why Miles venom sting conducted. But really I think its just a case of "Bendis-writing".

Good nothing.

The only thing that's different is the color. None of this debunks Miles venom sting being electricity. Heck this gives credence to what I said about him over loading electro above which would prove that the venom sting is electricity.

I dont have to take it up with him. You have to prove its simple electricity, and by the many feats its not. In fact all the bio states is his touch chrges a target and electrical blast immobilizes. Maybe electrical like in nature, like Spider Womans bio electricity attacks, but still not electricity. Just like the bios state the Venom Blast of Spider Woman is bio electricity.

The handbook statement is proof enough. Show me a statement it isn't electricity. The skrull queen thing has no relevancy with Miles. Also Bio-electricity is an actual thing in real life so not sure what makes you say it isn't electricity.

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Miles have a lot of trouble against skilled peak human, he's not really in the other three's league.

For the fight Ultimate Cap would beat cage one on one in a long fight, lose to danny most of the time, with this being mostly 2v1 Cap loses badly.

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Just_J79

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I think team one can take this. We all know Luke is the heavy hitter, but his skills don't match that of Ult. Cap. This version Steve may not have the exact same skill as his counter part (to me its debatable), but he is still one of the best h2h fighters and combatants in his (or any) universe...with superhuman stats. His skill with stats will let him take out Luke and I'm sure Miles can hold his own against Iron Fist at the very least until Cap can help. If that doesn't work I'm sure he can devise a way to take both of them out if he has too.

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SirFizzWhizz

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@jashro44:

When Miles uses the venom sting we hear a "Zzzt" noise and electro says "what was that?" and than he starts spasming. Its possible Miles overloaded him as well. Regardless I don't think the ability to absorb and manipulate electricity makes Electro immune to eletricity at all times especially when it takes him by surprise:

No Caption Provided

Really though I think Miles just overloaded him. When electro falls down in pain the electricity isn't yellow like Miles's venom sting.

Read your own scan. Electro does not even register as electricity. This is the guy made of electricty as stated in his bio.

No Caption Provided

Yet what miles does does not even register to him. Also how the (censor) does Miles Overload Electro when Thor could not? When he drained all of Iron Mans suit of its entire energy did not overload him! This is the same guy who overloaded the Triskleion generators which empower the whole super highest tech, and power demanding building on the planet.

Really mate?! So Miles simple Venom Sting as electricity >>>to all that? DAAAAMN he can one shot Danny and Luke Cage. Hell yeah, if you want to go with that thought.

Has before in the far past, yes, however I own New Avengers graphic novels, and in it Spider Man states his webbing is electrical proof period when they ran into Electro. so....

Bendis forgetting/ignoring one statement doesn't surprise me. He doesn't care about consistency (I honestly do think he stopped caring when he started his avengers run). If you want an in universe explanation, Peter at the time was creating different webbing's so maybe that's why Miles venom sting conducted. But really I think its just a case of "Bendis-writing".

Thats a excuse base on your assumption. I am going strictly by feats.

The only thing that's different is the color. None of this debunks Miles venom sting being electricity. Heck this gives credence to what I said about him over loading electro above which would prove that the venom sting is electricity.

You are your own worst enemy with your electron argument :/ Unless you want to admit Miles Venom Sting > All the generated energy in Thor's lightning, all the energy output of iron Mans armor, and the operations plus craft that run on the Triskelion generators.

Either way then he one shots Luke Cage with that power frying Lukes brain :/ Not likely. The Venom Blast and Miles are stated electricity in bio, but that is not what it is or behaves like lit. Not in the strict sense, and there is more to it in feats.

The handbook statement is proof enough. Show me a statement it isn't electricity. The skrull queen thing has no relevancy with Miles. Also Bio-electricity is an actual thing in real life so not sure what makes you say it isn't electricity.

Bio electricity does not function the same way as raw generated electricity, but lets say it is electricity, why does it affect Green goblin and his Oz in a UNIQUE way?

Answer that one mate. Goblin is not weak to lightning or electricity at all. So.... why is the Venom Sting, a simple electricity attack specially harmful him if its just electricity? Why does it make him different on the chemical formula which both Miles and Goblin are similar thanks to Oz formula? Answer that one since you seem to have all the answers. And yes, I am getting ugly with your "claims" and trying to state the venom Blast is just "Electricity" base on one badly written bio, and not the overwhelming proof in feats and closely related situations with Spider Woman own "electricity" Venom Blasts.

So in the end, by all the feats and proof, is electricity all the Venom Blast is as a form of energy?

No Caption Provided

Clearly not.

No Caption Provided

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SirFizzWhizz

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#38  Edited By SirFizzWhizz

@just_j79 said:

I think team one can take this. We all know Luke is the heavy hitter, but his skills don't match that of Ult. Cap. This version Steve may not have the exact same skill as his counter part (to me its debatable), but he is still one of the best h2h fighters and combatants in his (or any) universe...with superhuman stats. His skill with stats will let him take out Luke and I'm sure Miles can hold his own against Iron Fist at the very least until Cap can help. If that doesn't work I'm sure he can devise a way to take both of them out if he has too.

May not be as skilled, but your right, he is damn skilled.

No Caption Provided

He not only thinks and learns faster than 616 Steve, he is still a tactical genius, stated to mastered numerous fighting forms and weapons, and rating skill of 6 to show this. So yes, he is damn good though many people who dislike Ultimate Marvel low ball him.

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jashro44

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@sirfizzwhizz:

Read your own scan. Electro does not even register as electricity. This is the guy made of electricty as stated in his bio.

None of this proves anything.

Yet what miles does does not even register to him. Also how the (censor) does Miles Overload Electro when Thor could not? When he drained all of Iron Mans suit of its entire energy did not overload him! This is the same guy who overloaded the Triskleion generators which empower the whole super highest tech, and power demanding building on the planet.

I don't know much about Thor but that is why I said it could be PIS. Or maybe he had drained iron man and than the venom sting put him over the edge on top of all that energy.

Really mate?! So Miles simple Venom Sting as electricity >>>to all that? DAAAAMN he can one shot Danny and Luke Cage. Hell yeah, if you want to go with that thought.

Not touching this.

Thats a excuse base on your assumption. I am going strictly by feats.

Its not an excuse.

You are your own worst enemy with your electron argument :/ Unless you want to admit Miles Venom Sting > All the generated energy in Thor's lightning, all the energy output of iron Mans armor, and the operations plus craft that run on the Triskelion generators.

All I have said so far is that Miles venom sting is electricity. If you really want my opinion on the fight I think Miles can potentially beat Luke Cage if the venom sting can drop him, but Danny has the potential to possibly solo (albeit I don't think he would in character). It might depend on who matches up with who. I see ultimate cap holding Danny off longer than Cage holds out against Miles, but if it goes the other way I see Cage holding out longer against cap than Miles does against Danny. I am ultimately leaning towards team 2 because I can see a few scenarios where Danny pulls the win off by himself. His feats in his last ongoing were ridiculous.

Either way then he one shots Luke Cage with that power frying Lukes brain :/ Not likely. The Venom Blast and Miles are stated electricity in bio, but that is not what it is or behaves like lit. Not in the strict sense, and there is more to it in feats.

It could just be all WIS. This wouldn't be the only time science takes a back seat in fiction.

Bio electricity does not function the same way as raw generated electricity, but lets say it is electricity, why does it affect Green goblin and his Oz in a UNIQUE way?

Electric Eels use bio electricity. Its really just a different form of electricity.

Answer that one mate. Goblin is not weak to lightning or electricity at all. So.... why is the Venom Sting, a simple electricity attack specially harmful him if its just electricity? Why does it make him different on the chemical formula which both Miles and Goblin are similar thanks to Oz formula? Answer that one since you seem to have all the answers.

In your own scan Norman refers to it as a current and a jolt....Words that are typically associated with electricity. I don't know why it messed with Osborn on a genetic level. It was never explained. Maybe Bendis just gave him a weakness to electricity. I don't want to say anything for sure.

And yes, I am getting ugly with your "claims" and trying to state the venom Blast is just "Electricity" base on one badly written bio, and not the overwhelming proof in feats and closely related situations with Spider Woman own "electricity" Venom Blasts.

You want to argue the venom sting is powerful go for it. My only argument is that its electricity.

So in the end, by all the feats and proof, is electricity all the Venom Blast is as a form of energy?

Well now we have Normans description of the venom sting.

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Iron Fist and Luke Cage

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@leo-343 said:

@sirfizzwhizz: Miles was born an oppressed black man, Comic Vine is solely filled with southern white men.

The struggle.

No he wasn't....he's half Mexican

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SirFizzWhizz

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@jashro44:

None of this proves anything.

You have no counter. A being who is made of electricity, and absorbs it was dropped by... electricity? When Thor dragged out a fight with him using lightning? Riiiiigt.

I don't know much about Thor but that is why I said it could be PIS. Or maybe he had drained iron man and than the venom sting put him over the edge on top of all that energy.

He was never stated as to having a limit, or why the extra energy would not just be dispersed. Its all assumption on your part.

Not touching this.

Thought so.

Its not an excuse.

You showed nothing but a vague Bio description of his power and making all these "theories" shot down by the feats.

All I have said so far is that Miles venom sting is electricity. If you really want my opinion on the fight I think Miles can potentially beat Luke Cage if the venom sting can drop him, but Danny has the potential to possibly solo (albeit I don't think he would in character). It might depend on who matches up with who. I see ultimate cap holding Danny off longer than Cage holds out against Miles, but if it goes the other way I see Cage holding out longer against cap than Miles does against Danny. I am ultimately leaning towards team 2 because I can see a few scenarios where Danny pulls the win off by himself. His feats in his last ongoing were ridiculous.

Im not in this debate for why team 1 wins. i gave up defending Ultimate vs Mainstream Marvel on who beats who. This sight will never change, and no one acknowledges Miles matching and beating the likes of Electro, Goblin, and Venom fine. Nope, Miles is just a low level Sidekick character. All I am arguing is the outrageous claim you made that the Venom Sting is simply a electrical shock :/ there is clearly more to it.

It could just be all WIS. This wouldn't be the only time science takes a back seat in fiction.

I agree, but the problem is its consistent as hell.

Bio electricity does not function the same way as raw generated electricity, but lets say it is electricity, why does it affect Green goblin and his Oz in a UNIQUE way?

Electric Eels use bio electricity. Its really just a different form of electricity. Also in the comics, no one knows how to classify his venom Sting, including Fury. If its simple electricity, they would up and state this no?

In your own scan Norman refers to it as a current and a jolt....Words that are typically associated with electricity. I don't know why it messed with Osborn on a genetic level. It was never explained. Maybe Bendis just gave him a weakness to electricity. I don't want to say anything for sure.

Holy (Censor). Your grasping straws. Electricity is something that GG been hit with time and again. tasers, Electric collars, and more. Never hurt him before but this "jolt" affects him on the genetic level, and Norman theories it has to do with the fact this power is powered from the OZ formula that empowers himself. Simple as that.

You want to argue the venom sting is powerful go for it. My only argument is that its electricity.

Too bad I shot that down, like several times. It might resemble electricity buts its not. Its like saying Laser energy is the same as Plasma. Both emit heat and light, not the same at all in every other way mate.

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@sirfizzwhizz:

You have no counter. A being who is made of electricity, and absorbs it was dropped by... electricity?

Again the ability to absorb something doesn't mean that it can't hurt you. And while electro is made out of electricity he was still hurt from hawkeye's arrows and Fury's bullets even if they didn't drop him.

When Thor dragged out a fight with him using lightning? Riiiiigt.

So ultimate electro is on par with ultimate thor in your opinion? I thought ultimate thor was suppose to be some high tier character?

He was never stated as to having a limit, or why the extra energy would not just be dispersed. Its all assumption on your part.

Just because he was never said to have a limit doesn't mean he doesn't have a limit. Assuming he has no limits is a no limits fallacy.

Thought so.

You have literally argued in the past that Miles venom sting is more powerful than thor lightning because ultimate venom when bonded with Peter Parker "held himself together" from Thor's lightning. If you want the truth I think either Miles over loading electro is PIS or Electro's fight with thor is PIS.

You showed nothing but a vague Bio description of his power and making all these "theories" shot down by the feats.

Vague? How is it vague? It flat out says its electricity....That's very blunt.

Im not in this debate for why team 1 wins. i gave up defending Ultimate vs Mainstream Marvel on who beats who. This sight will never change, and no one acknowledges Miles matching and beating the likes of Electro, Goblin, and Venom fine. Nope, Miles is just a low level Sidekick character. All I am arguing is the outrageous claim you made that the Venom Sting is simply a electrical shock :/ there is clearly more to it.

More to it? Probably. But that doesn't mean it isn't ultimately an electrical attack. Its never been explained how the venom sting works, and there is a lot we don't know. I doubt it will ever be explained because no one cares how the venom sting works.

I agree, but the problem is its consistent as hell.

Well Bendis is the only writer for Miles so far so maybe he just doesn't have an understanding of electricity. Thats what I mean by WIS.

Electric Eels use bio electricity. Its really just a different form of electricity. Also in the comics, no one knows how to classify his venom Sting, including Fury. If its simple electricity, they would up and state this no?

Why don't you post the scan with Fury because I've been asking for this since the beginning of the debate....And yes bio-electricity is a different form of electricity but its still electricity.

Holy (Censor). Your grasping straws. Electricity is something that GG been hit with time and again. tasers, Electric collars, and more. Never hurt him before but this "jolt" affects him on the genetic level,

I said maybe for a reason. As I said I don't know why it messed with Norman. This was never explained to my knowledge. My point was it could be lazy writing.

and Norman theories it has to do with the fact this power is powered from the OZ formula that empowers himself. Simple as that.

When was this? In ultimate spider-man #5 he states he created the spider-men but he never states the venom sting messes with him because it is powered from OZ.

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#47  Edited By owie  Moderator

Personally I can buy that Miles's venom touch could drop Cage, because Cage's durability is usually explained as "unbreakable skin" rather than a through-and-through increased durability. So I've always interpreted that as meaning that it's hard to pierce his skin, but once you do he's normal inside. Maybe I'm wrong about that, I'd be happy to hear contrary feats. But if I'm right, I could see Miles's touch affecting him as it seems like the kind of thing that just seeps inside somebody.

I'd like to point out that one can think Miles might lose a fight, while also respecting him as a character/combatant. It's not always about lowballing.

If they match up that way (Miles/Luke, Cap/Danny), I could see the Ultimate team winning, since it would probably take longer for Danny to beat Cap than for Miles to beat Luke--assuming the venom touch works. If it doesn't, Miles is eventually losing--and then Miles can help Cap against Iron Fist. I had also forgotten about Miles's webbing; that won't be a major factor, but could trip Danny up enough to help his team out enough for an extra win.

But I think Iron Fist is the MVP here, and could beat any one of the others. So it really all depends on how much Luke holds out, and against whom.