Name two Jedi or Sith from any era and continuity ROTJ and before ROTJ that can beat GM Luke Skywalker (Legends) in a 2v1 at his absolute prime no jobbing/holding back.
Two Jedi/Sith That Can Beat GM Luke Skywalker
DE sidious and prime Yoda might have a chance. I can't really think of anyone else that would be able to pull it off
DE sidious and prime Yoda might have a chance. I can't really think of anyone else that would be able to pull it off
This is ROTJ and before. DE Sidious post ROTJ isn't counted because I knew some people would just pair him up with another high tier and say they can pull it off.
@void_reborn: Ah, didn't see that. The issue with GM Luke is that you either have to be so near him in power and skill, which nobody really is, or you need to have hax. He can resist drain, so Nihlus/Vitiate is out because neither of them can contend with him in the force or a duel.
Perhaps Naga Sadow with his sun moving abilities and ROTJ Sidious?
Only Palpatine and a prime Yoda have a chance even then I would give Luke a slight edge. Post Grandmaster Luke easy win
The duo would have to be more powerful than 2 of ROTS Darth Sidious in order to overcome Luke in his prime. ROTJ Sidious & ROTS Yoda or Windu can pull it off.
The duo would have to be more powerful than 2 of ROTS Darth Sidious in order to overcome Luke in his prime. ROTJ Sidious & ROTS Yoda or Windu can pull it off.
How is Windu even relevant? Without his amp he is not winning
The Son and ROTJ Darth Sidious
I am not to sure on the Son as Luke rivaled Anakin's potential
@void_reborn: I don't see any Jedi or sith winning against Luke even as a duo
The duo would have to be more powerful than 2 of ROTS Darth Sidious in order to overcome Luke in his prime. ROTJ Sidious & ROTS Yoda or Windu can pull it off.
How is Windu even relevant? Without his amp he is not winning
Per Lucas, Windu is factually on the level of Yoda/Sidious without an amp, so if he was amped at all, it was a small one.
Therefore Windu is more or less interchangeable with ROTS Yoda or Palpatine, while ROTJ Palpatine is comfortably more powerful than ROTS Palpatine. If prime Luke is a 20, you need two 10s(ROTS Sidious) to equal him. ROTJ Palpatine should be a 15, while Mace is at least a 9.
The Son and ROTJ Darth Sidious
The Son is not a Jedi/Sith
@lord_tenebrous said:
The duo would have to be more powerful than 2 of ROTS Darth Sidious in order to overcome Luke in his prime. ROTJ Sidious & ROTS Yoda or Windu can pull it off.
How is Windu even relevant? Without his amp he is not winning
Per Lucas, Windu is factually on the level of Yoda/Sidious without an amp, so if he was amped at all, it was a small one.
Therefore Windu is more or less interchangeable with ROTS Yoda or Palpatine, while ROTJ Palpatine is comfortably more powerful than ROTS Palpatine. If prime Luke is a 20, you need two 10s(ROTS Sidious) to equal him. ROTJ Palpatine should be a 15, while Mace is at least a 9.
Yes, he is declared two be the second strongest Jedi and declared to have beaten Palpatine but he was amped as Vaapad amps individuals severely and Lucas helped with the book that said as much not to mention per Lucas Anakin could kill Palpatine and he and Luke are twice as powerful as Palpatine at their full potential. So Palpatine would be half as powerful as Luke even in his peak so in most scenarios even with Palpatine it would be like Palpatine's duel with Maul and Savage. Plus even if you do have two people that are half as good as another person it won't stack up automatically for example in most anime, shows, and movies sometimes there multiple people who are half as good as one still somehow lose because the one guy is stronger enough to take them down before their numbers start helping them
Numbers arent helping any TRIO here, let alone duo. Id give Luke the slight majority over ROTS Yoda+ ROTJ Sidious even. Ancient Sith like Naga Sadow or Exar Kun might be able to pull something off using sorcery but its not viable in a straight up battle, so thats out.
Even post-ROTJ powerhouses like DE Sidious fall short. Maybe something like DE Sidious+Darth Caedus or Yoda could pull something off but its arguable even then.
Currently Rules is like pitting two jedi Knights against ROTS Obi Wan, the gap is too significant.
The Son and ROTJ Darth Sidious
The Son is not a Jedi/Sith
Oh yep my bad, well then the only 2 I can see having a chance as of now are Yoda ROTS and Darth Sidious ROTJ
Yes, he is declared two be the second strongest Jedi and declared to have beaten Palpatine
I didn't reference any of this, I was referring to Lucas explicitly lumping Mace, Yoda & Emperor Palpatine together in terms of overall combative prowess.
but he was amped as Vaapad amps individuals severely
C-canon novel <<< GL's statements. If there was any amp, it was essentially negligible, otherwise it conflicts with the facts laid out by GL.
and Lucas helped with the book that said as much not to mention
Lucas edited the book, that's not the same as fully endorsing everything in it as unchangeable canonical fact.
per Lucas Anakin could kill Palpatine
That's another debate for another time, and completely irrelevent.
and he and Luke are twice as powerful as Palpatine at their full potential. So Palpatine would be half as powerful as Luke even in his peak so in most scenarios even with Palpatine it would be like Palpatine's duel with Maul and Savage.
Luke & full potential Anakin would be 2 times as powerful as the ROTS Emperor. Power. Not skill.
Plus even if you do have two people that are half as good as another person it won't stack up automatically for example in most anime, shows, and movies sometimes there multiple people who are half as good as one still somehow lose because the one guy is stronger enough to take them down before their numbers start helping them
If you have two people who combined are equal to one person, it can tip either way and will come down to in the moment, otherwise minor circumstances. If Yoda, Sidious, Mace, etc, attack Luke as one and push him into a direct power match, like Yoda vs Sidious, Talzin vs Sidious, etc, they will win. The only way Luke can win is if he somehow succeeds in separating them.
And I would like to distinguish between power and lightsaber prowess. The latter is not an infinite scale, you can only become so adept in a duel. Luke is not going to be vastly superior to people like Yoda or Sidious as a lightsaber duelist. If he's at all better, it's by a narrow margin. In terms of power, he is miles ahead of everyone else. But in a fencing match, prime Luke would lose to any Yoda/Sidious-tier + some decent fighter like Obi-Wan or Kit Fisto.
Yes, he is declared two be the second strongest Jedi and declared to have beaten Palpatine
I didn't reference any of this, I was referring to Lucas explicitly lumping Mace, Yoda & Emperor Palpatine together in terms of overall combative prowess.
Where? The statement where he says you have to be a mace or Yoda to compete with the emperor
but he was amped as Vaapad amps individuals severely
C-canon novel <<< GL's statements. If there was any amp, it was essentially negligible, otherwise it conflicts with the facts laid out by GL.
GL kinda contradicts himself
and Lucas helped with the book that said as much not to mention
Lucas edited the book, that's not the same as fully endorsing everything in it as unchangeable canonical fact.
Well considering he cancels anything he doesn't want published or official yet kept that part in shows it Vaapad was a factor he has canceled plenty of things he didn't want to be canon
per Lucas Anakin could kill Palpatine
That's another debate for another time, and completely irrelevent.
Not really a debate he stright up said "Hey Anakin without Mustafar happening could kill Palpatine"
and he and Luke are twice as powerful as Palpatine at their full potential. So Palpatine would be half as powerful as Luke even in his peak so in most scenarios even with Palpatine it would be like Palpatine's duel with Maul and Savage.
Luke & full potential Anakin would be 2 times as powerful as the ROTS Emperor. Power. Not skill.
He said twice as good other words he meant everything not just power plus skill really doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things when the gap is gigantic
Plus even if you do have two people that are half as good as another person it won't stack up automatically for example in most anime, shows, and movies sometimes there multiple people who are half as good as one still somehow lose because the one guy is stronger enough to take them down before their numbers start helping them
If you have two people who combined are equal to one person, it can tip either way and will come down to in the moment, otherwise minor circumstances. If Yoda, Sidious, Mace, etc, attack Luke as one and push him into a direct power match, like Yoda vs Sidious, Talzin vs Sidious, etc, they will win. The only way Luke can win is if he somehow succeeds in separating them.
Not really more than once two people who combined match someone lost badly anyways if two people can match me in strength and speed combined and together but I can take them out much more easily than they could me it won't matter at all I'll just beat them both since neither can match me individually because I can hit them much more, hit harder than them and take more hits than either combined. No, they won't at best a stalemate if Luke is having a bad day but at worst he will struggle to kill them both. Luke is stronger than the three combined, faster than all 3 by a big margin, more powerful than all 3 by an even bigger margin(blackhole feats>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>any feat Mace or Yoda have), has more esoteric techniques than Mace or Yoda and has the simple ability to teleport Palpatine, Mace or Yoda to his lightsaber if he really needs to
And I would like to distinguish between power and lightsaber prowess. The latter is not an infinite scale, you can only become so adept in a duel. Luke is not going to be vastly superior to people like Yoda or Sidious as a lightsaber duelist. If he's at all better, it's by a narrow margin. In terms of power, he is miles ahead of everyone else. But in a fencing match, prime Luke would lose to any Yoda/Sidious-tier + some decent fighter like Obi-Wan or Kit Fisto.
That is true you can't become adept in a duel but what you can do is become so freaking fast that and strong that dueling skill is completely and utterly irrelevant so it won't matter at all. How is Yoda/Palpatine or any decent fighter beating Luke?
RotJ Sidious and Yoda.
I'm not properly informed about GM Luke but I state my belief anyways: Probably those two. I don't think they would win though but they'd challenge him.
DE sidious and prime Yoda might have a chance. I can't really think of anyone else that would be able to pull it off
When Luke is in the zone no mortal can even contend. The problem is that the number times in his entire life he’s in said zone can be counted on your fingers.
Yoda, Sids, hell Dooku and RotS Kenobi have a good shot on most days.
When Luke is in the zone no mortal can even contend. The problem is that the number times in his entire life he’s in said zone can be counted on your fingers.
Yoda, Sids, hell Dooku and RotS Kenobi have a good shot on most days.
DE Sidious can legitimately solo GM Luke in all honesty, his feats at that point were something else entirely. A blood lusted Luke can maybe pull off a win narrowly. if at all.
@ferriserris: Luke already solo’d DE Sids once his potential was unlocked by Leia.
Later, Vong war Luke is confirmed to be “more powerful than ever” which would include his DE Sids wrecking state.
So no Sids isn’t doing jack crap against on brand Luke.
Mortis anakin and DE Palpatine
I like this one, even though it's not exactly base character.
Nihilus and Vitiate.
What do you think they could do to overpower Luke?
Tbh, I just can't see GM Luke losing to any duo.
I still think this tbh.
The duo would have to be more powerful than 2 of ROTS Darth Sidious in order to overcome Luke in his prime. ROTJ Sidious & ROTS Yoda or Windu can pull it off.
Reborn Krayt and DE Sidious, for the Sith. For the Jedi, none. None are fast nor powerful enough to contend with him for long if he decides to abuse the Force.
GM Luke at his absolute prime NOT JOBBING?!?!? Uhhh, I am going to have to say that no Jedi/Sith duo beats him. The closest would be a Yoda/Sids duo. But even then, they only have a slim chance of beating him.
Seems like the general consensus is either:
A. Nobody
B. Sidious + Yoda
C. DE Sidious + Another Sith Lord
Seems like the general consensus is either:
A. Nobody
B. Sidious + Yoda
C. DE Sidious + Another Sith Lord
Jar jar binks
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