True Assassin vs Lancer

True Assassin

Diarmuid

Rules

• In character
• No prep
• Win by any means
• Standard gear

Location

• Begin visible
• Begin 50 feet apart
• Fight takes place here:

Who wins and why?

Lancer wins easily.

True Assassin doesn't have the assist from the mud here and Lancer won't be holding back unlike FSN Lancer who was ordered to hold back by Kirei.

Lancer wins.

King Hassan however...

Mismatch Lancer stomps.

Diarmuid > FSN Cu > Hassan

Really? I think Cu is above Diarmuid. Diarmuid can be more skilled but I don't remember him having any range attacks. Also my understanding is Cu's anti-arrow ability is a personal skill so Diarmuid lacks that.

Assassin is outclassed in a head to head fight and would lose but even than he kept up with Saber and Cu briefly. But the location is pretty dark and big so I figured he might be able to evade Diarmuid and get the drop on him.

@jashro44: Diarmuid being > FSN Cu is canon.

Q: Cu Chulainn and Diarmuid are both Lancers, but who will win in an honourble battle? In their first engagement with Saber, Cu Chulainn was being pressed hard, but Diarmuid was able to pressure Saber. So... Diarmuid is stronger

A: Diarmuid received more backup from his Master (magical energy supply), thus in terms of pure firepower, Diarmuid was stronger. In Japan, both of them received 0 geographical boost (from the cultural sphere), but if the stage was in Ireland --- Cu Chulainn would have an edge.

Basically, Kirei bring a worse master for Cu nerfs him below Diarmuid, while Cu under Rin like in Extra would probably win against him.

@devoidruby: Didn't Saber fight Cu who was restricted by a command seal though? We can clearly see how much faster Cu became once that got removed.

@theorder14: Even then, unrestricted Cu’s best feat is stomping EMIYA. Which isn’t that impressive given Diarmuid could do the same (if not better) in CQC.

Diarmuid went toe to toe with Zero Saber which is vastly superior to any of Cu’s feats which include losing to SN Saber in CQC, stomping EMIYA, being superior to CAH and surviving against Gilgamesh due to being a good matchup vs projectile heroes due to Disengage, Runes and PfA.

@devoidruby: Eh, even if Diarmuid is more skilled. I still see Cu taking the majority due to having superior NP. I don't think Lancer luck is going to save him against that.

@devoidruby: I am fine with accepting word of God statements when it comes to explaining the inner workings of a universe but when it comes to who wins in a fight I feel death of the author is a thing. Diarmuid was more powered up than Cu was since he had 2 masters in Fate/Zero but Cu in general has more impressive abilities IMO. Like as I said I can see Diarmuid as more skilled since he fought Saber as an equal (or according to that interview was pressing her) whereas Saber had the advantage over Cu. But I don't see Diarmuid having anything on par with Cu's Gae Bulg. Its pretty hax, strong and gives him long range over Diarmuid. Diarmuid's cursed spears stops healing so a wound from Diarmuid would be fatal but Cu also has high battle constitution.

Now you could argue Gae Bulg doesn't matter because Cu never used it against True Assassin but that brings me to my next point. The interview you are quoting is about who would win in a fight between Cu Culain and Diarmuid. Even if I were to accept it, it doesn't nessasarily translate to a fight with Diarmuid and true assassin since Cu Culain seems like a bad match for true assassin due to his anti-archery ability. Projectiles are useless against Cu Culain but not so much against Diarmuid. So I think true assassin getting the drop on Diarmuid vs Cu is more likely since assassin can attack from afar. Because with Diarmuid he can keep his distance whereas Cu was protected by his anti-archery ability so assassin couldn't do anything from a distance.

@jashro44:

So I think true assassin getting the drop on Diarmuid vs Cu is more likely since assassin can attack from afar.

Unlikely since they're both visible in this battle.Even if True assassin used presence concealment, he would get discovered the moment he attacks.

Kotomine Kirei was able to deflect True Assassin's daggers with one hand.

I don't think Diarmuid would have any issues doing the same.

He also casually deflected bullets in the dark i believe.

@theorder14: Diarmuid did deflect bullets and saved Kayneth. I don't think it was so dark he couldn't see though. I still haven't seen the second heavens feel movie so I'll have to see how Kotimine vs Assassin goes. But Kotimine has shown sharp awareness in general when he detected Zouken Matou in Fate/Zero.

@jashro44:

Diarmuid did deflect bullets and saved Kayneth. I don't think it was so dark he couldn't see though.

Maybe but close combat type servants in general does not only rely on their eyesight. Take Rider for example. Zero Assassin tried to ambush him in the dark and Rider easily deflected the dagger.

I still haven't seen the second heavens feel movie so I'll have to see how Kotimine vs Assassin goes.

Actually, that gif was from the game intro. You won't be seeing the fight until the third movie.

@theorder14: Iskandar seems to have sharp perceptions. He was watching DIarmuid and Saber's battle from a far distance away and he noticed the dead bodies when him and waver were in caster's hide out despite it being so dark Waver couldn't see. And than he detected those assassins and saved Waver.

Does Diarmuid have any feats for his senses like Iskandar?

@jashro44:

Diarmuid does have "mind's eye" which would be helpful.

Heaven's Feel movie 2 spoilers. Archer also curstomped True Assassin in the dark.He only used his bow once. He went melee the rest of the fight.

Zabaniya straight up doesnt work if Cursed Arm's opponent can move. Even Yan Qing who's also an Assassin laughed at it.

Prescence Concealment is for stealth attacks. It's not so good Assassins can ghost other servants mid combat. They have to reduce rank just to attack.

Cursed Arm straight up had trouble with Kirei who blocked several daggers. They're like bullet speed. At most Diarmuid wont be able to approach while they're being thrown but he's never getting tagged.

Cursed Arm, with two other Hassans backing him, got stomped by Tristan alone. That's how Assassins compare to Knight classes in random encounters. Cursed Arm got his teeth kicked in by the likes of Emiya, who Diarmuid would trash in melee.

For the record I wasn't suggesting he would ghost Diarmuid. Just give him the slip.

@jashro44: He's far slower than Diarmuid so running away is unlikely to work. When I say stealth attacks I mean on masters, servants aren't falling for that. For that matter we've seen Cursed Arm vs top tiers and that's not how it went.

Diarmuid is top tier?

@jashro44: Upper tier anyway, which is still below the likes of Gilgamesh who I consider God tier.

I never really felt like he was that good. I guess thinking about the servants in fate/zero he could beat Lancelot since Diarmuid did better against Saber and Lancelot's armor isn't useful against Diarmuid's weapons. I'm sure that is at least debatable though, Lancelot has better strength and durability. He can beat Hassan since he sucks.

I think he would lose to the other servants in Fate/Zero. Caster doesn't have a lot of feats without prep but I think if he gets a chance to use his summons he would win. But maybe you could make a case there depending on the setting. My big issue with viewing him as a top tier is his lack of range attacks and his noble phantasm is a bit hax but not really powerful. I think he is very skilled but he doesn't have a lot of options in a fight like other characters.

@sy8000: Diarmuid is certainly not top tier.

High mid tier at best imo.

Going by who we know are Top Servants (Iskandar, Gawain, Rin Cu, Karna, Lu Bu) I just can’t see Diarmuid even taking a single win outside of MAYBE catching a sun boosted Gawain off guard with his spear.