Kylo
Kelleren
They start 10ft apart on Mustafar
Bloodlusted
TROS Kylo vs Kelleren Beq (Sabers Only)
Jar Jar's Alter Ego low-diffs the fodder.
Sabers is Kylo's greatest weakness. Especially against people who have decent feats with the blade. His fodder ass struggles with featless fodder and characters that even Bossk and his own band of fodder could fight and survive against. And that's ignoring stuff how the KOR struggled again Voe, a featless fodder Padawn that had Ren screaming his lungs off, even when he had back-up against her:
And Voe also managed to stay alive against Ren and one other memeber as well. While Ren screams at the top of his lungs for his boy to kill her:
And in the same page, he is still struggling with fighting his and Voe's friend, Tai. Someone who isn't even mainly a fighter. And wasn't going for the kill because he still saw Ben as his friend. While the latter was angry and fighting seriously.
Ben/Kylo is overall extremely Garbo as a Saber duelist. And relies mainly on flowery language and words on a piece of paper talking about his skills, over good feats showing us said skills. Which has been proven over and over on multiple threads.
I mean, I'd take his dueling evenly with Rey in 9 as a feat for her
I thought we already talked about this type of logic before, and why it shouldn't be used. Because one just ends up using circular logic to scale the two characters.
For it to be a feat for character X, and not an anti-feat/a bad showing for character Y. Y must first showcase consistently good skill feats of his own for X to thus scale off of him. Which Kylo doesn't. He struggles against someone that just copy/pasted his training or whatever poor excuse they used:
But that person clearly needs to train to use it well. And isn't as familiar as he is with said skills and powerset. So basically, Kylo struggled and has to keep up with someone who has the same training he had. With the same skills he uses. But with less familiarity with said skills, and not his stats.
Rey pushing him back/hanging with him, despite him having longer time, training and familiarity with the Saber + Darkside-amp, is rather embarrassing and the definition of an anti-feat.
and in 7 he was driving her back even when he had a hole in his stomach.
He needed to be actively amped by hitting/pounding on his wound to force himself to draw on his rage to perform said feat. He overpowered TFA Rey and pushed her back via stats. Not skill. That's not a Saber skill feat. And even if we say it is, pushing back someone like that isn't anything to be proud of by PT Jedi standards.
I think he also fought off three of Luke's other students at once. Not top tier stuff, but I'm not sure I'd call them "anti-feats" either.
I, and many others, would call them that due to the amount of inconsistencies and leaps in logic necessary to make those, or any of his feats for that matter, decent.
Anyway, those three featless fodder Padawns have no feats or accolades near Knight-Tier, let alone Masters. And two of them, Tai and that other alien kid, are confirmed to not be combat-oriented/proficient or good duelists. The only one anywhere near decent with the Saber to any degree is the girl, Voe. The same Voe that makes Ren when he had back-up, screaming his lungs out and getting greatly pissed that they can't kill her:
And Tai, who got beaten easily by Ben when he had Voe & that other guy for help, later matches a serious and pissed off Ben, while Tai is holding-back because he considers him a friend and wants to save him.
Keep in mind that the same Ren later on briefly matches Kylo and keeps up with Ben, before the latter fully embraced the Dark Side to take him down.
So Voe + the other two fodders < Vastly Pre-Prime Base Ben/Kylo >= Tai/Ren, somehow.
And Ren + his fodder knights < Voe, who is stated and confirmed to be below Ben, and jealous of him.
Do you see why this scaling chain is so bad and inconsistent? The issue with trying to pretend that Kylo isn't extremely bad, is that most people who do so, just end up trying to handwave or ignore any bad showings or inconsistencies to make him & Rey look good.
And to make it even worse, Ren and his boys canonically failed to take down Bossk and his featless fodder companions. And even Bossk handily beat one of the Knights before asking for "who's next".
And to make this KOR scaling even much, much worse than before. Check this out. There's also this embarrassing statement from Soule, the writer of the comic that involves Ren & his boys, and shows how truly low they're on the food chain when compared to actual Jedi & Sith:
Soule himself is clear that the Knights collectively are not close to a jedi or a sith:
“They can all use the Force, the dark side of the Force, to varying degrees,” he reveals. “They’re not as powerful as a Jedi or a Sith, but they use it when they fight…. They have some sort of a code, like a motorcycle gang, but it’s not elaborate. They’re flexible.” Like all good galactic thugs and scoundrels, they’re in it for themselves. “Mostly they’re just kind of out to live their lives the way they want to live them and take what the galaxy will give them and eat what the dark side sends,”
There's also another interview on YT where he remarks that the Knights (including Ren) are not on Vader's level in TK, and that's as a collective. So it stands to reason that your interpretation doesn't align with their respective feats (lava level Knights vs Vader) and the opinion of the writer of the comic.
These guys are complete jokes. Same goes for Kylo/Rey's scaling chains.
Like I said, to make Kylo look good, one has to actively ignore or jump around all the pieces of evidence that say otherwise.
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