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#1 Posted by JOVIOLMA (6603 posts) - - Show Bio
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Rules

  • Random Encounter- No Knowledge
  • Canon/Manga feats only for Toshiro
  • Reiatsu=/= Aura
  • Reitasu Crush is restricted
  • Toshiro starts at Daiguren Hyorinmaru and is trying to stop Lapis from stealing the ocean from Soul Society.
  • Speed is EQUALIZED
  • Wins by Death or K.O.

Location

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Callouts

@azureus@faradaysloth@leothegreatest@ovy7@ourmanuel@wollfmyth209

Sorry, you are the only Bleach debaters that comes to mind right now.

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#2 Posted by geeman2 (2006 posts) - - Show Bio

Steven Universe characters are this good?

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#3 Posted by InvadedTBD (1592 posts) - - Show Bio

@joviolma: feats for Lapis?

Sorry don’t know much about Steven Universe.

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#4 Edited by JOVIOLMA (6603 posts) - - Show Bio

@invadedtbd: She can manipulate Water in a Planetary scale, she managed to stole most of the Earth's Ocean in some hours, she also can create clones of her adversaries that can't be destroyed by normal means, the clones also showed to be pretty close in strength as the original one, but they can't copy their techniques

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#5 Posted by ovy7 (3060 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm pretty sure I've already asked this once, but what are her durability and DC/AP like, and has she resisted her power getting nulled?

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#6 Posted by SkySanji (4819 posts) - - Show Bio

@ovy7:wouldn't Toshiros power nullification work only in verse?

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#7 Edited by JOVIOLMA (6603 posts) - - Show Bio

@ovy7 said:

I'm pretty sure I've already asked this once, but what are her durability and DC/AP like, and has she resisted her power getting nulled?

She is a Glass Canon. She is not a gem created to fight , her best physical feat was smashing a record with one hand, which only puts her at only superhuman strength, which also would obviously make this fight a mismatch since everyone knows that Toshiro is far above this, but in this scenario, Lapis is already stealing the Planet's water and creating a tower and Toshiro is trying to stop her, so this would make a more fair fight.

About AP, with water clones depending of the person and the clone created, the clone usually is near or equal in strength as the person that it is copying, but the clones never showed the ability to copy their techniques only strength.

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#8 Posted by ovy7 (3060 posts) - - Show Bio

@skysanji said:

@ovy7:wouldn't Toshiros power nullification work only in verse?

Why tho?

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#9 Posted by InvadedTBD (1592 posts) - - Show Bio

@joviolma: thanks.

Gotta back Shiro, he could just flash freeze the water tower and any clones she makes.

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#10 Posted by SkySanji (4819 posts) - - Show Bio

@ovy7: Because then it turns into a NLF case

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#11 Posted by ovy7 (3060 posts) - - Show Bio

@joviolma: So it's possible for Toshiro to freeze the clones and destroys the water tower (along with Lapis) with a couple swings. . .

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#12 Posted by cromulor (2354 posts) - - Show Bio

Didn’t Toshiro already have a fight like this with Hallibel? I’m backing him

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#13 Posted by InvadedTBD (1592 posts) - - Show Bio

@skysanji: why would it only work inverse?

The power null is a side effect of the stopping the functions of anything he freezes.

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#14 Posted by ovy7 (3060 posts) - - Show Bio

@skysanji said:

@ovy7: Because then it turns into a NLF case

Why it would be a NLF? Toshiro isn't fighting someone way above him or something like that, and if she doesn't have resistance to this then I don't see why she won't get affected by it.

It would be a NLF if Toshiro was fighting Thanos, Superman, or someone like that.

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#15 Posted by LeoTheGreatest (4759 posts) - - Show Bio

This ain’t it..

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#16 Posted by SkySanji (4819 posts) - - Show Bio

@ovy7: Okay your just talking about this fight

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#17 Edited by SkySanji (4819 posts) - - Show Bio

@invadedtbd said:

@skysanji: why would it only work inverse?

The power null is a side effect of the stopping the functions of anything he freezes.

So he knows how Kryptonians functions?

What about Darkseid?

Devil fruits?

Chakra?

Magic?

It's clear as day he's only knows how reiatsu functions which is how he's nullify their powers

That's why it's NLF

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#18 Posted by SkySanji (4819 posts) - - Show Bio

Just so we are clear I don't know who wins this fight since I haven't watched Steven universe

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#19 Posted by ovy7 (3060 posts) - - Show Bio

@skysanji: What else did you think I was talking about?

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#20 Posted by SkySanji (4819 posts) - - Show Bio

@ovy7: I thought you were saying in general

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#21 Posted by InvadedTBD (1592 posts) - - Show Bio

@skysanji: I don’t think it’s about him knowing how what he is freezing functions, where did u get that?

I think it’s more about freezing the thing entirely stopping it from working but I’ll look for a scan.

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#22 Posted by JOVIOLMA (6603 posts) - - Show Bio
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#23 Posted by InvadedTBD (1592 posts) - - Show Bio

@joviolma: Yeah lol thanks for saving me the time of having to sift thru the manga.

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#24 Posted by FaradaySloth (9980 posts) - - Show Bio
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#25 Posted by JOVIOLMA (6603 posts) - - Show Bio
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#26 Posted by FaradaySloth (9980 posts) - - Show Bio

@joviolma: Oh.

OT: Even though this chick got water powers on a planetary level, I don't see how Toshiro doesn't freeze her and her powers with his Ice Hax

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#27 Posted by SkySanji (4819 posts) - - Show Bio

@invadedtbd: Okay because you made it seem if the Ice just touches them(not completely engulf them just apart of their body) they can't use their powers

Basically Toshiro is saying he's completely freezing them so they can't break out

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#28 Posted by InvadedTBD (1592 posts) - - Show Bio

@skysanji: Sorry for the misunderstanding but yeah basically if he freezes them completely, their functions cease and it only takes him 4 seconds to completely freeze things iirc.

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#29 Posted by IndomitableRegal (16162 posts) - - Show Bio

Backing Toshiro based on all the comments above.

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#30 Posted by JOVIOLMA (6603 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump

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#31 Posted by Yhwachkingsolo (140 posts) - - Show Bio

Lapis win if she planetary

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#32 Edited by ourmanuel (11880 posts) - - Show Bio

Who actually watches Steven universe? It’s like the worse version of gumball.

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#33 Edited by JOVIOLMA (6603 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump

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#34 Posted by JOVIOLMA (6603 posts) - - Show Bio

Who actually watches Steven universe? It’s like the worse version of gumball.

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#35 Posted by deactivated-5c60dc252a2af (5801 posts) - - Show Bio

Since when has Toshiro been able to freeze attacks on a Planetary scale? If she is actually that good, she wins. Toshiro cannot freeze attacks that huuuuggggeee unless someone csn provide me with a feat of Toshiro being able to freeze stuff on a planetary scale.

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#36 Posted by JOVIOLMA (6603 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump

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#37 Posted by JOVIOLMA (6603 posts) - - Show Bio
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#38 Edited by PyroFN (6374 posts) - - Show Bio

@invadedtbd: @indomitableregal: @faradaysloth: Lapis Lazuli can control the temperature of water. Those clones of the Crystal Gems were using ice weapons. (The coloring of the weapons on clone Garnet’s and Pearl’s are more of a whitish hue in contrast to their bodies which are bluer. Then comparing it to clone Amethyst’s whip, the whip itself is more of a bluer hue in contrast to the tip gem-like pieces which are whiter) Its not the first time we see this ability. Malachite, a fusion of Lapis Lazuli and Jasper, also used Lapis control over water to make icicle spears and sent them at Alexandrite, then created an ice wall to shield against Alexandrites arrows, and finally, held Alexandrite in a water construct of two hands before turning it into ice to solidify the grip.

@ourmanuel: I do...and many others. I also like Gumball...should I feel insulted....I’m sure it’s fine.

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#39 Edited by InvadedTBD (1592 posts) - - Show Bio
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#40 Posted by PyroFN (6374 posts) - - Show Bio

@faradaysloth: @joviolma: I realize ko I said speed is equalized, but to answer faradays question:

Lapis water wings can travel from Earth to Homeworld (the gems home planet) in less than a year. Homeworld is outside our solar system as it is, so Lapis travel more than light-years away. She also was capable of traveling over distance parts of the country with Steven on her back: from rural areas to two different cities to put in the middle of the ocean. Basically, her travel distance is real fast.

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#41 Edited by JOVIOLMA (6603 posts) - - Show Bio

@pyrofn: Her flying speed is not really related to combat though, and not sure why you even tag me.

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#42 Edited by PyroFN (6374 posts) - - Show Bio

@ovy7: Don’t know what DC/ AP is, but as far as durability, the best feat I can think of is that Lapis did tank a giant ship crash without getting poofed (meaning without destroying her physical form). I’m not sure of how big the ship is, but judging by its sized compared to Beach City, it looks like it can cover almost half of the city.

Here is the Gem Warship from a sky-viewpoint:

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/steven-universe/images/5/50/Jail_Break_%2842%29.PNG/revision/latest?cb=20150314162542

Here is the size of the explosion afterwards:

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/steven-universe/images/a/a3/Jail_Break_%2843%29.PNG/revision/latest?cb=20150314162544

Here is the extent of the damage from the explosion:

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/steven-universe/images/b/b1/Full_Disclosure_004.png/revision/latest?cb=20161015134016

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/steven-universe/images/0/0d/Full_Disclosure_060.png/revision/latest?cb=20170809041800

It was wide-spread enough to reach the city. Go back to the sky-view to see a comparison of the distance from where the ship landed and where the city is:

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/steven-universe/images/c/ce/Full_Disclosure_045.png/revision/latest?cb=20161015134154

Now, that city damage shot was of Mr. Frymans shop. If you take a look at the map in the link below, you get a map of Beach City. Compare that to the first link where we see where the ship landed and you can probably guess just how far the debris traveled:

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/steven-universe/images/2/24/SU-Beach_City_Map.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20170730022511

Hope that helps.

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#43 Posted by PyroFN (6374 posts) - - Show Bio

@joviolma: To acknowledge that I saw your post about their speed being equalized, meaning Lapis travel distance is now equal to Toshiro’s.

In combat, travel speed doesn’t matter. But whose to say Lapis wouldn’t go for a hit-and-rum strategy or just straight flee? It is in-character for her to flee. The only thing working against her is that every time she tried to flee, she has gotten caught.

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#44 Posted by PyroFN (6374 posts) - - Show Bio

@invadedtbd: Maybe Tōshirō based on his experience fighting water manipulators, but if he tries to strong arm her hydrokinetixally, he will come up short. He just needs to negate her attacks on a small level and then attack her physical form.

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#45 Posted by Madscientist224 (1460 posts) - - Show Bio

Toshiro neg diffs

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#46 Posted by Hope_w (2834 posts) - - Show Bio

With equalized speed Lapis stomps. Absolutely nothing Toshiro cab do about a planet's worth of water being thrown at him. At the end of an episode she litterally turned a beach into a desert with a gesture.

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#47 Posted by InvadedTBD (1592 posts) - - Show Bio

@pyrofn: the feats you posted make me want to watch Steven Universe. Lol

Never thought I would say those words.

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#48 Posted by LeoTheGreatest (4759 posts) - - Show Bio

Is this actually being debated..?

Hitsugaya can immediately flash freeze her or seal her with Sennen Hyoro, Hyoten Hakkaso, Rokui Hyoketsujin or his unnamed cross shaped flower seal. And please tell me this isn’t actually Adult hitsugaya.

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#49 Posted by WhatamIseeing (1690 posts) - - Show Bio

what can she do with that water

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#50 Posted by deactivated-5c9011bc9c6e9 (616 posts) - - Show Bio

If she controls planetary amounts of water she should overwhelm toshiro unless he goes directly for her but speed is equalized and no knowledge so I'm not sure