• 137 results
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
Avatar image for omriamar
#1 Edited by omriamar (7068 posts) - - Show Bio

Rules:EOS Naruto and.4 Beast arc Toriko.Morals OFF.Win by all means!!!

Avatar image for chair-sama
#2 Posted by Chair-Sama (2299 posts) - - Show Bio

why is ichigo here?

naruto is understandable to be around the same battles as toriko, but ichigo?

regardless of the outcome, ichigo gets flattened pretty quickly.

Avatar image for kingguinness
#3 Posted by KingGuinness (1893 posts) - - Show Bio

Probably Hulk. I haven't read Bleach but from what I've been told Ichigo is around Island to Country Level at best with scaling and Four Beast Arc Toriko doesn't have the damage output to considerably harm Hulk even though he's much faster. EOS Naruto is their best chance and maybe he could pull something off but overall I see Hulk winning.

Avatar image for tomtheawesome123
#4 Edited by tomtheawesome123 (1530 posts) - - Show Bio

oooohhh, this is interesting. Ichigo is non factor but I have a feeling that Naruto with TSB should wear down Hulk enough for Toriko to end it.

But this is only based on ScrewAttack's info on Hulk during the death battle vs DOOMSDAY. I will brb when I do research.

EDIT: https://www.reddit.com/r/respectthreads/comments/660eoh/respect_world_war_hulk_marvel_616/

Not impressed by Hulk here, 4 beast Toriko should be able to survive for at least 2 minutes against Hulk, enough time for Naruto to TSB.

However if we wank hulk then we can say that Hulk has infinite durability and damage because he traded blows with Juggernaut :\.

Avatar image for chair-sama
#5 Posted by Chair-Sama (2299 posts) - - Show Bio

Probably Hulk. I haven't read Bleach but from what I've been told Ichigo is around Island to Country Level at best with scaling and Four Beast Arc Toriko doesn't have the damage output to considerably harm Hulk even though he's much faster. EOS Naruto is their best chance and maybe he could pull something off but overall I see Hulk winning.

ill let you know, that ichigo is far behind EoS naruto in speed/ strength/ DC/ hax.

he's arguably far behind toriko too.

EoS ichigo is literally featless, so his best feats will come from Dangai Ichigo when he fought aizen, and by hype.

Avatar image for higherpower
#6 Edited by HigherPower (12392 posts) - - Show Bio

@omriamar Swap Ichigo for Bloodlusted Saitama or someone even stronger.

Avatar image for tomtheawesome123
#7 Posted by tomtheawesome123 (1530 posts) - - Show Bio

@kingguinness:

I think Naruto should be able to take Hulk down, Naruto can fly and he has TSB, limited precog,FTL reactions and regen (he healed Guy).

Avatar image for shirso
#8 Posted by shirso (4371 posts) - - Show Bio

WWH, I don't think anybody would have the damage output to put him down.

Avatar image for masterskywalker
#9 Posted by MasterSkywalker (3609 posts) - - Show Bio

WWH wins.

Avatar image for almighty
#10 Posted by ALMIGHTY (3339 posts) - - Show Bio

WWH not a believer that TSB ‘s especially from Naruto can erase someone with planet + durability

Avatar image for akshsarpanch
#11 Posted by AkshSarpanch (3573 posts) - - Show Bio

Toriko have enough hax, speed and raw power to put Hulk down.

With naruto to stall him down, they can win with mid difficulty.

Ichigo gets flattened here though.

Avatar image for almighty
#12 Posted by ALMIGHTY (3339 posts) - - Show Bio

@akshsarpanch: 4 beast arc ??? Nah he really doesn’t, he doesn’t even have hax EOS really, he is a lot faster but as of 4 beast arc he doesn’t have the raw power to do anything at all nor does he have any hax

Avatar image for akshsarpanch
#13 Posted by AkshSarpanch (3573 posts) - - Show Bio

@almighty: forgot to read that.

The team loses pretty badly

Avatar image for marc_55
#14 Posted by Marc_55 (5857 posts) - - Show Bio

@almighty said:

not a believer that TSB ‘s especially from Naruto can erase someone with planet + durability

That would be because you're ignoring their properties, they bypass durability completely. That's kinda how hax tends to work, you know?

Avatar image for almighty
#15 Posted by ALMIGHTY (3339 posts) - - Show Bio

@marc_55 said:
@almighty said:

not a believer that TSB ‘s especially from Naruto can erase someone with planet + durability

That would be because you're ignoring their properties, they bypass durability completely. That's kinda how hax tends to work, you know?

First off the term “hax” is a term made up by fans on battle forms, everything that’s described as “hax” are just abilities and are described as abilities and every ability should have a limit. We shouldn’t a credit an ability to effect more than what it’s shown. We’ve only seen TSB’s Work on a Country lvl scale at best so that’s where they should cap out. To argue they can work on durability much greater than that in planet level because it’s a “hax” which is something made up. Is to argue things like Meliodas can Full counter a Kamehamaha from a SS Goku because it’s a ”hax” that reflects energy attacks (even tho it’s shown to work on a Multi Mountain scale at best) Law can slice Juggernaut in half because very simalair to this debate Law’s ability ignores durability (even tho this has also only shown to work on a muli Mountain scale), or Beerus can Hakai Michael Dermigrous because erases your physical, astral, and soul being (even tho it’s only shown to work on Galaxy level beings at best). Abilities should only be accredited to work on what they’ve shown to assume a TSB can work on planetary+ lvl durability especially from Naruto (I see an argument for Kaguya with ETSB) is a borderline NLF

Avatar image for marc_55
#16 Posted by Marc_55 (5857 posts) - - Show Bio

@almighty said:
@marc_55 said:
@almighty said:

not a believer that TSB ‘s especially from Naruto can erase someone with planet + durability

That would be because you're ignoring their properties, they bypass durability completely. That's kinda how hax tends to work, you know?

First off the term “hax” is a term made up by fans on battle forms,

Actually, no it's not. I was using and heard that term before ever joining these forums.

everything that’s described as “hax” are just abilities and are described as abilities and every ability should have a limit.

Yes, they should and do. Unless specifically designed not to.

We shouldn’t a credit an ability to effect more than what it’s shown.

You're very correct, and since they're noted as atomic destruction, that's where they cap.

We’ve only seen TSB’s Work on a Country lvl scale at best so that’s where they should cap out.

First, this is wrong. Second, that would literally only apply to scale. Finally, they don't focus on outright DC, and bypass durability altogether.

To argue they can work on durability much greater than that in planet level because it’s a “hax” which is something made up.

No, I'm arguing they would work because of how they've been described to work. It's just that, because of that description, they happen to be hax.

Is to argue things like Meliodas can Full counter a Kamehamaha from a SS Goku because it’s a ”hax” that reflects energy attacks (even tho it’s shown to work on a Multi Mountain scale at best)

Irrelevant.

Law can slice Juggernaut in half because very simalair to this debate Law’s ability ignores durability (even tho this has also only shown to work on a muli Mountain scale),

Actually, no. His ability is space manipulation, so if Juggs can resist that, he does. If not, he can't. Scale only shows us just that, scale. It doesn't change the nature of the ability itself. However this is irrelevant as well.

or Beerus can Hakai Michael Dermigrous because erases your physical, astral, and soul being (even tho it’s only shown to work on Galaxy level beings at best).

Also irrelevant.

Abilities should only be accredited to work on what they’ve shown

I agree, and TSB are noted as Jinton's superior, which an atomic destruction ability.

to assume a TSB can work on planetary+ lvl durability especially from Naruto (I see an argument for Kaguya with ETSB) is a borderline NLF

This is a NLF, not what I said, as they are literally just atomic destruction. As long as you have feats to resist that, or even implications, you're fine. If not, that's your problem. To assume being stronger in general means my abilities won't work is the most ass backwards argument you can make.

Also, the only difference between Naruto's TSB and Kaguya's is the scale, they are literally the same ability in every other way. So if hers would work, which they work, so would his. TSB aren't an ability that deals in DC, stop equating it to one.

Avatar image for ezraarcher
#17 Posted by EzraArcher (1164 posts) - - Show Bio

Hulk. If this is manga Toriko then something could happen but Hulk should win

Avatar image for almighty
#18 Edited by ALMIGHTY (3339 posts) - - Show Bio

@marc_55 said:
@almighty said:
@marc_55 said:
@almighty said:

not a believer that TSB ‘s especially from Naruto can erase someone with planet + durability

That would be because you're ignoring their properties, they bypass durability completely. That's kinda how hax tends to work, you know?

First off the term “hax” is a term made up by fans on battle forms,

Actually, no it's not. I was using and heard that term before ever joining these forums.

everything that’s described as “hax” are just abilities and are described as abilities and every ability should have a limit.

Yes, they should and do. Unless specifically designed not to.

We shouldn’t a credit an ability to effect more than what it’s shown.

You're very correct, and since they're noted as atomic destruction, that's where they cap.

We’ve only seen TSB’s Work on a Country lvl scale at best so that’s where they should cap out.

First, this is wrong. Second, that would literally only apply to scale. Finally, they don't focus on outright DC, and bypass durability altogether.

To argue they can work on durability much greater than that in planet level because it’s a “hax” which is something made up.

No, I'm arguing they would work because of how they've been described to work. It's just that, because of that description, they happen to be hax.

Is to argue things like Meliodas can Full counter a Kamehamaha from a SS Goku because it’s a ”hax” that reflects energy attacks (even tho it’s shown to work on a Multi Mountain scale at best)

Irrelevant.

Law can slice Juggernaut in half because very simalair to this debate Law’s ability ignores durability (even tho this has also only shown to work on a muli Mountain scale),

Actually, no. His ability is space manipulation, so if Juggs can resist that, he does. If not, he can't. Scale only shows us just that, scale. It doesn't change the nature of the ability itself. However this is irrelevant as well.

or Beerus can Hakai Michael Dermigrous because erases your physical, astral, and soul being (even tho it’s only shown to work on Galaxy level beings at best).

Also irrelevant.

Abilities should only be accredited to work on what they’ve shown

I agree, and TSB are noted as Jinton's superior, which an atomic destruction ability.

to assume a TSB can work on planetary+ lvl durability especially from Naruto (I see an argument for Kaguya with ETSB) is a borderline NLF

This is a NLF, not what I said, as they are literally just atomic destruction. As long as you have feats to resist that, or even implications, you're fine. If not, that's your problem. To assume being stronger in general means my abilities won't work is the most ass backwards argument you can make.

Also, the only difference between Naruto's TSB and Kaguya's is the scale, they are literally the same ability in every other way. So if hers would work, which they work, so would his. TSB aren't an ability that deals in DC, stop equating it to one.

Note: When i State someone is Country ”lvl” this is referring to POTENCY when described as a “Buster” that’s DC important difference because POTENCY is a scale that does apply to abilities...

1. Okay show a manga or series that refered to an ability or technique as a “Hax” the term was made by debaters online to describe abilities it’s a made up term.

2. Okay so TSB’s should have a limit to what they can effect too.

3. It’s true that it’s listed as atomic destruction, but it’s only shown to effect country level beings, it becomes a NLF to assume that since it worked on Country lvl beings that it can work on beings on multiple tiers above that. The only thing that defends this kind of Narrative is the fan made term “hax”.

4. First If I’m wrong show me where Naruto’s TSB’s the charachter in question or someone else on his level or weaker (Juubito) has effected someone with Durability greater than Country lvl, or have destroyed an area greater than Country lvl. Second Abilities should only work on the scale they’ve shown to that my point. Third should only apply to a certain extent abilities have limits.

5. No where in said description is it every described as a “hax” except by fans online, which is the only defense in saying it can work on beings on a larger tier than what it’s shown.

6. Not Irrelevant at all because it’s another example as to how ridiculous it is to argue since an ability has worked on a small scale that it can work on a much larger scale than what it’s shown. But you can choose to ignore and hand wave the point since it’s indefinsible.

7. What are you saying no for ? Did I say its not special manipulation ? I said it ignores durability which is does. And if you were looking for specifics it’s much more than just spacial manipulation but the only thing relevant to my point was the fact it ignore durability.. Now again abilities should have a scale as to how far they can effect things TO A CERTAIN DEGREE.This ability also grants him soul manipulation, Ghost Rider has defeated beings like Mephisto and Blackheart with his soul manipulation, does this mean Law can too since he has soul manip as well ? Clearly not clearly because Ghost rider has shown his abilities to work on STRONGER BEINGS, this proves his Soul manip to be more potent and powerful. Abilities are abilities but potnecy is determined by what they’ve shown to effect. Durability and Attack strength isn’t just about DC it’s also about POTENCY. And TSB‘s have not shown the POTENCY to erase beings with Planet+ durability, even tho it’s atomic destruction.

8. See 6.

9. Again Durabilty is not just based on DC and what you see destroyed, it’s also about Potency. Just because it’s atomic disintegration doesn’t mean it’s shown it has the potency to erase Planet+ beings. That would mean you believe Naruto’s TSB’s atomic destruction to be as potent as Sentry’s or Post Retcon Molecule Man’s (NOT CURRENT)

10. Your problem is you think durability and attack power is based solely on DC if you understood the concept of Potency you’d understand what I’m saying. And so what if Kaguya and Naruto both have TSB’s ? There’s examples in the series of people having the same tech/ability but one is stronger do to Potency. Bijuu Bombs for example (which are very simalair to TSB’s). Even in fiction in general, Krillin’s Kamehameha is nowhere as Powerful as one fired from Goku even tho it’s the same tech Potency matters(haki with Goku vs Beerus same ide), same thing with Haki in one piece, or The Spirit Gun in Yu Yu Hakusho, Nen in Hunter x Hunter etc.

Avatar image for marc_55
#19 Edited by Marc_55 (5857 posts) - - Show Bio

@almighty: To keep it short, they are literally atomic disintegration. If Hulk has resistance, he's fine. If not, he's not. That's really all there is to it, and the rest of that serves no purpose to me.

Also, the potency doesn't change, as it's atomically potent to begin with. It's literally just the scale, as Naruto himself says. Of course, you're free to disagree, but that's choosing to be wrong.

Avatar image for cosmic_lantern
#20 Posted by Cosmic_Lantern (5668 posts) - - Show Bio

Trade ichigo for someone else, he does basically nothing here before he gets one shotted. Team doesn't have enough to put him down long enough to seal

Avatar image for omriamar
#21 Posted by omriamar (7068 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for almighty
#22 Edited by ALMIGHTY (3339 posts) - - Show Bio

@marc_55 said:

@almighty: To keep it short, they are literally atomic disintegration. If Hulk has resistance, he's fine. If not, he's not. That's really all there is to it, and the rest of that serves no purpose to me.

Also, the potency doesn't change, as it's atomically potent to begin with. It's literally just the scale, as Naruto himself says. Of course, you're free to disagree, but that's choosing to be wrong.

It’s really not Atomic disentergration an ablility, and what he Ability has shown to effect determines its potency. Again, I don’t think you’d argue the atomic destruction a TSB is capable of is on the same level as let’s say Minority World is. Both are capable of it but one has shown to work on more powerful beings.

It‘s not DC but just because it’s not DC doesn’t mean it doesn’t have Potency, again for example Minority World‘s Atom Destruction has shown to have Planet+ Potency working on Planet+ beings. To argue TSB’s can do the same is giving it the feats MW has just because they are both Atom destruction techs.

Avatar image for marc_55
#23 Posted by Marc_55 (5857 posts) - - Show Bio

@almighty said:
@marc_55 said:

@almighty: To keep it short, they are literally atomic disintegration. If Hulk has resistance, he's fine. If not, he's not. That's really all there is to it, and the rest of that serves no purpose to me.

Also, the potency doesn't change, as it's atomically potent to begin with. It's literally just the scale, as Naruto himself says. Of course, you're free to disagree, but that's choosing to be wrong.

It’s really not Atomic disentergration an ablility,

What?

and what he Ability has shown to effect determines its potency.

What they're shown to affect are atoms....

Again, I don’t think you’d argue the atomic destruction a TSB is capable of is on the same level as let’s say Minority World is.

Destroying atoms is destroying atoms, the resistance of who they're used against is key. If you had your atoms destroyed by MW, then TSB would work, since that's all they do. If you resisted MW messing with your atomic structure, then TSB wouldn't work. It's simple, stop pretending that's not.

Both are capable of it but one has shown to work on more powerful beings.

Minority World has a myriad of uses, that don't all apply to atoms. That's just one way it can be used. Regardless, this comparison means nothing.

Avatar image for almighty
#24 Posted by ALMIGHTY (3339 posts) - - Show Bio

@marc_55 said:
@almighty said:
@marc_55 said:

@almighty: To keep it short, they are literally atomic disintegration. If Hulk has resistance, he's fine. If not, he's not. That's really all there is to it, and the rest of that serves no purpose to me.

Also, the potency doesn't change, as it's atomically potent to begin with. It's literally just the scale, as Naruto himself says. Of course, you're free to disagree, but that's choosing to be wrong.

It’s really not Atomic disentergration an ablility,

What?

and what he Ability has shown to effect determines its potency.

What they're shown to affect are atoms....

Again, I don’t think you’d argue the atomic destruction a TSB is capable of is on the same level as let’s say Minority World is.

Destroying atoms is destroying atoms, the resistance of who they're used against is key. If you had your atoms destroyed by MW, then TSB would work, since that's all they do. If you resisted MW messing with your atomic structure, then TSB wouldn't work. It's simple, stop pretending that's not.

Both are capable of it but one has shown to work on more powerful beings.

Minority World has a myriad of uses, that don't all apply to atoms. That's just one way it can be used. Regardless, this comparison means nothing.

I see my Potency argument won’t go anywhere with you so I’ll just let it go but however my point about Naruto’s TSB’s being different to Kaguya’s still stands. His TSB’s has never even shown to atomize things. His TSB’s have Nature energy in them.

“If the Truth-Seeking Balls contain natural energy, users should not be able to add ninjutsu-negating Yin–Yang Release to them, as natural energy is precisely what causes other jutsu to become immune to erasure. While its entry in the fourth databook mentions the balls being manifested by those with Six Paths Senjutsu, the jutsu itself is not categorised as senjutsu.

-Fourth Databook page 249”

So placing the Potency argument aside his TSB’s havent even shown to erase anything.

Avatar image for qwe
#25 Edited by qwe (332 posts) - - Show Bio

TSB not going to kill Hulk,he has resistance for such things

Avatar image for higherpower
#26 Posted by HigherPower (12392 posts) - - Show Bio

Can someone provide the exact scan of where it was specifically stated that Onohki's Dust release destroyed on an atomic level? Because I have trouble finding where it was stated, I only recall when it was stated that particle can reduce it's opponents to dust (which isn't close to atomization). TSB's only get their atomic argument from Hiruzen comparing it to Dust Release, so this proof is pivotal.

Most translations I've seen put it at molecular lvl (not atomic) except for one outlier-ish technique name that placed it at sub-atomic:

No Caption Provided

I don't go off of technique names though, so if someone could help me find it that'd be great.

Avatar image for termiteone4ever
#27 Posted by termiteone4ever (12855 posts) - - Show Bio

Hulk cant win here

Avatar image for qwe
#28 Posted by qwe (332 posts) - - Show Bio

Can someone provide the exact scan of where it was specifically stated that Onohki's Dust release destroyed on an atomic level? Because I have trouble finding where it was stated, I only recall when it was stated that particle can reduce it's opponents to dust (which isn't close to atomization). TSB's only get their atomic argument from Hiruzen comparing it to Dust Release, so this proof is pivotal.

Most translations I've seen put it at molecular lvl (not atomic) except for one outlier-ish technique name that placed it at sub-atomic:

No Caption Provided

I don't go off of technique names though, so if someone could help me find it that'd be great.

Onohki's Dust release never stated to be atomic level,only Molecular level

Avatar image for higherpower
#29 Edited by HigherPower (12392 posts) - - Show Bio
@qwe said:

Onohki's Dust release never stated to be atomic level,only Molecular level

In like 99% of the threads containing either TSB or Dust Release they're almost ALWAYS said to be atomic destruction. I'm just trying to find where it was stated, considering so many debaters say it's atomic and that's the general consensus.

And even if it is molecular (which isn't as potent as atomic) can you help me find the scan of where that was stated? Other than a guidebook statement I can't find the on-panel scan of where Dust Release was even stated to be molecular.

Avatar image for qwe
#30 Posted by qwe (332 posts) - - Show Bio

@qwe said:

Onohki's Dust release never stated to be atomic level,only Molecular level

In like 99% of the threads containing either TSB or Dust Release they're almost ALWAYS said to be atomic destruction. I'm just trying to find where it was stated, considering so many debaters say it's atomic and that's the general consensus.

And even if it is molecular (which isn't as potent as atomic) can you help me find the scan of where that was stated? Other than a guidebook I can't find where Dust Release was even stated to be molecular.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-QvQxRBpOaKM/WCWN5kx9yPI/AAAAAAACl1Q/JwL2fjk2sdIk4G0w-lf0PC9HiPp-SM_3gCHM/s16000/0466-015.png

Avatar image for higherpower
#31 Edited by HigherPower (12392 posts) - - Show Bio

@qwe: Thanks, I forgot about the Kage Summit arc.

Seems the atomic thing was made up then.

Avatar image for almighty
#32 Edited by ALMIGHTY (3339 posts) - - Show Bio

@qwe said:
@god_vulcan said:
@qwe said:

Onohki's Dust release never stated to be atomic level,only Molecular level

In like 99% of the threads containing either TSB or Dust Release they're almost ALWAYS said to be atomic destruction. I'm just trying to find where it was stated, considering so many debaters say it's atomic and that's the general consensus.

And even if it is molecular (which isn't as potent as atomic) can you help me find the scan of where that was stated? Other than a guidebook I can't find where Dust Release was even stated to be molecular.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-QvQxRBpOaKM/WCWN5kx9yPI/AAAAAAACl1Q/JwL2fjk2sdIk4G0w-lf0PC9HiPp-SM_3gCHM/s16000/0466-015.png

Smh that says ”NEAR molecular level” so it’s not even that much...

Avatar image for godren
#33 Posted by Godren (3757 posts) - - Show Bio

lmao it isn't even molecular based off that scan.

Avatar image for qwe
#34 Posted by qwe (332 posts) - - Show Bio

@qwe: I've seen that, I should've reworded it.

Atomic lvl

But you said you couldn't find the atomic one right? I'll just keep searching.

The name of the technique seem to be called also "atomic dismantling jutsu"(there is are alternative names like "Particle Style: Boundary Dismantling Jutsu") but the technique itself work on Molecular level,name of the attack=\= the attak,otherwise Vegata's Big Bang Attack from Cell Saga is universe level

Avatar image for qwe
#35 Edited by qwe (332 posts) - - Show Bio

@almighty said:
@qwe said:
@god_vulcan said:
@qwe said:

Onohki's Dust release never stated to be atomic level,only Molecular level

In like 99% of the threads containing either TSB or Dust Release they're almost ALWAYS said to be atomic destruction. I'm just trying to find where it was stated, considering so many debaters say it's atomic and that's the general consensus.

And even if it is molecular (which isn't as potent as atomic) can you help me find the scan of where that was stated? Other than a guidebook I can't find where Dust Release was even stated to be molecular.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-QvQxRBpOaKM/WCWN5kx9yPI/AAAAAAACl1Q/JwL2fjk2sdIk4G0w-lf0PC9HiPp-SM_3gCHM/s16000/0466-015.png

Smh that says ”NEAR molecular level” so it’s not even that much...

"At a near molecular level" mean is around molecular level,not above (atomic level)

Avatar image for higherpower
#36 Edited by HigherPower (12392 posts) - - Show Bio

@qwe: The whole technique seems to be a misconception. What's worse about it in comparison to TSB is that TSB was stated to be similar, to Dust Release, meaning it's not even as potent as it:

No Caption Provided

And now we're just finding out that Dust Release itself is near molecular lvl, (not on that lvl) and molecules are larger than atoms...

I feel scammed.

Avatar image for higherpower
#37 Edited by HigherPower (12392 posts) - - Show Bio

@qwe:

"At a near molecular level" mean is around molecular level,not above (atomic level)

How does this make sense?. Atoms are smaller than molecules. Near molecular hints that it's close to molecular but not as small as it. It's not close to atomic lvl.

Edit: I misread your comment.

Avatar image for qwe
#38 Edited by qwe (332 posts) - - Show Bio

Offical translation of the anime also say molecular level("Naruto Shippuuden" epidose 204,19:37),not atomic level

Avatar image for marc_55
#39 Posted by Marc_55 (5857 posts) - - Show Bio

@almighty said:

I see my Potency argument won’t go anywhere with you so I’ll just let it go

K.

but however my point about Naruto’s TSB’s being different to Kaguya’s still stands.

No, it doesn't. As Naruto himself disagrees.

His TSB’s has never even shown to atomize things.

Maybe because he only used them against other Six Paths characters? The same characters that are immune to that effect?

His TSB’s have Nature energy in them.

As do all TSB, in the form of Six Paths Senjutsu. That's how TSB are formed to begin with. Thank you for proving you don't know what you're talking about.

“If the Truth-Seeking Balls contain natural energy, users should not be able to add ninjutsu-negating Yin–Yang Release to them, as natural energy is precisely what causes other jutsu to become immune to erasure. While its entry in the fourth databook mentions the balls being manifested by those with Six Paths Senjutsu, the jutsu itself is not categorised as senjutsu.

Who's quote is this? This definitely isn't from the DB, as it doesn't make sense to being with. They are Senjutsu, as noted they are made with SP Senjutsu. Naruto notes only natural can work against natural energy, when confirming them to be natural energy against Obito. If they couldn't have the erasure effect with NE, Obito wouldn't have been able to make them that way. Neither would Madara, or Kaguya, or Hagoromo, or Toneri or Hamura.

-Fourth Databook page 249”

You can excuse me doubting this.

So placing the Potency argument aside his TSB’s havent even shown to erase anything.

Literally he says they are exactly the same as Kaguya's. Your argument is floundering, as it's in direct conflict with what the manga tells us and shows us.

Avatar image for qwe
#40 Edited by qwe (332 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_vulcan said:

@qwe:

"At a near molecular level" mean is around molecular level,not above (atomic level)

How does this make sense?. Atoms are smaller than molecules. Near molecular hints that it's close to molecular but not as small as it. It's not close to atomic lvl.

By "above" i means that is not Atomic level,since the rate of "what better" go from Molecular level<Atomic level<Subatomic level

Avatar image for cosmic_lantern
#41 Posted by Cosmic_Lantern (5668 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_vulcan: Ohnoki is basically forcing a chemical reaction that divides matter based on the mechanics of the Jutsu. Quantifiably speaking it has to be in that atomic - subatomic range as even if he was dispersed by molecules SOMETHING would still be left to a visible degree. We've also got Raikiri being a subatomic capability as well for being able to split a Lightning bolt as well as Naruto using his shape manipulation to sharpen air molecules in rasenshuriken.

Avatar image for almighty
#42 Posted by ALMIGHTY (3339 posts) - - Show Bio

@marc_55: Well now it’s been made pretty clear in this thread that the jutsu TSB’s are claimed to be simalair too Dust Release itself isn’t even on a Molecular scale let alone Atomic so I really don’t need to continue this debate

Avatar image for marc_55
#43 Posted by Marc_55 (5857 posts) - - Show Bio

@almighty: Meh, I was losing interest anyway.

Avatar image for higherpower
#44 Edited by HigherPower (12392 posts) - - Show Bio

@cosmic_lantern said:

@god_vulcan: Ohnoki is basically forcing a chemical reaction that divides matter based on the mechanics of the Jutsu. Quantifiably speaking it has to be in that atomic - subatomic range as even if he was dispersed by molecules SOMETHING would still be left to a visible degree. We've also got Raikiri being a subatomic capability as well for being able to split a Lightning bolt as well as Naruto using his shape manipulation to sharpen air molecules in rasenshuriken.

Yeah but this is technically just another form of speculation.

If you can find actual proof of Dust Release being stated to operate at an atomic lvl I'll shut up and concede right now. If not, anyone can create their own fan theories on the lvl that these techniques operate, but in the end said theories will be backed up by nothing other an internet user's pseudo-science logic.

Avatar image for cosmic_lantern
#45 Edited by Cosmic_Lantern (5668 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_vulcan: It's not psuedo science nor unbacked speculation actually. All it takes is a simple google search of a chemical reaction of that level (hell a nuke is a perfect example tbh) and basic knowledge of the series to correlate nature transformation.

It's no other answer for Kakashi splitting a bolt of lightning rather than splitting electrons, it's no other answer to Naruto having a attack that specifically has sharpened microscopic blades composed of wind. Not to mention most microscopic particles range within the subatomic/atomic range. I'm all ears if you have another logical conclusion to this if you have a problem with using real world variables. I just hope it can coincide with canon coherently.

PS. Onoki has stated it in the official anime and manga translation as 'fission atomic dismantling' jutsu multiple times btw, so yes you can definitely hush up now.

Avatar image for higherpower
#46 Edited by HigherPower (12392 posts) - - Show Bio

@cosmic_lantern:

PS. Onoki has stated it in the official anime and manga translation as 'fission atomic dismantling' jutsu multiple times btw, so yes you can definitely hush up now.

Scans? That's all I've been asking for. But if the attack name you're referring to I don't need to tell you why it's invalid.

Avatar image for 20damon
#47 Posted by 20damon (6118 posts) - - Show Bio

Can anyone provide scans of any on the team having anything that can put this version of Hulk down?

Avatar image for thenewguysnm1
#48 Posted by Thenewguysnm1 (7530 posts) - - Show Bio

@marc_55: SINCE WHEN DOES Hamura have tsb

Avatar image for thenewguysnm1
#49 Posted by Thenewguysnm1 (7530 posts) - - Show Bio

huh people trying to apply real world science to fiction was always gonna end bad

Avatar image for ungas123
#50 Posted by Ungas123 (319 posts) - - Show Bio

And now we're just finding out that Dust Release itself is near molecular lvl, (not on that lvl) and molecules are larger than atoms...

I feel scammed.

+1, add to the salt to the wound of TSB being similar level.