Toph vs Bolin

Rules

• EOS versions of both.
• Toph is in character, Bolin is morals off for this fight.
• Location: Earth Empire checkpoint.
• Starting distance: 20 meters.

Toph

Bolin

Callouts

Avatar: The Last Airbender/The Legend of Korra:

@dratini1331@joewell@strictlyanime@nighthunder@norrinboltagonprime21@sophia89@princearagorn1@ssj_god@funsiized@princearagorn1@ssj_god@redbird3rdboywonder@pierpat@knightofzero@lunacyde@sophia89@etheral_dreams@comicace3@dreadpool10@jacthripper@emperorthanos@oceanmaster21@newcomer@americanspeeddemon@kcminato@garrettmana@indomitableregal@jucaslucasa@cpt_nice@darth_wayne@anthp2000@marty2187@super_saiyan_devil @sanitrize1999@mial42@jaycool2@vooon@jedixman@unlimited1@geekryan@conner_wolf@king_hellstorm

Even under these circumstances, Toph can handle him pretty easily. Retraining him is an IC option too. She might struggle at the beginning if he's going all out, but he isn't powerful enough to really threaten her.

Toph schools him.

@anthp2000:

Retraining him is an IC option too.

Can Earthbenders even restrain other Earthbenders?

He isn't powerful enough to really threaten her.

Bolin has some very good feats in book 4, like lifting a giant wall that was considerably bigger than the mass of earth Toph was able to hold in the comics, although Toph obviously had to hold the earth for a much longer duration. This together with pushing the building on the colossus should place them at the same ballpark of raw power. Lavabending, of course, gives Bolin a huge advantage, so this should be a fair fight.

@amendment50: Why though? She should at least have a lot of trouble dealing with Bolin's Lavabending.

Toph Wins, not a stomp due to lava bending though

Toph. She just has more raw power than Bolin.

And she stalemated Bumi. :)

@unlimited1:

Can Earthbenders even restrain other Earthbenders?

Sure, if they're more powerful. Toph's done it to lesser earthbenders more than once, as have others. An example would be Master Yu quicksanding a sandbender in the desserted bar, or the Boulder restraining the Fire Nation man. Toph could very easily outdraw Bolin and just put him down that way.

Bolin has some very good feats in book 4, like lifting a giant wall that was considerably bigger than the mass of earth Toph was able to hold in the comics, although Toph obviously had to hold the earth for a much longer duration.

The entire point of this sequence was that Toph was holding not just the earth, but also the several tons of metalic armor of General Old Iron which, with the help of gravity, were collapsing and were going to burry everyone alive - she was bending earth and metal simultaneously. Add in the time she had to hold it up for and it's not even close to what Bolin had to do for a few seconds and barely managed to.

This together with pushing the building on the colossus should place them at the same ballpark of raw power.

Not really. There's literally a very good chance Toph could have replicated this all by herself with the same effort Bolin and her daughters put in together. Bolin had help from 2 earthbenders probably more gifted than him and still struggled more than ever before to perform this feat. Meanwhile, Toph has raised medium to large building sized earth barriers with very little effort and momentary gestures,

has competed with King Bumi, someone leagues more powerful than Bolin (admittedly I'd say King Bumi is an overall more powerful bender than Toph but this is still something far beyond most benders in Korra's era),

and of course she held up the Library of Wan Shi Tong, a huge building, for a large period of time, even while dealing with her inexperience with sandbending and at some point trying to fend off the sandbenders that were after Appa.

Lavabending, of course, gives Bolin a huge advantage, so this should be a fair fight.

Like I said, lavabending might initially catch her off guard, but this is far from enough to ensure any real advantage. Toph's 2 tiers more powerful, more versatile and more experienced than Bolin, as well as faster and before this argument inevitably coems up, Toph has shown she can sense lava during the eclipse when Aang, Sokka and her were heding towards Ozai's underground bunker.

@anthp2000:

Sure, if they're more powerful. Toph's done it to lesser earthbenders more than once, as have others. An example would be Master Yu quicksanding a sandbender in the desserted bar, or the Boulder restraining the Fire Nation man. Toph could very easily outdraw Bolin and just put him down that way.

Fire nation man and the Sandbenders are both low tier fodder, they can't really be compared to someone like Bolin, who should be able to easily free himself from such constraints. You can't really trap in the earth a man who can easily burrow into it and travel underground.

The entire point of this sequence was that Toph was holding not just the earth, but also the several tons of metallic armor of General Old Iron which, with the help of gravity, were collapsing and were going to bury everyone alive - she was bending earth and metal simultaneously. Add in the time she had to hold it up for and it's not even close to what Bolin had to do for a few seconds and barely managed to.

The fact she wasn't able to push that amount of earth upwards and free herself shows the limits of her lifting strength, the ground above her only weighed about 400 tons.

Meanwhile, Toph has raised medium to large building sized earth barriers with very little effort and momentary gestures,

That's a good feat, but the previous point still stands, Toph has shown the limits of her power when she failed to lift a weight comparable to what Bolin had lifted in book 4.

has competed with King Bumi, someone leagues more powerful than Bolin (admittedly I'd say King Bumi is an overall more powerful bender than Toph but this is still something far beyond most benders in Korra's era),

They were sparring, not fighting. Both were probably holding back.

Toph's 2 tiers more powerful

I would say about 1 tier based on the comics feat and Bolin can Lavabend anything she throws at him.

more versatile

Bolin is quite versatile himself even without Lavabending, an ability that should close the gap in versatility.

and more experienced than Bolin

Bolin participated in plenty of fights, he might actually be the more experienced fighter by EOS.

as well as faster

Why? Bolin timed real lightning in book four and Toph doesn't really have many traditional speed feats.

@unlimited1:

I won't respond to all of this, but;

The fact she wasn't able to push that amount of earth upwards and free herself shows the limits of her lifting strength, the ground above her only weighed about 400 tons.

Nope, I'm sorry that's blatantly incorrect. The entire point which you're ignoring was bending General Old Iron's armor. Read the issue again. That's why her metalbending students had to come in and help get the pieces of the armor out of there. This is tons of hard metal on top of the earth she was bending.

@anthp2000:

Nope, I'm sorry that's blatantly incorrect. The entire point which you're ignoring was bending General Old Iron's armor. Read the issue again. That's why her metalbending students had to come in and help get the pieces of the armor out of there. This is tons of hard metal on top of the earth she was bending.

I am not ignoring it, it's simply not that important, the volume of the mask is pretty small and iron only weighs about 4 times more than rock. Even when considering the weight of the mask and the iron in the ground, the total weight she lifted is still around 400 tons, 500 if we are being generous.

Toph takes it handily

@unlimited1 I take it you like LoK more than ATLA?

Dude that was not even pure earthbending, it was metalbending. Katara literally says Toph is carrying the weight of their world with her metalbending several tons. It has no merit here, won't save Bolin from anything and it doesn't invalidate Toph's consistent showings of raw power.

This really is just your way of downplaying Toph.

@anthp2000:

Dude that was not even pure Earthbending, it was Metalbending. Katara literally says Toph is carrying the weight of their world with her Metalbending several tons. It has no merit here, won't save Bolin from anything and it doesn't invalidate Toph's consistent showings of raw power.

I didn't say the feat invalidates anything or that Toph didn't lift several tons, I just said that it shows that they have comparable raw power. The rock Bolin lifted contained a lot of metal too.

This really is just your way of downplaying Toph.

I made an entire respect thread for Toph, do you really believe I would try to "downplay" her? She is an incredibly strong fighter, it doesn't mean she has no limits.

@unlimited1:

And you are factually incorrect. You're comparing Toph metalbending tons of weight for hours to Bolin raising a big earth slab for 5 seconds and ignore every other actual earthbending feat that puts her leagues outside his paygrade. You cannot possibly tell me you don't see the bias here.

And yeah I do believe you'd downplay her in comparison to LoK benders. I don't mean to be offensive, but you've shown me enough to believe that.

@anthp2000:

You're comparing Toph Metalbending tons of weight for hours to Bolin raising a big earth slab for 5 seconds

Toph had to Metalbend that weight for hours because she couldn't lift it and throw it away, the feat is very much comparable to Bolin pushing the skyscraper or lifting that rock. Toph has an advantage in power, but not an overwhelming one, especially against Bolin's Lavabending.

and ignore every other actual earthbending feat that puts her leagues outside his paygrade.

Are you referring to the feat of creating that wall? It's certainly very impressive and shows Toph has the scale advantage, but it doesn't put her out of his paygrade in power (which is not even that relevant to this fight) as the two feats I previously mentioned demonstrate.

And yeah I do believe you'd downplay her in comparison to LoK benders. I don't mean to be offensive, but you've shown me enough to believe that.

I could say you are "downplaying" LOK characters compared to ATLA ones, "downplaying" is just another term used to say that you believe a character is more powerful than what somebody else believes it is.

Toph wins with low difficulty.

The lavabending might throw her off a bit, especially if her seismic sense can’t pick it up, but it’s quite slow and she is a vastly superior earthbender.

Toph without much hassle.

Lavabending is Bolin’s only way of winning. Toph can do anything and everything he can do, better.

@geekryan: Can you please elaborate on why you consider her to be vastly superior? I am a pretty big fan of hers and I consider this to be a fair fight.

Toph wins even considering Bolin's lavabending.

@unlimited1: In every category (raw power, draw speed, skill, range, versatility, etc), Toph holds the advantage against Bolin.

Bolin is pretty mid-tier when it comes to earthbending. It’s his lavabending that makes him unique and “better” than most other earthbenders. As I said, it might throw her off a bit at first because she isn’t used to it, but it is essentially a slower but more destructive form of waterbending. We have seen that strong earth shields can stonewall lavabending attacks, and Toph’s earthbending is top notch.

@geekryan: I agree she has the raw power advantage and the versatility advantage (if we ignore Lavabending, which certainly adds a lot to Bolin's arsenal). But why draw speed? Bolin is quite fast himself. Effective range isn't that relevant in this kind of fight and skill should be a combination of these factors, not a different category.

We have seen that strong earth shields can stonewall lavabending attacks, and Toph’s earthbending is top notch.

The entire point of Lavabending when it is used against Earthbenders is to turn their shields and other constructs into "more ammo".

@unlimited1: Bolin has good draw speed, but Toph’s is still somewhat better.

She has seismic sense and metalbending, whereas Bolin has lavabending. She is also more versatile in terms of how she uses earthbending.

Although it does provide “ammo”, it’s only for projectile attacks. And Bolin hasn’t shown to effectively use this tactic against someone of Toph’s caliber.

I really don’t see him lasting more than 30 seconds against Toph.

@geekryan:

Bolin has good draw speed, but Toph’s is still somewhat better.

Based on what?

She has seismic sense and metalbending, whereas Bolin has lavabending. She is also more versatile in terms of how she uses earthbending.

Toph needs her seismic sense to "see", it doesn't provide her with more options in combat. Toph's use of Metalbending was very limited, especially when compared to her daughters. She should have only a very slight advantage in versatility all things considered if she has one at all.

Although it does provide “ammo”, it’s only for projectile attacks. And Bolin hasn’t shown to effectively use this tactic against someone of Toph’s caliber.

Lavabenders can use the lava they generate to do whatever they wish. Bolin showed he was very proficient with Lavabending by book 4 and he was surprisingly good even hours after he discovered the ability in book 3, he should be able to turn Toph's shields into lava very easily.

@unlimited1: I’m on mobile, so i can’t post anything now.

Toph has shown time and time again to be super quick on the draw, especially for environmental attacks. I’m not saying Bolin is slow with earthbending, he just isn’t as fast as Toph.

Toph almost always uses her seismic sense in combat, and it gives her a huge edge against opponents that can see and not use seismic sense. This is especially true against other earthbenders. She uses it to predict their movements and counter them.

Lavabending would be Bolin’s only real option against Toph. However, he doesn’t often use it to destroy or take down earth shields, he mostly uses it as offensive projectiles or waves, both of which can be blocked by her shields or dodged.

Toph is much more likely than Bolin to just use environmental attacks right off the bat and take him out right away. Without seismic sense, he wouldn’t be able to anticipate this.

Her metalbending wasn’t all that, but her earthbending, metalbending, and seismic sense still make her more versatile than Bolin.

Bolin

Even though I don't know about neither of them

Toph for a majority, from memory Bolin would basically put everything he has into almost simple techniques that Toph could do with ease.

@geekryan:

I’m on mobile, so i can’t post anything now.

You can simply say what feats you are referring to. If anyone here has an overall speed advantage, its Bolin.

Toph almost always uses her seismic sense in combat, and it gives her a huge edge against opponents that can see and not use seismic sense. This is especially true against other Earthbenders. She uses it to predict their movements and counter them.

It was very effective against the Earth rumble fighters, but Bolin is multiple tiers above them in power and he doesn't fight using the traditional "strong stance" style of Earthbending, instead opting to use a much faster and more evasive bending style that emphasizes staying light on your feet until your opponent exposes himself. Toph will have a lot of trouble perceiving someone like that with her seismic sense.

Lavabending would be Bolin’s only real option against Toph. However, he doesn’t often use it to destroy or take down earth shields, he mostly uses it as offensive projectiles or waves, both of which can be blocked by her shields or dodged.

And Toph doesn't often use her shields to block lava, its wrong to say he won't be able to take down earth shield because he happened to fight mostly mechs in book 4 and not Earthbenders.

Toph is much more likely than Bolin to just use environmental attacks right off the bat and take him out right away. Without seismic sense, he wouldn’t be able to anticipate this.

Toph used one environmental attack in her entire earth Rumble 6 Fight (which by the way is one of the coolest fights in ATLA in my opinion) she doesn't use them very consistently and Bolin can use environmental attacks too, by turning the ground under Toph to lava for example.

Toph

@anthp2000 said:

This sums up how I feel. Toph is just overall better. ?

Comics Toph would win solidly IMO, due to her greatly improved mobility and senses... But under these conditions I'd actually back Bolin. Morals off mean he can just spam lava at her, which her shields will not block and which she will not dodge. Toph would need to take down Bolin almost immediately to stop this, and I don't see her doing that in character.

@unlimited1:

You can simply say what feats you are referring to. If anyone here has an overall speed advantage, its Bolin.

Hardly.

• Catches someone before they fall

• Saves Sokka from a rock slide

• Raises a shield to block Mai's daggers after they're thrown

• Easily takes out 4 Dai Li agents attacking from different sides

• Grabs Aang with an earth hand

• Evades attacks and counterattacks. Does so again. And once more

• Old Toph clowns around on Korra . And again

• Hears a boomerang approaching and dodges it

These are all from a RT, but still gets my point across. She has reacted to Aang, one of the fastest characters in TLA/LOK, and an old Toph was casually faster than a non-AS Korra (although neither were serious).

It was very effective against the Earth rumble fighters, but Bolin is multiple tiers above them in power and he doesn't fight using the traditional "strong stance" style of Earthbending, instead opting to use a much faster and more evasive bending style that emphasizes staying light on your feet until your opponent exposes himself. Toph will have a lot of trouble perceiving someone like that with her seismic sense.

I disagree. If you watch this video, which includes many of his fights, you'll notice that he often tends to try and stonewall attacks. He does dodge attacks, but the majority of cases, he puts up a shield and tries to block. That won't work against Toph because 1) her raw power is greater than anyone Bolin has faced, and 2) She uses environmental attacks quite often. You'll also notice how Bolin tends to stay in one place quite often; he rarely actually moves around and stays mobile, unless it is to dodge an attack he knows he can't block, in which case Toph would get him with a follow up once he lands.

And Toph doesn't often use her shields to block lava, its wrong to say he won't be able to take down earth shield because he happened to fight mostly mechs in book 4 and not Earthbenders.

Maybe because she never fought a lavabender? Lol. On a few occasions, we've seen earth walls/shields tank some lava attacks, and these were all from inferior earthbenders than Toph.

Toph used one environmental attack in her entire earth Rumble 6 Fight (which by the way is one of the coolest fights in ATLA in my opinion) she doesn't use them very consistently and Bolin can use environmental attacks too, by turning the ground under Toph to lava for example.

Which is a very slow and telegraphed attack that she will be able to anticipate with her seismic sense.

• Attacking from beneath her target

• Launches Sokka several feet into the air

• Launches 3 people several meters into the air

• Takes the ground out from under 3 girls so they fall through a bridge

• Creates columns that slam 6 different men into a high ceiling

• Encases Azula in earth

• Old Toph knocks over a small army of mechs with an earthquake while protecting her allies from the attack

• Launches opponent into the air with an earth column

Toph uses environmental attacks way more often than Bolin does, especially against other earthbenders.

Toph having seismic sense and relying on it often puts her at a huge advantage over Bolin, who can't seismic sense or metalbend. Yes, he has lavabending, but as destructive and unique as it is, it is quite slow and highly telegraphed.

Toph even matched King Bumi, who would also destroy Bolin.

Toph wins

@djudgment said:

Toph wins

Lol i second that.

Haha the best argument of the whole thread.

But no seriously, Toph is a worthy part of the 4 elemental prodigies with Aang, Azula and Katara and in a higher tier than Bolin.

@geekryan:

Hardly.

• Catches someone before they fall

• Saves Sokka from a rock slide

• Raises a shield to block Mai's daggers after they're thrown

• Easily takes out 4 Dai Li agents attacking from different sides

• Grabs Aang with an earth hand

• Evades attacks and counterattacks. Does so again. And once more

• Old Toph clowns around on Korra . And again

• Hears a boomerang approaching and dodges it

These aren't even as good as Bolin's lightning timing in book 4.

These are all from a RT, but still gets my point across. She has reacted to Aang, one of the fastest characters in TLA/LOK, and an old Toph was casually faster than a non-AS Korra (although neither were serious).

Dai Li agents reacted to Aang and blocked his blasts too, it doesn't make them speedsters. The version of Korra Toph "fought" was weakened to such an extent that she lost to two fodder criminals.

I disagree. If you watch this video, which includes many of his fights, you'll notice that he often tends to try and stonewall attacks. He does dodge attacks, but the majority of cases, he puts up a shield and tries to block. That won't work against Toph because 1) her raw power is greater than anyone Bolin has faced, and 2) She uses environmental attacks quite often. You'll also notice how Bolin tends to stay in one place quite often; he rarely actually moves around and stays mobile, unless it is to dodge an attack he knows he can't block, in which case Toph would get him with a follow up once he lands.

Bolin dodges the majority of the attacks aimed at him, but even if he did block more, he wouldn't try to do so against a character he knows is more powerful than himself. HIs agility should not be underestimated.

In addition to that, Toph's attacks do not consistently break through shields created by high-level Earthbenders, hitting the person behind them either.

Maybe because she never fought a lavabender? Lol. On a few occasions, we've seen earth walls/shields tank some lava attacks, and these were all from inferior earthbenders than Toph.

Bolin can literally turn her shields into more Lava.

Which is a very slow and telegraphed attack that she will be able to anticipate with her seismic sense.

How is she supposed to sense Bolin turning the ground under her to lava? By the time she can "sense" the lava, it will be too late.

Attacking from beneath her target

That wasn't an environmental attack, we can see it moving the distance between the fighters.

Launches Sokka several feet into the air

Launches 3 people several meters into the air

Takes the ground out from under 3 girls so they fall through a bridge

These are out of combat feats and thus they aren't applicable to combat against high-level benders.

Creates columns that slam 6 different men into a high ceiling

That's one.

Encases Azula in earth

We can see this attack moving too, it's not an environmental attack.

Old Toph knocks over a small army of mechs with an earthquake while protecting her allies from the attack

That attack originated from one place and moved towards the mechs so it's not even an environmental attack and the mechs probably would have dodged it easily if they were aware of Toph's presence. Bolin also did something similar.

Launches opponent into the air with an earth column

Her opponent was 2 meters away. Bolin can do that too.

Toph uses environmental attacks way more often than Bolin does, especially against other Earthbenders.

You posted 2 examples, here's another one for Bolin.

toph stomps.

@unlimited1: I....I don't know what to say.

If you think dodging the Mech's electricity shots is the same as lightning timing...then oh boy

@geekryan: Why? Is the mech's electricity some kind of mystical chi attack? You also didn't respond to any of my other arguments, instead choosing to focus on this specific point, a point that is far from the most significant one in this debate, so maybe you simply don't have any good counter arguments... then oh boy.

@unlimited1: There is zero proof that electricity from the Mech or lightning from firebenders moves at the same speed as real lightning when fireblasts have been clocked at roughly arrow speeds and most of the characters in the verse barely react to those. On a consistent basis, no one in the Avatar verse is a lightning or explosion timer. Because if your claim is taken as fact, everyone in Avatar is a lightning timer via scaling. Does that make sense to you?

Dude, I’m sorry, but you need to take a hint that you may be wrong with your whole “LoK characters are all superior to TLA characters.”

I respect you as a fellow Avatar fan, but you consistently place LoK characters above TLA characters. I love the Legend of Korra series more than The Last Airbender series. Most of my favorite characters come from LOK. But it is quite blatantly clear that in the majority of cases, the benders from TLA are superior. Look at the votes on this thread. Look at the votes on most of the threads that put TLA vs LOK. Look at your Katara vs Korra CaV against Anthp. Try to be objective about this rather than be biased.

I'd say bolin. His lavabending clinches it for him.

@geekryan:

There is zero proof that electricity from the Mech or lightning from firebenders moves at the same speed as real lightning when fireblasts have been clocked at roughly arrow speeds and most of the characters in the verse barely react to those. On a consistent basis, no one in the Avatar verse is a lightning or explosion timer. Because if your claim is taken as fact, everyone in Avatar is a lightning timer via scaling. Does that make sense to you?

I agree with you here. Bolin's feat is still better though and my other points (which you didn't respond to) still stand.

Dude, I’m sorry, but you need to take a hint that you may be wrong with your whole “LoK characters are all superior to TLA characters.”

I never said that and you know it full well, but I do believe ATLA characters are overrated on this site.

But it is quite blatantly clear that in the majority of cases, the benders from TLA are superior. Look at the votes on this thread. Look at the votes on most of the threads that put TLA vs LOK. Look at your Katara vs Korra CaV against Anthp. Try to be objective about this rather than be biased.

About 85% of the voters in my CAV were biased, I even saw some of them debating for Katara in the same thread the CAV originated from, so it's no surprise they didn't vote for me, instead preferring to ignore most of my points and give vote for ANTHP with some half-assed reasoning like "you lowballed too much", whatever that means. Mial, one of the few voters who actually saw the match as a close fight beforehand and gave a detailed and logical explanation for their vote, happened to vote for me, figures. The truth is not just the most popular opinion.

@unlimited1: I’m not going to bother addressing your points when it is very obvious that you are biased and your mind can’t be changed.

If you really want to debate it, I’ll CaV you.