Tokita Ohma (Kengan Ashura) vs Aoi Todo (Jujutsu Kaisen)

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AgumonX

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#1  Edited By AgumonX
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VS

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Condition:

  • Anime feats only
  • Win via knockout
  • Fight take place at Chinatown street
  • Stat Equalized for Round 1 only
  • Round 1 Ohma can use Advance Mode , Todo cannot use curse energy, black flash, boogie woogie (handclap swap)
  • Round 2 Raian and Gensai assist Ohma. Ohma, Raian and Gensai are bloodlusted. Todo are allowed to use all abilities in anime only except black flash.

Round 1: Tokita Ohma vs Aoi Todo

Round 2: Tokita Ohma & Kure Raian & Kuroki Gensai vs Aoi Todo

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Vertigo-

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Bruh, this aint it

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AgumonX

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#4  Edited By AgumonX

@vertigo-: what do you mean? I don't know who win honestly, so if it is stomp. It is my bad.

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Vertigo-

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@agumonx: Put it this way: People below Todo solo the verse.

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AgumonX

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#6  Edited By AgumonX

@vertigo-: I don't think so that's sound like exaggerating , but anyway I don't want debate in my own thread.

What if I add Raian or Gensai to assist ohma?

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Sy8000

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Todo solos the verse. Numbers won't change anything. He's hypersonic and would kill them all in one punc.

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JoshTaku

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Dunno much about kengan ashura but from the videos I've seen, I think they are slightly above peak human? Maybe a bit higher. In which case Todo slaughters them. I might be wrong though since, like I said, I don't know much about the other verse.

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Vertigo-

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@agumonx: It would not matter. Statues cannot fight back, for starters, and he one shots them all

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SamJackson

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@sy8000 said:

Todo solos the verse. Numbers won't change anything. He's hypersonic and would kill them all in one punc.

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KingCrimson

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Todo baby-shakes.

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Sonochinosadame

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Borderline human characters vs Todo. This doesn't end well for them

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SuperPrimeTime

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#13  Edited By SuperPrimeTime

Just to re-iterate Jujutsu Kaisen has one hypersonic feat from Maki with her never again displaying that level of speed. In Kengan even Inaba has blocked bullets with his hair, Ohma blitzes him, Akoya dodged bullets point blank and yet we see this as a mismatch? Is this one of those scenarios where society is misinformed about something? Mass hysteria as they call it?

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AgumonX

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#14  Edited By AgumonX

@superprimetime: Ikr, I even nerf Todo in this matchup and give Ohma some allies, yet people still said "todo solo the verse". They underestimate Kengan too much. The borderline humans things is just unnecessary lol. I think Ohma can match Todo in Advance Mode especially in speed. Whats next? shall I make this stats equalized, and people still said Todo solo the verse?

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KingCrimson

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@agumonx: @superprimetime: I don’t know what to tell you fellas; they repeatedly mention that people in Kengan cannot actually time bullets.

Akoya, who canonically has the fastest reflexes in the verse, is explicitly stated to have a reaction time of 0.074 seconds.

Slower characters that Todo are bonafide bullet timers, and he’s way too strong.

I’ve not gotten too far into JJK, so I don’t know about soloing the verse, but he’s too strong and fast for Ohma.

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SuperPrimeTime

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@kingcrimson: @agumonx: KingCrimson I don’t remember it ever being said anywhere that Akoya only has a reaction time of 0.074.

Furthermore I said Akoya isn’t the only character to dodge bullets, Inaba has blocked automatic gun fire with his hair and Ohma blitzes him.

As for saying Todo is too fast no one in Jujutsi Kaisen is consistently hyeprsonic from one bullet cutting feat, but regardless if your going to use one feat I can mention Inaba blocking automatic gunfire.

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Morningstar999

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Lmao at nobody in Jujutsu Kaisen being consistently hypersonic...Todo blitz and oneshots going by how strong JJK is.

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AgumonX

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I will make this match stats equalised for one last time for both rounds, consistently hypersonic or not, I don't want to debate in my own thread. Let this thread die or whatever.

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SuperPrimeTime

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#19  Edited By SuperPrimeTime

@morningstar999: lol its funny dealing with you.

By all means show us another hypersonic feat from Jujutsu kaisen.

I mean I really don’t mind, my issue is the fact people are unaware that Akoya and Inaba both have bullet reacting feats.

Akoya dodged a bullets point blank as he’s a cop. Inaba who is a mercenary automatic gunfire from about 1 m away using his hair.

I think Ohma is simply close enough in speed to win.

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KingCrimson

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#20  Edited By KingCrimson

@superprimetime:

Hanafusa explained it in Akoya’s first fight against Haruo:

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And it was reaffirmed (by the narrator, no less) in chapter 105 of Omega:

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Akoya has the best reactions in the verse, and even he is only an extremely high-end aim dodger. Going by very simple scaling, and repeated statements by the narrator that nobody can react to bullets after they’re fired, Inaba’s feat can easily be chalked up to aim deflecting.

Even discounting the fact that the general level of JJK is clearly WAY above Kengan, and even forgetting Maki‘s bullet catch, Todo has an FTE speed feat that outstrips even Rei, so I don’t see the argument.

@agumonx said:

I will make this match stats equalised for one last time for both rounds, consistently hypersonic or not, I don't want to debate in my own thread. Let this thread die or whatever.

If it’s stats equalised, Ohma would kick the living shit out of him.

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SuperPrimeTime

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@kingcrimson: Do you really think the author does mathematics it doesn’t change the fact Akoya has a hypersonic feat it still happened

It doesn’t change the fact Tokita Niko redirected multiple bullets with his fist without using the advance and Tokita Ohma is superior to him

And like I said Inaba has also reacted to Automatic gunfire and Ohma blitzes him

There are more feats but to say they aren’t hypersonic is just lack of knowledge I think. I say I think cause I could be wrong. At least I’m not one of those youtubers that takes Carlos Medal’s statements literally.

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Streak619

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Ohma solos the verse, too fastz too strong, too durable, too skilled.

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AgumonX

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#23  Edited By AgumonX

Lol, we got "Todo solos verse", now we got "Ohma solos the verse". Interesting.........

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KingCrimson

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@kingcrimson: Do you really think the author does mathematics it doesn’t change the fact Akoya has a hypersonic feat it still happened

It doesn’t change the fact Tokita Niko redirected multiple bullets with his fist without using the advance and Tokita Ohma is superior to him

And like I said Inaba has also reacted to Automatic gunfire and Ohma blitzes him

There are more feats but to say they aren’t hypersonic is just lack of knowledge I think. I say I think cause I could be wrong. At least I’m not one of those youtubers that takes Carlos Medal’s statements literally.

My guy, he states people cannot dodge gunfire at least twice. You don’t see Akoya move after the gun is fired because he’s off panel. It’s entirely possible the guy shot in response to Akoya moving.

In the Niko feat, the narration literally says he‘s aim deflecting? It’s there in black and white.

Given all the other stated info in the series that these guys aren’t that fast, I think it’s pretty obvious Inaba is aim deflecting, it’s just hard to tell because it’s on one panel. We don’t see the before or after.

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SuperPrimeTime

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@kingcrimson:

It is possible Akoya moved before it was shoot but we are only shown him moving after it was fired. And if I’m being incredibly technical I’d say Akoya moved faster then the bullet we see him travel a greater distance then the smoke which is released at the same time as the bullet and moves at roughly the same speed as it’s shot out regardless.

As for Niko he wasn’t aim dodging, Niko makes it very clear that he has to connect the bullet with the hard part of his bone to be able to deflect it, and he does this with three bullets all moving at him at the same time, that’s a no brainer he’s hand had to move faster, there is no debating that one.

So even if I pretended Akoya’s feat wasn’t legit and it probably is, the other Inaba and Niko both have comfortable bullet timing feats and Ohma scales above both of them.

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JoshTaku

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@superprimetime:

Hanafusa explained it in Akoya’s first fight against Haruo:

No Caption Provided

And it was reaffirmed (by the narrator, no less) in chapter 105 of Omega:

No Caption Provided

Akoya has the best reactions in the verse, and even he is only an extremely high-end aim dodger. Going by very simple scaling, and repeated statements by the narrator that nobody can react to bullets after they’re fired, Inaba’s feat can easily be chalked up to aim deflecting.

Even discounting the fact that the general level of JJK is clearly WAY above Kengan, and even forgetting Maki‘s bullet catch, Todo has an FTE speed feat that outstrips even Rei, so I don’t see the argument.

@agumonx said:

I will make this match stats equalised for one last time for both rounds, consistently hypersonic or not, I don't want to debate in my own thread. Let this thread die or whatever.

If it’s stats equalised, Ohma would kick the living shit out of him.

yo that art looks insane. Didn't know it was that kind of style. Am definitely tempted to read it now.

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KingCrimson

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@superprimetime:

I don’t know how you can argue with repeated statements from the source material that people CANNOT bullet time, and straight up black and white values for the fastest reaction times in the verse, which are below bullet timing. Wilful ignorance at this point.

It literally explains that he’s figuring out the angle of the muzzle and the moment of fire and putting his hands in the way of the bullets ahead of time. It’s textbook.

The point of that scene is Niko using martial arts and smarts to overcome the odds instead of just straight up physicals like Ohma was attempting to do.

No Caption Provided

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KingCrimson

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@joshtaku: The manga is quality man. Definitely recommend it. The art starts off a little different than the above, but around chapter 60 onward it takes gigantic leaps; some of the best I’ve seen.

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SuperPrimeTime

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#29  Edited By SuperPrimeTime

@kingcrimson: Yes and no being able to predict an attack doesn’t make you anyless hypersonic in reactions or speed or at least for certain speciifc characters

In this case while Tokita Niko is stated to be calculating the trajectory in reality he would still need to move at hypersonic speed to be able to deflect three close range bullets all at once.

No Caption Provided

This is a scenario where the explanation is contradicted by the feat, to imply he’s not hypersonic in speed but can block three bullets at basically the same time means he‘s fist dwarfs the bullets in speed. And it’s not by a little but by a lot.

This would be made consistent by the fact even Inaba has been shown to block automatic gunfire.

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J_Normal

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How the Hell is Ohma even hurting Todo?

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SuperPrimeTime

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@j_normal: Demonsbane

A secret Niko style technique in which force of another attack is absorbed, redirected and amplified by ones own strength to hit harder the opponent harder then they hit you.

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KingCrimson

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@superprimetime: They explain he’s putting his hand in line with where the bullets are going to be *before* the guy fires, so the speed of the bullets have nothing to do with it. They could be light speed and it wouldn’t make a difference, because they literally explain he’s aim deflecting.

Believe what you want man; you’ve got your own head canon on where you want these characters to be, despite the author and the manga itself repeatedly saying otherwise. Power to you.

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pics

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#33 pics  Online

Todo is MHS, he statues and one-shots.

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SuperPrimeTime

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@kingcrimson: Once agin that’s not the case your saying he’s hands are already there.

I believed that originally but that’s not the case like I said this is one of those scenarios where the explanation doesn’t match what is actually going on.

In the scan I post on post 29 we see three bullets fired at Niko he blocks them all at roughly the sametime.

This isn’t some instance of his hand is already there, for him to perform this feat he’d actually need his fist to be travelling faster then the bullets to deflect them it’s not hard to understand. He’s actively blocking on bullet then moving his hand to block the next one that is hypersonic.

Then combined with the Inaba feat and Akoya feat it’s clear they are faster then bullets especially the Inaba feat as there is no such explanation that can be made against it, it is a flawless feat.

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SuperPrimeTime

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@pics: It was calced at borderline hypersonic not massively hypersonic.

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pics

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#36 pics  Online

@superprimetime: I have no idea what you're talking about and I don't think we're even referring to the same thing.

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SuperPrimeTime

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@pics: Oh I thought the only hypersonic feat in JJK was the one Maki performed

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#38 pics  Online
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J_Normal

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@j_normal: Demonsbane

A secret Niko style technique in which force of another attack is absorbed, redirected and amplified by ones own strength to hit harder the opponent harder then they hit you.

Has it ever worked on someone who can hit harder than this.

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SuperPrimeTime

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SuperPrimeTime

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@j_normal: I’m not sure what to think of that scan I watched the fight and you have them getting hurt by itadori and todo and they weren’t use black flash at the time. And maki doesn’t hit that hard it’s the effect of the cursed weapon. Hence why knowing how strong someone is is difficult for me. I’m ahead of the anime but I’m by no means a competent JJK scaler.

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yamatama

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With stats equal I can possibly see Ohma taking it round 1 but black flash could end it in one hit and Boogie Woogie is gonna be a huge problem even with the large skill advantage Ohma has

Round 2 is a one sided mismatch in favor of Todo who proceeds to solo the verse