Toguro runs the Espada gauntlet

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firefly894

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Younger Toguro

No Caption Provided

VS

The Espada

No Caption Provided

The Gauntlet

1. Aaroniero

2. Zommari

3. Szayelaporro

4. Grimmjow

5. Nnoitra

6. Harribel

7. Barragan

8. Starrk

9. Yammy

10. Ulquiorra

Rules

  • In character
  • HM Espada, DT Toguro
  • No prep
  • No knowledge
  • To the death
  • Takes place in the DT stadium

Round1:

  • Start in base

Round2:

  • Espada start in first release, Toguro starts at 100%

Where does he stop?

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Wushu59

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#3  Edited By Wushu59

10 or clears.

Battle Aura is basically the same thing as Spiritual Pressure, so don't think Barrgan hax would work.

I'll give it to Ulquiorra due to flight.

Have both at roughly Large Island level AP at a minimum

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Xebec

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Round 1: stops at 2
Round 2: stops at 4 most likely

Unlike most CV users i can actually use my brain, and DC/AP aren't the end all be all of powerscaling debates. Any Espada member is at the very least as fast as Toguro at his strongest, with most of them outclassing or even far outclassing him in that regard (esp from ppl like Grimmjow onwards).

Also i'd say your list is a little off, Yammy's statement doesn't hold any value due to his showing being complete ass, and i'd move Grimmjow up too (around Harribel's lvl).

my opinion = fax

ur opinion = creditless

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ovy7

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Fanfiction Toguro stomps, actual Toguro stops at 2.

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pics

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Stops at 2

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Morningstar999

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#7 Morningstar999  Online

Dies at 2.

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deactivated-607f16bec0383

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Mike_Strike10

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@ovy7 said:

Fanfiction Toguro stomps, actual Toguro stops at 2.

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FaradaySloth

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Toguro can't even beat some fraccion, he gets stomped at Round 1

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firefly894

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Toguro can't even beat some fraccion, he gets stomped at Round 1

I wouldn't go that far, the fraccion are mostly featless jobbers, who only scale to featless jobbers

The only one worth something was Ayon tbh

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FaradaySloth

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@faradaysloth said:

Toguro can't even beat some fraccion, he gets stomped at Round 1

I wouldn't go that far, the fraccion are mostly featless jobbers, who only scale to featless jobbers

The only one worth something was Ayon tbh

Not true. Edorard clearly displays better firepower feats than Toguro has ever done so. Tesra broke Ichigo's bones through raw strength, Ichigo is no selling any attack Toguro is throwing at him. Ggio wasn't being blitzed by Soifon who would statue several lightning timers (casual quint mach feat), so he'd dance around Toguro. Lilith is literally a fragment of Starrk's power, her presence alone is superior to Toguro's existence lol.

Until Since Toguro doesn't have any feats above the Fraccion's pay grade, he's getting stomped by Aaroniero alone.

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Raziel2014

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#13  Edited By Raziel2014
@faradaysloth said:
@firefly894 said:
@faradaysloth said:

Toguro can't even beat some fraccion, he gets stomped at Round 1

I wouldn't go that far, the fraccion are mostly featless jobbers, who only scale to featless jobbers

The only one worth something was Ayon tbh

Not true. Edorard clearly displays better firepower feats than Toguro has ever done so. Tesra broke Ichigo's bones through raw strength, Ichigo is no selling any attack Toguro is throwing at him. Ggio wasn't being blitzed by Soifon who would statue several lightning timers (casual quint mach feat), so he'd dance around Toguro. Lilith is literally a fragment of Starrk's power, her presence alone is superior to Toguro's existence lol.

Until Since Toguro doesn't have any feats above the Fraccion's pay grade, he's getting stomped by Aaroniero alone.

i would not go as far as to say all Fracciones can beat toguro however Edorad leones is not one of them as he is only a Mid tier Fraccion with Town Level Feats, if it was 80% Toguro then yes i can say that most of the Fraccion would indeed be able to fight him and put up a fight but 100% Toguro is far far superior to 80%, he treated Yusuke like a child.

Top tier Fracciones = Poww, Ggio, -> Ggio easily crush a Vice Captain/Omaeda Shikai with a common strike like Ichigo did back in SS,

High Tier Fracciones = Tesra, Tres Bestias -> Comparable to a Shikai Vice Captain while in Base, 5-10x stronger with Resurrection, Tesra easily caught Chad strongest Punch that previously One shot a Privaron Espada while in Base, Halibel Fraccion matched Shikai HInamori/Matsumoto while also in base.

Mid Tier Fracciones = Edorad, Yllfort, Charlote, Abirama Redder, Findor -> Inferior to a Vice Captain Shikai.

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Bossmountain

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#14  Edited By Bossmountain

@raziel2014: @faradaysloth: some actually took the effort to cal a lot of the major feats for Bleach and Yu Yu hakusho. the result might surprise you but.

yeah Togoru ain't solo anything..

fun fact there are no feats in the heuco mundo arc that actually tops Yusuke's full potential Spirit gun at 67.49 Kilotons until we get to Ulquiorra.

which is Ulquiorra’s Lanza Del Relampago - 491.93 Kilotons

Yamamoto’s Single Enetsu Jigoku – 12.87 Kilotons

Yamamoto’s Enetsu Jigoku (Combined) – 90 Kilotons

All of Yamamoto’s Flames (Statement) – 96.3 Megatons

ICHGIO VS AIZEN

Ichigo Vaporizes a Crag – 112.89 Kilotons

Aizen’s Sword Swing – 123.3 Kilotons

Aizen’s Fragor – 6.3 Gigatons

Ichigo Swats Away Six Fragors – 37.79 Gigatons

https://cablescalculations.wordpress.com/category/bleach-calculations/

https://cablescalculations.wordpress.com/category/yu-yu-hakusho-calculations/

Black Dragon Punches Bui Through Stadium Roof – 68.256 tons TNT

Total Energy Generated By Black Dragon/Bui Durability – 942.902 tons TNT

Toguro Lifts the Ring – 7.35 kg TNT

Toguro Lift + Carry of Ring – 11.998 Kg TNT, total energy burned

Base Toguro Punch – 438.58 Tons-Force or 640 Grams of TNT

80% Toguro Ring Busting Punch – 17.845 tons TNT

Yusuke Cuffed Rei Gun – 672.454 tons TNT

Toguro 100% Power Up – 2.976 Kilotons

Yusuke Full Potential Rei Gun – 67.49 Kilotons

Ulquiorra’s Cero Oscuras – 11.15 Megatons

Ulquiorra/ Vasto Lorde Ichigo Cero Clash – 1.37 Megatons

Ulquiorra’s Lanza Del Relampago – 491.93 Kilotons

Vasto Lorde Ichigo’s Cero – 2.73 Megatons

in terms of pure feats Toguro strength at 100% surpasses Grimmjow buuuut Grimmjow as better statements.

Toguro 100% Power Up was measure as at 2.976 Kilotons

Grimmjow’s Garra De La Pantera – 551.11 Tons of TNT

5 Garra De La Panteras – 2.76 Kilotons

just the force of Toguro powering up is greater than 5 of Grimmjows garra de la pantera.

https://cablescalculations.wordpress.com/category/bleach-calculations/

Toguro would stop at 7 due to lack of speed. and less impressive statement. but in terms of dumb raw power he's espada level for sure.

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ovy7

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The only one worth something was Ayon tbh

Ayon would actually wreck like half of the Espada, depending on the version. TYBW Ayon was shitting on Vollstandich Quilge.

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FaradaySloth

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@raziel2014: I’m just calling the shots the way I see it.

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FaradaySloth

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@bossmountain: stopped reading at the Yamamoto calculations, vaporizing dozens of kilometers is tiers above double digit megatons. Try harder Bossmountain.

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Bossmountain

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@bossmountain: stopped reading at the Yamamoto calculations, vaporizing dozens of kilometers is tiers above double digit megatons. Try harder Bossmountain.

LOl i love your only way debunk to calculations that contradict you is just to not look at them and tell the person to try again. X'D willful ignorance.

so here are the details.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

The office building appears to be five stories high. Five stories is 16.5 m. The building is 20 pixels compared to 441 for diameter of blast.

441 / 20 = 22.05 * 16.5 = 363.825 m, diameter of fire blast.

Using Taylor’s Law, we can figure out the explosive yield.

E = 8*pi*p*R^5 / [75(y-1)t^2]

Where p is density of the air, t is time after explosion has formed, R is radius of the explosion. y is specific heat ration (Will be using 1.4 here as is common)

For time, I’ll be using the speed of the explosion. A shockwave looks to have hit the buildings in from of the flames, so I’ll treat it as a high explosive. The minimum detonation velocity of a high explosive is 3,000 m/s.

363.825 / 2 = 181.913 m, radius of explosion.

181.913 / 3000 = .061 s, time frame.

8 * 3.14 * 1.2 * 181.913^5 / [75(1.4 – 1).061^2] = 53,794,594,302,462.375 J, or 12.87 Kilotons

For all seven combined…

53,794,594,302,462.375 * 7 = 376,562,160,117,236.625 J, or 90 Kilotons

It’s worth noting, however, that Yamamoto needed prep time. Worth noting even more is that these pillars of flame stick around for a while. So it may be more accurate to say that they take up 12.87 Kilotons per *Insert time frame here*

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FaradaySloth

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@bossmountain:

LOl i love your only way debunk to calculations that contradict you is just to not look at them and tell the person to try again. X'D willful ignorance.

so here are the details.

You should probably read the message of what my profile says, as it applies to you. I'll entertain you briefly considering the last experience I had with you, you kept denying what the manga said in relation to Ichigo's feat.

The office building appears to be five stories high. Five stories is 16.5 m. The building is 20 pixels compared to 441 for diameter of blast.

441 / 20 = 22.05 * 16.5 = 363.825 m, diameter of fire blast.

Pixel scaling is an outdated way of debating, like I already told you. The only reason why I posted that site to Wushu prior was to show a vast difference of opinions when it came to YYH power scaling. bringing in the doubt of his certainty. Bleach however is much different than YYH, having tons more of feats, statements, scaling, etc. to back up the levels being claimed.

But I'll use the numbers here, just to show you how bad this calculation was.

Using Taylor’s Law, we can figure out the explosive yield.

E = 8*pi*p*R^5 / [75(y-1)t^2]

Where p is density of the air, t is time after explosion has formed, R is radius of the explosion. y is specific heat ration (Will be using 1.4 here as is common)

Weird to use Taylor's Law, especially when the air density should be different given the fact it was nearly impossible for regular hollows to preform any duties due to the impending Reiatsu of that area, keep in mind they were 13 Miles away.

To use ideal gas laws in an undisturbed location and applying it here? No bueno, makes zero sense, but since gas physics are on crack 100% of the time, we'll just have to learn to accept with 1.4 atm.

For time, I’ll be using the speed of the explosion. A shockwave looks to have hit the buildings in from of the flames, so I’ll treat it as a high explosive. The minimum detonation velocity of a high explosive is 3,000 m/s.

Nope. Nope. Wrong. Nada. Zip. 0/100. Pretty much you're assuming the most arguable strongest character in the series (at that point in time) in Bleach had a Hypersonic level attack, which is comical. Not to mention you're using the minimum detonation velocity of irl explosions to a Yamamoto's Shikai's named attack. Lmao, what a shit way of thinking. Yamamoto's Shikai when first introduced with just passive heat was able to turns anything it touched to ash and alter the sky itself drastically:

No Caption Provided

What any irl explosive can even replicate that, just passively? For Ennetsu Jigoku, it was clearly fast enough to catch Aizen himself off guard:

No Caption Provided

Considering the previous page, Ennetsu Jigoku was completely sudden, meaning it'd scale above any attack that Aizen would ever react to, which would be as high as quint or six-digit mach. I'll just use the slowest quint mach of all time, being Mach 10K, or rather 3430000 m/s for a much more accurate equation.

363.825 / 2 = 181.913 m, radius of explosion.

181.913 / 3000 = .061 s, time frame.

Altering this as I go for consistency sake

363.825 / 2 = 181.913 m, radius of explosion.

181.913 / 3430000 = 0.000053 s, time frame.

8 * 3.14 * 1.2 * 181.913^5 / [75(1.4 – 1).061^2] = 53,794,594,302,462.375 J, or 12.87 Kilotons

E = 8*pi*p*R^5 / [75(y-1)t^2]

E = 8 * 3.14 * 1.2 * 181.913^5 / [75(1.4-1).000053^2]

PEMDAS baby

8 * 3.14 * 1.2 * 181.913^5 / [75(-0.4).000053^2]

8 * 3.14 * 1.2 * 181.913^5 / (-30 * .000000002809)

8 * 3.14 * 1.2 * 181.913^5 / (-30 * .000000002809)

8 * 3.14 * 1.2 * 181.913^5 / .00000008427

8 * 3.14 * 1.2 * 199213460788 / .00000008427

25.12 * 1.2 * 199213460788 / .00000008427

30.144 * 199213460788 / .00000008427

6005090600000 / .00000008427

= 7.1260123e+19 joules or rather 17 Gigatons...and this is an extremelylowballed estimate as you're assuming Ennetsu Jigoku's speed is slower than practically most of the Espada's attacks at this time, so pretty obviously, big lol.

Calculator result btw:

No Caption Provided

inb4 any dumb accusations

So already, by adding it an extremely more accurate time slot alone (not even counting the problem of specific heat ratio, air density, etc. at a place that's simply built different from natural standards), we can see how larger the attack becomes, and honestly one pillar being island level isn't saying much in Bleach, so it's not an outlier at all.

For all seven combined…

Seven? Bro, we don't even see the full thing, at least boost it up to 10 to complete a near circle lol.

53,794,594,302,462.375 * 7 = 376,562,160,117,236.625 J, or 90 Kilotons

Not typing all the numbers out again so call it like it is, 17 * 10 = 170 Gigatons or Large Island level, and this was simply just a fraction of Yamamoto's power in Shikai, here we will go to how powerful his flames are in the statement by Aizen:

No Caption Provided

Here Aizen is saying that Yamamoto would pretty turn an area many times the size of KKT into ash, proven since 何倍も = manifold/many times. I've already done a calc of this and since I'm in a rush irl, I'll just copy and paste this here:

Yamamoto Ryujin Jakka power: it was shown/stated that it was destroy (probably vaporize considering it’s Yamamoto) Karakura Town many times over, unlike Ovy I’m going to use 4 times the size instead of 3 (3 doesn’t sound like “many” at all) as well as not 8 KM, but 13 KM scaling from Gin’s Bankai. Like Ovy pointed out the shape of it is hemisphere like, so the volume of that would be. The radius of this would be 26 Kilometers (52 in diameter since 13 x4 = 52), the equation for a hemisphere volume calculator is ⅔ x pi x radius (26) meaning the volume of the explosion would be 36,811,088,300,000 cubic meters or 36,811,088,300,000,000,000 cubic centimeters. Vaporization for rock is 25700 j/cc, so 25700 x 36811088300000000000 = 946,044,969,000,000,000,000,000 joules or 226.1 Teratons or Large Country level

Yeah, that's why I didn't take the calculation seriously when vaporizing multiple kilometers worth of land was double digit Megatons lmao.

It’s worth noting, however, that Yamamoto needed prep time. Worth noting even more is that these pillars of flame stick around for a while. So it may be more accurate to say that they take up 12.87 Kilotons per *Insert time frame here*

Lmao bruh that's not how this works, but I'm not going to waste time on that.

Till next time Bossmountain, gg.

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Bossmountain

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@faradaysloth: You should probably read the message of what my profile says, as it applies to you. I'll entertain you briefly considering the last experience I had with you, you kept denying what the manga said in relation to Ichigo's feat.

You mean that time where you insisted the "sea" ichigo vaporized was as deep as an ocean in spite of fact the manga shown us the depth of it and it's clearly not? Little advice is that a statements that are directly contradicted by visual should be taken with a grain salt. It's called having common sense. Statements claiming a lake that was directly shown to be more shallow than the dead sea is deeper than an ocean obvious exaggerating.

tldr: obvious exaggerations are obvious stop taking them at face value.

Pixel scaling is an outdated way of debating, like I already told you. The only reason why I posted that site to Wushu prior was to show a vast difference of opinions when it came to YYH power scaling. bringing in the doubt of his certainty. Bleach however is much different than YYH, having tons more of feats, statements, scaling, etc. to back up the levels being claimed.

But I'll use the numbers here, just to show you how bad this calculation was.

Using Taylor’s Law, we can figure out the explosive yield.

E = 8*pi*p*R^5 / [75(y-1)t^2]

Where p is density of the air, t is time after explosion has formed, R is radius of the explosion. y is specific heat ration (Will be using 1.4 here as is common)

Weird to use Taylor's Law, especially when the air density should be different given the fact it was nearly impossible for regular hollows to preform any duties due to the impending Reiatsu of that area, keep in mind they were 13 Miles away.

To use ideal gas laws in an undisturbed location and applying it here? No bueno, makes zero sense, but since gas physics are on crack 100% of the time, we'll just have to learn to accept with 1.4 atm.

So you're saying this is magical fire regarding normal fire and heat shouldn't apply to it, fine.

Nope. Nope. Wrong. Nada. Zip. 0/100. Pretty much you're assuming the most arguable strongest character in the series (at that point in time) in Bleach had a Hypersonic level attack, which is comical. Not to mention you're using the minimum detonation velocity of irl explosions to a Yamamoto's Shikai's named attack. Lmao, what a shit way of thinking. Yamamoto's Shikai when first introduced with just passive heat was able to turns anything it touched to ash and alter the sky itself drastically:

What any irl explosive can even replicate that, just passively? For Ennetsu Jigoku, it was clearly fast enough to catch Aizen himself off guard:

Considering the previous page, Ennetsu Jigoku was completely sudden, meaning it'd scale above any attack that Aizen would ever react to, which would be as high as quint or six-digit mach. I'll just use the slowest quint mach of all time, being Mach 10K, or rather 3430000 m/s for a much more accurate equation.

You need to understand that the person who is doing these measurements for both Yu Yu hakusho and Bleach is not using scaling or stacking calculations(taking a character speed cal from 1 feat and applying to a new one) like what you're doing now.

a feat should stand on it's own merit according to them.

ltering this as I go for consistency sake

363.825 / 2 = 181.913 m, radius of explosion.

181.913 / 3430000 = 0.000053 s, time frame.

8 * 3.14 * 1.2 * 181.913^5 / [75(1.4 – 1).061^2] = 53,794,594,302,462.375 J, or 12.87 Kilotons

E = 8*pi*p*R^5 / [75(y-1)t^2]

E = 8 * 3.14 * 1.2 * 181.913^5 / [75(1.4-1).000053^2]

PEMDAS baby

8 * 3.14 * 1.2 * 181.913^5 / [75(-0.4).000053^2]

8 * 3.14 * 1.2 * 181.913^5 / (-30 * .000000002809)

8 * 3.14 * 1.2 * 181.913^5 / (-30 * .000000002809)

8 * 3.14 * 1.2 * 181.913^5 / .00000008427

8 * 3.14 * 1.2 * 199213460788 / .00000008427

25.12 * 1.2 * 199213460788 / .00000008427

30.144 * 199213460788 / .00000008427

6005090600000 / .00000008427

= 7.1260123e+19 joules or rather 17 Gigatons...and this is an extremelylowballed estimate as you're assuming Ennetsu Jigoku's speed is slower than practically most of the Espada's attacks at this time, so pretty obviously, big lol.

Calculator result btw:

inb4 any dumb accusations

So already, by adding it an extremely more accurate time slot alone (not even counting the problem of specific heat ratio, air density, etc. at a place that's simply built different from natural standards), we can see how larger the attack becomes, and honestly one pillar being island level isn't saying much in Bleach, so it's not an outlier at all.

Again this is calculation stacking and is seen as less reliable

Yeah, that's why I didn't take the calculation seriously when vaporizing multiple kilometers worth of land was double digit Megatons lmao.

Again these calculations on this blog don't used scaling or calculation scaling.

and my point still stand aside from Aizen Ichigo Ulquiorra and yamato there isn't any destruction feats that tops full potential yusuku reigan.

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crxckerkiid

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Stops at 4, with wank maybe a little higher.

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FaradaySloth

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#22  Edited By FaradaySloth

@bossmountain:

You mean that time where you insisted the "sea" ichigo vaporized was as deep as an ocean in spite of fact the manga shown us the depth of it and it's clearly not? Little advice is that a statements that are directly contradicted by visual should be taken with a grain salt. It's called having common sense. Statements claiming a lake that was directly shown to be more shallow than the dead sea is deeper than an ocean obvious exaggerating.

tldr: obvious exaggerations are obvious stop taking them at face value.

TLDR: "Yeah I got slapped since statements about the depth and size of the area clearly contradict what I said. Manga pages also never showed the full size, rendering my claim baseless from the start. And even with real life science it's apparent that I am wrong but I choose to die on a hill much to everyone's amusement."

So you're saying this is magical fire regarding normal fire and heat shouldn't apply to it, fine.

You mean to throw in reasonable doubt of a claim that states that Nukes>>>Yamamoto?

No Caption Provided

You need to understand that the person who is doing these measurements for both Yu Yu hakusho and Bleach is not using scaling or stacking calculations(taking a character speed cal from 1 feat and applying to a new one) like what you're doing now

Then they're incredibly stupid, how tf can a Top Tier's feat be slower than a Mid Tier's speed? Especially when that feat is clearly faster than other Top Tiers reactions. In fact, that's not genuine or honest to assume Yamamoto's feat is that slow when it's >Aizen's reactions who's>>>>>>>>>>>Lightning timers

Like...bro...you're admitting the guy you're using is purposely downplaying these feats by INSANE levels.

Again this is calculation stacking and is seen as less reliable

BRUHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

I've seen it all. It's more reliable now to say Yamamoto's attacks can be dodged by low tiers in Bleach. Also using objective math (PEMDAS) isn't reliable anymore.

Again these calculations on this blog don't used scaling or calculation scaling.

and my point still stand aside from Aizen Ichigo Ulquiorra and yamato there isn't any destruction feats that tops full potential yusuku reigan.

You somehow got worse over the last time I met you. Bro....just stop...

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Bossmountain

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#23  Edited By Bossmountain
No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

@faradaysloth: while the Mangal never shows us the full width of the "sea" very vividly shows us the depth but I can still see that you're in denial and butt hurt over it so...

"Then they're incredibly stupid, how tf can a Top Tier's feat be slower than a Mid Tier's speed? Especially when that feat is clearly faster than other Top Tiers reactions. In fact, that's not genuine or honest to assume Yamamoto's feat is that slow when it's >Aizen's reactions who's>>>>>>>>>>>Lightning timers

Like...bro...you're admitting the guy you're using is purposely downplaying these feats by INSANE levels"

Refusing calulation stacking and calulation scaling isn't insane. Because the person who's doing these calculations aren't doing so for the sake of winning some versus debate. he's just taking these individual feats and calculating them under its own Merit without relying on power scaling.

Essentially Basing an attack speed off the distance is traveled as opposed to the characters who could or couldn't react to it. Because the former is far more quantifiable than the latter

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Dramus17

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Clears or stops at ulquiorra

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FaradaySloth

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@bossmountain:

while the Mangal never shows us the full width of the "sea" very vividly shows us the depth but I can still see that you're in denial and butt hurt over it so...

How can I be in denial over something that was never confirmed lol

Refusing calulation stacking and calulation scaling isn't insane.

First off, this isn't calc stacking. But even if it was, I'm not wrong. Do you not see how f**king asinine it is to assume Yamamoto's attacks are slower than low tiers reaction and combat? Your. Calc. Is. Wrong. There is nothing debatable about this. Amazing how your previous message accused me of not providing enough substance for a counter and yet you're pulling this bullshit. Just F off mate.

Because the person who's doing these calculations aren't doing so for the sake of winning some versus debate.

Yes he's doing it for the sake of being inaccurate and wrong.

he's just taking these individual feats and calculating them under its own Merit without relying on power scaling.

Don't know how much I can say it, but he's 100% wrong. Not debatable, no subjectivity, he's wrong. Your calc is completely unreliable for the mere basis of assuming the conditions for the feat were natural and for assuming it moves at hypersonic speeds despite on-panel feats contradicting this.

Essentially Basing an attack speed off the distance is traveled as opposed to the characters who could or couldn't react to it. Because the former is far more quantifiable than the latter

There was nothing different that I did instead of making the timeframe extremely more accurate. Get off your f**king high horse and concede.

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FaradaySloth

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@faradaysloth: what's Toguro's feats again?

Scaling, scaling, scaling, some potency, creating a small crater with a punch directly into the ground, etc.

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EpicHotFlame

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@epichotflame: From what i remember, (weaker than 100%) Toguro got busted through a mountain by restrained Yusuke, and than was tanking attacks from unrestrained Yusuke

I don't do levels anymore, but to put it in your perspective, mountain+, or something like that

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Bossmountain

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@faradaysloth: "How can I be in denial over something that was never confirmed lol"

Never confirmed? The "sea" depth was shown on panel how can you be in denial of something that was shown on screen?

"First off, this isn't calc stacking. But even if it was, I'm not wrong. Do you not see how f**king asinine it is to assume Yamamoto's attacks are slower than low tiers reaction and combat? Your. Calc. Is. Wrong. There is nothing debatable about this. Amazing how your previous message accused me of not providing enough substance for a counter and yet you're pulling this bullshit. Just F off mate"

It is calculation stacking not using the speed that was shown your instead scaling the attack speed to the speed of attacks used prior.

It isn't wrong but you're still ultimately relying on power scaling at point. something that you accuse Yu Hakusho fans of relying too much on.

"Yes he's doing it for the sake of being inaccurate and wrong."

No he's just doing raw measurements no statements or scaling and having that speak for itself.

The guy I miss that a character stats could be much stronger than what was shown in that these measurements are just should be used as a baseline for feats.

"Don't know how much I can say it, but he's 100% wrong. Not debatable, no subjectivity, he's wrong. Your calc is completely unreliable for the mere basis of assuming the conditions for the feat were natural and for assuming it moves at hypersonic speeds despite on-panel feats contradicting this."

If you want to argue. Yamamoto Flames is Magic fire it doesn't apply by the physical laws that apply to normal fire that's fine. Bruh you can argue that the attack was faster due to scaling.

"There was nothing different that I did instead of making the timeframe extremely more accurate. Get off your f**king high horse and concede."

Concede on wait? My point still stand.

In terms of just Raw on panel. 100% Elder Toguro passive destruction feats are better than Grimmjows. Epsada 4 still passively vaporizes him.

None of none of the other arrancar for the exception of Epsade 4 (casual attacks are over 400 kilotons) have feat that actually surpass Full potential Yusuke final reigun at 67 kilotons.

You're right when there was a one fraccion with a feat of 61 kiloton. Still weaker Yusuke reigun. And you could argue it's an outlier.

But At that point you would have to scale espada attack power beyond that.

And At that point you be relying 100% on scaling scaling scaling and statements.

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Sauce_God31

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Probably stops at ulquiorra

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Morningstar999

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Still dies at 2.

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FaradaySloth

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@bossmountain:

Never confirmed? The "sea" depth was shown on panel how can you be in denial of something that was shown on screen?

Ok show me the exact depth that is given from the canon/creator themselves. Go on, I'll wait.

It is calculation stacking not using the speed that was shown your instead scaling the attack speed to the speed of attacks used prior.

The speed isshown through being faster than Aizen's reactions. Your dismissal over canon is amusing nonetheless. Thanks for playing.

It isn't wrong but you're still ultimately relying on power scaling at point. something that you accuse Yu Hakusho fans of relying too much on.

I've already highlighted this in other threads, Bleach is YYH but better in every imaginable way.

Feats? Bleach has them consistently.

Statements? Bleach has them consistently.

Scaling? Consistent from Chapter 1 to Chapter 686.

Intent? Clear as day and consistent.

YYH simply doesn't have what Bleach has, anyone who has read the series with an open mind will think this, and not even for YYH vs Bleach, but for Naruto, One Piece, Fodder Tale, Magi, etc. any series. Maybe it hurts since the series is only 175 chapters long, who knows, but objectively YYH is just a weaker verse.

No he's just doing raw measurements no statements or scaling and having that speak for itself.

So it's inaccurate and unreliable, and best of all, headcanon?

The guy I miss that a character stats could be much stronger than what was shown in that these measurements are just should be used as a baseline for feats.

So the baseline would be inaccurate, unreliable, and just headcanon?

In terms of just Raw on panel. 100% Elder Toguro passive destruction feats are better than Grimmjows. Epsada 4 still passively vaporizes him.

Ok show the feats then. How many times must this be said to any person on any YYH thread.

None of none of the other arrancar for the exception of Epsade 4 (casual attacks are over 400 kilotons) have feat that actually surpass Full potential Yusuke final reigun at 67 kilotons.

The memes of saying Espada are sub-city level. The memes.

You're right when there was a one fraccion with a feat of 61 kiloton. Still weaker Yusuke reigun. And you could argue it's an outlier.

Nah a Fraction being around sub-city level is very much so consistent in the story, nice to know that Yusuke's Reigun is near that level.

But At that point you would have to scale espada attack power beyond that.

Done so.

And At that point you be relying 100% on scaling scaling scaling and statements.

Nope, plenty of feats in the story.

  • Aaroniero=33K Hollows
  • Szayel no selling the destruction of his palace
  • Grimmjow's GRC, Desgarron, and distorting space
  • Nnoitra no selling Kenpachi's attacks, prior to this Kenny uprooted island level mass by skydiving
  • Ulquiorra Cero Oscuras, Lanza, etc. + confirmed to destroy Las Noches
  • Tier being a Vasto Lorde + confirmed to destroy Las Noches
  • Barragan tanking Soifon's Bankai, Respira, etc. + confirmed to destroy Las Noches
  • Starrk Cero Metralleta, fighting four Captains, etc. + confirmed to destroy Las Noches
  • Yammy Cero engulfing the landscape + confirmed to destroy Las Noches

All feats.

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Morningstar999

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@faradaysloth: Dunno why many deny the GRC to be large island busting at least. There is literally a statement from Ulquiorra, saying that it can destroy Las Noches, which is large island/small country sized. Cero Oscuras is LN busting...hell, any GRC is Las Noches busting. And people are hypocrites in using AP for YYH, and downplay Bleach AP based attacks(because Bleach is obviously AP based lmao), to say that GRC didn't even destroy a pillar lol. I've heard that Toguro is supposed to be island level, yet I've never seen an island level feat/statement posted. Just scaling and scaling. I don't think YYH is weak, but damn by YYH logic of Yusuke being planet busting, Ichigo is multi planetary lol.

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FaradaySloth

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@faradaysloth: lol so what lvl is he?

I'd say town-city at best.

@epichotflame: From what i remember, (weaker than 100%) Toguro got busted through a mountain by restrained Yusuke, and than was tanking attacks from unrestrained Yusuke

I don't do levels anymore, but to put it in your perspective, mountain+, or something like that

Don't fall for this misleading post, they're referring to this feat:

Here Toguro gets rammed through a fairly building to large building size arena, gets thrown through a forest, and stops somewhere in that forest. He has never been busted through a mountain, that is actually a lie lol, not open to interpretation.

IIRC this was him at 80% as well.

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Bossmountain

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@faradaysloth:

@faradaysloth: "Grimmjow's GRC, Desgarron, and distorting space"

Completely unquantifiable with characters in Fist of the North Star that can distort space with their attacks. Country + Kenshiro comfrimed.

Yammy Cero engulfing the landscape + confirmed to destroy Las Noches

2,843,454,553.317 + 318,417,708.224 = 3,161,872,261.541 J, or 755.706 Kg of TNT

*Sniffs* Smell that? That’s the smell of disappointment!

Ironic how the fraccion feat s actually better than Yammay final grand cero unless of course you resort to scaling and calulation stacking.

And is hilariously below Yusuke final reigun.

The only argument for it being stronger is scaling and statement of course.

"Ulquiorra Cero Oscuras, Lanza, etc. + confirmed to destroy Las Noches"

This is the statement not a feat. feet wise I do agree that he does obliterated Toguro passively.

"Tier being a Vasto Lorde + confirmed to destroy Las Noches

Barragan tanking Soifon's Bankai, Respira, etc. + confirmed to destroy Las Noches

Starrk Cero Metralleta, fighting four Captains, etc. + confirmed to destroy Las Noches"

"Nah a Fraction being around sub-city level is very much so consistent in the story, nice to know that Yusuke's Reigun is near that level"

Again this with Yamamoto feat was cal at 90 kiloton.

Unless you argue magic fire and stealing face off statements.

"Ok show me the exact depth that is given from the canon/creator themselves. Go on, I'll wait."

Again I can show you scan for the deepness of the lake and prove without a doubt that it's nowhere near as deep as an actual ocean the Creator drew a Lake and claimed it was an ocean get over it

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FaradaySloth

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@bossmountain:

Completely unquantifiable with characters in Fist of the North Star that can distort space with their attacks. Country + Kenshiro comfrimed.

Using other series to justify downplay. K.

Yammy Cero engulfing the landscape + confirmed to destroy Las Noches

2,843,454,553.317 + 318,417,708.224 = 3,161,872,261.541 J, or 755.706 Kg of TNT

*Sniffs* Smell that? That’s the smell of disappointment!

Lol yep explosions that engulf a landscape takes building level energy.

Ironic how the fraccion feat s actually better than Yammay final grand cero unless of course you resort to scaling and calulation stacking.

Nope, because engulfing a landscape while being small mountain size would take more energy than building level, to anyone who has ever done any math in their lifetime. But sure, "scaling" and "stacking"

And is hilariously below Yusuke final reigun.

Nope.

The only argument for it being stronger is scaling and statement of course.

Nope. On panel.

This is the statement not a feat.

A feat that's in a statement, sure.

feet wise I do agree that he does obliterated Toguro passively.

>Yammy at Zero Espada is weaker than Yusuke, but Ulquiorra at Fourth Espada kills Toguro passively.

Bossmountain, top tier powerscaler, etc.

Again this with Yamamoto feat was cal at 90 kiloton.

Keep living in denial.

Unless you argue magic fire and stealing face off statements.

"face off statements" K.

Again I can show you scan for the deepness of the lake and prove without a doubt that it's nowhere near as deep as an actual ocean the Creator drew a Lake and claimed it was an ocean get over it

So no number? K. Keep living in headcanon

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EpicHotFlame

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@epichotflame: From what i remember, (weaker than 100%) Toguro got busted through a mountain by restrained Yusuke, and than was tanking attacks from unrestrained Yusuke

I don't do levels anymore, but to put it in your perspective, mountain+, or something like that

If he is multi mountain lvl, he gets stomped by Grinmjow

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EpicHotFlame

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@morningstar999: no LN isn't large island anything, how did u get it up there to that size?

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EpicHotFlame

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@epichotflame said:

@faradaysloth: lol so what lvl is he?

I'd say town-city at best.

@firefly894 said:

@epichotflame: From what i remember, (weaker than 100%) Toguro got busted through a mountain by restrained Yusuke, and than was tanking attacks from unrestrained Yusuke

I don't do levels anymore, but to put it in your perspective, mountain+, or something like that

Don't fall for this misleading post, they're referring to this feat:

Here Toguro gets rammed through a fairly building to large building size arena, gets thrown through a forest, and stops somewhere in that forest. He has never been busted through a mountain, that is actually a lie lol, not open to interpretation.

IIRC this was him at 80% as well.

That looks weak as shit, it's not even city lvl worthy

No AP?

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FaradaySloth

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@epichotflame: I'm counting AP imo, only makes sense to do so, and given everything we've seen up to that point it should be fair.

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Bossmountain

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@morningstar999:

@faradaysloth: Dunno why many deny the GRC to be large island busting at least. There is literally a statement from Ulquiorra, saying that it can destroy Las Noches, which is large island/small country sized. Cero Oscuras is LN busting...hell, any GRC is Las Noches busting. And people are hypocrites in using AP for YYH, and downplay Bleach AP based attacks(because Bleach is obviously AP based lmao), to say that GRC didn't even destroy a pillar lol. I've heard that Toguro is supposed to be island level, yet I've never seen an island level feat/statement posted. Just scaling and scaling. I don't think YYH is weak, but damn by YYH logic of Yusuke being planet busting, Ichigo is multi planetary lol.

Toguro ain't island level that for sure. His best feat was town level.

you can wank him higher with statements. from a pure feat stand point he's higher than most arrcancarrs.

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Bossmountain

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@bossmountain:

Completely unquantifiable with characters in Fist of the North Star that can distort space with their attacks. Country + Kenshiro comfrimed.

Using other series to justify downplay. K.

Just proving that distorting space says nothing about attack power.

Yammy Cero engulfing the landscape + confirmed to destroy Las Noches

2,843,454,553.317 + 318,417,708.224 = 3,161,872,261.541 J, or 755.706 Kg of TNT

*Sniffs* Smell that? That’s the smell of disappointment!

Lol yep explosions that engulf a landscape takes building level energy.

Yammy’s Final Cero

No Caption Provided

Yammy’s final cero before being off-panel’d kicks up quite a bit of sand, and so it seemed like a good opportunity to find the potential energy.

No Caption Provided

Kenpachi is 2.02 m tall. He’s 215 pixels here compared to 442 for Yammy’s head height.

442 / 215 = 2.056 * 2.02 = 4.153 m, height of Yammy’s head

No Caption Provided

Yammy’s head is 28 pixels compared to 183 for height of first cone, 137 for diameter of first cone, 362 for height of second cone, and 207 for diameter of second cone.

183 / 28 = 6.537 * 4.153 = 27.148 m, height of cone 1

137 / 28 = 4.893 * 4.153 = 20.321 m, diameter of cone 1

362 / 28 = 12.929 * 4.153 = 53.694 m, height of cone 2

207 / 28 = 7.393 * 4.153 = 30.703 m, diameter of cone 2

Cone 1 volume = 2,935.211 m^3

Cone 2 volume = 13,252.088 m^3

Sand has a density of 1,631 Kg/m^3.

2,935.211 * 1,631 = 4,787,329.141 Kg, weight of cone 1

13,252.088 * 1,631 = 21,614,155.528 Kg, weight of cone 2

Now I must find center of gravity. Thankfully, there is a handy calculator for that.

Cone 1 center of gravity = 6.787 m

Cone 2 center of gravity = 13.424 m

mgh

Where m is mass of the sand, g is gravity (9.8), and h is the center of gravity in this case.

4,787,329.141 * 9.8 * 6.787 = 318,417,708.224 J

21,614,155.528 * 9.8 * 13.424 = 2,843,454,553.317 J

2,843,454,553.317 + 318,417,708.224 = 3,161,872,261.541 J, or 755.706 Kg of TNT

building level.

Ironic how the fraccion feat s actually better than Yammay final grand cero unless of course you resort to scaling and calulation stacking.

Nope, because engulfing a landscape while being small mountain size would take more energy than building level, to anyone who has ever done any math in their lifetime. But sure, "scaling" and "stacking"

And is hilariously below Yusuke final reigun.

Nope.

The only argument for it being stronger is scaling and statement of course.

Nope. On panel.

This is the statement not a feat.

A feat that's in a statement, sure.

A feat is action that happen in the story and a statement is something we're told about a character. High level espanda destroying los noche is a statement not a feat.

feet wise I do agree that he does obliterated Toguro passively.

>Yammy at Zero Espada is weaker than Yusuke, but Ulquiorra at Fourth Espada kills Toguro passively.

Bossmountain, top tier powerscaler, etc.

Never said any of that. All i said calculated feat it would be much weaker. my pint is no arrcarr aside from Espada 4 has destruction feat that can be calculated higher than Yusuke without resorting to power scaling and statement.

there was one fraccion that came close. so you either have to scale all espada to that to dismissed it as an outlier due to how high it was cuz very few characters that arc feats to top it.

Again this with Yamamoto feat was cal at 90 kiloton.

Keep living in denial.

Unless you argue magic fire and stealing face off statements.

"face off statements" K.

Again I can show you scan for the deepness of the lake and prove without a doubt that it's nowhere near as deep as an actual ocean the Creator drew a Lake and claimed it was an ocean get over it

So no number? K. Keep living in headcanon

No Caption Provided

imagine blindly believing in a statement so hard that no amount of visual evidence could convince you otherwise.

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Zaelleaz

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@morningstar999: I don't even know any YYH people saying Bleach is bad in AP. Idk.. i'll stick to my own scaling via the feats and absolutes via lowballing but bleach is generally downplayed on here. It's AP "does" scale like anything else. The volume of what's destroyed to what manner it's destroyed in vs the volume of the attack doing the destroying and such... that always matters. Bleach is obviously >Naruto and one-piece for instance. It just doesn't beat EOS YYH in AP and such. But so what? The downplay on YYH is so... "insert hillbuster bleach meme here" level. yawn. But don't take any of this as me saying Toguro wins this or anything.. this is all in general.

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Morningstar999

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@zaelleaz said:

@morningstar999: I don't even know any YYH people saying Bleach is bad in AP. Idk.. i'll stick to my own scaling via the feats and absolutes via lowballing but bleach is generally downplayed on here. It's AP "does" scale like anything else. The volume of what's destroyed to what manner it's destroyed in vs the volume of the attack doing the destroying and such... that always matters. Bleach is obviously >Naruto and one-piece for instance. It just doesn't beat EOS YYH in AP and such. But so what? The downplay on YYH is so... "insert hillbuster bleach meme here" level. yawn. But don't take any of this as me saying Toguro wins this or anything.. this is all in general.

Not you, I mainly speak of other cases. Ulquiorra is literally called city level by many, when he is at least island busting with just Cero Oscuras. Going by visuals, to just say that Las Noches is city sized lol. Even though there is no reason to dismiss Nelliel's statement.

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Bossmountain

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@morningstar999: nah Ulquiorra has legit Large town to country level feats.

Dangai Ichigo and Aizen have legit island busting feats too

Plus the all got massive speed advantage.

I don't anyone in their right mind think Toguro clears or even makes it half way. not matter how you wank him.

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FaradaySloth

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@bossmountain:

Just proving that distorting space says nothing about attack power.

To the point of it being an indicator of the destruction of Las Noches? Yes. Yes it does.

Yammy’s final cero before being off-panel’d kicks up quite a bit of sand, and so it seemed like a good opportunity to find the potential energy.

Kenpachi is 2.02 m tall. He’s 215 pixels here compared to 442 for Yammy’s head height.

442 / 215 = 2.056 * 2.02 = 4.153 m, height of Yammy’s head

Yammy’s head is 28 pixels compared to 183 for height of first cone, 137 for diameter of first cone, 362 for height of second cone, and 207 for diameter of second cone.

183 / 28 = 6.537 * 4.153 = 27.148 m, height of cone 1

137 / 28 = 4.893 * 4.153 = 20.321 m, diameter of cone 1

362 / 28 = 12.929 * 4.153 = 53.694 m, height of cone 2

207 / 28 = 7.393 * 4.153 = 30.703 m, diameter of cone 2

Cone 1 volume = 2,935.211 m^3

Cone 2 volume = 13,252.088 m^3

Sand has a density of 1,631 Kg/m^3.

2,935.211 * 1,631 = 4,787,329.141 Kg, weight of cone 1

13,252.088 * 1,631 = 21,614,155.528 Kg, weight of cone 2

Now I must find center of gravity. Thankfully, there is a handy calculator for that.

Cone 1 center of gravity = 6.787 m

Cone 2 center of gravity = 13.424 m

mgh

Where m is mass of the sand, g is gravity (9.8), and h is the center of gravity in this case.

4,787,329.141 * 9.8 * 6.787 = 318,417,708.224 J

21,614,155.528 * 9.8 * 13.424 = 2,843,454,553.317 J

2,843,454,553.317 + 318,417,708.224 = 3,161,872,261.541 J, or 755.706 Kg of TNT

building level.

Ohhhhh yeaaa uhhh sorry dis jus uh calc stacking soooo automatically irrelevant yeahhhh noooo uhhh sorry.

I like how easy dismissal can be is, especially when it's warranted.

A feat is action that happen in the story and a statement is something we're told about a character. High level espanda destroying los noche is a statement not a feat

Awwwwwww, look at him, thinking he has the authority to determine what's a feat.

Never said any of that.

Didn't have to.

All i said calculated feat it would be much weaker.

Already proven to be wrong.

my pint is no arrcarr aside from Espada 4 has destruction feat that can be calculated higher than Yusuke without resorting to power scaling and statement.

Also proven to be wrong. This way of thinking determines that Cell and Buu Saga characters are no where close to planetary.

there was one fraccion that came close. so you either have to scale all espada to that to dismissed it as an outlier due to how high it was cuz very few characters that arc feats to top it.

I don't have to considering the Espada have feats that are calculated to be tiers above that, so it's consistent.

imagine blindly believing in a statement so hard that no amount of visual evidence could convince you otherwise.

What visual evidence? All I see is Ichigo vaporizing a sea. Thanks for the scan tho.

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Bossmountain

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#50  Edited By Bossmountain

@faradaysloth:

@faradaysloth: "Ohhhhh yeaaa uhhh sorry dis jus uh calc stacking soooo automatically irrelevant yeahhhh noooo uhhh sorry.

I like how easy dismissal can be is, especially when it's warranted."

Using height as a reference is not calculation stacking LMAO!! but bringing in speed from a completely unrelated feat is.

"To the point of it being an indicator of the destruction of Las Noches? Yes. Yes it does"

Except the warping of time and space didn't actually destroy anything.

"What visual evidence? All I see is Ichigo vaporizing a sea. Thanks for the scan tho."

All I sEe iS IcHiGo vApoRizIng a Sea. ThE CliFf are and WaTeR lEvel aRe cOmepLetly unmeasurable?!?!

Seriously does like 300 let alone 700 meters to you?!

we can't just used the length of the cliffs characters and the surrounding area to measure the depth of this lake. because that would be cheating. Ichigo and rengji could go totally be 7 meters tall (22'11 feet) for all we know...

"Awwwwwww, look at him, thinking he has the authority to determine what's a feat"

Oh that's cute little brainlet that doesn't know the difference between a feat and a statement. How precious.

"Also proven to be wrong. This way of thinking determines that Cell and Buu Saga characters are no where close to planetary."

Piccolo destroys the moon with calc a small planet level freezer destroying Vegeta (the planet) with cal that dwarf star level. freezer destroying namek was surprisingly calculated at solar system level in the anime.

I do agree that feat alone is not the best way to go! Scaling is necessary for consistency sake. otherwise you get nonsense like frieza and roshi being stronger than Cell.

"I don't have to considering the Espada have feats that are calculated to be tiers above that, so it's consistent."

Correction ONE Espanda have feats that are calculated to be tiers above that.

my point is that all series rely on scaling to degree.

YYH is no different than bleach in that regards