Tobirama Senju vs Itachi Uchiha

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ghost_rider1

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#1  Edited By ghost_rider1

Neither characters are edo tensei

Both are bloodlusted

Fight take place in a forest

Who wins?

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InFamous_Wolf

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Itachi

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NighThunder

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Itachi.

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Ratava

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#5  Edited By Ratava
@ghost_rider1 said:

Who wins?

hmm - they´re both powerful shinobi

Tobirama was able to defeat Izuna who was on a par with Madara at that time so he should be really a great fighter but overall we haven´t seen much from him. Itachis Katon shouldn´t be a problem for Tobirama who was praised as the greatest Suiton-User and even Amaterasu he could evade with FTG. On the other hand Itachis Susanoo with Totsuka no Tsurugi and Yata no Kagami is essentially a perfect defense but activating and maintaining it puts a great strain on the user and it wouldn´t be easy for Itacho to hit Tobirama with the sword.

We don´t know how good Tobriamas defense is against Genjutsu but considering he fought countless battles against the Uchihas he should have at least some defense capabilities against it but even among the Uchihas Itachi was one of the most powerful Dojotsu-User.

I can´t really decide

If Itachi is somehow able to end this quick i would give the win to him but as longer the fight continues Tobirama should gain the upper hand thanks to his superior stamina due to his Senju lineage. Based only on seen feats i say Itachi wins.

edit: i changed my mind - my vote goes to Tobirama :)

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PrinceAragorn1

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#6  Edited By PrinceAragorn1

These characters do have a very Good skillset for a great match:

Itachi: Fire Element attacks; Tobirama: Water Element Defense/Attack.

Itachi: Sharingan/Genjutsu; Tobirama: Bringer of Darkness Technique.

Itachi: Amaterasu, Tobirama: Flying Thunder God.

Tobirama: Intersecting Explosions. Itachi: Susanoo, Yata mirror.

Tobirama: Edo Tensei. Itachi: Totsuka Blade.

These two should have the most awesome summons around :D

Boy, this could be one of the best fights in Naruto..

But in the end, edge should go to tobirama, due to experience and perhaps better stamina.. Unless itachi can land a hit on him by totsuka, which he's fairly capable of doing.

And,

Fire: Mythical Firebird and Grand Fireball:

Don't seem as awesome as:

and

Tobi wins! :D

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No_Trolling

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Itachi can't beat tobirama, he's near Madara level.

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PrinceAragorn1

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Itachi can't beat tobirama, he's near Madara level.

...If he's near madara level, why can't he beat tobirama?

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@princearagorn1: unless i remember it right, the intersecting explosions is purposely designed for people who have been resurrected. are you implying that tobirama use edo tensei ? if so, then that becomes a liability because edo tensei is a prep up ability and OP never stated that there is prep in the battle.

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PrinceAragorn1

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@kyrees: I don't remember reading it, though.

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Jayimfamous

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#14  Edited By Jayimfamous

Tobirama is stronger than madara until kabuto gives him the upgrades. Tobirama beat izuna which was on par with madara they were equals. Tobirama jutsu are perfect for countering mangekyo eye and susanoo. Also he is the creator of the edo tensei technique and the flying thunder god. The only reason tobirama died was because he had to become a decoy for hiruzen, the 2 elders, and Danzo. Which were trained under his guidance and were the strongest of there generation when he died which gave birth to the legendary sannin.... So I would say that tobirama prowess actually was more Essential to the leaf village than hashirama. He is the most strongest water user in the history of ninja and itachi wouldn't stand a chance. Perfect example is seeing Kisame and you will understand tobirama jutsu it's just more powerful and stronger lol. Itachi is good in his own to but he's not messing with the 2nd prowess. Danzo even said it his self that no one can match his prowess In his era when he was alive. He trained the 3rd hokage and he went on to be the god of shinobi him self. Tobirama FTW here

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DarkRaiden

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Itachi stomps. Itachi beats everyone in naruto who hasn't shown genjutsu defense and that's a fact. All it takes is a finger point, and Tobirama's done.

Not to mention Itachi's one of the fastest in the entire series, and has great taijutsu, exploding clones, Amaterasu, Tsukyomi, Susanoo, and SoT and Yata Mirror. Tobirama has counters to approximately none of these. But it's unnecessary. All Itachi has to do is point.

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Hegemon

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Tobirama is fast. However, I dont think he has a technique to combat kotoamatsukami.

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#17  Edited By Jayimfamous

@darkraiden: your wrong te 2 fastest people on naruto is 4th hokage and 2nd hokage... They use the flying thunder god which is instant teleportation. The technique flying thunder god which is used by the 4th hokage was created by tobirama. That is what he used to kill izuna. Itachi isn't even faster than naruto or the raikage. Izuna had mangekyo eye and still got killed by tobirama because his speed couldn't be traced by him when he used the technique. Even with Tobi being the sage of the 6 paths couldn't trace the movement of him and the 4th hokage. There space time jutsu is next to none. Saskue is stronger than itachi now and he feared tobirama when he put just one finger up and thy all trembled in fear but hashirama told him to chill out. Itachi doesn't beat the First second hokage saskue and madara. Itachi even with Kisame couldn't even touch jiraiya they ran because even he said him self that they couldn't contest with his prowess so itachi doesn't beat everyone in naruto. Itachi with susanoo, armatesatu, exploding clones, sot and mirror wouldn't be enough for tobirama. Tobirama genjutsu is on par with the best and his edo tensei would where itachi out. Itachi and Kisame went into a even fight genjutsu doesn't work on him as the same for tobirama and you also got to remeber they know everything that the uchiha has installed for the fact they been were warring for a long time. Tobirama wins here man.

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DarkRaiden

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@darkraiden: your wrong te 2 fastest people on naruto is 4th hokage and 2nd hokage... They use the flying thunder god which is instant teleportation. The technique flying thunder god which is used by the 4th hokage was created by tobirama. That is what he used to kill izuna. Itachi isn't even faster than naruto or the raikage. Izuna had mangekyo eye and still got killed by tobirama because his speed couldn't be traced by him when he used the technique. Even with Tobi being the sage of the 6 paths couldn't trace the movement of him and the 4th hokage. There space time jutsu is next to none. Saskue is stronger than itachi now and he feared tobirama when he put just one finger up and thy all trembled in fear but hashirama told him to chill out. Itachi doesn't beat the First second hokage saskue and madara. Itachi even with Kisame couldn't even touch jiraiya they ran because even he said him self that they couldn't contest with his prowess so itachi doesn't beat everyone in naruto. Itachi with susanoo, armatesatu, exploding clones, sot and mirror wouldn't be enough for tobirama. Tobirama genjutsu is on par with the best and his edo tensei would where itachi out. Itachi and Kisame went into a even fight genjutsu doesn't work on him as the same for tobirama and you also got to remeber they know everything that the uchiha has installed for the fact they been were warring for a long time. Tobirama wins here man.

Ok let's address the bolded.

1. No. They're not faster than A, Naruto, Bee, or Itachi naturally. Only teleporting. Which only gets you so far when you don't have the reflexes. Hell Minato was pretty much dead by Bee's sword already.

2. Sasuke is not stronger than itachi by a long shot

3. 1st has no genjutsu defense, either does the 2nd, he already beat Sasuke while sick, dying, and trying to lose, and Madara has.....wait for it....no genjutsu defense.

4. That's not even true. Itachi can solo Jiraiya. Itachi was a double agent and the whole statement was false. They also said that Naruto at the time was extremely powerful....and he wasn't.

5. Itachi does in fact beat everyone in Naruto

6. Prove it. Tobirama has literally never used genjutsu and has never shown genjutsu defense. Stop making stuff up

7. Edo tensei just get genjuts'd and SoT'd.

8. Kisame and Itachi never fought, not sure what you're talking about.

In total, the f*ck are you talking about? You know nothing of Naruto, stop. Just stop. Making up random things out of nowhere. By god. That was just a terrible jumbled paragraph I just read.

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106me

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#19  Edited By 106me

@darkraiden: Lol, dude easy easy, he might just be a little kid, lol. I agree with you, but at least give him a little bit of a break.

Anyway, I'm going with Itachi in this fight. One, because most of the strongest of his ninjutsu's are near unbeatable. Two, because Itachi has a high level of intellect that has never been beaten. Three, because of the hype of the edo hokages and edo madara are somewhat false. Originally, Tobirama and Harishima were not supposed to be the strongest of shinobi. The fourth was (or a Hiruzen Sarutobi in his prime, depending on interpretation). In the fight with Orochimaru vs Shodaime Hokage (AKA Hiruzen Sarutobi, AKA the Third Hokage), Orochimaru had summoned edo Tobirama and edo Hashirama. As he was about to summon the fourth hokage, Hiruzen said " No! I cannot let Orochimaru summon him!" (I'm paraphrasing, but bear with me because I'm doing this all by memory, all 650 chapters). Now, that does not mean that Tobirama is not powerful, but Kishimoto had other plans to make more powerful characters at the time.

Now as we take a look at the new (crappy) chapters, there has been a lot of hype on the edo hokages and (especially) edo madara. Yes, edo madara is powerful, in fact, disregarding the sage of six paths, ten tails, and the tailed beasts, he's probably the in the top 3 of the most powerful ninjas. But that's edo madara, who has unlimited chakra reserves and cannot die. Imagine you fighting a ghost that you can't hit, but it can damage you. And your stamina is running out, but the ghost doesn't tire. That's the same idea with edo characters. Now, unlike you and the ghost, there are things you can do to disable the edo character, like trapping them in permanent genjutsus, sealing them, etc. But it makes it so much harder to fight someone who doesn't tire and weaken like a normal character does. So, even though susanoo has consequences to summoning it (by draining the user's life force, especially if over used), to an edo character (madara), they can just summon uncanny amounts of clones and have them all use susanoo. That's what edo can do to a character, especially one who is already strong. And yet Madara even got a power boost from Hashirama was using his cells. So, is MADARA one of the most powerful characters? Yes, but he is not in league with the strongest of the current shinobi, and barely even makes top ten. Now, an edo madara is a different story. Now, as bullish PIS, edo madara with hashirama cells is the second or third strongest shinobi, but that's a rare cirumstance and something that should not be used in a vs. forum, due to edo characters having to be prepped and turned into an edo by someone else, so Madara cannot edo himself without help. So if you ask me, "Hey, who would win in a fight between Madara and Itachi?" I would say that we don't really know enough about both Itachi and Madara to make a conclusion, but feat wise, I may be slightly more inclined to say Itachi. But if this were edo madara with the hashirama cells, no shinobi that is non-edo would stand a chance against madara.

So, all in all, I say that there is a difference between edo hokages and normal hokages, and to the conclusion of this fight between Itachi and Tobirama, feat wise, I'd have to give Itachi the edge (based on pure feats, since we don't know the true extent of Itachi's power, and since Tobirama hasn't been featured in many chapters in Naruto).

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This is a great fight.

I can't say who wins really (I love Itachi too much). But you guys have to stop comparing Tobirama to Madara. Yeah he was on par with Izuna, but they were children. Even while they were young Madara was still the superior (as he went on to lead the clan). Years later, after Izuna passes, when Madara grows strength with immense experience and an eternal mangekyou (from Izuna--meaning he gains his mangekyou prowess also) you would really use young Izuna as a reference to current Madara (not even considering Hashirama's cells)?

You really can't compare the two. This is a pretty great matchup and it should come as no surprise whoever would actually come out on top.

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@106me: Dude you gotta chill lol. You are really disrespecting some of the greatest shinobi in the manga. You're being a hipster right now.

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Tobirama is rather featless honestly. But given how he created basically every technique used in the series (or the cool ones, at least), I wouldn't be surprised if he had some genjutsu counter up his sleeve.

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#23  Edited By Jayimfamous

@darkraiden: first off I'm not no kid and second of all your no where near the knowledge I know with naruto this goes to show the ignorance and the lack of knowledge that you know about tobirama and naruto. First off Kisame and itachi did fight and it went to a stale mate there's even a video on YouTube look it up itachi vs Kisame. Second of all the raikage his self says there was only 1 that was faster than him and he said that was the 4th hokage what are you talking about go look up facts. Kisame couldn't be put I'm the genjutsu. Izuna and madara was on par with each other what are y'all saying go and read there bios and look at these mangas and then y'all come to me with facts. Saskue is stronger than itachi orochimari says it by himself that saskue is ok pace to surpass madara as tobirama says naruto is soon to surpass hashirama. I speak facts and tobirama did use genjutsu what are you talking about. Madara only became as strong as he is now because he has hashirama cells now. Tobirama doesn't use hand seals or doesn't have to mark anyone to use this ability. The only difference between him and monatomic is that minato goes more in depth with it because he trained his abilities around that technique and tobirama used other Justus more than flying thunder god. Your sitting here talking about itachi is one the fastest then you say now naruto bee are faster make your mind up. Bee isn't faster than no dam 2nd and 4th hokage what are you smoking and Tobi and hashirama used the genjutsu called bringer of darkness most of the time so who didn't use genjutsu me smart everything I'm saying look up stop going off cartoon stuff read it. I also hate to inform you but the strongest genjutsu user in naruto was Toka from the senju clan hint hint he's not the strongest genjutsu user and are amww forgetting about shusui smh get your facts straight then Holla at me. Saskue posses the eternal mangekyo eye and itachi didn't . You are a itachi fan boy and not looking at facts. The senju of over a thousand techniques were able to fight the uchiha because they were fighting the uchiha for yrs and of course knew how to beat them. There chakra resevoir and control of that chakra resevoir was so In depth that putting them In it would be pointless they just would use chakra release a vs it was done especially to a tobirama and hashirama. What was stated out of itachi mouth when Kisame and him were fighting jiraiya was that he is in another class from him and that is the reason why they both ran because if he didn't use his armatesatu to leave out of the road belly they would've died. Go look up everything and then come back to me. Tobirama will beat itachi and he has shown the feats just go look at his showing in manga and you will see what I'm talking about. Exactly like you said Odin yrs later they madara gained became stronger as for tobirama and hashirama.

I'm not saying that Tobi can beat madara now because he has a super upgrade now with hashirama cells in him that puts him on a whole level from anyone now besides hashirama and a person like naruto but what is killing me is that everyone thinks tobirama is weak and that itachi is gods gift when he's not. Itachi is powerful but not stronger than a person like tobirama we gotta be kidding ourselves here and we haven't brought the flying god thunder sword when it was in his possession at the time. I speak of tobirama because I know his abilities and what he can do. I love itachi and he's one of my favorites but I argue you fairly when I speak of such things. I dot research and I read mangas all day so I know what I'm talking about. Also just like itachi the 2nd hokage is one of the most intellectual people and he's also second to none. Orochimari summoned them because hiruzen was extremely strong in his youth and as you said he was also considered the god of shinobis able to copy and any technique that is I'm the leaf village as orochimari says. But itachi doesn't hold a candle to defending against 1st,2nd 3rd and jiraiya and madara. Current madara different story. People think that madara was a unstoppable but he wasn't.

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DarkRaiden

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@darkraiden: first off I'm not no kid and second of all your no where near the knowledge I know with naruto this goes to show the ignorance and the lack of knowledge that you know about tobirama and naruto. First off Kisame and itachi did fight and it went to a stale mate there's even a video on YouTube look it up itachi vs Kisame. Second of all the raikage his self says there was only 1 that was faster than him and he said that was the 4th hokage what are you talking about go look up facts. Kisame couldn't be put I'm the genjutsu. Izuna and madara was on par with each other what are y'all saying go and read there bios and look at these mangas and then y'all come to me with facts.Saskue is stronger than itachi orochimari says it by himself that saskue is ok pace to surpass madara as tobirama says naruto is soon to surpass hashirama. I speak facts and tobirama did use genjutsu what are you talking about. Madara only became as strong as he is now because he has hashirama cells now. Tobirama doesn't use hand seals or doesn't have to mark anyone to use this ability. The only difference between him and monatomic is that minato goes more in depth with it because he trained his abilities around that technique and tobirama used other Justus more than flying thunder god. Your sitting here talking about itachi is one the fastest then you say now naruto bee are faster make your mind up. Bee isn't faster than no dam 2nd and 4th hokage what are you smoking and Tobi and hashirama used the genjutsu called bringer of darkness most of the time so who didn't use genjutsu me smart everything I'm saying look up stop going off cartoon stuff read it. I also hate to inform you but the strongest genjutsu user in naruto was Toka from the senju clan hint hint he's not the strongest genjutsu user and are amww forgetting about shusui smh get your facts straight then Holla at me. Saskue posses the eternal mangekyo eye and itachi didn't . You are a itachi fan boy and not looking at facts. The senju of over a thousand techniques were able to fight the uchiha because they were fighting the uchiha for yrs and of course knew how to beat them. There chakra resevoir and control of that chakra resevoir was so In depth that putting them In it would be pointless they just would use chakra release a vs it was done especially to a tobirama and hashirama. What was stated out of itachi mouth when Kisame and him were fighting jiraiya was that he is in another class from him and that is the reason why they both ran because if he didn't use his armatesatu to leave out of the road belly they would've died. Go look up everything and then come back to me.Tobirama will beat itachi and he has shown the feats just go look at his showing in manga and you will see what I'm talking about. Exactly like you said Odin yrs later they madara gained became stronger as for tobirama and hashirama.

I'm not saying that Tobi can beat madara now because he has a super upgrade now with hashirama cells in him that puts him on a whole level from anyone now besides hashirama and a person like naruto but what is killing me is that everyone thinks tobirama is weak and that itachi is gods gift when he's not. Itachi is powerful but not stronger than a person like tobirama we gotta be kidding ourselves here and we haven't brought the flying god thunder sword when it was in his possession at the time. I speak of tobirama because I know his abilities and what he can do. I love itachi and he's one of my favorites but I argue you fairly when I speak of such things. I dot research and I read mangas all day so I know what I'm talking about. Also just like itachi the 2nd hokage is one of the most intellectual people and he's also second to none. Orochimari summoned them because hiruzen was extremely strong in his youth and as you said he was also considered the god of shinobis able to copy and any technique that is I'm the leaf village as orochimari says. But itachi doesn't hold a candle to defending against 1st,2nd 3rd and jiraiya and madara. Current madara different story. People think that madara was a unstoppable but he wasn't.

Ok

1. Separate your sentences more. This is a wall of text and sounds terrible

2. Kisame and Itachi never fought in the manga. Ever. Video/Anime/Video Game doesn't count. At all. If they did, point out the chapters and pages

3. Izuna and Madara were never stated on par

4. Orochimaru has never said Sasuke was stronger than Itachi. He said his eyes were better, then in Shippuden he said that both of them combined would still lose to Itachi. Also Sasuke proved to be much weaker when he was a handicap for Itachi in the Kabuto fight. Itachi literally had to sacrifice himself a few times to protect him

5. Itachi is one of the fastest. So are Naruto and Bee. they are not mutually exclusive. You can't be that....anyways Bee already outreacted Minato. Go look it up, when Minato used Hirashin, Bee had a sword to his stomach, ready to strike

6. No, Hashirama used it, and only used it once. Tobirama only used it in the anime....which is not canon. And neither have GENJUTSU DEFENSE. Orochimaru also uses genjutsu, has a 5/5, and Itachi destroyed him with his genjutsu. So until proof is given, Itachi destroys the Senju bros as well

7. Toka from the Senju clan has done nothing. Prove he's better at genjutsu. And Shisui only has 2 genjutsu he can use in a 10 year period. Itachi is far superior. Lol you have no facts, just gibberish and stupidity. Or maybe ignorance is the word.

8. The statement from Itachi was very vague, and again ITACHI WAS A DOUBLE AGENT. He'd have no reason to kill Jiraiya at that moment. Itachi could have easily aimed Amaterasu at Jiraiya instead, and then he dies. Also RIGHT AFTER THAT, Kisame asks why they left as Itachi could have easily won. So if we're using statements, Itachi can easily beat Jiraiya. And if you look at the wording of their statement, it's actually talking about Naruto beating them, funny enough.

9. Prove it. Provide one moment where Tobirama used genjutsu. I'll wait. You can't because he never did. Ever.

10. So again, Tobirama has no feats.

And who knows, maybe he can beat Madara, but Madara can't touch Itachi either. So again, until you provide genjutsu defense, Tobirama gets stomped into the ground.

Go read the manga again, several times, reformulate your sentences, study some english, and get back at me.Cause you're wrong. Itachi stomps.

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DarkRaiden

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@106me said:

@darkraiden: Lol, dude easy easy, he might just be a little kid, lol. I agree with you, but at least give him a little bit of a break.

Anyway, I'm going with Itachi in this fight. One, because most of the strongest of his ninjutsu's are near unbeatable. Two, because Itachi has a high level of intellect that has never been beaten. Three, because of the hype of the edo hokages and edo madara are somewhat false. Originally, Tobirama and Harishima were not supposed to be the strongest of shinobi. The fourth was (or a Hiruzen Sarutobi in his prime, depending on interpretation). In the fight with Orochimaru vs Shodaime Hokage (AKA Hiruzen Sarutobi, AKA the Third Hokage), Orochimaru had summoned edo Tobirama and edo Hashirama. As he was about to summon the fourth hokage, Hiruzen said " No! I cannot let Orochimaru summon him!" (I'm paraphrasing, but bear with me because I'm doing this all by memory, all 650 chapters). Now, that does not mean that Tobirama is not powerful, but Kishimoto had other plans to make more powerful characters at the time.

Now as we take a look at the new (crappy) chapters, there has been a lot of hype on the edo hokages and (especially) edo madara. Yes, edo madara is powerful, in fact, disregarding the sage of six paths, ten tails, and the tailed beasts, he's probably the in the top 3 of the most powerful ninjas. But that's edo madara, who has unlimited chakra reserves and cannot die. Imagine you fighting a ghost that you can't hit, but it can damage you. And your stamina is running out, but the ghost doesn't tire. That's the same idea with edo characters. Now, unlike you and the ghost, there are things you can do to disable the edo character, like trapping them in permanent genjutsus, sealing them, etc. But it makes it so much harder to fight someone who doesn't tire and weaken like a normal character does. So, even though susanoo has consequences to summoning it (by draining the user's life force, especially if over used), to an edo character (madara), they can just summon uncanny amounts of clones and have them all use susanoo. That's what edo can do to a character, especially one who is already strong. And yet Madara even got a power boost from Hashirama was using his cells. So, is MADARA one of the most powerful characters? Yes, but he is not in league with the strongest of the current shinobi, and barely even makes top ten. Now, an edo madara is a different story. Now, as bullish PIS, edo madara with hashirama cells is the second or third strongest shinobi, but that's a rare cirumstance and something that should not be used in a vs. forum, due to edo characters having to be prepped and turned into an edo by someone else, so Madara cannot edo himself without help. So if you ask me, "Hey, who would win in a fight between Madara and Itachi?" I would say that we don't really know enough about both Itachi and Madara to make a conclusion, but feat wise, I may be slightly more inclined to say Itachi. But if this were edo madara with the hashirama cells, no shinobi that is non-edo would stand a chance against madara.

So, all in all, I say that there is a difference between edo hokages and normal hokages, and to the conclusion of this fight between Itachi and Tobirama, feat wise, I'd have to give Itachi the edge (based on pure feats, since we don't know the true extent of Itachi's power, and since Tobirama hasn't been featured in many chapters in Naruto).

Oh yeah definitely should have read this first....yeah probably should've laid off of him. But it just warped my mind as things that didn't even happen were brought up and used as facts....

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SirNeko

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#26  Edited By SirNeko

Itachi is hax character, Itachi stomps. There is nothing Tobirama can do that would effect Yata Mirror.

I am fairly certain that Itachi is above Madara. He was the only one who could have defeated Kabuto, he was feared by Obito and it took him a second to figure out Nagato's strongest jutsu's weakness.

He slaughtered his entire clan and gave everything he had to his brother(mentally above anyone else). He also took out Orichimaru down with a second.

I would put him as the second or third strongest character.

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Noone301994

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Itachi stomps. Itachi beats everyone in naruto who hasn't shown genjutsu defense and that's a fact. All it takes is a finger point, and Tobirama's done.

Not to mention Itachi's one of the fastest in the entire series, and has great taijutsu, exploding clones, Amaterasu, Tsukyomi, Susanoo, and SoT and Yata Mirror. Tobirama has counters to approximately none of these. But it's unnecessary. All Itachi has to do is point.

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Jayimfamous

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#28  Edited By Jayimfamous

@darkraiden: I have to ask this question... So you think itachi can beat minato?

I try to sit here and understand that a man that is a space time jutsu, water jutsu, shadow clone jutsu and edo tensei user would just lose....

There both are geniuses in there own right and they both died in similar fashions protecting the youth of the village...

First off he has to be hit with the totsuka pierced and a man with space time jutsu flying thunder god isn't just going to get hit... He has fought against uchiha his whole life and you will think that he has no defense against it that sound ignorant...

There is a reason why the senju were beast when it came to the battle field and as much as you don't want to admit it but the uchiha are 2nd to the senju.

Your also smoking something if you think that itachi is stronger than madara. Now to the big point of things you are saying that itachi was stronger than yonko 4 ryu uchiha, Seireitou Hyuga ,echo uchiha and hirako kurosaki your bugging.

Ryu uchiha which is madara grandson is said to be more powerful than madara himself... The most powerful uchiha is kamui uchiha which madara trembled in fear when he came in contact with him...so go learn your shit buddy that's why I know your a itachi fanboy.

First off Itachi never possessed rinnegan. So what your talking about is blasphemy saying that itachi is stronger than madara when there's other uchiha that surpass him.

Shoyo uchiha was a beast and itachi couldn't even beat or touch him even if he wanted to try... Lol hell sen uchiha is on par with illusions itachi and personally I think he's better.

But besides the point now the senju been fighting the uchiha for yrs and izuna did possess susanoo... Now explain to me why tobirama the man that killed izuna isn't able to get passed his defenses when izuna was a prime victim of it.

Space time jutsu boast the fastest which is used by tobirama the creator of the jutsu and the fastest of all 4th hokage.

Itachi isn't faster than the raikage, bee, tobirama, obito, naruto or minato.

Once tobirama touches itachi it's over.

It all boils down to who gets the first hit and still then it's up in the air. Also learn how the totsuka sword works.

The person has to be stab with it not touched or slashed but stabbed. It has to pierce the individual so that's equivalent to death from any sword pretty much.

Also go look at manga. 648 it's stated that saskue would surpass madara one as for naruto would surpass hashirama senju one day. This came out the mouths of tobirama And orochimaru.

There is no defense against the flying thunder god technique and once your marked it's over. The ability to teleport at any destination at any moment is a game changer any day.

Even if itachi is in susanoo it wouldn't stop tobirama from teleporting with in the defense of Tara mirror and totsuka sword.

Bringer of darkness-

This technique exerts an hallucinatory effect upon the eyesight, effectively blinding the opponent. No matter how skilled an opponent may be, they are forced to wait helpless in this world of darkness, as this technique allows the user to attack unseen. Although it negates sight, it does not stop the other senses. That's the defense that you wanted to know about facts in your face.

So now what was that about everything I gave you proof at its highest order.

Bringer of darkness sounds like to me that it was made specifically for people having eye techniques hint hint hint...

Now I can admit when I'm wrong I thought I seen a episode of itachi and Kisame fighting it was the game I played that's my fault about that.

But now you go back and read everything i just said then you Holla at me.

What cracks me up is he was said to be unmatched in prowess in his era of reign mind your saying itachi is stronger but yet other are stronger than him that makes no dam sense what your saying. You havnt even named one way that he counters the flying thunder god with shadow clones that possess the same abilities attacking at once...

Izuna was noted to be equal to his elder brother, Madara, in every way. Both of them had exceptionally strong chakra, even for Uchiha members, and trained daily to hone their skills.[10] Izuna mastered his Sharingan at a very young age, alongside Madara. When Izuna awakened the Mangekyō Sharingan, his eyes took the appearance of three bars stretching out of his pupil. When Madara took his eyes, the two Mangekyō combined.

Excuse for the weak bee didn't have to move he only had to react don't contradict speed with reaction time.

That a weak way out saying bee outreached him bee doesn't hold a candle to the raikage at speed in no way shape of form. Also even if minato could've did many things to react to that if he wanted ... He didn't kill bee because he liked him get it right.

Toka is a female and she was renowned for her genjutsu around the world. She was also hashirama 3 in command behind tobirama. Now

Now when I read itachi it says he's one of uchiha a most powerfullerst users. That is what stated so don't get mad at toka get mad at the writers for that one. Especially if she a senju that possessed power like that I have no thought in mind that she was that strong. But we can leave this for another time.

Jiraiya at the time when he fought itachi and Kisame was the strongest coming out of the leaf village behind tsunade and Danzo then kakashi.

He could've been hokage

And watching itachi fight against kabuto I see a lot of openings that would've got him killed in a instant.

We know that kabuto doesn't hold a candle to jiraiya even in full fledge sage mode. Also to be honest it took saskue to help him beat kabuto they needed each other and you can't even deny it.

Now the main part I'll get to about this topic itachi wouldn't even pull out the totsuka sword and yata mirror for the simple fact that it drains so much chakra and if he doesn't hit tobirama with it he's done for this wouldn't even be a discussion that where having.

TOBIRAMA FTW...

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DarkRaiden

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@darkraiden: I have to ask this question... So you think itachi can beat minato?

I try to sit here and understand that a man that is a space time jutsu, water jutsu, shadow clone jutsu and edo tensei user would just lose....

There both are geniuses in there own right and they both died in similar fashions protecting the youth of the village...

First off he has to be hit with the totsuka pierced and a man with space time jutsu flying thunder god isn't just going to get hit... He has fought against uchiha his whole life and you will think that he has no defense against it that sound ignorant...

There is a reason why the senju were beast when it came to the battle field and as much as you don't want to admit it but the uchiha are 2nd to the senju.

Your also smoking something if you think that itachi is stronger than madara. Now to the big point of things you are saying that itachi was stronger than yonko 4 ryu uchiha, Seireitou Hyuga ,echo uchiha and hirako kurosaki your bugging.

Ryu uchiha which is madara grandson is said to be more powerful than madara himself... The most powerful uchiha is kamui uchiha which madara trembled in fear when he came in contact with him...so go learn your shit buddy that's why I know your a itachi fanboy.

First off Itachi never possessed rinnegan. So what your talking about is blasphemy saying that itachi is stronger than madara when there's other uchiha that surpass him.

Shoyo uchiha was a beast and itachi couldn't even beat or touch him even if he wanted to try... Lol hell sen uchiha is on par with illusions itachi and personally I think he's better.

But besides the point now the senju been fighting the uchiha for yrs and izuna did possess susanoo... Now explain to me why tobirama the man that killed izuna isn't able to get passed his defenses when izuna was a prime victim of it.

Space time jutsu boast the fastest which is used by tobirama the creator of the jutsu and the fastest of all 4th hokage.

Itachi isn't faster than the raikage, bee, tobirama, obito, naruto or minato.

Once tobirama touches itachi it's over.

It all boils down to who gets the first hit and still then it's up in the air. Also learn how the totsuka sword works.

The person has to be stab with it not touched or slashed but stabbed. It has to pierce the individual so that's equivalent to death from any sword pretty much.

Also go look at manga. 648 it's stated that saskue would surpass madara one as for naruto would surpass hashirama senju one day. This came out the mouths of tobirama And orochimaru.

There is no defense against the flying thunder god technique and once your marked it's over. The ability to teleport at any destination at any moment is a game changer any day.

Even if itachi is in susanoo it wouldn't stop tobirama from teleporting with in the defense of Tara mirror and totsuka sword.

Bringer of darkness-

This technique exerts an hallucinatory effect upon the eyesight, effectively blinding the opponent. No matter how skilled an opponent may be, they are forced to wait helpless in this world of darkness, as this technique allows the user to attack unseen. Although it negates sight, it does not stop the other senses. That's the defense that you wanted to know about facts in your face.

So now what was that about everything I gave you proof at its highest order.

Bringer of darkness sounds like to me that it was made specifically for people having eye techniques hint hint hint...

Now I can admit when I'm wrong I thought I seen a episode of itachi and Kisame fighting it was the game I played that's my fault about that.

But now you go back and read everything i just said then you Holla at me.

What cracks me up is he was said to be unmatched in prowess in his era of reign mind your saying itachi is stronger but yet other are stronger than him that makes no dam sense what your saying. You havnt even named one way that he counters the flying thunder god with shadow clones that possess the same abilities attacking at once...

Izuna was noted to be equal to his elder brother, Madara, in every way. Both of them had exceptionally strong chakra, even for Uchiha members, and trained daily to hone their skills.[10] Izuna mastered his Sharingan at a very young age, alongside Madara. When Izuna awakened the Mangekyō Sharingan, his eyes took the appearance of three bars stretching out of his pupil. When Madara took his eyes, the two Mangekyō combined.

Excuse for the weak bee didn't have to move he only had to react don't contradict speed with reaction time.

That a weak way out saying bee outreached him bee doesn't hold a candle to the raikage at speed in no way shape of form. Also even if minato could've did many things to react to that if he wanted ... He didn't kill bee because he liked him get it right.

Toka is a female and she was renowned for her genjutsu around the world. She was also hashirama 3 in command behind tobirama. Now

Now when I read itachi it says he's one of uchiha a most powerfullerst users. That is what stated so don't get mad at toka get mad at the writers for that one. Especially if she a senju that possessed power like that I have no thought in mind that she was that strong. But we can leave this for another time.

Jiraiya at the time when he fought itachi and Kisame was the strongest coming out of the leaf village behind tsunade and Danzo then kakashi.

He could've been hokage

And watching itachi fight against kabuto I see a lot of openings that would've got him killed in a instant.

We know that kabuto doesn't hold a candle to jiraiya even in full fledge sage mode. Also to be honest it took saskue to help him beat kabuto they needed each other and you can't even deny it.

Now the main part I'll get to about this topic itachi wouldn't even pull out the totsuka sword and yata mirror for the simple fact that it drains so much chakra and if he doesn't hit tobirama with it he's done for this wouldn't even be a discussion that where having.

TOBIRAMA FTW...

Itachi would stomp Minato into the ground with ease. Maybe take 5 seconds.

Ok, let me say...you sound deranged and delusional.

Non of that Uchiha stuff happened except Izuna and Madara. None of it was shown in the manga. So yes, Itachi is much stronger than all of them

Kabuto>>>Jiraiya by a large amount.

Tobirama never showed genjutsu defense....and thus he doesn't have it until proven otherwise.

Bringer of Darkness was only done by Hashirama in the manga, and regardless, Sharingan sees through all genjutsu so it wouldn't work.

Itachi's proven faster than Bee and Naruto, putting him on par with A in speed.

He's used Susanoo and Totsuka sword before, he'd use it again if he needed it (he wouldn't).

Tobirama has no counters to anything Itachi can do. Itachi stomps via finger point.

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Jayimfamous

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Now y'all have y'all facts anything else you need and I'll give it up to u guys... Tobirama body flicker jutsu with space time jutsu instant untraceable. Everything I am saying is fact @106 go look up my backings.

Itachi to madara is no comparison. Itachi didn't even come close to possessing the rinnegan and madara did have it when he died.

Y'all are some itachi band riders lol

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Jayimfamous

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@darkraiden: are you be blind to what I just wrote the bringer of darkness jutsu is the defense and what you think he has been doing all of these yrs...

He has been killing uchiha a all his life you can't be that much of a fan boy my g... What makes itachi different from the rest of the uchiha they all prettier much use genjutsu.

Yes itachi is good but the way your making sound like he's the only uchiha around that has genjutsu. Tobirama has been racking up uchiha bodies for yrs this isn't nothing new to him.

Itachi doesn't beat no minato not in a million yrs. He didn't even want to go against obito and we know he would've lost that fight. The bringer of darkness clearly states that it blocks out all eyesight regardless of the users prowess and your telling me it does. I call that be a fan boy there's no sense talking to you because you put find print in your face and you still can't comprehend what I'm saying and showing you. Itachi knowing the person he is wouldn't use the totsuka and yata mirror unless he had no choice but to use it.

It drains to much chakra and even still if he's marked there's no way that itachi can trace his space time jutsu. Also I won't you to show me where it says that itachi is on par with speed with A 4th raikage. Your lying it's stated from A MOUTH that only one person was faster than him and that was minato. He told naruto that he was the second person to avoid getting hit or moving faster than him. Bee doesn't move faster than dam naruto. So your talking pure nonsense go look up things now I know that your just talking and that your a super fan boy. Kabuto didn't even posses the ability that jiraiya had what are you smoking even with him at sage mode.kabuto gave him problems whe he had help from saskue.

Itachi beats everyone in naruto right lmdao man man man lol

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DarkRaiden

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@darkraiden: are you be blind to what I just wrote the bringer of darkness jutsu is the defense and what you think he has been doing all of these yrs...

He has been killing uchiha a all his life you can't be that much of a fan boy my g... What makes itachi different from the rest of the uchiha they all prettier much use genjutsu.

Yes itachi is good but the way your making sound like he's the only uchiha around that has genjutsu. Tobirama has been racking up uchiha bodies for yrs this isn't nothing new to him.

Itachi doesn't beat no minato not in a million yrs. He didn't even want to go against obito and we know he would've lost that fight. The bringer of darkness clearly states that it blocks out all eyesight regardless of the users prowess and your telling me it does. I call that be a fan boy there's no sense talking to you because you put find print in your face and you still can't comprehend what I'm saying and showing you. Itachi knowing the person he is wouldn't use the totsuka and yata mirror unless he had no choice but to use it.

It drains to much chakra and even still if he's marked there's no way that itachi can trace his space time jutsu. Also I won't you to show me where it says that itachi is on par with speed with A 4th raikage. Your lying it's stated from A MOUTH that only one person was faster than him and that was minato. He told naruto that he was the second person to avoid getting hit or moving faster than him. Bee doesn't move faster than dam naruto. So your talking pure nonsense go look up things now I know that your just talking and that your a super fan boy. Kabuto didn't even posses the ability that jiraiya had what are you smoking even with him at sage mode.kabuto gave him problems whe he had help from saskue.

Itachi beats everyone in naruto right lmdao man man man lol

No Uchiha have shown genjutsu except Itachi. Even Sasuke only does it on occasion, and Madara has done it just once.

Bringer of Darkness is unproven and sharingan specifically says it counters all genjutsu. Bringer of Darkness is a genjutsu. And Tobirama can't do it. and beating featless Uchiha means nothing.

Minato gets stomped. No genjutsu defense.

You're not even a fanboy just ignorant, and delusional. Itachi outfought Bee and naruto, having to warn them when he attacks. That puts him on par with A. It's called feats. Statements don't matter, only feats.

Kabuto was far above Jiraiya. Not even close. Jiraiya can't hurt Kabuto with his water form, infinte sage mode, and Kimimaro's bones. Also his much faster sound genjutsu and dragon shout that paralyzes people.

And Kabuto gave no one trouble. itachi had to protect Sasuke due to mistakes he made. And even then both had to try not to kill him and he had perfect genjutsu defense. Itachi still won.

Go read, go learn, go get feats, go understand. Itachi stomps.

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Marshall_Long

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Both are good strategist but Itachi physical stats are higher he should win.

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Flash_Batarang22

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Itachi destroys Tobirama,Minato and J-man in mere seconds

this dudes doesn't have genjutsu defenses

one look in Itachi's eyes and their dead

one point of Itachi's finger and their dead

Hell Itachi with the right stamina can give Madara or Hashirama a run for their money

Totsuka you know

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martinceld

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since tobirama just got a bunch of screen (panel) time, imma bump this!

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tobi

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JustSomeRandomKid

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Itachi still stomps. He's like the upper crust of the Top Tiers (not God Tiers) of Naruto. He actually has quantifiable feats and they're good ones at that.

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#38  Edited By reactor

I think I'd side with Tobimara on this one. In the warring states period, the Senju clan were pretty much anti-Uchiha specialists, with Tobimara being on Madara's level. If genjutsu was such a deadly weapon against them, Izuna (who had the mangekyou sharingan) would have slaughtered him early on. Instead, it was the other way around. I don't Itachi will be able to bring anything to the table that Tobimara has not already bested already.

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Mee09

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#39  Edited By Mee09

@noone301994 said:

@darkraiden said:

Itachi stomps. Itachi beats everyone in naruto who hasn't shown genjutsu defense and that's a fact. All it takes is a finger point, and Tobirama's done.

Not to mention Itachi's one of the fastest in the entire series, and has great taijutsu, exploding clones, Amaterasu, Tsukyomi, Susanoo, and SoT and Yata Mirror. Tobirama has counters to approximately none of these. But it's unnecessary. All Itachi has to do is point.

This right here. Itachi is the king of Genjutsu.

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The_Titan_Lord

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Tobirama

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TheVivas

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Tobi

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NighThunder

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DarkSlumber

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Tobirama wins this

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ComicStooge

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Itachi outfought Bee and naruto, having to warn them when he attacks. That puts him on par with A. It's called feats. Statements don't matter, only feats.

Naruto stalemated him while mid-conversation and Bee made him retreat. He outfought no one.

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ComicStooge

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Anyway, Tobirama uses the same trick he used on Izuna.

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andr413

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#46  Edited By andr413

Tobirama take this

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andr413

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Tobirama wins, Itachi can't beat ninja from senju clan, stamina is one of main factors why uchihas lose to them

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Itachi could win, I think. The only thing that would really make me want to put Tobirama above Itachi is the fact that he has fought Uchiha his entire life, or at least most of it.

That being said, I don't think Tobirama has ever fought an Uchiha who is constantly trying to place him in genjutsu. From Madara and Sasuke we can see that they don't go out of their way to use genjutsu, instead they simply use it as a supplement for their other techniques. Itachi usually starts off with it and constantly tries to put his enemies into it, due to his pacifist nature. This is what I think could bring him the win.

Tobirama has one really good reaction feat, but little to no speed feats, while Itachi was able to blitz Bee, whom reacted to Minato's FTG. With the Sharingan, I have little to no doubt that Itachi would be able to react to Tobirama. At the same time, however, i'm pretty sure Tobirama could also react to Itachi.

Another thing to note is that Tobirama's FTG is not as versatile as Minato's because of the lack of Kunai. So Tobirama really has to mark things as the fight goes on, which won't be happening with Itachi around i.e. he likes to end fights quickly.

Given that they're pretty even, either could win. If we assume that Tobirama has some way to completely avoid Genjutsu, like Gai does, then he wins. If he doesn't, Itachi wins.

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bull909

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Tobirama wins this obviously.

  • Tobirama has been fighting Uchihas since he was a little boy and he is an elite ninja.
  • This guy CREATED EDO TENSEI and probably A LOT OF FORBIDDEN JUTSUS THAT ITACHI COULDN'T POSSIBLY PREPARE FOR.
  • He already killed Izuna, an elite Uchiha with the Mangekyou.
  • Everyone forgets that, despite being siblings, Tobirama is the right hand man of Hashirama Senju, whom is considered the "God of Shinobi"

Everyone keeps saying "genjutsu" will be the key to winning, but obviously the Senjus have a lot of tricks up their sleeve to not just lose to a genjutsu. Otherwise, the war between the Senju and Uchiha would have ended differently.

Furthermore, Tobirama didn't even flinch when Sasuke, who had Mangekyou, (granted Tobirama probably doesn't know if it was EMS) tried to threaten to destroy Konoha.

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ComicStooge

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@bull909 said:

Tobirama wins this obviously.

  • Tobirama has been fighting Uchihas since he was a little boy and he is an elite ninja.
  • This guy CREATED EDO TENSEI and probably A LOT OF FORBIDDEN JUTSUS THAT ITACHI COULDN'T POSSIBLY PREPARE FOR.
  • He already killed Izuna, an elite Uchiha with the Mangekyou.
  • Everyone forgets that, despite being siblings, Tobirama is the right hand man of Hashirama Senju, whom is considered the "God of Shinobi"

Everyone keeps saying "genjutsu" will be the key to winning, but obviously the Senjus have a lot of tricks up their sleeve to not just lose to a genjutsu. Otherwise, the war between the Senju and Uchiha would have ended differently.

Furthermore, Tobirama didn't even flinch when Sasuke, who had Mangekyou, (granted Tobirama probably doesn't know if it was EMS) tried to threaten to destroy Konoha.

Exactly. He'd never look into Itachi's eyes and that finger genjutsu isn't that powerful - it's just a regular genjutsu. Naruto resisted Itachi's sleep command and almost broke out of it.