TOBA Hulk vs Mr. Mxyztplk

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Underfire47

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@mbatz said:
@underfire47 said:

@mbatz: You are literally rambling nonsense, also the fly went back in time and still didn't change the outcome of the future, it literally says there at the end of the comic, the fly's time travel didn't affect TOBA.

The author likes to leave it ambiguous for the reader, the editor of that particular comic already confirmed it was a multiverse.

Hulk destroyed divinity, creation and entire concepts like light and color, he wasn't just going around destroying a 3D universe....

That means by default hulk wouldn’t be able to contend if you are aware that hulk can only destroy 3D constucts and not 4D constructs such as a universe or pocket dimension.

Mr. Mxy destroys 4D contracts regularly so you’ve proven yourself wrong even with your multiversal hulk which I agree he is he doesn’t have feats to kill the unkillable.

Mxy kills him since he’s stronger then most DC multiversal beings

He destroyed 4D concepts, again you are rambling nonsense and don't know the material.

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Master_ChadDuby

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@mbatz: I didn’t say he wins, but to do that he had to posses the ability to traverse the multiverse because to teach different points in the multiverse you have to be able keep up with variation of space and time...

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SarahPopkins

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Mxy thinks him out of existence

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MichaelJulius

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I'm not supporting Trigon in a win, I was just saying Trigon can probably sustain Mxy's powers for a reason.

@mbatz said:
@michaeljulius said:

Trigon is special. While is raw power isn't nearly on Multiversal level, he has special perks. He is divine. He is a demon of the likes from Vertigo and The Presence, he isn't a normal cosmic entity. He can revive angels from Heaven who perished. He is divinely inspired and has special abilities that even 5th Dimension Imps cannot touch. Similarly to how Superboy Prime has perks that disallow Imps to affect them in full, so too, does Trigon.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3
@mbatz said:
@professorrespect said:

As every version of Mxy is canon now due to him stating that there's only one of him in all of his fictional appearances, he loses due to losing to Injustice Trigon

He didn’t lose then because trigon was banished he only made it appear that he had banished

That’s is fascinating but that doesnt mean Mr. Mxy lost in that universe if he would reappear later meaning the spell that is keeping trigon at bay didn’t work in Mr. Mxy not to mention Mr. Mxy being a contest for trigon was for plot.

You forgot that in the scan where Mxy says there is one of him across all DC it shows Justice League action Mxy, if comic Mxy is that Mxy then he really is allowing plot to dictate he’s actions.

There is also DCAU superman so he’s also appeared in that universe and was beaten, and lego Mr. Mxy he is obviously either not using full power and he rarely ever does and/or he is allowing for plot to dictate.

A no morals trying Mxy has threatened the DC multiverse which has being like endless in them in the sphere Of the Gods

Mxy should win if we said he was a strong as any random endless

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mbatz

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@mbatz said:
@underfire47 said:

@mbatz: You are literally rambling nonsense, also the fly went back in time and still didn't change the outcome of the future, it literally says there at the end of the comic, the fly's time travel didn't affect TOBA.

The author likes to leave it ambiguous for the reader, the editor of that particular comic already confirmed it was a multiverse.

Hulk destroyed divinity, creation and entire concepts like light and color, he wasn't just going around destroying a 3D universe....

That means by default hulk wouldn’t be able to contend if you are aware that hulk can only destroy 3D constucts and not 4D constructs such as a universe or pocket dimension.

Mr. Mxy destroys 4D contracts regularly so you’ve proven yourself wrong even with your multiversal hulk which I agree he is he doesn’t have feats to kill the unkillable.

Mxy kills him since he’s stronger then most DC multiversal beings

He destroyed 4D concepts, again you are rambling nonsense and don't know the material.

Why lie??? Everyone knows he hasn’t destroyed a 4D construct, he has destroyed 4D dimensional beings but that doesn’t make a person 4D, like rebirth superman beating world forger. Or flash creating flashpoint.

The only wank possible is saying Hulk ate the 9th version of eternity that’s it but feat wise he has never destroyed a 4D construct like a universe or let alone infinite 4D constructs like a multiverse. Just 3D constructs over eons of years. AND even if he did scale of eternity that’s not impressive at all.

Mr. Mxy thinks him out of existence feat wise

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Underfire47

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@mbatz: He destroyed stuff even beyond 4D constructs, he destroyed divinity and creation itself which rules over everything else. World Forger is garbage, the guy is can get knocked down by a physical punch from less than a planet buster.

He didn't eat them, he smashed them on a metaphysical level, he destroyed a whole multiverse and ended Marvel itself. He also did it systematically by hand.

Mxy is cool and all but he is below divine beings, he can't think out of existence an idea that exists with or without him, that is the endless black void.

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mbatz

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@mbatz: He destroyed stuff even beyond 4D constructs, he destroyed divinity and creation itself which rules over everything else. World Forger is garbage, the guy is can get knocked down by a physical punch from less than a planet buster.

He didn't eat them, he smashed them on a metaphysical level, he destroyed a whole multiverse and ended Marvel itself. He also did it systematically by hand.

Mxy is cool and all but he is below divine beings, he can't think out of existence an idea that exists with or without him, that is the endless black void.

He didn’t destroy divinity.

He was divinity that’s why the author calls him 9th cosmic hulk in that twitter post, he is the 9th incarnation of eternity after he ate the sentience if the 9th multiverse.

Hulk never destroye’d 4D constructs. Show a scan of him destroying a universe and it’s time-space.

All we see is him destroying 3D constructs like matter in the form of stars, planets, moons, galaxies throughout the multiverse.

Also even if he did destroy 1 or 2 universe which he didnt that’s not impressive at all.

If hulk was 4D infinite then there would be no time for the fly to travel back in time through.

Last time you tried to say the fly did nothing, it doesn’t matter if it didn’t change time the fact that time exists means that time existed snd Hulk was incapable of destroying time, featwise Mxy wins.

TOBA hulk is not 4D infinite otherwise he would’ve destroyed all of time, something that TOBA hulk didn’t do.

Mxy has casually destroyed space-time continuum’s.

Mxy wins

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Underfire47

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@mbatz: Yes he did.

No, he is not the incarnation of Eternity and that's not why he called him the 9th cosmic Hulk, nor has it anything to do with what he was talking.

He literally destroyed the entire multiverse and all the abstracts in it and even the tiddying fly that went back in time to prevent this from happening, didn't change it from happening, he exists outside time/space constraints.

The constructs being destroyed were not just simple planet, stars and whatnot, any herald+ level character can do that let alone abstracts, he destroyed creation itself, that was the point he was dismantling creation and destroyed light as well as the whole concept of color.

No he destroyed the whole multiverse.

The fly didn't do anything. Why would TOBA Hulk destroy time? When has he shown tenancies to want to destroy time?

Again why would TOBA Hulk want to destroy all of time? His ultimate goal was laid out pretty plainly in the comic, he wanted to kill all life and be the only being left in all of existence, which is what he achieved, where does him wanting to destroy time itself factor into any of that?

Mxy also got beaten by Trigon, a character who is on the cosmic scale well lesser than guys like Presence or Lucifer or anything like that which guys like TOAA or TOBA are closer to. Mxy isn't even divine, which makes him at least a whole tier lower than these characters.

Mxy can't win this fight.

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mbatz

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#109  Edited By mbatz

@underfire47 said:

@mbatz: Yes he did.

No, he is not the incarnation of Eternity and that's not why he called him the 9th cosmic Hulk, nor has it anything to do with what he was talking.

He literally destroyed the entire multiverse and all the abstracts in it and even the tiddying fly that went back in time to prevent this from happening, didn't change it from happening, he exists outside time/space constraints.

The constructs being destroyed were not just simple planet, stars and whatnot, any herald+ level character can do that let alone abstracts, he destroyed creation itself, that was the point he was dismantling creation and destroyed light as well as the whole concept of color.

No he destroyed the whole multiverse.

The fly didn't do anything. Why would TOBA Hulk destroy time? When has he shown tenancies to want to destroy time?

Again why would TOBA Hulk want to destroy all of time? His ultimate goal was laid out pretty plainly in the comic, he wanted to kill all life and be the only being left in all of existence, which is what he achieved, where does him wanting to destroy time itself factor into any of that?

Mxy also got beaten by Trigon, a character who is on the cosmic scale well lesser than guys like Presence or Lucifer or anything like that which guys like TOAA or TOBA are closer to. Mxy isn't even divine, which makes him at least a whole tier lower than these characters.

Mxy can't win this fight.

Your argument is a sad repetition of arguments that have not yet been proven that’s what’s called a burden of proof fallacy.

You say that hulk isn’t the 9th incarnation of the multiverse after eating the 9th sentience of the multiverse but then why does author Call him the 9th cosmic hulk answer this and provide evidence.

Yes I do agree he destroyed the multiverse on a 3D infinite level, he never destroyed a universe nor does he function out of time because he functioned on the same realm as the beings that created the tidding fly, if you believe hulk is outerversal and can destroy a multiverse on a 4D infinite level provide evidence.

Everyone has only seen him destroy 3D obstructa and he existed in times restraints. So I’m not sure what gave you the idea hes outversal, beyond time and space when he existed in the multiverse. Also all abstracts arent on Mxy’s level anyway.

TOBA Hulk was not destroying concepts to say such a thing would be to put him on par with pre-retcon beyonder. Destroying the marvel multiverse isn’t impressive either way it happens frequently. The Galactus explosion, Adam warlock waking up, Mikaboshi multiversal destruction.

Using the argument that TOBA hulk doesn’t have the objective to destroy time doesn‘t disprove two arguments

The first being that is doesnt disprove the fact that TOBA hulk can’t destroy 4D constructs such as universes and there space time since he doesn’t have the energy projection to do so nor does he function on a plane of existence were he can do that. If you believe otherwise provide evidence.

The second argument that your argument raises is that he can’t kill abstracts such as Chronos Embodiment of Time, Infinity or Sire Hate in fact especially Sire Hate he’s the embodiment of all hate and anger. Destroying all of 3D constructs apart from himself would only mean time, infinite and hate would remain in the universe meaning most abstracts would cease to exist but those abstracts wouldn’t be able to be killed, unless your suggesting Dr. Doom who tried to kill Mephisto with beyonders power and an infinity gauntlet is inferior to this hulk. But like I said prove he killed the abstracts in a fight and not killing every being in existence which would lead to there deaths, which wouldn’t work on Mxy.

Also you asked what does hulk not wanting to destroy time have to do with anything, it means he doesn’t have feats to destroy entire 4D constructs such a Universe and it’s space-time.

Lastly your logic is flawed and your clearly new to DC. In the scan in which Mxy says there is only one of him in the multiverse, it showcases injustice Mxy, Lego Mxy, DCAU Mxy and Justice League action Mxy. Mxy in comics has better feats than all Mxy mentioned meaning he was holding back which he always does and/or in conjuction allowed for plot to dictate he’s actions.

Using Trigon for scaling is stupid becauss he didn’t t lose to Trigon you dont even know what happened you keep saying he was BFR’d by trigon but he was BFR’D by Dr. Fate with Trigon as in both of them got BFR’D.

Edit: Your the type of person to say Fate is above Mxy no he reappear in other media which is proof the BFR didn’t work on him but worked on trigon further cementing the idea that Mxy allows plot to dictates he’s actions.

Mxy has destroyed the DC multiverse which is above the marvel multiverse. To explain this marvel multiverse is just infinite universes.

The DC multiverse has multiple layers which are seperated into two categories. Spatial dimensions, length, width, height (space), time, imagination and the 6th dimension which is the control room.

After the spatial dimensions there are vibrational realms with each level being a level of infinite above the one below.

The lowest vibrational realm is the quarry of worlds which has infinite universes and infinite dark universes. Then there are several vibrational realms above that. The endless inhabit the Sphere Of Gods each one being definitely above marvel abstracts as there existence isn’t tied to creation like abstracts and some being able to destroy limbo which is above Infinite universes.

Mxy is above endless, I can’t hate you, upon debating with you I see your not knowledgable on the DC cosmology. Using divinity as an excuse to say Mxy isn’t comparable is a bad argument, Darkseid is a God, so is Zeus, and spectre is the incarnation of the presences rage yet all people mentioned have been beaten by Mr. Mxy.

Mxy wins featwise and it wouldn’t be close.

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Underfire47

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@mbatz: You just repeated everything you already said including the insertions that you haven't backed up.

You have to show me why TOBA Hulk would want to destroy time itself, what are his motivations, when has he attempted to destroy time?

The tidying fly thing happening didn't do anything to change the outcome of the future, despite being sent back in time for that specific reason.

Mxy holding back wouldn't let him be defeated by what should be a much inferior enemy.

Where did i say he was BFR'd by Trigon? You keep putting words here that i never said.

You can't be above what is already omnipotent, DC cosmology being on a superior tier to Marvel is just made up nonsense with nothing to back it up, it's like when Marvel fanboys started saying megaverses and infinity verses and outer realms are above DC, it's just headcannon.

Mxy is not above endless. LOL, i am glad you don't hate me that puts a burden of my shoulder. It's not a bad argument because at the end of the day Mxy is working on a physical and metaphysical level, he isn't working on a level where all of creation comes from, a completely conceptual level that exists outside every other realm of being. You are talking about lesser "gods", these guys are gods the same way Odin or Thor are gods, it has nothing to do with the actual divine.

There is nothing Mxy can do to a being that exists outside of his conceptual realm, a being that can't be destroyed.

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mbatz

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@mbatz: You just repeated everything you already said including the insertions that you haven't backed up.

You have to show me why TOBA Hulk would want to destroy time itself, what are his motivations, when has he attempted to destroy time?

The tidying fly thing happening didn't do anything to change the outcome of the future, despite being sent back in time for that specific reason.

Mxy holding back wouldn't let him be defeated by what should be a much inferior enemy.

Where did i say he was BFR'd by Trigon? You keep putting words here that i never said.

You can't be above what is already omnipotent, DC cosmology being on a superior tier to Marvel is just made up nonsense with nothing to back it up, it's like when Marvel fanboys started saying megaverses and infinity verses and outer realms are above DC, it's just headcannon.

Mxy is not above endless. LOL, i am glad you don't hate me that puts a burden of my shoulder. It's not a bad argument because at the end of the day Mxy is working on a physical and metaphysical level, he isn't working on a level where all of creation comes from, a completely conceptual level that exists outside every other realm of being. You are talking about lesser "gods", these guys are gods the same way Odin or Thor are gods, it has nothing to do with the actual divine.

There is nothing Mxy can do to a being that exists outside of his conceptual realm, a being that can't be destroyed.

Your trolling I though we could have a proper debate

I repeated everything previously cause you don’t know anything about DC its crystal clear

You also said I have to provide evidence that hulk would want to destroy time. But that’s not an antifeat because TOBA hulk has never destroyed time so to get he could and just simply doesn’t want to it like looking at a human being who hasn’t displayed 4D abilities but needs motivation to do so that’s flawed logic. Feats show hulk can’t destroy 4D constructs.

Yes the tidying fly didn’t do anything but it severs to show that TOBA hulk wasn’t operating on another plane of existence and it severe to show he is in the timeline as that is the future hulk.

Your logic about Mxy not allowing inferior people to beat him is also flawed Mr. Mxy is beaten by Superman via BFR and trickery all the time by making him say he’s name backwards.

Also as I said in this scan:

No Caption Provided

It showcases, injustice Mxy, DCAU Mxy, Justice league action Mxy, Lego Mxy and normal Mxy. Mxy in all these stories holds back considerably when compared to comic Mxy which is just proof Mxy holds back or allows Plot to dictate he’s actions

Your argument about me using headconon wasn’t supported by any evidence your the one using head canon. I’ll re explain why DC multiverse>marvel multiverse.

The DC multiverse has multiple layers which are seperated into two categories. Spatial dimensions, length, width, height (space), time, imagination and the 6th dimension which is the control room.

After the spatial dimensions there are vibrational realms with each level being a level of infinite above the one below.

The lowest vibrational realm is the quarry of worlds which has infinite universes and infinite dark universes. Then there are several vibrational realms above that. The endless inhabit the Sphere Of Gods.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

Each endless is definitely above marvel abstracts as there existence isn’t tied to creation like abstracts and some being able to destroy limbo which is above Infinite universes.

Mxy is above endless, I can’t hate you, upon debating with you I see your not knowledgable on the DC cosmology. Using divinity as an excuse to say Mxy isn’t comparable is a bad argument, Darkseid is a God, so is Zeus, and spectre is the incarnation of the presences rage yet all people mentioned have been beaten by Mr. Mxy.

Your whole idea of marvels cosmology is wrong if your saying TOBA is omnipotent when he was smacked by TOAA

Your last arguments did make some sense about Mxy not being able to compare to actual divinity as in TOAA/Presence I though you just meant divinity as in any God.

But even those statements are wrong (dont get it twisted I’m talking about the last things you said not the divinity stuff) because Mxy is Outversal and has threatened the DC multiverse countless times from a realm outside the multiverse.

No Caption Provided

So the idea hes abilities are linked to he’s conceptual reality is and isn’t correct DC has changed he’s abilities do they originate from imagination so he’s people the residents of the 5th dimension are intern imagination constructs of specific concepts Mxy being related to superman and Batmite is self explanatory but this idea is relatively new classic Mxy above would head on down to the marvel multiverse and oneshot it. And even this new concept of Mxy can exist with out the multiverse being destroyed as long as there was enough imagination to fuel him before hand.

Mxy should win

And if you want an in-depth analysis of the new DC cosmology I recommend talking to @etriel

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Underfire47

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@mbatz: If you are unable to keep a conversation and a debate, calling your opponent a troll because you are unable to back up the claims you made isn't a good tactic.

Yes you said TOBA can't destroy time, so i want you to provide me with evidence what made you think that, when did TOBA attempt to destroy time? Or say he can't destroy time? Otherwise you pulled that statement out of nowhere.

It actually does show that, because the tiddying fly going back was suppose to prevent all of that but it literally didn't change a single thing, TOBA couldn't be affected by linear time.

Yes, except he had no reason to lose to Trigon in fact he had all the motivation to not to lose to him, as well as Gog.

Mxy already explained that all the other versions are just him.

It is absolutely headcannon, here is why it is. Explain to me how any of that affects the power structure of any of these characters? None of this dimensions, realms or anything like that imply greater or lesser power between characters. This is all based on assumption that it is, an assumption that's never been proven.

There are dozens if not hundreds of characters with the power to threaten entire multiverses and they are still below someone like Presence or TOAA for the simple reason that Presence and TOAA exist outside all of that are not bothered by lesser characters snapping their fingers and destroying multiverses, Mxy has already admitted inferiority to characters that aren't even close to Presence in power.

So Mxy can never be above Divinity, Beyonders went and one-shot everything in Marvel and they are still fodder to actual divinity.

Mxy can't win.

I see where you got all your misinformation and skewed reasoning, you've been listening too much to guys like Sungasm and Scathan, who can't even stay consistent within their own logic other than lowballing anything from Marvel lol.

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mbatz

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@mbatz: If you are unable to keep a conversation and a debate, calling your opponent a troll because you are unable to back up the claims you made isn't a good tactic.

Yes you said TOBA can't destroy time, so i want you to provide me with evidence what made you think that, when did TOBA attempt to destroy time? Or say he can't destroy time? Otherwise you pulled that statement out of nowhere.

It actually does show that, because the tiddying fly going back was suppose to prevent all of that but it literally didn't change a single thing, TOBA couldn't be affected by linear time.

Yes, except he had no reason to lose to Trigon in fact he had all the motivation to not to lose to him, as well as Gog.

Mxy already explained that all the other versions are just him.

It is absolutely headcannon, here is why it is. Explain to me how any of that affects the power structure of any of these characters? None of this dimensions, realms or anything like that imply greater or lesser power between characters. This is all based on assumption that it is, an assumption that's never been proven.

There are dozens if not hundreds of characters with the power to threaten entire multiverses and they are still below someone like Presence or TOAA for the simple reason that Presence and TOAA exist outside all of that are not bothered by lesser characters snapping their fingers and destroying multiverses, Mxy has already admitted inferiority to characters that aren't even close to Presence in power.

So Mxy can never be above Divinity, Beyonders went and one-shot everything in Marvel and they are still fodder to actual divinity.

Mxy can't win.

I see where you got all your misinformation and skewed reasoning, you've been listening too much to guys like Sungasm and Scathan, who can't even stay consistent within their own logic other than lowballing anything from Marvel lol.

Once again you’ve disproved nothing.

TOBA can’t destRoy time because we haven’t seen him destroy him, just like an ant cant destroy time because we haven’t seen it destroy time. That’s a burden of proof fallacy the burden of proof falls on you to support the claim.

The tiding fly hasn’t done anything because the story hasn’t progressed that far forward. Either way the tidying fly is prrof that the TOBA hulk exists in the time steam because to exist out of it is to not be in that universe at all and we all know TOBA hulk is going to be non-existent just like King Thanos.

Also your statement of Mxy having all the motivation to kill an ant(trigo) is hilarious, I literally show you a scan of Mxy about to destroy the multiverse and you refer to trigon who he is clearly playing with.

Like I said already the scan of Mxy saying he exists in all mediums of the reality showcases, injustice Mxy, DCAU Mxy, Justice league action Mxy, Lego Mxy and normal Mxy. Mxy in all these stories holds back considerably when compared to comic Mxy which is just proof Mxy holds back or allows Plot to dictate he’s actions otherwise he would ONESHOT THAT UNIVERSE

Mxy wins

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UltraPhoenix

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@mbatz: Yes he did.

No, he is not the incarnation of Eternity and that's not why he called him the 9th cosmic Hulk, nor has it anything to do with what he was talking.

He literally destroyed the entire multiverse and all the abstracts in it and even the tiddying fly that went back in time to prevent this from happening, didn't change it from happening, he exists outside time/space constraints.

The constructs being destroyed were not just simple planet, stars and whatnot, any herald+ level character can do that let alone abstracts, he destroyed creation itself, that was the point he was dismantling creation and destroyed light as well as the whole concept of color.

No he destroyed the whole multiverse.

The fly didn't do anything. Why would TOBA Hulk destroy time? When has he shown tenancies to want to destroy time?

Again why would TOBA Hulk want to destroy all of time? His ultimate goal was laid out pretty plainly in the comic, he wanted to kill all life and be the only being left in all of existence, which is what he achieved, where does him wanting to destroy time itself factor into any of that?

Mxy also got beaten by Trigon, a character who is on the cosmic scale well lesser than guys like Presence or Lucifer or anything like that which guys like TOAA or TOBA are closer to. Mxy isn't even divine, which makes him at least a whole tier lower than these characters.

Mxy can't win this fight.

@rampagethefirst

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Underfire47

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@mbatz: Once again you've proved nothing.

Where has TOBA attempted to destroy time? You made a claim he can't do it, so tell me what made you think that? Where did he attempt that?

No the tiddying fly hasn't done anything because it literally states in the comic the future hasn't changed at all, nothing changed. TOBA Hulk exists in Marvel 616 future canon, this is the canon 616 future, which is why even in the History of the Marvel universe Al Ewing and Mark Waid have talked about tying in Franklin Richards and Galactus to TOBA Hulk.

There are dozesn/hundreds of characters that can destroy a multiverse, so? TOBA Hulk himself killed a bunch of them already, doesn't impress me.

Holding back doesn't affect your durability, if someone can't hurt you or hurt you enough to beat you they can't do it, no matter how much you hold back.

He can't win.

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20damon

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Hulk easily.

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mbatz

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@ultraphoenix: Mate I can tell you know nothing about DC if you think Mxy lost to Trigon your just following the hype train, he got BFR’d by Dr. Fate with Trigon in injustice and when has Mxy ever actually wanted the destruction of all things, Mxy in the same come said he just wanted to have he’s fun.

No Caption Provided

In the scan above it showcases, injustice Mxy, DCAU Mxy, Justice league action Mxy, Lego Mxy and normal Mxy. Mxy in all these stories holds back considerably when compared to comic Mxy were he has destroyed universes and the multiverse which is just proof Mxy holds back or allows Plot to dictate he’s actions.

Let the grown ups talk

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UltraPhoenix

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#118  Edited By UltraPhoenix

@mbatz: Uhh what? I quoted UnderFire47's post and tagged Rampage in it, because he's quite knowledgable on Mxy, I'm not the one making the statement, you got the wrong guy buddy.

For a grown up, you sure seem to have trouble understanding how this site works.

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mbatz

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#120  Edited By mbatz

@ultraphoenix said:

@mbatz: Uhh what? I quoted UnderFire47's post and tagged Rampage in it, because he's quite knowledgable on Mxy, I'm not the one making the statement, you got the wrong guy buddy.

For a grown up, you sure seem to have trouble understanding how this site works.

I sincerely apologise, nah the other guy isn’t knowledgable on Mxy.

Edit: Rampage the first is knowledgable I meant under fire isn’t

He’s argument is TOBA hulk has never had the motivstion to destroy a space-time so he can he just hasn’t shown the ability, which is flawed because he’s saying he has no feats to do such a thing but I think he can. Head canon.

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@mbatz: From what I've seen of TOBA Hulk it's pretty limited and weak compared to Mxy, you would have to reach pretty far to put him on Mxy's level. I think Mxy would quite easily deal with Hulk

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Underfire47

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#123  Edited By Underfire47

@mbatz:

Yes you said TOBA can't destroy time, so i want you to provide me with evidence what made you think that, when did TOBA attempt to destroy time? Or say he can't destroy time? Otherwise you pulled that statement out of nowhere.

It actually does show that, because the tiddying fly going back was suppose to prevent all of that but it literally didn't change a single thing, TOBA couldn't be affected by linear time.

Yes, except he had no reason to lose to Trigon in fact he had all the motivation to not to lose to him, as well as Gog.

Mxy already explained that all the other versions are just him.

It is absolutely headcannon, here is why it is. Explain to me how any of that affects the power structure of any of these characters? None of this dimensions, realms or anything like that imply greater or lesser power between characters. This is all based on assumption that it is, an assumption that's never been proven.

There are dozens if not hundreds of characters with the power to threaten entire multiverses and they are still below someone like Presence or TOAA for the simple reason that Presence and TOAA exist outside all of that are not bothered by lesser characters snapping their fingers and destroying multiverses, Mxy has already admitted inferiority to characters that aren't even close to Presence in power.

So Mxy can never be above Divinity, Beyonders went and one-shot everything in Marvel and they are still fodder to actual divinity.

Mxy can't win.

I see where you got all your misinformation and skewed reasoning, you've been listening too much to guys like Sungasm and Scathan, who can't even stay consistent within their own logic other than lowballing anything from Marvel lol.

I can understand you have little to no knowledge on any of this and just repeat things you've read from respect threads and such, i can't hate you but only pity you, however until you understand that conceptual tiering that has divinity above simple metaphysical characters like Mxy there really isn't much to discuss here.

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Underfire47

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From what I've seen of TOBA Hulk it's pretty limited and weak compared to Mxy, you would have to reach pretty far to put him on Mxy's level. I think Mxy would quite easily deal with Hulk

Based on what exactly? The writer and creator literally stated he is the dark side of the same coin as TOAA is, a character that is omnipotent, what is Mxy suppose to do to a character that exists outside his conceptual understanding?

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mbatz

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@ultraphoenix: This guy hasn’t read anything I’ve said he still think Mxy lost to Trigon. Lmao

And he’s still asking me to prove TOBA hulk cant destroy something when he doesn’t have the feats. Like what XD

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#126  Edited By mbatz
@underfire47 said:

@mbatz: Once again you've proved nothing.

Where has TOBA attempted to destroy time? You made a claim he can't do it, so tell me what made you think that? Where did he attempt that?

No the tiddying fly hasn't done anything because it literally states in the comic the future hasn't changed at all, nothing changed. TOBA Hulk exists in Marvel 616 future canon, this is the canon 616 future, which is why even in the History of the Marvel universe Al Ewing and Mark Waid have talked about tying in Franklin Richards and Galactus to TOBA Hulk.

There are dozesn/hundreds of characters that can destroy a multiverse, so? TOBA Hulk himself killed a bunch of them already, doesn't impress me.

Holding back doesn't affect your durability, if someone can't hurt you or hurt you enough to beat you they can't do it, no matter how much you hold back.

He can't win.

It’s funny how you talk formally it is clear you are try to misrepresent my claims in the eyes of others your mistaken if you think that will dwindle my efforts.

TOBA HULK CAN’T DESTROY TIME

TOBA HULK destroyed the multiverse on a 3D infinite level, he never destroyed a universe nor does he function out of time because he functioned on the same realm as the beings that created the tidding fly, if you believe hulk is outerversal and can destroy a multiverse on a 4D infinite level provide evidence.

Your logic is flawed if you think saying TOBA hulk has never tried to destroy time so he can very well be above it, whilst showing zero feats that suggest he can destroy time.

In fact your argument is that because TOBA hulk has no feats for destroying a universe and it’s time-space so he can destroy and he just doesn’t have the motivation to do so. Thats the dummest argument I’ve ever seen. It’s because he hasn’t destroyed space-time continuums he is automatically below people who have destroyed them. The whole divine idea doesn’t work Mxy beat spectre.

Also your argument he can kill is flawed, abstracts such as Chronos Embodiment of Time, Infinity or Sire Hate in fact especially Sire Hate who is the embodiment of all hate and anger wouldn’t be someone hulk can kill since to kill a conceptual being you have to eliminate the concept, to kill hate/anger incarnate all beings hulk being the last being must stop being angry.

Destroying all of 3D constructs apart from himself would only mean time, infinite and hate meaning abstracts time, infinite and hate would remain in the universe meaning most abstracts would cease to exist but those abstracts wouldn’t be able to be killed, unless your suggesting Dr. Doom who tried to kill Mephisto with beyonders power and an infinity gauntlet is inferior to this hulk.

But like I said prove he killed the abstracts in a fight and not killing every being in existence which would lead to there deaths, which wouldn’t work on Mxy.

MXY IS ABOVE TOBA HULK FEATS-WISE

The DC multiverse has multiple layers which are seperated into two categories. Spatial dimensions, length, width, height (space), time, imagination and the 6th dimension which is the control room.

After the spatial dimensions there are vibrational realms with each level being a level of infinite above the one below.

The lowest vibrational realm is the quarry of worlds which has infinite universes and infinite dark universes. Then there are several vibrational realms above that. The endless inhabit the Sphere Of Gods.

Each endless is definitely above marvel abstracts as previously explained as there existence isn’t tied to creation, like abstracts and some being able to hold and threaten to destroy limbo which is infinitely above infinite universes

Mxy is above endless, I can’t hate you, upon debating with you I see your not knowledgable on the DC cosmology. Using divinity as an excuse to say Mxy isn’t comparable is a bad argument, Darkseid is a God, so is Zeus, and spectre is the incarnation of the presences rage yet all people mentioned have been beaten by Mr. Mxy.

Your whole idea of marvels cosmology is wrong if your saying TOBA is omnipotent when he was smacked by TOAA

Each endless is definitely above marvel abstracts as there existence isn’t tied to creation like abstracts and some being able to destroy limbo which is above Infinite universes.
Each endless is definitely above marvel abstracts as there existence isn’t tied to creation like abstracts and some being able to destroy limbo which is above Infinite universes.

Divinity has nothing to do with actual power, the presence was killed by Mandrakk Dax Novu, Spectre was beaten by a not trying Mxy and he is divinity.

Mxy is Outversal and has threatened the DC multiverse countless times from a realm outside the multiverse.

No Caption Provided

Mxy wins

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Underfire47

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@mbatz:

He literally destroyed the entire multiverse and all the abstracts in it and even the tiddying fly that went back in time to prevent this from happening, didn't change it from happening, he exists outside time/space constraints.

The constructs being destroyed were not just simple planet, stars and whatnot, any herald+ level character can do that let alone abstracts, he destroyed creation itself, that was the point he was dismantling creation and destroyed light as well as the whole concept of color.

No he destroyed the whole multiverse.

No Caption Provided

The fly didn't do anything. Why would TOBA Hulk destroy time? When has he shown tenancies to want to destroy time?

Again why would TOBA Hulk want to destroy all of time? His ultimate goal was laid out pretty plainly in the comic, he wanted to kill all life and be the only being left in all of existence, which is what he achieved, where does him wanting to destroy time itself factor into any of that?

He destroyed the concept of light, color and memories, he turned them into fiction, he broke it all

No Caption Provided

Mxy also got beaten by Trigon, a character who is on the cosmic scale well lesser than guys like Presence or Lucifer or anything like that which guys like TOAA or TOBA are closer to. Mxy isn't even divine, which makes him at least a whole tier lower than these characters.

You have to show me why TOBA Hulk would want to destroy time itself, what are his motivations, when has he attempted to destroy time?

The tidying fly thing happening didn't do anything to change the outcome of the future, despite being sent back in time for that specific reason.

Mxy holding back wouldn't let him be defeated by what should be a much inferior enemy.

Where did i say he was BFR'd by Trigon? You keep putting words here that i never said.

You can't be above what is already omnipotent, DC cosmology being on a superior tier to Marvel is just made up nonsense with nothing to back it up, it's like when Marvel fanboys started saying megaverses and infinity verses and outer realms are above DC, it's just headcannon.

Mxy is not above endless. LOL, i am glad you don't hate me that puts a burden of my shoulder. It's not a bad argument because at the end of the day Mxy is working on a physical and metaphysical level, he isn't working on a level where all of creation comes from, a completely conceptual level that exists outside every other realm of being. You are talking about lesser "gods", these guys are gods the same way Odin or Thor are gods, it has nothing to do with the actual divine.

es you said TOBA can't destroy time, so i want you to provide me with evidence what made you think that, when did TOBA attempt to destroy time? Or say he can't destroy time? Otherwise you pulled that statement out of nowhere.

It actually does show that, because the tiddying fly going back was suppose to prevent all of that but it literally didn't change a single thing, TOBA couldn't be affected by linear time.

Yes, except he had no reason to lose to Trigon in fact he had all the motivation to not to lose to him, as well as Gog.

No Caption Provided

Mxy already explained that all the other versions are just him.

It is absolutely headcannon, here is why it is. Explain to me how any of that affects the power structure of any of these characters? None of this dimensions, realms or anything like that imply greater or lesser power between characters. This is all based on assumption that it is, an assumption that's never been proven.

There are dozens if not hundreds of characters with the power to threaten entire multiverses and they are still below someone like Presence or TOAA for the simple reason that Presence and TOAA exist outside all of that are not bothered by lesser characters snapping their fingers and destroying multiverses, Mxy has already admitted inferiority to characters that aren't even close to Presence in power.

No Caption Provided

So Mxy can never be above Divinity, Beyonders went and one-shot everything in Marvel and they are still fodder to actual divinity.

Mxy can't win.

I see where you got all your misinformation and skewed reasoning, you've been listening too much to guys like Sungasm and Scathan, who can't even stay consistent within their own logic other than lowballing anything from Marvel lol.

I can understand you have little to no knowledge on any of this and just repeat things you've read from respect threads and such, i can't hate you but only pity you, however until you understand that conceptual tiering that has divinity above simple metaphysical characters like Mxy there really isn't much to discuss here.

Where has TOBA attempted to destroy time? You made a claim he can't do it, so tell me what made you think that? Where did he attempt that?

No the tiddying fly hasn't done anything because it literally states in the comic the future hasn't changed at all, nothing changed. TOBA Hulk exists in Marvel 616 future canon, this is the canon 616 future, which is why even in the History of the Marvel universe Al Ewing and Mark Waid have talked about tying in Franklin Richards and Galactus to TOBA Hulk.

There are dozesn/hundreds of characters that can destroy a multiverse, so? TOBA Hulk himself killed a bunch of them already, doesn't impress me. Especially since TOBA is the other side of TOAA

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

Holding back doesn't affect your durability, if someone can't hurt you or hurt you enough to beat you they can't do it, no matter how much you hold back.

Mxy cant win.

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RampageTheFirst

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This has to be a joke lol. Hulk simply gets blinked out of existence.

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Underfire47

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The joke is that a simple imp can do anything to the ultimate personification of the divine evil. It's like trying to slash at an ocean with a knife, it's just not feasible.

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mbatz

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#130  Edited By mbatz

@underfire47 said:

The joke is that a simple imp can do anything to the ultimate personification of the divine evil. It's like trying to slash at an ocean with a knife, it's just not feasible.

Your hilarious

Your the only guy I know that would get a compilation of the authors words comcerning how powerful TOBA and one of those quotes proves everything I’ve said.

Hey @rampagethefirst this guy posted an image that proves himself wrong hahahaha

No Caption Provided

Mr. Mxy>>>>>>>>>>>>>Obilvion>>>>Mephisto>>>>>>TOBA

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RampageTheFirst

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@mbatz: Lol, what do you expect from hulk wankers? they can't debate cosmic characters. They're better off just voting for Hulk without giving an explanation because their explanations are debunked within seconds.

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@mbatz: And you are sad.

Yes because TOBA is a very new character with little in terms of feats, so we have to get the writers perspective on the character. TOAA is the same way, the writer even stated one of the reasons they don't act much at all is because they do, all of reality across all of multiverse shifts, no matter what they do.

I also have no idea why you keep tagging that guy, you don't need to be scared of me, you can talk to me 1v1, no need to ask for help from others.

Also you seem to lack reading comprehension because you think TOBA is weaker than Mephisto and Oblivion lol when Al was talking about him being more powerful than either of them, you think "below all" actually means weaker lol, when he is talking about the being beyond any other coded-as-evil power. Mephisto himself already admitted just a tiny fraction of TOBA was far above him in power.

No Caption Provided

I can't stop laughing... you thought "below all" meant he is weaker than all of them lol.

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#133  Edited By Underfire47
@rampagethefirst said:

@mbatz: Lol, what do you expect from hulk wankers? they can't debate cosmic characters. They're better off just voting for Hulk without giving an explanation because their explanations are debunked within seconds.

Yea you guys really proved that here

"Hulk wankers"

was a good debunk. I mean your friend over there can't even understand a single tweet, he thought the writer saying TOBA is "below all" meant he was weaker than everyone else lol. But seriously remember that one time when you wanked BRB over Hulk and thought he was a planet buster and you got debunked about it? That was pretty good.

Hulk derangement syndrome strikes again.

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mbatz

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@rampagethefirst said:

@mbatz: Lol, what do you expect from hulk wankers? they can't debate cosmic characters. They're better off just voting for Hulk without giving an explanation because their explanations are debunked within seconds.

Yea you guys really proved that here

"Hulk wankers"

was a good debunk. I mean your friend over there can't even understand a single tweet, he thought the writer saying TOBA is "below all" meant he was weaker than everyone else lol. But seriously remember that one time when you wanked BRB over Hulk and thought he was a planet buster and you got debunked about it? That was pretty good.

Hulk derangement syndrome strikes again.

Hahaha, your literacy skills are amazing, in the conversation PROPER ask AI EWINGS if TOBA is stronger than eternity and he outright say he the TOAA is ABOVE ALL including eternity and TOBA is BELOW ALL including mephisto so are you saying ABOVE ALL means WEAKER THAN. Your funny 😂😂😂

Yeah no TOBA isn’t above oblivion or mephisto according to hes statements, using feats he’s 3D infinite but not 4D infinite

Your hilarious

Mxy wins

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BruceRogers

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Wait, there are people who seriously think that by 'below-all', Ewing is saying TOBA is weaker than the likes of Mephisto, Oblivion etc? That's...not what below all means. I mean come on, Ewing had Mephisto admit TOBA is far more powerful and he created him to be TOAA's dark, evil counterpart. I swear, people are acting ignorant on purpose.

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Underfire47

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#136  Edited By Underfire47

@mbatz said:
@underfire47 said:
@rampagethefirst said:

@mbatz: Lol, what do you expect from hulk wankers? they can't debate cosmic characters. They're better off just voting for Hulk without giving an explanation because their explanations are debunked within seconds.

Yea you guys really proved that here

"Hulk wankers"

was a good debunk. I mean your friend over there can't even understand a single tweet, he thought the writer saying TOBA is "below all" meant he was weaker than everyone else lol. But seriously remember that one time when you wanked BRB over Hulk and thought he was a planet buster and you got debunked about it? That was pretty good.

Hulk derangement syndrome strikes again.

Hahaha, your literacy skills are amazing, in the conversation PROPER ask AI EWINGS if TOBA is stronger than eternity and he outright say he the TOAA is ABOVE ALL including eternity and TOBA is BELOW ALL including mephisto so are you saying ABOVE ALL means WEAKER THAN. Your funny 😂😂😂

Yeah no TOBA isn’t above oblivion or mephisto according to hes statements, using feats he’s 3D infinite but not 4D infinite

Your hilarious

Mxy wins

Oh god you are so dense lol. TOAA is The One Above All he is above all coded-as-good entities and TOBA is his opposite as he is below all but not in the sense that is weaker than all but in Ewings sense the lower you are on the evil totem poll the more powerful you are.

You have to be willfully ignorant to interpret his statement the way you do, especially considering Al isn't even sure if TOAA is more powerful than TOBA

No Caption Provided

They are the opposite sides of the same coin. Also i already showed you a scan of Mephisto saying a fraction of TOBA is far stronger than him. In fact someone already asked him about that same tweet and he confirmed he meant TOBA is more powerful.

No Caption Provided

Mxy can't do anything here.

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Andromeda101

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Hulk seems to be the winner by a landslide, at least implication/statements wise.

Completely off-topic now, but I always wondered if Al considers and sees his version of Mephisto as more powerful than the Conductor given his representation of the same during "The Best Defense" storyline. I really need to ask him that someday, heh.

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mbatz

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@underfire47: It really doesn’t matter if hes the strongest evil abstract or not. He can be as strong as Chaos king and that would only make him on par with eternity who is below LT. Since eternity said chaos king is he’s original state.

TOBA hulk is still 3D infinite, if we give him Choas Kings feats then and only then is he 4D infinite and that only puts him on par with Mr. Mxy. Using actual feats TOBA hulk can’t harm Mr. Mxy, destroying creation as you say as in all 3D constructs isn’t 4D.

But I must admit if we take the authors opinion for face value that he is stronger than Mikaboshi Choas King they stalemate.

You have to understand though that anyone who looks at the comic is gonna say when did TOBA HULK destroy a universe. You should’ve simply have said the author said he is the strongest evil abstract above chaos king.

Using feats Mxy

Using statements stalemate

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RampageTheFirst

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@underfire47: Yeah I could care less about your personal rant, TOBA Hulk gets blinked out of existence by Mxy and there's absolutely nothing that suggests he can go up against a Multiversal reality warper, since he has never faced a Multiversal reality warper.

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Underfire47

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@mbatz: Wait are you conflating the Chaos King and Oblivion? Because Chaos King is below Oblivion.

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#141  Edited By Underfire47
@rampagethefirst said:

@underfire47: Yeah I could care less about your personal rant, TOBA Hulk gets blinked out of existence by Mxy and there's absolutely nothing that suggests he can go up against a Multiversal reality warper, since he has never faced a Multiversal reality warper.

Aww... that's a shame, totally. Except for the fact that he faced multiversal reality warpers and killed them, since he killed every living thing including abstracts in the 9th cosmos. You can't blink out of existence a character that is literally described as the endless black void, especially not if you are a simple multiviersal reality warper when we are talking about beings that exist outside the multiverse itself and embody different concepts as well as are extensions of the writers, editors and readers according to the creator of the character, Mxy isn't blinking the dark opposite of TOAA, it's just not happening.

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RampageTheFirst

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@underfire47: Name a single Multiversal reality warper he killed. Abstracts of a singular Universe are not Multiversal, they're Universal, this has been confirmed years ago during the Ultimates run and has never been changed after that. Well I'm sorry but this dark opposite of TOAA is nothing special since he doesn't have the feats to prove it. Not to mention, TOAA isn't anything special either, anyone who reads cosmic related comics should know this.

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#144  Edited By mbatz

@underfire47 said:

@mbatz: Wait are you conflating the Chaos King and Oblivion? Because Chaos King is below Oblivion.

No I’m not combining them I know their seperate beings I’m merely saying if TOBA is above Chaos King the strongest evil abstract who destroyed the entirety of the marvel multiverse as in infinite 4D and doesn’t require the multiverse to exist to be alive then sure TOBA hulk is a stalemate for Mxy.

Edit: but seriously this could’ve been avoid with me asking you to prove he’s above time if you’d said sooner he’s above chaos king according to statements. Featwise I stand my ground firmly that he’d be fodder to Mxy

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Underfire47

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@rampagethefirst: Everyone future Franklin, multi-Eternity, LT, Oblivion, etc... what you don't understand is that he didn't kill abstracts of a singular universe but that of the entire multiverse

No Caption Provided

he singlehandendly literally ended Marvel forever and nothing could stop him. He isn't big on feats since the character appeared in like 2 comics so far, but what he has so far is good enough for this fight. Sure if you go by Jim Starlins TOAA but not the one Al is currently writing

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

So i am not talking about Jim Starlins TOAA who isn't even omnipotent and the comics entire canonicity is questionable to begin with.

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Underfire47

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@mbatz said:
@underfire47 said:

@mbatz: Wait are you conflating the Chaos King and Oblivion? Because Chaos King is below Oblivion.

No I’m not combining them I know their seperate beings I’m merely saying if TOBA is above Chaos King the strongest evil abstract who destroyed the entirety of the marvel multiverse as in infinite 4D and doesn’t require the multiverse to exist to be alive then sure TOBA hulk is a stalemate for Mxy.

Edit: but seriously this could’ve been avoid with me asking you to prove he’s above time if you’d said sooner he’s above chaos king according to statements. Featwise I stand my ground firmly that he’d be fodder to Mxy

What i am trying to say is Chaos King is only one aspect of the infinite Oblivion, he is far weaker than Oblivion

No Caption Provided

And TOBA Hulk is above Oblivion himself who is above Chaos King.

I still don't see how Mxy can do anything featwise to a character that is made out of writers, editors and readers.

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RampageTheFirst

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@underfire47:

Everyone future Franklin, multi-Eternity, LT, Oblivion, etc... what you don't understand is that he didn't kill abstracts of a singular universe but that of the entire multiverse

Scans of this please and how does this make him superior to Mxy? you do realise, Marvels Multiverse isn't as big as DC's correct? not to mention, Mxy exists outside of the Multiverse, in the Omniverse somewhere.

he singlehandendly literally ended Marvel forever and nothing could stop him.

He ended a singular Universe.

He isn't big on feats since the character appeared in like 2 comics so far,

Okay, point proven. Due to lack of feats, Mxy stomps.

but what he has so far is good enough for this fight.

Which is? a few statements about him being Universal? a few statements about him eating Universal beings like FR? nah, thats not good enough, Mxy while being telepathically controlled was erasing the entirety of DC including the metafictional world, this isn't even Mxy using his full powers. So yeah, he definitely doesn't have anything going for him.

Sure if you go by Jim Starlins TOAA but not the one Al is currently writing

Al never said they're two different versions of TOAA, he used the word "assume", he isn't even sure about it. Why do you twitter stalkers always use such statements are concrete proof? he never confirmed it.

So i am not talking about Jim Starlins TOAA who isn't even omnipotent and the comics entire canonicity is questionable to begin with.

Yeah, you're not, doesn't matter what YOU use, I could care less. It's what we HAVE to use since it hasn't been retconned. It's canon, nothing proves otherwise.

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Underfire47

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@rampagethefirst: Scans of this please and how does this make him superior to Mxy? you do realise, Marvels Multiverse isn't as big as DC's correct? not to mention, Mxy exists outside of the Multiverse, in the Omniverse somewhere.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

By what metric exactly? And how does that matter to anything here? Mxy can go outside the multiverse but Mxy originates from inside the Multiverse, TOBA doesn't, he quite literally comes from all of omniverse that includes even us.

He ended a singular Universe.

No Caption Provided

He ended the 9th cosmos which is the multiverse, not a single universe.

Okay, point proven. Due to lack of feats, Mxy stomps.

The feats he already has are more than enough though, Mxy is lower on the totem pole, he can't do shit here.

Which is? a few statements about him being Universal? a few statements about him eating Universal beings like FR? nah, thats not good enough, Mxy while being telepathically controlled was erasing the entirety of DC including the metafictional world, this isn't even Mxy using his full powers. So yeah, he definitely doesn't have anything going for him.

Multiversal, even from the very start when the character was teased and none of us even knew his name or what he was, he was introduced by the writer as a threat for the Marvel multiverse

No Caption Provided

FR in the future is not universal, his powers evolve quite a bit

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The funny part is Mxy can be telepathically controlled someone like TOBA couldn't and TOBA ended entire concepts that exist above the metaphysical even, he decided that memories aren't real and are "fiction" like comic books and they became that.

Al never said they're two different versions of TOAA, he used the word "assume", he isn't even sure about it. Why do you twitter stalkers always use such statements are concrete proof? he never confirmed it.

I never said he did, i am just explaining you how Al is writing TOAA as oppose to Starlin, Starlin doesn't view him as omnipotent, while Al does. So that people like you can whine about such twitter posts and then misrepresent everything that's said. Like you just did now.

Yeah, you're not, doesn't matter what YOU use, I could care less. It's what we HAVE to use since it hasn't been retconned. It's canon, nothing proves otherwise.

Yea and we have to use Ewings interpretation here since he based TOBA of his view on TOAA, not Starlins. It's actually not confirmed whether or not it is canon, Starlin stories are often not-canon especially ones like this, so i wouldn't be surprised either way. However regardless of that we can chuck it up to "poor" writing, the way Dan Jurgen wrote Odin as planetary, despite everyone else viewing him as far above that obviously.

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mbatz

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@underfire47: So basically what you’ve done is ppint out the inconsistency that marvel has since writers don’t acknowledge other writers, e.g. One day in starlings run LT is dead from ultimates, the events of infinity happen Adam warlock wakes up and destroys the multiverse and all its abstracts but for some reason thanos is alive them TOAA brings everyone back and Adam is LT. Then another day further on in marvels continuity Hickman run Dr. Strange Galactus absorbs the magic of the dark dimension and Dormmamu and blows up the multiverse and all its abstracts but for some stupid reason LT is alive and didn’t die with the multiverse.

Abstracts are inconsistent AF, like I said though if we scale him to oblivion who you said was an aspect of Mikaboshi which I admittedly didn’t (know I thought it was the other way around) then one day multiversal extinction is the end of all abstracts the next day Mikaboshi destroys the multiverse in chaos wars and is still alive the day after that another writer doesn’t help the situation and in Dr. Strange LT says something stupid like an “infinitesimal amount of my power is all that is required to restore your multiverse” or something stupid like that.

Ultimately having this long conversation I don’t hate you at all you debated valiantly, the scaling is just retarded because writers don acknowledge other wtriters if you scaled from the time all abstracts were killed by Adam and TOAA brought back the multiverse then multiversal destruction means death of all abstracts Mxy would win. Scale of the time chaos king dest the multiverse and was still alive and one aspect of oblivion then its a stalemate since Mxy was casually going to destroy the multiverse. Scale him of LT who for whatever reason survived and then flexed then Mxy loses. I feel like marvel just wants to create good stories at the expanse of its cosmology need I talk about protocelestials.

Who wins it varies

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RampageTheFirst

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#150  Edited By RampageTheFirst

@underfire47: So you're saying TOBA comes from beyond our Universe, like the Universe we live in?