Thunder Fire God Liu Kang & Aftermath Crown God Shang Tsung vs. Evil Ryu and Oni Akuma

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#1  Edited By arctika

Sometimes I see MK vs SF topics on here, not too often but felt this would be an awesome match up.

All 4 characters at their best and most OP.

Thunder Fire God LK and Aftermath God tier Crown Shang Tsung vs. Evil Ryu and Oni Demon Akuma.

But who'd win in a death match?

There will be 2 battles. First the team battle, then the second will be a free for all battle.

Rules:

First Battle:

-Feats from everyone are valid

-CANON feats only, in other words nothing counts if it's not canon. This goes for everyone.

-As shown with both Shang and Akuma, one can't just instant soul steal or raging demon unless opponent is somewhat beaten/weakened first.

-All abilities, feats seen in story mode and endings for both can be used here.

-Fight to the death

-Fight takes place at the beginning of time

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vs

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_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Second Battle:

-All Feats apply

-Free For All Battle, Every Man for himself

-Fight to the Death!

-Whoever wins, controls space and time for the future of their universe!

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Who wins and why?

Discuss

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@cosmic_reign yep 😁

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From what I’ve seen Akuma could potentially solo

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Ok, here comes weird scaling: as shown in MK11, everything that has ever happened in MK is canon because everything happened in one alternate timeline or another. Raiden (who exists outside of time to an extent) was involved in every MK event, his mind is simply wiped when Kronika resets everything.

All of this means that MK vs DC is canon. In MK vs DC, it is shown that Raiden = Superman. MK vs DC Superman is Injustice Superman as revealed through dialog between Sub-Zero, Raiden, Superman, Batman, The Flash, & Darkseid.

Back to MK11, Raiden is shown to be below Cetrion & her mother (Kronika). But Liu Kang, after combining his power with Raiden & Evil Liu Kang, manages to defeat both Cetrion & Kronika. This shows that Fire God Liu is noticeably more powerful than Raiden. Which means (don't laugh) FG Liu > IJ Superman.

Now while I haven't played Aftermath yet, I assume Liu & Shang have a back and forth fight? If so, that is 2 separate IJ Superman+ characters vs. A character weaker than a pumped up Asura & a character equal to a pumped up Asura (He was obviously not at full power fighting either of them).

Basically that wall of text was meant to get to this point: how far above IJ Superman does one have to be to split the moon? Personally, I think, not that far above him (if you take super moves seriously).

So in my opinion -

Round 1: Team MK with Ryu as Team 2's weak link

Round 2: Either Oni or Liu (because I assume Liu beats Shang in Aftermath)

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Yeah definitely don't see Akuma soloing here lol. Oh yeah almost forgot @OniLordAsmodeus

Yeah I see would say, @beta_stage yeah Kronika and Raiden confirmed that pretty much all timelines are canon in MK during MK 11. But yeah I'm pretty sure Liu's ending in AM is the canon one, though the feats for Shang during aftermath would also be canon up to that point. With the crown his power is pretty insane taking out let's just say characters WAY more powerful...with the crown, personally I thought it was a bit much and pis but I see why they did that to face off against God mode LK. But yeah I agree that LK is more powerful than himself and Raiden alone, since he has all of Raiden's power on top of his own so he's the Thunder Fire God who's also the keeper of time. Also just want to add that with Akuma, him fighting Asura isn't canon since he's a guest like Robocop, Terminator, etc in MK 11.

Yeah, at first people thought MK vs DC wasn't canon but they say things that would imply it was, Raiden depending on the writing can be OP as hell or a jobber at times. During that arch Raiden and Supes were the only two left to take out Dark Kahn before setting their realities back to normal.

I won't ruin it for you but yeah if you haven't played Aftermath it's two hours story, you can watch it on youtube. A lot of crazy stuff happens.

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@arctika said:

Yeah definitely don't see Akuma soloing here lol. Oh yeah almost forgot @OniLordAsmodeus

Yeah I see would say, @beta_stage yeah Kronika and Raiden confirmed that pretty much all timelines are canon in MK during MK 11. But yeah I'm pretty sure Liu's ending in AM is the canon one, though the feats for Shang during aftermath would also be canon up to that point. With the crown his power is pretty insane taking out let's just say characters WAY more powerful...with the crown, personally I thought it was a bit much and pis but I see why they did that to face off against God mode LK. But yeah I agree that LK is more powerful than himself and Raiden alone, since he has all of Raiden's power on top of his own so he's the Thunder Fire God who's also the keeper of time. Also just want to add that with Akuma, him fighting Asura isn't canon since he's a guest like Robocop, Terminator, etc in MK 11.

Yeah, at first people thought MK vs DC wasn't canon but they say things that would imply it was, Raiden depending on the writing can be OP as hell or a jobber at times. During that arch Raiden and Supes were the only two left to take out Dark Kahn before setting their realities back to normal.

I won't ruin it for you but yeah if you haven't played Aftermath it's two hours story, you can watch it on youtube. A lot of crazy stuff happens.

Ah, if we are going strictly off of SF canon for Oni/Ryu, then Liu solos. The most impressive thing Oni has ever done is tank a volcano eruption. While impressive in its own right, it is not that impressive when Liu scales off of IJ Superman & Raiden (who killed all of the dinosaurs as a byproduct of his battle with Shinnok).

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@arctika said:

Yeah definitely don't see Akuma soloing here lol. Oh yeah almost forgot @OniLordAsmodeus

you should tag me.

Yeah I see would say, @beta_stage yeah Kronika and Raiden confirmed that pretty much all timelines are canon in MK during MK 11. But yeah I'm pretty sure Liu's ending in AM is the canon one, though the feats for Shang during aftermath would also be canon up to that point. With the crown his power is pretty insane taking out let's just say characters WAY more powerful...with the crown, personally I thought it was a bit much and pis but I see why they did that to face off against God mode LK.

even if all the timelines are canon the power lvls aren’t consistent across the board.
anyway I honestly don’t see anything to impressive. Akuma sinked a island in base form. base akuma vs fire god kang already seems like a better match up.


But yeah I agree that LK is more powerful than himself and Raiden alone, since he has all of Raiden's power on top of his own so he's the Thunder Fire God who's also the keeper of time. Also just want to add that with Akuma, him fighting Asura isn't canon since he's a guest like Robocop, Terminator, etc in MK 11.

raiden would get bodied as well but yeah I was not using the ashes wraith versions.

Yeah, at first people thought MK vs DC wasn't canon but they say things that would imply it was, Raiden depending on the writing can be OP as hell or a jobber at times. During that arch Raiden and Supes were the only two left to take out Dark Kahn before setting their realities back to normal.

raiden is no where close to Superman lvl so even if it was “canon” it still be inconsistent.

I won't ruin it for you but yeah if you haven't played Aftermath it's two hours story, you can watch it on youtube. A lot of crazy stuff happens.

Yeah I know i played it nothing changed for me

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#9  Edited By Dmnb2wavy

@beta_stage:

is this comment actually serious?

Ah, if we are going strictly off of SF canon for Oni/Ryu, then Liu solos. The most impressive thing Oni has ever done is tank a volcano eruption. While impressive in its own right, it is not that impressive when Liu scales off of IJ Superman & Raiden (who killed all of the dinosaurs as a byproduct of his battle with Shinnok).

yeah no. Just no. That version of raiden is clearly not the same version in mk 11 As he is way weaker. going by actual feats Akuma in base split large masses of rock and split a island . He is the only one that seems capable of soloing.

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Ok, here comes weird scaling: as shown in MK11, everything that has ever happened in MK is canon because everything happened in one alternate timeline or another. Raiden (who exists outside of time to an extent) was involved in every MK event, his mind is simply wiped when Kronika resets everything.

heres the thing raiden across all timelines does not keep a consistent power scale so even if he is the “same” character his power lvl still changes.

All of this means that MK vs DC is canon. In MK vs DC, it is shown that Raiden = Superman. MK vs DC Superman is Injustice Superman as revealed through dialog between Sub-Zero, Raiden, Superman, Batman, The Flash, & Darkseid.

then it’s just inconsistent. Injustice Superman can move fast enough to see everything frozen. he would stomp mk 11 raiden.

Back to MK11, Raiden is shown to be below Cetrion & her mother (Kronika). But Liu Kang, after combining his power with Raiden & Evil Liu Kang, manages to defeat both Cetrion & Kronika. This shows that Fire God Liu is noticeably more powerful than Raiden. Which means (don't laugh) FG Liu > IJ Superman.

ok yeah I’m laughing injustice Superman shook a planet, only classic raiden has that lvl of power Which is not present in the current canon.

ij >> god kang

Now while I haven't played Aftermath yet, I assume Liu & Shang have a back and forth fight? If so, that is 2 separate IJ Superman+ characters vs. A character weaker than a pumped up Asura & a character equal to a pumped up Asura (He was obviously not at full power fighting either of them).

Basically that wall of text was meant to get to this point: how far above IJ Superman does one have to be to split the moon? Personally, I think, not that far above him (if you take super moves seriously).

So in my opinion -

Round 1: Team MK with Ryu as Team 2's weak link

Round 2: Either Oni or Liu (because I assume Liu beats Shang in Aftermath)

Ard Akuma in base is a challenge to god kang so I’m giving it to him both rounds.

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#11  Edited By arctika

@beta_stage:

@beta_stage said:
@arctika said:

Yeah definitely don't see Akuma soloing here lol. Oh yeah almost forgot @OniLordAsmodeus

Yeah I see would say, @beta_stage yeah Kronika and Raiden confirmed that pretty much all timelines are canon in MK during MK 11. But yeah I'm pretty sure Liu's ending in AM is the canon one, though the feats for Shang during aftermath would also be canon up to that point. With the crown his power is pretty insane taking out let's just say characters WAY more powerful...with the crown, personally I thought it was a bit much and pis but I see why they did that to face off against God mode LK. But yeah I agree that LK is more powerful than himself and Raiden alone, since he has all of Raiden's power on top of his own so he's the Thunder Fire God who's also the keeper of time. Also just want to add that with Akuma, him fighting Asura isn't canon since he's a guest like Robocop, Terminator, etc in MK 11.

Yeah, at first people thought MK vs DC wasn't canon but they say things that would imply it was, Raiden depending on the writing can be OP as hell or a jobber at times. During that arch Raiden and Supes were the only two left to take out Dark Kahn before setting their realities back to normal.

I won't ruin it for you but yeah if you haven't played Aftermath it's two hours story, you can watch it on youtube. A lot of crazy stuff happens.

Ah, if we are going strictly off of SF canon for Oni/Ryu, then Liu solos. The most impressive thing Oni has ever done is tank a volcano eruption. While impressive in its own right, it is not that impressive when Liu scales off of IJ Superman & Raiden (who killed all of the dinosaurs as a byproduct of his battle with Shinnok).

Yeah, he did for sure. I agree. Raiden also as he admitted when unbound is insanely powerful, during MK 4's intro which is still canon even in the newer timelines as we saw in MK X and MK 11, killed billions nearly wiped out all entire civilizations fighting Shinnok, so obviously a lot of that came from his power fighting and defeating shinnok eons ago long before the events we see in the games.

Yeah, I thought I put that in the OP but if I didn't I'll update but definitely going by canon. I know sometimes there's different feats for non canon, canon, alternate forms of media etc but yeah canon feats only for all 4 here.

@dmnb2wavy said:
@arctika said:

.

even if all the timelines are canon the power lvls aren’t consistent across the board.
anyway I honestly don’t see anything to impressive. Akuma sinked a island in base form. base akuma vs fire god kang already seems like a better match up.

raiden would get bodied as well but yeah I was not using the ashes wraith versions.

raiden is no where close to Superman lvl so even if it was “canon” it still be inconsistent.

Yeah I know i played it nothing changed for me

I'd have to disagree, nothing Akuma as I said already has done in the canon compares to what higher end MK characters have done and I would compare Superman(not Injustice btw, but MK vs DC Superman who clearly wasn't evil) to Raiden, as again they were the last two standing vs Dark Kahn(Darkseid and Shao Kahn merged) pretty impressive and yet they still struggled but won together. Raiden is like Superman a lot, he holds back most of the time but when he goes all out he's very dangerous and easily a worldwide and beyond threat. Especially if he's dark, has little to no morals and has the Amulet and/or a Kamidogu amping him tenfold.

Lighter Raiden is a different story, he holds back, doesn't let his anger corrupt him or Shinnok's Amulet. He's still a powerhouse I mean he has a boatload of powers he pulls out of his hat when needed, he's changed time, can BFR, turn others into Gods, split his essense, heal, hurt people, has foresight, list goes on.

I don't think Raiden would get bodied if he goes all out actually, he's a worldwide threat and with the amulet can easily erase people with it. But thats two versions of Raiden, light Raiden would never do that but Dark I don't give af Raiden would not even Akuma has an answer to the amulet, he can also just trap people in it.

Raiden is easily Superman level in some ways, not strength but he has other impressive feats easily on par if not better than Supes such as being a worldwide threat and wiping out millions when full power unbound without morals and rules to abide by, changing time etc things Superman can't do. He's also got better feats in the comics like flying an airplane Superman style in the MK 1 comic and tanking bullets, getting impaled without injury.

The only reason Shang gave everyone trouble in Aftermath which btw he would give Ryu, Akuma and anyone from Capcom too mind you because he had the crown of infinite souls amping him to beyond Godlike power. He defeated Raiden and Fujin, killed Shao Kahn, Sindel(sindel who beat up an Elder God), and killed Kronika a freaking Titan cosmic level character. Only Thunder God Time keeper Liu Kang beat Shang.

Honestly, given the fact that Ryu gives Akuma trouble a lot of the time. God LK would murderstomp Akuma, only Oni let's be honest would give him a challenge but I still see LK winning given his insane feats. Oni Akuma has done literally nothing in the canon to warrant him soloing everyone else here.

LK however has

-Oneshot a freaking army of undead demons in the thousands with a dive bomb instantly obliterating them to ash.

-Oneshotting and electricuting more demons at least hundreds with lightning

-Has Raiden's power on top of his own including his knowledge

-Punched through an insanely thick magic steel door the size of a boarder wall to Kronika's keep melting it

-Punched and melted through another steel metal door protecting Kronika

-Easily defeating amped undead Jade, Kitana and KL

-Easily went toe to toe and defeated a freaking Elder God in Cetrion

-Casually punched and shattered asteroids being summoned and thrown by Kronika at him

-Easily defeated and killed Kronika a Titan who is cosmic level being above God and Elder God level, then killing her.

-Currently the Keeper of Time and Protector of Earthrealm, God or Thunder and Fire

So while I think it would be a cool battle for a while I don't see any version of Akuma beating this version of LK. Also, I would say God mode LK is on par with Injustice Superman. Sure, Supes has speed feats, strength etc but LK makes up for all that with magic which clearly hurts Superman, and not just a little magic as we saw a Scorpion kick hurting Superman's chest in MK vs DC but magic on a Godly, massive level...on top of being the God of Thunder and Fire.

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@arctika said:

@beta_stage:

@beta_stage said:
@arctika said:

Yeah definitely don't see Akuma soloing here lol. Oh yeah almost forgot @OniLordAsmodeus

Yeah I see would say, @beta_stage yeah Kronika and Raiden confirmed that pretty much all timelines are canon in MK during MK 11. But yeah I'm pretty sure Liu's ending in AM is the canon one, though the feats for Shang during aftermath would also be canon up to that point. With the crown his power is pretty insane taking out let's just say characters WAY more powerful...with the crown, personally I thought it was a bit much and pis but I see why they did that to face off against God mode LK. But yeah I agree that LK is more powerful than himself and Raiden alone, since he has all of Raiden's power on top of his own so he's the Thunder Fire God who's also the keeper of time. Also just want to add that with Akuma, him fighting Asura isn't canon since he's a guest like Robocop, Terminator, etc in MK 11.

Yeah, at first people thought MK vs DC wasn't canon but they say things that would imply it was, Raiden depending on the writing can be OP as hell or a jobber at times. During that arch Raiden and Supes were the only two left to take out Dark Kahn before setting their realities back to normal.

I won't ruin it for you but yeah if you haven't played Aftermath it's two hours story, you can watch it on youtube. A lot of crazy stuff happens.

Ah, if we are going strictly off of SF canon for Oni/Ryu, then Liu solos. The most impressive thing Oni has ever done is tank a volcano eruption. While impressive in its own right, it is not that impressive when Liu scales off of IJ Superman & Raiden (who killed all of the dinosaurs as a byproduct of his battle with Shinnok).

Yeah, he did for sure. I agree. Raiden also as he admitted when unbound is insanely powerful, during MK 4's intro which is still canon even in the newer timelines as we saw in MK X and MK 11, killed billions nearly wiped out all entire civilizations fighting Shinnok, so obviously a lot of that came from his power fighting and defeating shinnok eons ago long before the events we see in the games.

Yeah, I thought I put that in the OP but if I didn't I'll update but definitely going by canon. I know sometimes there's different feats for non canon, canon, alternate forms of media etc but yeah canon feats only for all 4 here.

@dmnb2wavy said:
@arctika said:

.

even if all the timelines are canon the power lvls aren’t consistent across the board.
anyway I honestly don’t see anything to impressive. Akuma sinked a island in base form. base akuma vs fire god kang already seems like a better match up.

raiden would get bodied as well but yeah I was not using the ashes wraith versions.

raiden is no where close to Superman lvl so even if it was “canon” it still be inconsistent.

Yeah I know i played it nothing changed for me

I'd have to disagree, nothing Akuma as I said already has done in the canon compares to what higher end MK characters have done

in old canon. current canon is way weaker.

and I would compare Superman(not Injustice btw, but MK vs DC Superman who clearly wasn't evil) to Raiden, as again they were the last two standing vs Dark Kahn(Darkseid and Shao Kahn merged) pretty impressive and yet they still struggled but won together.

that Superman is featless Then, I don’t even know why it is impressive.


Raiden is like Superman a lot, he holds back most of the time but when he goes all out he's very dangerous and easily a worldwide and beyond threat. Especially if he's dark, has little to no morals and has the Amulet and/or a Kamidogu amping him tenfold.

this is based off again old canon. New canon scorpion somehow beat him when he got angry.

new canon raiden is weak.

Lighter Raiden is a different story, he holds back, doesn't let his anger corrupt him or Shinnok's Amulet. He's still a powerhouse I mean he has a boatload of powers he pulls out of his hat when needed,

he almost got bodied by quan chi and revenants. So much for being a power house.

he's changed time,

And he can’t do it anymore.

can BFR,

never does it in a fight or rarely uses it

turn others into Gods,

sure

split his essense, heal, hurt people, has foresight, list goes on.

hurt People? Why is that even listed.

I don't think Raiden would get bodied if he goes all out actually, he's a worldwide threat and with the amulet can easily erase people with it.

again old canon I will keep repeating that but old canon raiden is way more powerful than current canon.

raiden losses to Akuma.

But thats two versions of Raiden, light Raiden would never do that but Dark I don't give af Raiden would not even Akuma has an answer to the amulet, he can also just trap people in it.

raiden dies before he gets the chance to do it.

Raiden is easily Superman level in some ways, not strength but he has other impressive feats easily on par if not better than Supes such as being a worldwide threat

old canon

and wiping out millions when full power unbound without morals and rules to abide by,

old canon.

changing time etc things Superman can't do. He's also got better feats in the comics like flying an airplane Superman style in the MK 1 comic and tanking bullets, getting impaled without injury.

dcvsmk superman is weak ass hell. Injustice Superman would beat raiden tho.

The only reason Shang gave everyone trouble in Aftermath which btw he would give Ryu, Akuma and anyone from Capcom too mind you because he had the crown of infinite souls amping him to beyond Godlike power.

nope he lost to kang of all people. The same kang who got semi bodied by revenants.

asura and akuma bodies Shang with the crown.



He defeated Raiden and Fujin, killed Shao Kahn, Sindel(sindel who beat up an Elder God),

context please. sindell had help from fujin, Shang himself and nightwolf all plenty powerful in their own rights.

and killed Kronika a freaking Titan cosmic level character.

she Has some cool hax but power wise nah she isn’t cosmic lvl.

God Time keeper Liu Kang beat Shang.

Honestly, given the fact that Ryu gives Akuma trouble a lot of the time. God LK would murderstomp Akuma, only Oni let's be honest would give him a challenge

is this a joke? Again akuma split a island in base. In new canon no mk character has done anything close to that. ryu would scale to Akuma so he can still give kang a challenge as well.

but I still see LK winning given his insane feats. Oni Akuma has done literally nothing in the canon to warrant him soloing everyone else here.

nope

LK however has

-Oneshot a freaking army of undead demons in the thousands with a dive bomb instantly obliterating them to ash.

really?

-Oneshotting and electricuting more demons at least hundreds with lightning

really?

-Has Raiden's power on top of his own including his knowledge

new canon not impressive

-Punched through an insanely thick magic steel door the size of a boarder wall to Kronika's keep melting it

seriously?

-Punched and melted through another steel metal door protecting Kronika

how weak do you think akuma is if your listing these type of feats.

-Easily defeating amped undead Jade, Kitana and KL

easily? Lmao mans got bodied but came back in the end.

-Easily went toe to toe and defeated a freaking Elder God in Cetrion

why do you keep saying easily? The fact aftermath even happened means it was a even fight between kronica and kang.

-Casually punched and shattered asteroids being summoned and thrown by Kronika at him

when the hell did that happen? Citations

-Easily defeated and killed Kronika a Titan who is cosmic level being above God and Elder God level, then killing her.

kronika is weak as hell.

-Currently the Keeper of Time and Protector of Earthrealm, God or Thunder and Fire

nice titles.

So while I think it would be a cool battle for a while I don't see any version of Akuma beating this version of LK.

weird cause I do. Asura wrath stomps harder this.


Also, I would say God mode LK is on par with Injustice Superman.

he isn’t at all.

Sure, Supes has speed feats, strength etc but LK makes up for all that with magic which clearly hurts Superman, and not just a little magic as we saw a Scorpion kick hurting Superman's chest in MK vs DC but magic on a Godly, massive level...on top of being the God of Thunder and Fire.

Injustice super man speed bliztes or one shots

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@beta_stage:

is this comment actually serious?

Ah, if we are going strictly off of SF canon for Oni/Ryu, then Liu solos. The most impressive thing Oni has ever done is tank a volcano eruption. While impressive in its own right, it is not that impressive when Liu scales off of IJ Superman & Raiden (who killed all of the dinosaurs as a byproduct of his battle with Shinnok).

yeah no. Just no. That version of raiden is clearly not the same version in mk 11 As he is way weaker. going by actual feats Akuma in base split large masses of rock and split a island . He is the only one that seems capable of soloing.

Well, it is. No matter what, that is the one piece of Raiden's history that stays constant. Kronika does not mess with the timeline until the Mortal Kombat era begins. The reason why he is so weak is because he is forced (presumably by his bosses, The Elder Gods) to utilize a "mortal" body that carries a fraction of his power when dealing with mortals or the MK tournament. This is rather consistent with him being at "full power" towards the end of MK vs DC when he stalemates Superman when they are both powered by Kombat Rage (meaning they are both bloodlusted). Plus, in the original timeline, Shao Khan (utilizing his own power) effortlessly absorbs the souls of EVERY person on Earth minus the Kombatants whom Raiden protects. Implying that there is parity between the two.

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#14  Edited By arctika

Dmnbtwavy

He's actually more powerful and shown more insane powers in the new canon than old.

He's not featless, he still helped Raiden beat Dark Kahn. How is that featless? And he's still a Superman...

No based off the new canon, however with Raiden he was darker in every timeline just for different reasons...Scorpion didn't beat Raiden, Raiden had already beat Scorpion in Hell aka netherrealm back in MK 9 and where Raiden is weaker as stated in MK 11 yet he still had enough power to kill thousands of demons and get everyone there and back to Earthrealm. Raiden didn't get beat he was neutralized and possessed by the Kamidogu making him nuts, he wasn't going all out either he was just not in his right state of mind. He shocked Scorpion and nearly killed Takeda until Scorpion got the dagger away from him. Also, Havik was controlling everyone possessed by the blood code Kamidogu dagger in the MK X comics...so while it was their powers, it was not them making those choices as they were being controlled by Havik.

No he's not, new canon Raiden is very powerful actually.

Actually no. Dude, Raiden beat them but he didn't want to fight them because they were his friends...when he got serious he oneshotted them all via an electrical current in the ground. Pretty obvious he didn't want to fight them...

He can if he has his powers, only reason he can't is because he gave his power to LK so LK can easily do it but doesn't have to to since he is the time keeper currently.

Actually, yes he has in the comics and did do it to Shinnok in MK X the second time he beat him by trapping him in his own amulet...also just because he doesn't do it often don't mean he can't when he clealry has.

Umm yeah, he does this to Liu Kang in MK 11....you may want to play the game or watch the story before posting. End of MK 11, Raiden literally turns LK into a God of Fire and Thunder by transferring his power and merging into him.

Because you seem to think Raiden is "weak" and can't hurt anyone for whatever reason.

Again, no current canon not old canon. MK X ending and MK 11 is not the old canon but continued from when Raiden reset time the first time back in MK 9, end of Armageddon. You dont know what you're talking about. You will keep being wrong then because those feats are NOT from the old canon, from the new. Old canon Raiden never changed time until the point of Armageddon. Then we learned Kronika has been orchestrating everything from the start until she formed her "perfect" timeline.

Wrong. No Raiden murderstomps and erases Akuma. Akuma struggles against Ryu, Raiden among others weaker than him would destroy Ryu. Raiden erases Akuma from existence, just stop.

No, Raiden doesn't die and can't die anyway. He's immortal, he's already killed himself in Deception only to come back shortly afterwards. Akuma can and would die though.

No, new canon stop repeating yourself because you have no argument and are wrong.

No, again that still happened as confirmed in MK X. You clearly don't know much about MK lore, that happened centuries before the point of time being reset at the MK 1 tournament period which happened literally hundreds of years after the Raiden wiping out millions feat. So again, you're wrong.

How is MK DC Supes weak? He was effected by the magic merge, but not useless or anything. Also, nah Raiden if going all out could take on Injustice supes, especially if he has the amulet and/or a kamidogu. Plus, Raiden is all about Magic, Magic hurts Superman since you're not aware.

He lost to Godmode Liu Kang, and Shang lost to LK when both were normal levels in Mortal Kombat. LK is the best martial artist in MK, LK never got bodied by revenants he beat them what are you talking about? lol

No, both would die against Shang Tsung God mode. Asura has pathetic feats and not canon in SF, and Akuma dies.

Kronika herself confirmed and told Cetrion after Cetrion said "she's but another mortal"

Kronika"and one of the FEW who can harm you

Shang knew Sindel's powers could hurt/defeat Cetrion, which she did. Yes, Sindel had some help from Fujin and Shang, but Sindel's scream was more or less the knockout blow. Shang just finished her by sending her into the ground with his magic. When Cetrion returned to Kronika, she was all beat up.

Yes she is actually, the writers confirmed it in interviews months ago that kronika is a titan above Elder God level and a Cosmic being overseeing time, there are other Titans as well but we don't know much about them yet. They literally hang out in the depths of space so yes cosmic beings.

Not a joke. Who cares about a small island? Liu Kang defeated and killed the freaking keeper of time cosmic being being a Titan in Kronika? LK also casually shattered huge ass asteroids being tossed at him during the fight with Kronika, punched through an insanely thick magic steel door and oneshot literally an army of thousands of undead demons....your point? I'm sure LK can shatter the earth if he wanted to, but usually and island doesn't attack people so no need. Well, sometimes in MK like anything else characters scale or jobber for plot. But Ryu has given Akuma a hard time in the canon, the same ryu who got his ass handed to him by Sagat a thug and had to sucker punch him to beat him. Umm current timeline MK LK and Raiden, among a few others have better feats than just punching a dumb island. Beating Kronika alone and having the power to reset time and being immune to time manipulation is already better than anything Akuma has done.

Yep

If you have ask "really?" clearly you have no watched the story of Aftermath or MK 11....so why are you even posting if you don't know MK lore, feats etc?

Again, yes really lol if you watched/played story in MK 11 it's pretty obvious.

Yes, same canon lol old or new in that case, Raiden is ageless as old as Earthrealm he's eons old as is Fujin, both confirmed this already in the series including MK 11...

Yes, again seriously do you want me to post videos for you?

Not saying Akuma is weak but you're lowballing and think LK is weak and clearly not aware of his higher end feats, which I've never seen Akuma do.

He never got bodied, they knocked him down because he wasn't focusing because again, they were his friends, his lover etc he didn't want to fight them but once he realized he did he bodied them. Also are you going to ignore the fact that he previously oneshot a freaking army? lmao...Akuma gets bodied by Ryu.

How was it even if LK beats Cetrion exactly? lol even Cetrion was impressed and surprised when she was going all out saying "You match me step for step" then LK knocks her down, he tries to talk sense into her she backs Kronika still, he beats her. It's canon, deal with it.

Again, if you played the game or watched the entire story you'd see this. During his fight vs Kronika the stages change due to the time being reversed, reset as this happens you see the hourglass go through different phases dating back to the stone age, time began etc during cinamatics Kronika throws a few asteroids at him and LK literally punches and kicks them shattering them.

No she's not weak as hell, she controlled the realms for eons, was the keeper of time, Shinnok's and Cetrion's mother(two powerful Elder Gods) and a Titan cosmic being. Weak as hell? Hardly. Akuma is weak as hell compared to her power.

That's not a title, it's fact. He's currently the timekeeper and thanks to Raiden, now the God of Thunder and Fire. Again he states this himself in Aftermath at the end as well as Kronika confirming this too.

No he doesn't, Asura beat a weakass God of his universe but died anyway....LK didn't die when he killed Kronika, a Godly, Cosmic Titan being and keeper of time for eons controlling everything until that point. Also, stop talking about Asura, I don't care about him Asura is NOT Akuma. And Akuma sure as hell didn't do anything compared to LK's feats.

He is actually.

Injustice Supes is still weak to magic, he's never faced a God of multiple elements and strong magic before on LK's level currently, God LK can take him for sure especially when Scorpion's magic kick already hurt a Superman from another Universe....plus, let's not ignore the fact that Batman gives Superman trouble in a kryptonite suit, all LK has to do is get some kryptonite fuse it with his magic and Supes will be in big trouble, even though normal magic still hurts him. He's not immune to magic.

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@dmnb2wavy said:

@beta_stage:

is this comment actually serious?

Ah, if we are going strictly off of SF canon for Oni/Ryu, then Liu solos. The most impressive thing Oni has ever done is tank a volcano eruption. While impressive in its own right, it is not that impressive when Liu scales off of IJ Superman & Raiden (who killed all of the dinosaurs as a byproduct of his battle with Shinnok).

yeah no. Just no. That version of raiden is clearly not the same version in mk 11 As he is way weaker. going by actual feats Akuma in base split large masses of rock and split a island . He is the only one that seems capable of soloing.

Well, it is. No matter what, that is the one piece of Raiden's history that stays constant. Kronika does not mess with the timeline until the Mortal Kombat era begins. The reason why he is so weak is because he is forced (presumably by his bosses, The Elder Gods) to utilize a "mortal" body that carries a fraction of his power when dealing with mortals or the MK tournament. This is rather consistent with him being at "full power" towards the end of MK vs DC when he stalemates Superman when they are both powered by Kombat Rage (meaning they are both bloodlusted). Plus, in the original timeline, Shao Khan (utilizing his own power) effortlessly absorbs the souls of EVERY person on Earth minus the Kombatants whom Raiden protects. Implying that there is parity between the two.

Exactly, I don't know why this dude thinks the Raiden feats and LK ones are from "old canon" lol when clearly they're not and from the current timeline. Yep, what I was telling him that the time restarting wasn't until the MK 1 tournament, everything up to that point is the same with the great Kung Lao, Raiden's past battle with Shinnok etc, etc when there were no rules to follow the who Bi-Han fighting Fujin years before the tournament etc, etc Yeah, Shao Kahn was definitely more powerful in the old timeline compared to the new one. Though I'm glad they confirmed in AM that he wasn't dead, but just defeated by Kitana. I know a lot of fans of Kahn were outraged how a fanswipe killed him lol but apparently she just took his eyes out temporarily. Yep MK 3, Shao Kahn stole billions of souls from outworld via a portal.

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@dmnb2wavy said:

@beta_stage:

is this comment actually serious?

Ah, if we are going strictly off of SF canon for Oni/Ryu, then Liu solos. The most impressive thing Oni has ever done is tank a volcano eruption. While impressive in its own right, it is not that impressive when Liu scales off of IJ Superman & Raiden (who killed all of the dinosaurs as a byproduct of his battle with Shinnok).

yeah no. Just no. That version of raiden is clearly not the same version in mk 11 As he is way weaker. going by actual feats Akuma in base split large masses of rock and split a island . He is the only one that seems capable of soloing.

Well, it is. No matter what, that is the one piece of Raiden's history that stays constant. Kronika does not mess with the timeline until the Mortal Kombat era begins.

does not matter. Feat wise he is way weaker.

The reason why he is so weak is because he is forced (presumably by his bosses, The Elder Gods) to utilize a "mortal" body that carries a fraction of his power when dealing with mortals or the MK tournament.

why? Why would he be forced to keep his mortal form when the elder gods know of kronikas messing with the tournament? The only reason he has a mortal form is if he enters the tournament otherwise If something invades he can fight it.

that pretty much gets reinforced in god kang as raiden says he gave up his god powers to him. if he was in his mortal state I’m sure he can’t do that.


This is rather consistent with him being at "full power" towards the end of MK vs DC when he stalemates Superman when they are both powered by Kombat Rage (meaning they are both bloodlusted). Plus, in the original timeline

a featless Superman.

, Shao Khan (utilizing his own power) effortlessly absorbs the souls of EVERY person on Earth minus the Kombatants whom Raiden protects. Implying that there is parity between the two.

Old canon. In the new canon Kahn isn’t that powerful.

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#17  Edited By Dmnb2wavy

@arctika said:
@beta_stage said:
@dmnb2wavy said:

@beta_stage:

is this comment actually serious?

Ah, if we are going strictly off of SF canon for Oni/Ryu, then Liu solos. The most impressive thing Oni has ever done is tank a volcano eruption. While impressive in its own right, it is not that impressive when Liu scales off of IJ Superman & Raiden (who killed all of the dinosaurs as a byproduct of his battle with Shinnok).

yeah no. Just no. That version of raiden is clearly not the same version in mk 11 As he is way weaker. going by actual feats Akuma in base split large masses of rock and split a island . He is the only one that seems capable of soloing.

Well, it is. No matter what, that is the one piece of Raiden's history that stays constant. Kronika does not mess with the timeline until the Mortal Kombat era begins. The reason why he is so weak is because he is forced (presumably by his bosses, The Elder Gods) to utilize a "mortal" body that carries a fraction of his power when dealing with mortals or the MK tournament. This is rather consistent with him being at "full power" towards the end of MK vs DC when he stalemates Superman when they are both powered by Kombat Rage (meaning they are both bloodlusted). Plus, in the original timeline, Shao Khan (utilizing his own power) effortlessly absorbs the souls of EVERY person on Earth minus the Kombatants whom Raiden protects. Implying that there is parity between the two.

Exactly, I don't know why this dude thinks the Raiden feats and LK ones are from "old canon" lol when clearly they're not and from the current timeline.

because it’s inconsistent that’s my point. raiden in new canon does nothing that the old raiden of canon can do.

pretty much all of the new canon stuff changes around everyones power lvls And even retconed lore.

Yep, what I was telling him that the time restarting wasn't until the MK 1 tournament, everything up to that point is the same with the great Kung Lao, Raiden's past battle with Shinnok etc, etc when there were no rules to follow the who Bi-Han fighting Fujin years before the tournament etc, etc Yeah, Shao Kahn was definitely more powerful in the old timeline compared to the new one.

this is my point characters are weaker and stronger in new canon.

bi Han beating fujin makes no sense in current canon.


Though I'm glad they confirmed in AM that he wasn't dead, but just defeated by Kitana. I know a lot of fans of Kahn were outraged how a fanswipe killed him lol but apparently she just took his eyes out temporarily. Yep MK 3, Shao Kahn stole billions of souls from outworld via a portal.

old canon

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arctika

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#18  Edited By arctika

@dmnb2wavy said:
@arctika said:
@beta_stage said:
@dmnb2wavy said:

@beta_stage:

is this comment actually serious?

Ah, if we are going strictly off of SF canon for Oni/Ryu, then Liu solos. The most impressive thing Oni has ever done is tank a volcano eruption. While impressive in its own right, it is not that impressive when Liu scales off of IJ Superman & Raiden (who killed all of the dinosaurs as a byproduct of his battle with Shinnok).

yeah no. Just no. That version of raiden is clearly not the same version in mk 11 As he is way weaker. going by actual feats Akuma in base split large masses of rock and split a island . He is the only one that seems capable of soloing.

Well, it is. No matter what, that is the one piece of Raiden's history that stays constant. Kronika does not mess with the timeline until the Mortal Kombat era begins. The reason why he is so weak is because he is forced (presumably by his bosses, The Elder Gods) to utilize a "mortal" body that carries a fraction of his power when dealing with mortals or the MK tournament. This is rather consistent with him being at "full power" towards the end of MK vs DC when he stalemates Superman when they are both powered by Kombat Rage (meaning they are both bloodlusted). Plus, in the original timeline, Shao Khan (utilizing his own power) effortlessly absorbs the souls of EVERY person on Earth minus the Kombatants whom Raiden protects. Implying that there is parity between the two.

Exactly, I don't know why this dude thinks the Raiden feats and LK ones are from "old canon" lol when clearly they're not and from the current timeline.

because it’s inconsistent that’s my point. raiden in new canon does nothing that the old raiden of canon can do.

pretty much all of the new canon stuff changes around everyones power lvls And even retconed lore.

Yep, what I was telling him that the time restarting wasn't until the MK 1 tournament, everything up to that point is the same with the great Kung Lao, Raiden's past battle with Shinnok etc, etc when there were no rules to follow the who Bi-Han fighting Fujin years before the tournament etc, etc Yeah, Shao Kahn was definitely more powerful in the old timeline compared to the new one.

this is my point characters are weaker and stronger in new canon.

bi Han beating fujin makes no sense in current canon.

Though I'm glad they confirmed in AM that he wasn't dead, but just defeated by Kitana. I know a lot of fans of Kahn were outraged how a fanswipe killed him lol but apparently she just took his eyes out temporarily. Yep MK 3, Shao Kahn stole billions of souls from outworld via a portal.

old canon

It's not inconsistent, it's two different timelines. Raiden's always been powerful when not bound to rules regardless of timeline, the timeline doesn' reboot effecting everyone until the first MK tournament through MK 11 ending. Prior to that everything is untouched from Raiden's fight with Shinnok to MK Mythologies regarding Bi-Han and Fujin which is even referenced in Aftermath.

Not true, Raiden does a lot more in the new canon. However, given his powers that's not to say he's not capable of doing what he did in the newer timeline in the original, he just had no need for it such as turning LK into a God for example.

Nothing got retconned though as MK 11 confirmed, all timelines mattered by Kronika and Raiden themselves. The only things retconned were soft at best, still happened albeit in a slightly different way like MK 9's Shao Kahn invasion of Earthrealm for example, same story of original timeline MK 3 but some elements changed or happened a little differently.

It depends, some characters are stronger in the old and others weaker depending. Most are more fleshed out, developed between MK 9-MK 11 including the tie in comics of MK X which covered gaps.

Also, Bi-Han never beat Fujin, Fujin confirmed in Aftermath he ran away from him, after Fujin beat him again....for gameplay, we see Fujin "blow up" yet that's just there for the player, if you played the game you have to run away or hold onto an edge during Fujin's giant tornado blast or you die.So Sub(Bi Han) technically never "beat Fujin" he did run away.

Also, no Raiden feat wise is stronger if anything in terms of his human form from MK 9-MK 11, but he's also shown great feats in the older timeline He has insane feats in both.

Because he has to abide by the Rules of the Elder Gods, this has been the case since MK 1 original timeline centuries ago Raiden being Earthrealm's protector, asked the Elder Gods for a chance for Earth to defend itself from other worldly take overs like Shao Kahn does with Outworld, so they agreed they have to defeat Earthrealm in 10 tournaments every 100 years, if they win all 10 they can take over Earthrealm, if not they can't. Earth lost the first 9 but won the 10th thus keeping Earthrealm safe it's why Shao Kahn tried to cheat and invade but the Elder Gods killed him for breaking the rules. The tradeoff is Raiden can't interfere unless directly challenged being a powerhouse. That would be why.

To answer your other question, that's the thing the Elder Gods even have no clue that Kronika's grand design is manipulating timelines, they can mess with time to a point much like Raiden, but she is the time keeper/oversees it and molds it if you will. And besides if any of them knew it was Cetrion and she abides her mother's will. Shinnok had his own schemes that Kronika approved of until Raiden decapitated him and went on his own reign. That disturbed Kronika's vision.

He's not featless, he's freaking Superman from that Earth. By your logic you'd think Ryu would beat that Superman then lol.

I think you're misunderstanding us. For one I never said it wasn't the older timeline/canon. Shao Kahn was immensely more powerful in the older timeline, still powerful but not as much. He needed Quan Chi's help in the second timeline which MK 9 shows. In this case it was from the older timeline, but not everything is from the old canon. MK every timeline's feats, stories are canon as Kronika confirmed.

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@beta_stage: I wouldn't bring Superman into this. In the MK canon, Injustice was only a dream that only Sub and Raiden shared...somewhat, but regardless, it didn't happen and in any MK timeline.

@arctika Talking pure canon, the MK team should win this, and pretty easily. Even if you say that Akuma is physically stronger than either character on the MK team (@dmnb2wavy this is for you) either Shang or Liu have more hax than him, and both are WAY faster.

  • Both Liu and Shang can teleport
  • Both Liu and Shang are casually lightning speed (and I would argue they were this fast pre Titan level power)
  • Both Liu and Shang can BFR (Shang actually did this to Geras in Aftermath)
  • Neither Shang or Liu have to exist in a physical body (Liu can become lightning or fire, and Shang can intangible and posses people, MK2

And on, and on...

There is honestly to much to get in to right now for me, but there is nothing that I've seen either Oni or Kage (Evil Ryu) do that would change my mind. This is a pretty clear stomp for the MK team in Round one.

And in round 2 I'd say this is a toss up for either Shang or Liu. Aftermath ended in a cliff hanger, so why wouldn't this.

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#20  Edited By Dmnb2wavy

@OniLordAsmodeus said:

@arctika Talking pure canon, the MK team should win this, and pretty easily. Even if you say that Akuma is physically stronger than either character on the MK team (@dmnb2wavy this is for you) either Shang or Liu have more hax than him, and both are WAY faster.

i no longer care about this whole canon and non canon thing but no I disagree with this.

  • Both Liu and Shang are casually lightning speed (and I would argue they were this fast pre Titan level power)

what evidence proves that before their power ups they can move at lightning speeds? And even after their power up I still disagree.

nightwolf had to run from bullets, rev. Kang has to sit behind boulders from bullets, the fact bullets still move to these characters prove they aren’t close to lightning at all.

As for the fight tho whatever is canon or non canon idc at this point so in their god forms they would win Just from hax and powers alone but not because of speed.

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#21  Edited By Dmnb2wavy

@arctika: Ard fine you win it’s all canon but let me say

He's not featless, he's freaking Superman from that Earth. By your logic you'd think Ryu would beat that Superman then lol

this quote makes no sense. if your talking about injustice Superman then call him injustice Superman. If he isn’t injustice Superman then It’s a featless Superman no matter what. You can’t just say oh it’s Superman so he is powerful the only feats he has would be scaling from raiden. If it was not for that scaling i would indeed say ryu would beat that Superman.

(side note) injustice and mkvsdc Superman can’t be the same characters.

lex luthor was good in injustice but evil in mkvsdc

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#22  Edited By arctika

@Dmnb2wav Well yeah I mean I stated that in the rules that only canon lol. And just want to mention real fast before I forget, NW also has bullet time reaction speed as he literally sliced a bullet in half with his axe when he was fighting Erron Black. Black was struggling until he stayed from a far shooting duel magnums at NW until Sheeva blitzed him. NW didn't go all out in that fight either, I mean he could have but had no need to. Look at what he did to Sindel in MK 9 and Cetrion in Aftermath...

Makes perfect sense so I must disagree. I did call him Injustice Superman, that's why I said Inj Superman as oppose to MK vs DC Superman who's clearly a regular Superman, that's not the same Superman. Superman in that universe is the normal Superman or at least a version of a regular, good Superman. He's not a featless Superman though just because he's not from Injustice's universe, this is an assumption but clearly if you played MK vs DCU you'd see that THAT Superman has already beaten Darkseid and Lex before so featless? I think not. Maybe he doesn't have as many feats as Inj Supes, sure but that doesn't make him featless. That's not scaling from Raiden though, Raiden at full power is powerful they just nerf him for sake of plot half the time because the dude's an immortal THunder God who would obliterate most it's one reason why he can't fight in Mortal Kombat due to the rules but we've been through this already.

Ryu on the other hand would stand no chance against Superman, you can't compare Ryu to Raiden lol...Supes is weak to magic, so win or lose vs Raiden, it would be more interesting than Ryu who'd get oneshotted in a second to Superman or Raiden.

Lex was actually evil in Injustice normally UNTIL Superman lost it, then he joined Batman as did other villains like Harley for example, once that happened it created odd bedmates during the war between the Insurgency and Regime.

@OniLordAsmodeus said:

@beta_stage: I wouldn't bring Superman into this. In the MK canon, Injustice was only a dream that only Sub and Raiden shared...somewhat, but regardless, it didn't happen and in any MK timeline.

@arctika Talking pure canon, the MK team should win this, and pretty easily. Even if you say that Akuma is physically stronger than either character on the MK team either Shang or Liu have more hax than him, and both are WAY faster.

  • Both Liu and Shang can teleport
  • Both Liu and Shang are casually lightning speed (and I would argue they were this fast pre Titan level power)
  • Both Liu and Shang can BFR (Shang actually did this to Geras in Aftermath)
  • Neither Shang or Liu have to exist in a physical body (Liu can become lightning or fire, and Shang can intangible and posses people, MK2

And on, and on...

There is honestly to much to get in to right now for me, but there is nothing that I've seen either Oni or Kage (Evil Ryu) do that would change my mind. This is a pretty clear stomp for the MK team in Round one.

And in round 2 I'd say this is a toss up for either Shang or Liu. Aftermath ended in a cliff hanger, so why wouldn't this.

Thanks for posting yeah I liked that nod to Injustice, it would appear that Raiden and Sub-Zero shared that experience but no doubt NRS did that as they were the only two DLC characters, I don't believe Scorpion has any intros mentioning it but he is probably aware of other universes, dimensions etc as he knows who Malbolgia is when he talks with Spawn. And good points that's true that they can still attack, BFR etc without being physical all the time.

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@Dmnb2wav

i no longer care about this whole canon and non canon thing but no I disagree with this.

Generally I agree with you as it pertains to CV, but with Akuma specifically, his noncanon feats are so out of the realm of the regular canon, that you have have to be careful. blowing up moons, or punching meteors is non in Akuma's character.

  • Both Liu and Shang are casually lightning speed (and I would argue they were this fast pre Titan level power)

what evidence proves that before their power ups they can move at lightning speeds? And even after their power up I still disagree.

nightwolf had to run from bullets, rev. Kang has to sit behind boulders from bullets, the fact bullets still move to these characters prove they aren’t close to lightning at all.

Both Shang and Liu have been shown to be able to fight Raiden straight up. Unless you are prepared to prove that Raiden, a being made up of lightning, doesn't move a lightning speeds, or that the lighting he produces doesn't move at lightning speeds, I don't know what to tell you.

I've decided to just take things a face value at this point. Lightning is lightning. Liu with his chi, and Shang with his magik, are well beyond human stats. In order for them to fight and defeat a being who can move, shoot, direct, and become lightning, they they themselves have to be able to react to, and/or move like lightning. Shang specifically can create portals through reality, breaking the law of physics completely, teleporting himself and other people all over the universe. He can even morph into Raiden directly and manipulate lightning himself...but he can't react to, or move at, those speeds?

As for the fight tho whatever is canon or non canon idc at this point so in their god forms they would win Just from hax and powers alone but not because of speed.

Sounds like you are in a bit of denial, but whatever...

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Team MK are more battle tested so I’ll back them. Fire God Liu Kang beat Cetrion who was taking on Nightwolf & Sindel at the same time. Akuma & Evil Ryu are both all hype no substance.

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#25  Edited By Dmnb2wavy

@arctika said:

@Dmnb2wav

Makes perfect sense so I must disagree. I did call him Injustice Superman, that's why I said Inj Superman as oppose to MK vs DC Superman who's clearly a regular Superman, that's not the same Superman.

what?

Superman in that universe is the normal Superman or at least a version of a regular, good Superman. He's not a featless Superman though just because he's not from Injustice's universe, this is an assumption but clearly if you played MK vs DCU you'd see that THAT Superman has already beaten Darkseid and Lex before so featless?

who are featless as well.

I think not. Maybe he doesn't have as many feats as Inj Supes, sure but that doesn't make him featless.

you do understand what I mean by featless right? if we take away the scaling from mk do you have any idea if dcvmk super man can destroy a city? A country? Or a planet? No he is featless.

That's not scaling from Raiden though, Raiden at full power is powerful they just nerf him for sake of plot half the time because the dude's an immortal THunder God who would obliterate most it's one reason why he can't fight in Mortal Kombat due to the rules but we've been through this already.

the scaling from raiden is the only scaling that would make dcvmk Superman relavant.

Ryu on the other hand would stand no chance against Superman,

no ryu would body that superman without scaling

you can't compare Ryu to Raiden lol.

this is why I said without scaling.

..Supes is weak to magic, so win or lose vs Raiden, it would be more interesting than Ryu who'd get oneshotted in a second to Superman or Raiden.

Without scaling Superman losses

Lex was actually evil in Injustice normally UNTIL Superman lost it, then he joined Batman as did other villains like Harley for example, once that happened it created odd bedmates during the war between the Insurgency and Regime.

check again. Injustice Lex says that he never indulged himself in law breaking like main counter part did.

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#26  Edited By Dmnb2wavy

@OniLordAsmodeus said:

@Dmnb2wav

Both Shang and Liu have been shown to be able to fight Raiden straight up. Unless you are prepared to prove that Raiden, a being made up of lightning, doesn't move a lightning speeds, or that the lighting he produces doesn't move at lightning speeds, I don't know what to tell you.

umm you do realize you can be made of something and not move at that speed at all times right? Electro has been made out of lightning before and yet no one is going to say Spider-Man can move faster than lightning or as fast as lightning. Anyway Yes I’m very prepared to argued that raiden does not move at lightning speed At all times.

reason one being mk characters still see bullets move ie night wolf and nightwolf himself is close to a top tier in the verse. He even got pushed back by Eron black who was only using guns.

reason two revenant kang has to hide behind a rock just to protect himself from bullets.

three the fact random fodder gets shot up by guns but they can still be fast enough for mk characters like Cassie.

four the fact mk characters even still use guns at all ( there be zero point in using them if they were as fast as lightning. As they would just statue them)

I've decided to just take things a face value at this point. Lightning is lightning. Liu with his chi, and Shang with his magik, are well beyond human stats.

nah I disagree with just accepting this type of stuff.

In order for them to fight and defeat a being who can move, shoot, direct, and become lightning, they they themselves have to be able to react to, and/or move like lightning. Shang specifically can create portals through reality, breaking the law of physics completely, teleporting himself and other people all over the universe. He can even morph into Raiden directly and manipulate lightning himself...but he can't react to, or move at, those speeds?

nope There are many problems with what your saying.

1. raiden does not even become lightning in mk he just stays solid more than most of the time and move at those speeds.

2. You can aim dodge raidens lightning

3. yes Shang can’t react to it. if you truly believe he is that fast why aren’t mk characters stauing bullets? Why do they still use guns at all? Why did nightwolf run from bullets? Why did young Johnny use a shield to stop the bullets? Why did young Johnny get tagged by a bullet? Why did old Johnny get shot in the knee caps?why did Cassie run from a gauntleting gun And get tagged by it? Why did sonya run from the gauntleting gun?

so many anti feats. it’s very clear they aren’t close to lighting speed at all.

btw liu kang and Shang don’t scale massively above any of these characters in speed as kang lost to shao Kahn( Johnny could dodge Kahn blows) and Shang almost died to Rev. night-wolf( night wolf beat rev. Nightwolf)

also didn’t Shang almost die due to lightning ? So much for being a lightning timer.

As for the fight tho whatever is canon or non canon idc at this point so in their god forms they would win Just from hax and powers alone but not because of speed.

Sounds like you are in a bit of denial, but whatever...

how?

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#27  Edited By arctika

@ Dmnb2wavy Umm I'm talking about the difference between the Superman's....you seem to be confusing MK vs DCU's with Injustice's, two entirely different Supermans....

He's no featless, proof he's featless? How did he become Superman and like I said confirmed to already beaten Darkseid, you are wrong. No he's not featless, just because you're holding him to high standards in which most Superman's from the multiverse don't destroy planets, galaxies etc that is typically SA Superman level feats, they nerfed the character down dramatically since then he only does things like that and rarely I might add even in the comics if the plot calls for it. He again already confirmed to have beaten Darkseid, that's already a solid feat if you knew who Darkseid is, he's not your typical saturday morning level villain....he's a multiversal threat.

No it's logical, since Raiden is literally a powerful God full of Magic and Magic is a major weakness to Superman and Kryptonians, this is basic common sense knowledge here...

No, the fact that you think Ryu would body by any version of Superman is hilarious. Ryu gets oneshotted easily by Superman and pretty much anyone in the JL for that matter.

Dude, with or without scaling Ryu would lose to Superman...yet you're trying to put him on Raiden level lol, come on now.

No he doesn't, Ryu has nothing to put Superman down. Superman will beat Ryu everytime unless Ryu literally has kryptonite hadokens and is covered in it, he has no chance here.

check again. Injustice Lex says that he never indulged himself in law breaking like main counter part did.

I did check, I believe you're the one who needs to check again. Normally in that universe it was like the mainstream universe UNTIL Superman snapped and became a dark, evil dictator did Lex NOT join up with Batman and the insurgency. Prior to that all the bad guys again Lex, Harley etc were not good guys.

Also to answer your question Raiden has become lightning at times he just rarely does it like in injustice 2 he literally becomes lightning and a dragon construct of his powers. In the movie he one shots scorpion and sub zero by literally becoming lightning then reforming into his human form. He's also vaporized hundreds of demons using his lightning contruct swords while moving really fast.

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#28  Edited By Dmnb2wavy

@arctika said:

@ Dmnb2wavy

you didn’t tag me correctly.

Umm I'm talking about the difference between the Superman's....you seem to be confusing MK vs DCU's with Injustice's, two entirely different Supermans....

that’s a face palm if I even seen one. I already said they were two different supermen.

He's no featless, proof he's featless?

he has no feats. Pretty simple honestly.

How did he become Superman and like I said confirmed to already beaten Darkseid, you are wrong.

which isn’t impressive because darkseid is featless as well. Lol like you do understand what the concept of “featless“ means right? dcvmk Superman has no feats that we can quantify. Without scaling from mk We don’t know if he is building lvl, planet lvl or city lvl and btw just because these characters are darkseid or Superman does not mean they are at a set lvl of power.

No he's not featless, just because you're holding him to high standards in which most Superman's from the multiverse don't destroy planets, galaxies etc that is typically SA Superman level feats,

okay Please tell me exactly how power mkvdc Superman is without mk scaling if he isn’t featless.

they nerfed the character down dramatically since then he only does things like that and rarely I might add even in the comics if the plot calls for it. He again already confirmed to have beaten Darkseid, that's already a solid feat if you knew who Darkseid is, he's not your typical saturday morning level villain....he's a multiversal threat.

Lol darkseid in mkvdc is featless as well and btw no darkseid in mk isn’t a multiversal threat. Unless your going to sit here and say every version of darkseid is a multiversal threat that claim is simply bullshit.

No it's logical, since Raiden is literally a powerful God full of Magic and Magic is a major weakness to Superman and Kryptonians, this is basic common sense knowledge here...

its a weakness yeah but characters like Shazam who has similar stats to Superman still has magic and lose to him. raiden who is wayyyy weaker than Shazam would lose but even then mkvdc Superman has no feats so it’s cool.

No, the fact that you think Ryu would body by any version of Superman is hilarious. Ryu gets oneshotted easily by Superman and pretty much anyone in the JL for that matter.

huh when did I say ryu would body any version of Superman? Mkvdc Superman is featless. He has no feats other than beating darkseid who is also featless as well. You can’t say Superman beating darkseid is a feat when we have zero idea of how powerful this version of darkseid is. It’s a weird ass scaling circle.

anyway without mk scaling ryu indeed does beat the mkvdc versions of the characters because they are again featlesss.

Dude, with or without scaling Ryu would lose to Superman...yet you're trying to put him on Raiden level lol, come on now.

your kinda eh idk let me ask do you think animated Superman or dceu Superman can beat ryu Just because their name is Superman? Because those versions of Superman actually have feats and I would put those characters above dcvmk Superman if it wasn’t for mk scaling. dceu Can put up a good fight but animated gets stomped by ryu.

also when did I state I was trying to put him on raiden lvl? so far it seems like your ability to read is kinda ass but anyway I been saying “without mk scaling” for the longest so obviously I think mk scaling matters enough that with it mkvdc Superman would be above ryu.

No he doesn't, Ryu has nothing to put Superman down. Superman will beat Ryu everytime unless Ryu literally has kryptonite hadokens and is covered in it, he has no chance here.

based off? oh yeah nothing.

check again. Injustice Lex says that he never indulged himself in law breaking like main counter part did.

That’s literally what I said.

I did check, I believe you're the one who needs to check again. Normally in that universe it was like the mainstream universe UNTIL Superman snapped and became a dark, evil dictator did Lex NOT join up with Batman and the insurgency. Prior to that all the bad guys again Lex, Harley etc were not good guys.

lex already stated he was never evil In this universe so clearly this universe was different than the main universe in that aspect. Also ww has a different origin in the injustice verse.

Also to answer your question Raiden has become lightning at times he just rarely does it like in injustice 2 he literally becomes lightning and a dragon construct of his powers. In the movie he one shots scorpion and sub zero by literally becoming lightning then reforming into his human form. He's also vaporized hundreds of demons using his lightning contruct swords while moving really fast.

Injustice 2 is non canon. Movies are non canon

so in canon he barely does it got it

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#29  Edited By arctika

@OniLordAsmodeusI agree, well said LMAO this kid is hilarious, now he thinks Ryu can beat Superman.....

+Dmnb2wavy: Yes I did but this site is glitched but is trivial.

No you keep confusing the two, one second you're on MK vs DC Superman and another Injustice. Facepalm.

Actually he does, again...he's already beaten Darkseid stop being purposely ignorant or you just clearly never played the game and are pretending to know what you're talking about....

Nope, Darkseid was already a threat and still darkseid if you knew anything about the character and how he became darkseid you'd know he's not featless, he killed his brother when he was still just Uxas and took his Omega power, killed the old gods and is currently one of the new Gods and a multiversal threat as a result. Also not to mention when he merged with shao Kahn they mind controlled everyone in mk vs DC and. Nearly destroyed two worlds... So not featless.

There is no scaling, that was apart of the story which confirmed such already with the two world's merging that weakened and buffed some people. So people like Superman, Flash, GL, Raiden, Quan Chi etc were weakened while people like Sonya, Sub-Zero, Catwoman, Lex, Joker, Baraka etc were buffed. Plus MK is full of magic so this is why Superman was also a bit weaker than normal which makes sense given the fact that he's vastly weak to magic.

Raiden isn't weaker than Shazam when unbound, only in his human mortal form does he have limitations but he's far older, more powerful than Shazam in pure God form, and in his Elder God form would destroy Shazam or Supes. Example of this, MK 4's intro confirmed centuries ago long when Raiden and Shinnok fought, their fight caused lots of destruction and as a result Raiden's power nearly destroyed Earthrealm, an entire planet, he wiped out billions of lives. A feat Shazam has never done remotely. Shazam has beaten Superman before, as well as Superman beating him. Plus Billy is a kid, so he doesn't even utililize his powers properly vs Superman because Clark also outsmarts him. A great example of this and proof, look at Black Adam vs Superman fights, BA kicks his ass because he's not a goofy kid, he's serious and has better knowledge of how to use Shazam's powers. Yet same power of Shazam.....the wizard. Captain Marvel/Billy/Shazam has the same exact powers. Also end of MK vs DC it was Raiden and Superman the only two left to face Dark Kahn in the story, and even their combined might was given them trouble. They faced each other when under Dark Kahn's mind control and stalemated so your theory is wrong.

You said that posts ago that Ryu would beat Superman from MK vs DC because in your mind he "has no feats" Again no you're wrong Darkseid isn't featless, dude Darkseid is a multiversal threat he's not like other characters in DC if you knew the lore there's only ONE Darkseid lol...he's not featless, he is the master of apokolips, he's clearly attacked Earths around the multiverse, including that one as he's always fighting Supermans in general. Sometimes he succeeds, other times he doesn't. Doesn't make him featless though....Still, Superman from any universe unless he has no powers murks Ryu. This shouldn't even be compared when it's a ridiculously onesided match up.

Actually Ryu does indeed lose badly to most MK vs DC characters on both sides, he'd probably beat Catwoman, Baraka, Sonya, Jax and Joker though but everyone else destroys Ryu on MK and DC's side easily. Including Batman and Lex who would have a prep plan given who've they've beaten in the comics. Ryu is not that powerful power scaling aside he'd lose to most MK and DC characters in general. This has already been established in many threads on here and in general.

Easily yes, they both have feats that far surpass Ryu. Are you serious? lol Neither of those Supermans have comic book feats level just like the MK vs DC doesn't but still, the fact that he's Superman with powers Ryu has no answer for such as flying and him dropping a mountain on Ryu or simply blitzing him into a house is all Supes needs. But to answer your question TAS and DCEU would oneshot Ryu easily. You can't be serious in thinking otherwise here, especially DCEU given his feats...what has Ryu done to remotely match either of those Supermans or in general, let me ask? Animated would murk Ryu even though he's shown to be a weaker version of Superman, he's beaten Darkseid or at least held his own, he beat Captain Marvel who's powerful and had red sun energy blasts weakening Supes yet Clark still beat him, he beat Billy but again like before pretty much because he outsmarted Billy being a kid otherwise he was getting his ass kicked by him prior to forcing him to say "shazam" and when he did he had to tie a steel bar around him and keep his mouth shut. He's beaten Brainiac. TAS would kill Ryu, just not as easily as the DCEU, comics, SV or other versions of Supes would.

Well you seem to think that Ryu is this powerhouse character who beats versions of Superman when he simply can't, regardless of feats or not because Ryu can't actually kill Superman here. Superman is weaker to magic but as you even pointed out, tends to survive. Ryu isn't even that magical, his hado could be considered magic but considering how fast Supes can move I doubt any version of him would get hit by a Hadoken. Especially when Ryu lost to normal brutes like Sagat and had to sucker punch him to win when he wasn't looking. What hope chance does Ryu have against a kryptonian? It seems your ability to comprehend logic is ass. I read what you said well, thanks but I actually know lore since I actually read comics, MK and follow SF. If you did you'd know your questions are ridiculous and laughable to think Ryu can compete with Superman, Raiden etc or most DC and MK characters for that matter. You keep going on about scaling, scaling no doesn't matter in this case. Ryu is a mere human with hado energy. Even without scaling Supes is well above Ryu still.

Based off umm facts and logic? Ok please humor me then, what is Ryu going to do against a full powered Superman from any universe regardless of feats, he still has Superspeed, invulnerability, flight, heat vision, super strength since you apparently aren't aware of Superman's powers vs Ryu, a martial artists with hado energy who can't move nearly as fast as Supes, isn't nearly as strong and not invulnerable last time I checked. What does Ryu do vs any Superman? Oh yeah nothing but die. By your logic Ryu would beat God from another universe because "God has no feats" do you see how ridiculous you sound right now? lol The only way Ryu would have a chance against Superman would be A. if he has kryptonite and knows how to use it or B. if this is one on one and Superman has no powers. Since neither of those would happen, Ryu dies. Period.

Ok, glad we agree on something.

Incorrect, Injustice 2 is canon actually to Sub-Zero and Raiden as they reference it in MK 11 plus that has nothing to do with my point that Raiden's powers can still do that in any universe, canon being my point. I never said anything about the movies, animated, live etc are it's own thing obviously. I'm talking about the games here which are canon.

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@arctika said:

@OniLordAsmodeusI agree, well said LMAO this kid is hilarious, now he thinks Ryu can beat Superman.....

kid? Heh yes I’m the kid here yet you still don’t understand the concept of feats or understood how to properly tag a person.

btw insulting me shows me that your losing the debate.

+Dmnb2wavy: Yes I did but this site is glitched but is trivial.

no it isn’t.

No you keep confusing the two, one second you're on MK vs DC Superman and another Injustice. Facepalm.

mate are you on something? That isn’t what confusion is. It just means I’m talking about both versions at a rate you don’t understand.

Actually he does, again...he's already beaten Darkseid stop being purposely ignorant or you just clearly never played the game and are pretending to know what you're talking about....

already went over this. I’m not gonna explain a simple concept again like I’m exposing something to a kid.

Nope, Darkseid was already a threat and still darkseid if you knew anything about the character and how he became darkseid you'd know he's not featless,

ard then give me feats of mkvdc darkseid instead of saying this is darkseid so he should be powerfu. I mean shit I keep asking for a power lvl for these characters but the funny part is that you keep ignoring it. That goes to show how fearless they are.

he killed his brother when he was still just Uxas and took his Omega power, killed the old gods and is currently one of the new Gods and a multiversal threat as a result.

based on..... oh yeah nothing. your just taking his comic origin and putting it in the game. and Btw is animated movie darkseid a multiversal threat as well? Or is darkseid from the jl ultimate cartoon

a multiversal threat too?



Also not to mention when he merged with shao Kahn they mind controlled everyone in mk vs DC and. Nearly destroyed two worlds... So not featless.

key point merged with shao Kahn. So yes he is still featless. Imagine calling me a kid and not understanding the concept of what featless means.

There is no scaling, that was apart of the story which confirmed such already with the two world's merging that weakened and buffed some people. So people like Superman, Flash, GL, Raiden, Quan Chi etc were weakened while people like Sonya, Sub-Zero, Catwoman, Lex, Joker, Baraka etc were buffed. Plus MK is full of magic so this is why Superman was also a bit weaker than normal which makes sense given the fact that he's vastly weak to magic.

I already said with mkvdc Superman it makes sense. Are you even reading what I’m typing at this point?

Raiden isn't weaker than Shazam when unbound, only in his human mortal form does he have limitations but he's far older, more powerful than Shazam in pure God form, and in his Elder God form would destroy Shazam or Supes. Example of this, MK 4's intro confirmed centuries ago long when Raiden and Shinnok fought, their fight caused lots of destruction and as a result Raiden's power nearly destroyed Earthrealm, an entire planet, he wiped out billions of lives. A feat Shazam has never done remotely.

lol that’s it? Planet lvl? Superman has shook star systems. Shazam scales to that strengh. So no Shazam is stronger than raiden unbound or not. also if we use pre crisis Shazam he would be way more powerful.

Shazam has beaten Superman before, as well as Superman beating him. Plus Billy is a kid, so he doesn't even utililize his powers properly vs Superman because Clark also outsmarts him. A great example of this and proof, look at Black Adam vs Superman fights, BA kicks his ass because he's not a goofy kid, he's serious and has better knowledge of how to use Shazam's powers.

ba has never kicked super man ass what are you even talking about? Superman always hold back which is why weaker beings like ba can pose a challenge. When ultra man fought ba he stomped him and keep in mind Superman would beat the socks off ultra man.

anyway Shazam has always matched ba so it’s not about billy being a kid or anything like that. Shazam is simply more powerful most of the time .


Yet same power of Shazam.....the wizard. Captain Marvel/Billy/Shazam has the same exact powers. Also end of MK vs DC it was Raiden and Superman the only two left to face Dark Kahn in the story, and even their combined might was given them trouble. They faced each other when under Dark Kahn's mind control and stalemated so your theory is wrong.

What theory are you even talking about? You know quoting me would actually help me understand what your writing.

You said that posts ago that Ryu would beat Superman from MK vs DC because in your mind he "has no feats"

which is true.

Again no you're wrong Darkseid isn't featless, dude Darkseid is a multiversal threat he's not like other characters in DC if you knew the lore there's only ONE Darkseid lol...he's not featless,

possibly the stupidest thing you said all thread. The darkseid in mkvdc is a avatar not the real one Obviously. Plus I’m not even sure if mkvdc darkseid even has a connection to the comics anyway. Comic lore has nothing to due with mkvdc so If we went by this dumbass logic then animated darkseid is a multiversal threat because his name is darkseid. Same with dceu darkseid.


not every version of the character is connected to comic lore.

There may be one darkseid

yes in comics and anything else connected to the comics. Dceu, animated, or mkvdc have no connection to the comics at all. Those are seperate versions entirely.

he is the master of apokolips, he's clearly attacked Earths around the multiverse, including that one as he's always fighting Supermans in general. Sometimes he succeeds, other times he doesn't.

no the only earth he attacked was mkvdc and he failed. you can’t just assume he attacked multiple earths without any evidence at all. The avatar is featless.

Doesn't make him featless though....

yes yes it does. Even if we assumed somehow mkvdc darkseid has a connection to the comics it would only be a avatar. Which vary in power between all versions of the character.

so he would still be featless anyway it doesn’t matter because mkvdc has no connection to the comics.


Still, Superman from any universe unless he has no powers murks Ryu. This shouldn't even be compared when it's a ridiculously onesided match up.

not I was wrong this is possibly the stupidest thing you said all thread. Ryu would beat dceu Superman, body animated movie Superman, body jl unlimited Superman, would body animated series Superma, ext.

ryu when going all( evil ryu) out scales to Akuma who is island lvl. None of those versions are close besides dceu Superman Arguably.

the fact you think just because their name is Superman so they win is honestly the dumbest argument I have came across on thIs site and that’s saying something because I have seven some stupid shit on this site.

Actually Ryu does indeed lose badly to most MK vs DC characters on both sides, he'd probably beat Catwoman, Baraka, Sonya, Jax and Joker though but everyone else destroys Ryu on MK and DC's side easily. Including Batman and Lex who would have a prep plan given who've they've beaten in the comics.

nigga did you just say “ who they beaten in comics” okay I know this is hard to understand but mkvdc aren’t the versions from the comics nor do they scale to those versions at all.

ryu would beat the mkvdc versions of the dc characters because they are featless.

Ryu is not that powerful power scaling aside he'd lose to most MK and DC characters in general. This has already been established in many threads on here and in general.

Ryu actually is that powerful. yes the comic book version of those characters not the mkvdc dc versions. evil ryu is island lvl

as for mk no he would body a lot of them just not raiden or god kang.

Easily yes, they both have feats that far surpass Ryu. Are you serious? lol Neither of those Supermans have comic book feats level just like the MK vs DC doesn't but still,

like? Because ryu is island lvl

the fact that he's Superman with powers

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂🤦🏽‍♂️bro I’m weak right now. what type of defense is this?. Nigga is Superman so he wins? Lol you just admitted he doesn’t have feats like the comic version so your argument is invalid.

Ryu has no answer for such as flying and him dropping a mountain on Ryu

sigh mkvdc Superman isn’t mountain lvl like wtf are you even talking about. Evil ryu is island lvl anyway so he cuts it in half.

or simply blitzing him into a house is all Supes needs.

Mk Superman is Not fast enough for that either.

But to answer your question TAS and DCEU would oneshot Ryu easily. You can't be serious in thinking otherwise here, especially DCEU given his feats...what has Ryu done to remotely match either of those Supermans or in general, let me ask?

ryu beat Akuma who is island lvl.
that’s the answer to your question.

Animated would murk Ryu even though he's shown to be a weaker version of Superman, he's beaten Darkseid or at least held his own,

okay? Ryu is superior to animated darkseid

he beat Captain Marvel who's powerful

Same thing ryu is stronger/


and had red sun energy blasts weakening Supes yet Clark still beat him, he beat Billy but again like before pretty much because he outsmarted Billy being a kid otherwise he was getting his ass kicked by him prior to forcing him to say "shazam" and when he did he had to tie a steel bar around him and keep his mouth shut. He's beaten Brainiac. TAS would kill Ryu, just not as easily as the DCEU, comics, SV or other versions of Supes would.

yeah sure based on feats no ryu is stronger.

Well you seem to think that Ryu is this powerhouse character who beats versions of Superman when he simply can't,

false.


regardless of feats or not because Ryu can't actually kill Superman here. Superman is weaker to magic but as you even pointed out, tends to survive.

Superman getting koed is a win as per rules on vine.

Ryu isn't even that magical, his hado could be considered magic but considering how fast Supes can move I doubt any version of him would get hit by a Hadoken. Especially when Ryu lost to normal brutes like Sagat and had to sucker punch him to win when he wasn't looking.

regular ryu has lost to sagat evil ryu no.

What hope chance does Ryu have against a kryptonian?

he farrr stronger so he has plenty of hope.

It seems your ability to comprehend logic is ass. I read what you said well, thanks but I actually know lore since I actually read comics, MK and follow SF. If you did you'd know your questions are ridiculous and laughable to think Ryu can compete with Superman, Raiden etc or most DC and MK characters for that matter. You keep going on about scaling, scaling no doesn't matter in this case. Ryu is a mere human with hado energy. Even without scaling Supes is well above Ryu still.


yeah I’m tired of correcting you so I won’t say much but when has ryu even just been a regular human with hado energy? If you actually read the comics these characters can do plenty of superhuman things.

Based off umm facts and logic? Ok please humor me then, what is Ryu going to do against a full powered Superman from any universe regardless of feats, he still has Superspeed, invulnerability, flight, heat vision, super strength since you apparently aren't aware of Superman's powers vs Ryu, a martial artists with hado energy who can't move nearly as fast as Supes, isn't nearly as strong and not invulnerable last time I checked. What does Ryu do vs any Superman? Oh yeah nothing but die. By your logic Ryu would beat God from another universe because "God has no feats" do you see how ridiculous you sound right now? lol The only way Ryu would have a chance against Superman would be A. if he has kryptonite and knows how to use it or B. if this is one on one and Superman has no powers. Since neither of those would happen, Ryu dies. Period.

denial doesn’t suit you. Ryu is island lvl most versions of Superman aren’t.

Ok, glad we agree on something.

Incorrect, Injustice 2 is canon actually to Sub-Zero and Raiden as they reference it in MK 11

no no it isn’t. They also refer to events in mkvdc which is non canon to injustice.

plus that has nothing to do with my point that Raiden's powers can still do that in any universe, canon being my point. I never said anything about the movies, animated, live etc are it's own thing obviously. I'm talking about the games here which are canon.

and you used other media because raiden rarely does it in canon which was my point.

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#32  Edited By arctika

Dmnb2wavy, yes it is and I really don't care. Stop posting then this way you won't have to worry about it.

Actually I do and yes you're clearly either a kid or you're merely ignorant.

Actually, I didn't insult you. I merely responded to YOUR first insult so by your own logic you've already lost this debate with you trying to tell me earlier "I can't read" yeah...hypocrite much? lol Anyone reading this topic can see it, and notice nobody else here agrees with you.

Yes it is.

mate are you on something? That isn’t what confusion is. It just means I’m talking about both versions at a rate you don’t understand.

Nope, not on anything I'm actually very straight edge thanks. Yes that is what confusion means, do you not know what the word confused means now "mate"? You're not talking about both versions because if you are then that just proves how off base you are even more, as anyone will tell you injustice and MKvsDC versions are anything but the same.

You failed then the first time and this time to explain anything, as again it's freaking Darkseid. If you think he's featless you're beyond ignorant, only thing you've exposed is how ignorant you are to the facts.

Power levels, again please read who and what Darkseid is. Also you're right, Darkseid is fearless. ;) Featless he is not.

Based on facts? If you read the comics you'd know DS in the books is one and only and a multiversal feat. Also, nobody's talking about TAS version, I'm talking about just darkseid in general from the books, character whole.

Yes if you've read the books you'd know DS is a multiversal threat

For that story yes but it was obvious Darkseid has invaded Earth and probably other times as well and would have succeeded if not for Superman and the JL, are we just going to ignore that fact? I mean we even see this at the beginning of the game. Not featless. Imagine me explaining facts to you and you still ignoring them like a kid. Also that was in the game's story, key point or not it's canon to that story.

Yes, I am are you reading what I'm typing? I merely pointed out the difference to you.

Shazam is not stronger than Raiden unbound or EG Raiden, sorry again you clearly don't know what you're talking about. Raiden has not just nearly destroyed one planet but has been powerful enough to rule it as well as destroy other worlds, he was an Elder God at one point who are easily planet + level threats, universal etc Don't believe me? Look up Cetrion, she can turn bigger than a planet if she wants....Raiden had relinquished that status in the original timeline due to aiding mortals directly as the Elder Gods have to be neutral as a group and not biased. Uhh yeah Silver Age Superman, not current Superman btw. Shazam isn't even planetary level, he's been beaten and outsmarted by freaking Batman. like I said read a comic please...Actually no, not even pre crisis Shazam is more powerful, than unbound Raiden or EG Raiden also Raiden is smarter, more knowledgable too as he's as old as Earth literally eons old given him an instant advantage and he can change time, something Shazam can't do. Raiden can do a lot more but I'll be here all day explaining it to you.

Shazam has matched BA better than Superman since he doesn't have a weakness to magic like Clark does.

Theory? Not a theory just telling you the canon of MK vs DC it's not a theory, the more you post the more it's obvious to me you haven't even played the MK games, Injustice etc btw normally I do quote, but when you break down every other sentence into 100 different quotes, it's not worth my time so I'll just break down each quote you make it's easier that way and less time consuming.

No it is not, Ryu still loses to Superman.

So you find the truth debunking your argument "stupid?" No, the stupidest thing you've posted is A. denying the fact how powerful DS is B. claiming Ryu can beat Superman, regardless of universe is irrelevant. DS is not an avatar in MK vsDC, proof of this? Unless he confirms this himself he was Darkseid, stop stretching for excuses. There is one Darkseid who has a connection to the entire multiverse, even the Smallville version who actually confirmed to be an avatar that Clark fought and beat in the show later met the actual Darkseid when he was a more experienced Superman. It's not out of the realm of impossible but this has not been confirmed by DC who also had to approve and assist the MK writers when MK vs DC was made, unless DC confirms such it was Darkseid. I already covered this regarding TAS, in the show he was just Darkseid, but later on the comics confirmed that was apart of the DC multiverse as Earth 12 TAS universe which would confirm that DS being the same DS from the comics since he's confirmed to have threatened or taken over Earth's as well as killed multiple Supermans around the multiverse, again this was explained in Darkseid's book during the New 52 run...if you read a book you'd know this. Also, YJ animated universe is also canon to the DC multiverse as Earth 16.

This is true, however what I'm telling you is that there is only ONE Darkseid in DC lore. The only question is when he shows in other universes if it's him or an avatar, and DC will confirm in that story sooner or later if it's an avatar or him himself.

You're right about DCEU and maybe MK vs DC, however Injustice and TAS ARE factually apart of the DC multiverse as confirmed in Convergence and DC also confirmed this while back. Injustice is known as it's own universe, and TAS is Earth12. If you have any questions feel free to ask and I'll confirm for you regarding which Animated series are canon, most of the original movies are it's own thing based off a comic story, but there ARE animated series and movies that are canon within the comic universe. Also, keep in mind WB owns both DC and MK so in I2 they make references to MK's Universe which can very well be canon to DC's multiverse as well though this has not been 100% confirmed by DC, the characters make references however with Sub-Zero, Scorpion and Raiden as if they have met them before as well as Joker in MK 11. All other guest characters however NOT a WB property are not canon at all TMNT, Robocop, Predator etc, etc

no the only earth he attacked was mkvdc and he failed. you can’t just assume he attacked multiple earths without any evidence at all. The avatar is featless.

No for THAT universe he failed, other Universes and Earth's Darkseid did NOT fail. You can't assume he's an avatar, take your own advice you tell me I can't assume yet that's exactly what you're doing with DS in MK vs DC you think he's an avatar without any evidence suggesting nor confirming such.

No, no it doesn't. DS was clearly a thread to Earth and Superman beating him well not even beating him but literally forcing him back into the portal to apokolips via a heat vision blast, he wasn't literally defeated beat on the ground but again there is no proof that he was an avatar.

No he wouldn't be featless, as it suggests he was able to invade and nearly take over Earth had the JL and Supes not been there to stop him.

No this is the stupidiest thing YOU'VE said and everyone here would agree, if you seriously think Ryu can beat Superman you're on drugs or just stupid. No he wouldn't body shit, DC TAS has feats that would kill Ryu, now I know you're just ignorant or trolling...TAS punched and amped merged with Brainiac tech Darkseid for blocks, he was strong enough to make DS's blasts backfire in his own face nearly killing Darkseid on apokolips. Ryu would die horribly fast it's not even funny. LMAO if you think Ryu would body DCEU then you're really ignorant, Ryu never destroyed a world destroyer, killed Doomsday, killed Zod or bodied Steppenwolf just stop kid. You're making yourself look bad...Ryu's feats are pathetic compared to pretty much any Superman. I do agree that you were wrong, just wrong period.

Ryu evil or not gets bodied by DCEU Superman, period. Don't believe me? Want me to make that thread? Just to see how much nobody on here would agree with you? lol I'm almost tempted....or let's see you make it, I dare you. lol

The fact that you think I'm judging by just a name of "Superman" is the dumbest thing I've read on here in a while, it's not the name guy. It's the fact that Superman is Superman, Clark Kent with Godly powers compared to little Ryu, a loner martial artist with hado energy that pales compared to what Superman in general has faced. Get real. Again, Ryu can't even beat Sagat without sucker punching him, you're clearly a Capcom or SF fanboy and it's showing.

nigga did you just say “ who they beaten in comics” okay I know this is hard to understand but mkvdc aren’t the versions from the comics nor do they scale to those versions at all.

Ok, seriously fist "mate" now "nigga"? Funny, I don't know any brits who use the latter term hmmm lol I'm neither, thanks anyway. Secondly, yes they've gotten beaten in the comics why is this so hard for you also there is an MK vs DC comic as well but I doubt you even knew that....most don't.

No he would not, Ryu would die against most MKDC characters because they're not featless and simply more powerful than him from both universes. Ryu wouldn't even beat Batman.

I've read the comics, Ryu does nothing to prove he'd beat most MK and DC characters. They also have comics, their feats surpass his outside of a few exceptions.

Raiden, LK, Sub, Scorp, Ermac, Shao Kahn, Onaga, Cage, Shinnok, Kronika, Shang and several others would kill Ryu....he'd beat Sonya, Jax and Stryker though.

And Superman is planet level? lol An island Ryu never shattered, that was Akuma not Ryu....

Since you clearly misunderstood what I said, I said Ryu would be able to beat Superman...IF he had no powers, it's not that hard sparky. But normally lol kid, Superman flickers his finger like he did to Flash in New 52 and KO's Ryu if not kills him.

Proof Ryu has shattered and mountain or island as you say? You saying he's "island level" doesn't prove anything without evidence, sorry. And yeah Superman in MKDC is powerful enough to lift a mountain if he wanted, why wouldn't he be exactly? Again you're trying to say he's featless and has no powers or something, his powers were effected due to the story which even Raiden confirmed when Sub-Zero beat Superman encasing him in ice, telling Sub-Zero that his powers were weakened as to why Sub beat him.

Yes he is, and Ryu isn't strong enough to put down Superman either.

That doesn't make Ryu island level, strawman argument. Ryu also lost to Sagat head on and only beat him via sucker punch....your point? Also Akuma is for SF stronger but compared to other universes like DC and MK rather weak.

No he is not, Ryu is not superior to animated DS lol what? No. there you go again with the high af level posts....Darkseid even TAS has proved to vaporize humans with his omega beams. Ryu has no answer for this just like he did killing Dan Turpin, Good night Ryu RIP lol also want to point out Superman when pissed was destroying a tank with his punches so hard it was literally shaking the entire city of metropolis. So yeah Ryu dies badly from either TAS Supes or DS 🤣🤣

No he's not, Ryu dies again. Now you're just trolling kid, I'm waiting for you to say "Ryu beats God" next...🙄 hate to disappoint you but Ryu doesn't beat everyone, in fact with most battles he'd lose more than win unless he's facing just regular humans or others SF level which are all street level.

They all have better feats than Ryu, so no Ryu is far weaker and dies.

No, true. Tell you what if you're SO convinced and not trolling, please make a Superman vs Ryu thread so you get laughed off the site bro. Because I know deep down you don't believe that because you're trolling at this point.

Yes, but too bad Ryu wouldn't be able to KO Superman though...

Semantics, Ryu is still Ryu as evil Ryu never even fought Sagat and he factually has less experience with dark hado energy than Akuma. He still lost to Sagat and only beat him due to a sucker punch, kind of weak if you ask me. Yet you think he'd beat Superman? DCEU, TAS or MK vs DC? LMAO

Ryu is not stronger than any kryptonian unless the kryptonian is cleansed of his powers or Ryu is literally made of kryptonite. That being said for the billionth time, Ryu dies here.

lol except you haven't corrected anything you just keep trolling with nonsense without evidence to prove Ryu can beat Superman without any shread of proof of him going up against anyone Superman level. Just stop. I'm tired of repeating myself correcting you a million times over by now. Plenty of super human things...lol that would do nothing to the likes of Superman, if you read comics outside of SF you'd know why Ryu would stand no chance against these other characters.

Not denial, more like debunking your baseless, biased and ridiculous statements. You're the one in denial lol. Like I said if you have the balls and are so convinced Superman loses to Ryu, please, please make that topic. Because like I said unless Superman has none of his powers or Ryu is make of kryptonite, Ryu loses badly. Period. I don't care which version of Superman he's facing as long as Supes has his general powers, that's all he needs. Ryu island level is not even, he beat Akuma. Akuma's island feat isn't even canon....🤦‍♂️ uhh yeah you know what you're right, most versions of Superman are HIGHER than island level and thus he stomps Ryu.

Yes ye is it, actually they're canon otherwise they wouldn't have referenced or remembered...

No, I used canon feats and powers that Raiden has done via his powers consistent with his character. Raiden rarely using other insane powers is irrelevant, point is what he can do and has done. Just because he can oneshot lightning fry most to a crisp doesn't mean he always does it or fly or change time etc, etc. All his powers are canon, period that's all that matters. Ryu beating Akuma doesn't make him island level unless he literally busts an island, which he's never done.

Posting non canon endings prove nothing, I can do that too. Superman MK DC being immune to magic, energy and sorcerer based attacks etc now. So by your logic, Ryu would definitely lose then.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDT-YfAZVtY

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arctika

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#33  Edited By arctika

Oh before I forget on BA, you're Wrong, yes BA has kicked Superman's ass. Read the comics, BA has beaten Superman quite a few times. Holding back is no excuse, lots of heroes hold back but he's still got beaten up by Black Adam. Here, since you're obviously unaware I'll enlighten you not just in the main universe but Injustice universe, hell any universe even the animated movies based off the comic stories prove this...

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BA handing Superman's ass to him. In fact in both cases main continuity as well as Injustice's universe Supes even needed help from the rest of the JL just to take on BA because Superman was losing to BA or too much for him.

Proves he's stronger than Supes when he's not in the mood and effortely tanks a bullrush blitz from Supes...as well as stops Superman effortlessly.

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BA is literally taking on the entire JL himself...

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Clearly Superman in Injustice too who's a powerhouse with TONS of feats was getting bodied and having trouble with BA and needed help from the rest of his Regime JL....

As for Ryu, he gets erased by Darkseid or beaten badly by him and/or Superman from TAS. This is what happens to Ryu if he challenged Darkseid.

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