Surfer takes 2, 3, and 4 due to vastly superior reactions and combat speed. Thor takes 1.
Thor vs Silver Surfer
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Can't silver surfer absorb energy to make himself eventually stronger than thor? And really I dont see thor keeping him down besides god blast...
If you are talking about this;
IIRC, He took energy from ''smallest star'' in the galaxy (red star) yet he was going to blow up, it is completely unbalanced ...
SS has travel speed, not combat speed advantage.
Surfer has numerous insane reaction feats that put him well out of Thor's reaction speed level. PIS off, Silver Surfer destroys the Thunder God.
To be fair, IMHO, Stan Lee intended Thor to be Marvel's most powerful superhero. But we don't appraise comic battles with PIS on here at Comic Vine. PIS is decidedly off.
I don't believe that combat speed of SS will make any difference...
Spidey vs. SS
Abomination vs. SS
SS has travel speed, not combat speed advantage.
Surfer has numerous insane reaction feats that put him well out of Thor's reaction speed level. PIS off, Silver Surfer destroys the Thunder God.
To be fair, IMHO, Stan Lee intended Thor to be Marvel's most powerful superhero. But we don't appraise comic battles with PIS on here at Comic Vine. PIS is decidedly off.
I don't believe there is a ''PIS'' or anything, every fight of SS shows that his combat speed is not the same with his travel speed...
Surfer : ''I have seen his mallet's magic ! It is truly mightier than my cosmic force !''
This issue from Silver Surfer 004 (1969) SS manage to beat Thor while amped by Loki, then he admits that Thor is stronger than him...
And before that Loki states the same ;
Loki : But, no match is he for Thor !
Also stalemates with Loki
That was 45 years ago, things have changed since then.
You bring up slower characters hitting. This happens all the time in comics. Just look at Spidy, with his reactions and pre cog half his villains should get no where near him but they do because otherwise it would be boring. Consistent PIS plus the fact that he isn't a fighter by nature and so rarely goes all out.. SS has been stated on panel to have FTL combat speed, nanosecond reaction times and has a host of top tier dodging feats. This is pretty significant against the guy who struggles to tag Wolverine (with Wolverine pointing out how slow he is and Thor admitting he is slower than him), gets speed blitzed by Mongoose and Spiderman and has it pointed out by Cap and Chulian how slow he is. In character, Thor has a chance. Out of character, Surfer blitzes him like he did Nova.
I have scans for this stuff but it's late. If this thread is still going tomorrow I'll post them then.
That was 45 years ago, things have changed since then.
You bring up slower characters hitting. This happens all the time in comics. Just look at Spidy, with his reactions and pre cog half his villains should get no where near him but they do because otherwise it would be boring. Consistent PIS plus the fact that he isn't a fighter by nature and so rarely goes all out.. SS has been stated on panel to have FTL combat speed, nanosecond reaction times and has a host of top tier dodging feats. This is pretty significant against the guy who struggles to tag Wolverine (with Wolverine pointing out how slow he is and Thor admitting he is slower than him), gets speed blitzed by Mongoose and Spiderman and has it pointed out by Cap and Chulian how slow he is. In character, Thor has a chance. Out of character, Surfer blitzes him like he did Nova.
I have scans for this stuff but it's late. If this thread is still going tomorrow I'll post them then.
This is a pretty good synopsis. Morpheus has covered this very same topic years ago on this very web site, below:
http://www.comicvine.com/silver-surfer/4005-2502/forums/silver-surfers-reaction-time-and-combat-speed-557085/#41
Also, battle forum rules dictate that PIS is turned off on a battle forums discuss. The example of Superman, who decidedly has super speed combat feats, often gets tagged by much slower characters. This is done for the sake of plot. Same with the Surfer. Getting tagged by slower characters is not always indicative of slow combat speed. Gotta read between the lines.
That was 45 years ago, things have changed since then.
You bring up slower characters hitting. This happens all the time in comics. Just look at Spidy, with his reactions and pre cog half his villains should get no where near him but they do because otherwise it would be boring. Consistent PIS plus the fact that he isn't a fighter by nature and so rarely goes all out.. SS has been stated on panel to have FTL combat speed, nanosecond reaction times and has a host of top tier dodging feats. This is pretty significant against the guy who struggles to tag Wolverine (with Wolverine pointing out how slow he is and Thor admitting he is slower than him), gets speed blitzed by Mongoose and Spiderman and has it pointed out by Cap and Chulian how slow he is. In character, Thor has a chance. Out of character, Surfer blitzes him like he did Nova.
I have scans for this stuff but it's late. If this thread is still going tomorrow I'll post them then.
Not just 45 years ago, there are other scans which shows his combat speed is completely different than his travel speed. (Like Skaar, Beta Ray Bill, Thor and Hulk fights)
If there are any PIS, i would say his increase of combat speed. Because SS wasn't designed that way.
And idk if people read the same comic as I did with Thor and Surfer's last couple of fight under Fraction's pen, but I seem to recall Surfer being rather ok while Thor attacked him when he was demanding the seed. His head popped back out like nothing happened. When Thor bullrushed through Galactus' head, wasn't it the Surfer who was seemingly showing concern for Thor before he flew to grab him and crash landed on Mars? As I recall it was Thor who was heavily invested in fighting and the Surfer wasn't? As I seem to recall again when Thor attacked him and told him to hold still, it was the Surfer who looked sullen and said Thor before getting blasted with hammer and lightning. Surfer sat there unphased with Thor saying he would kill him on Mars. Surfer blasts him and says are you finished? That blast blew away chunks of Thor's armor and the wound was shown. Surfer again stopped fighting and asked of the nature of his wound. Thor then threw his hammer at him while Surfer was again trying to talk.
As far I can tell, there are some out of context scans posted in this thread from their fight to try and construe some form of argument, but Silver Surfer did seem to hold back quite a bit on a Thor who was fully willing to kill him, injury or not. Surfer didn't go out of his way to fight Thor unlike Thor. He may have had the injury, but it didn't hamper him to the point he couldn't fight and hurt Surfer. Even then the Surfer was concerned with Thor. Surfer did fight at times, but he seemed to get angry for a brief moment and then calm back down.
thats what i've been trying to tell them lol
Surfer all rounds. He is much much faster and can 1 shot Thor
You are joking right ?
Also his ''combat speed'' is not better than Thor...
Thor is very unimpressive in terms of combat speed. Silver Surfer was able to react, fight, and counter blows of the Runner, the fastest being in the Marvel universe.
*Both are in character but highly motivated to win
-1st Round. Hand to hand fighting only
Thor. He's is the better H2H combatant.
-2nd Round. All abilities allowed except hammer/board
Surfer. Has better (indicated) reaction speed even without the board, has long range strikes, matter manipulation, etx...
-3rd Round. Hammer and Board re-enabled
Surfer. Too fast.
Bonus Round. Thor is in warrior-madness, Silver Surfer is bloodlusted
Same as above. No feats for warrior's madness, therefore makes no difference.
This.
Thor has much more experience in combat.
The problem is that both Galactus and Surfer have weakness with Odinforce. Surfer is a pacifist and hates fighting, Thor however loves it. I've yet see Surfer truly have no regard for Thors life when they meet up because that seems to be the general gist of how their encounters go " Thor please stop, I do no wish to fight"
" Nay, silver demon. We shall fight!" And then 90% of the fight is Surfer tanking hits and brushing them off afterwards. So, Im going to say that despite Thors physical strength, one blast from Surfer is going to reduce him to dust. Thor is heat resistant but an energy blast via the power cosmic is going to fry him all day long and in my view Surfer ALWAYS holds back and would not ever harm Thor despite Thor trying to kill him. That is just his way but I've always felt that Surfer would undeniably wreck most of the marvel verses top tiers without thinking twice if he put effort into it.
TOUCHE
And idk if people read the same comic as I did with Thor and Surfer's last couple of fight under Fraction's pen, but I seem to recall Surfer being rather ok while Thor attacked him when he was demanding the seed. His head popped back out like nothing happened. When Thor bullrushed through Galactus' head, wasn't it the Surfer who was seemingly showing concern for Thor before he flew to grab him and crash landed on Mars? As I recall it was Thor who was heavily invested in fighting and the Surfer wasn't? As I seem to recall again when Thor attacked him and told him to hold still, it was the Surfer who looked sullen and said Thor before getting blasted with hammer and lightning. Surfer sat there unphased with Thor saying he would kill him on Mars. Surfer blasts him and says are you finished? That blast blew away chunks of Thor's armor and the wound was shown. Surfer again stopped fighting and asked of the nature of his wound. Thor then threw his hammer at him while Surfer was again trying to talk.
As far I can tell, there are some out of context scans posted in this thread from their fight to try and construe some form of argument, but Silver Surfer did seem to hold back quite a bit on a Thor who was fully willing to kill him, injury or not. Surfer didn't go out of his way to fight Thor unlike Thor. He may have had the injury, but it didn't hamper him to the point he couldn't fight and hurt Surfer. Even then the Surfer was concerned with Thor. Surfer did fight at times, but he seemed to get angry for a brief moment and then calm back down.
Agreed.
this has been done in the comics also i think its safe to say ss has more than what it takes to win After seeing this scan:
SS clearly states "Your threats carry no coin with me, Asgardian. Nothing you do scares me."
SS also clearly catches Thor's Mjolnir wielding hands midstrike. Thor is straining and SS is not. Why can't SS KO Thor with Mjolnir while Thor is holding it a la the HULK? No WIS or CIS and this is possible.
And once again SS seems to be holding back while Thor is going all out.
I always thought that it was pretty clear that Thor is Surfers superior.
Round 1: Thor (Thor is a far superior H2H combatant than Surfer)
Round 2: Could go either way. Thor Typically hits Radd by lobbing Mjolnir at him. However Thor doesn’t need Mjolnir to be powerful
Round 3: I don’t think Surfer has ever defeated Thor and has directly stated that his Power Cosmic is Mjolnir’s inferior.
Bonus Round: I would say Thor again as Surfer was made to look completely unable to stop Thor in Blood and Thunder even when he stopped holding back. That wasn’t even true Warriors madness and before he got the power gem as well. I can’t see Radd winning here either.
@dimlylitlantern: round 1 surfer uses his planet busting strength to 1/2 shot thor.
@dami24434: what’s the big deal about current surfer?
Round 1: Thor
Round 2: Surfer
Round 3: Thor
Bonus Round: Thor
@the_living_tribunal_24: How is Surfer to beat Thor in any rounds here? At least from past encounters, the odds are highly against Radd. Silver Surfer is a pacifist unlike the warrior bound Thor. A hand to hand fight like round 1 dictates seems especially against Surfer here.
@dimlylitlantern: cool, but does thor have the h2h speed and strength to match surfer's casual planet busting punches?
@god_spawn: Why do you say that? I can't think of a time that SS has actually beat Thor in a standard fight. I could be missing something here, but Thor should have a decent advantage in this case.
@the_living_tribunal_24: Going off of Thor's showings in Blood and Thunder, he should be fine with tagging him. Also, does SS have planet busting punches? My knowledge on SS isn't as deep as it is with Thor. A scan would be appreciated. However, Thor has withstood planet busting pretty easily before.
@dimlylitlantern: oh gosh surfer would beat thor in so many ways, not just pure h2h, contain him in his board turn thor into sub-atomic particles, vaporise his brain blood heart you chose, create black holes inside thor, astral plane him, use his planetary level empathy to make thor feel unworthy. Destroy mjolnir like he rearranged brb's stormbreaker, bfr thor into the distant past or future. Complete mismatch.
@dimlylitlantern: here we analyse feats and use them
@the_living_tribunal_24: If this was a mismatch, then SS would have actually beat Thor already. Not only does he lose to him in Blood and Thunder, he loses to him again while being teamed up with Adam Warlock and has to retreat. He also fights pretty equally with Thor in Thor's 2011 series, but Thor is suffering from a magical gash in his torso that would not heal. The one time I can remember SS winning was with Loki amping his power to the point of winning. Even then, Thor is able to break through his shields and SS says he only won due to Thor holding back. Other than those, I can't remember any other wins for SS.
@dimlylitlantern: unfortunately its not how it works this is what we call writer induced stupidity, you think thor could survive any ability I just mentioned above?
@the_living_tribunal_24: When Thor beats Silver Surfer 3-4 times I think that is enough to say that Thor is Surfer's superior. Surfer probably can't do the things you mentioned to Thor as he directly says that he isn't holding back anymore and still loses an instant later. I can't call it PIS, WIS, or CIS when Silver Surfer hasn't beat Thor ever to begin with.
@dimlylitlantern: nope, writers when doing between the surfer and thor they seem to forget or don't use this abilities most probably because stan wanted thor to be the "strongest hero" and since surfer has been shown to be way more versatile/powerful than thor (planet busying strength and energy projection, transmutation and atom arrangement(did this to beta Ray Bill), black hole creation, telepathy empathy speed reaction time cosmic awareness atomising enemies at a sub-atomic level time travelling can see the future and the past, and many more its hard not to see him stomp.
@the_living_tribunal_24: Beta Ray Bill isn't Thor though. Thor is more powerful than Bill is. Silver Surfer's energy projection isn't anything that Thor can't absorb and redirect and he isn't as physically strong as Thor is. Mjolnir is quite versatile as well and can more than match the Power Cosmic in power (as Surfer himself has stated). I can't just say that all Thor and Surfer's fights are irrelevant in a fight that pins Thor against Silver Surfer. I understand that SS has crazy feats, but that doesn't seem to matter when he has consistently lost to Thor on nearly every occasion they have met.
PIS can happen repeatedly and often. Look at how many times Gorilla Grod or Captain boomerang can tag Flash. Writers have to sell comics. so if they have to make a mismatch look like a good fight then they will. Spiderman has defeated Firelord and almost KOed Eric Masterson in Thor's body.
Writers have to fill comic pages and advance the story. On
comicvine we are not restricted like writers are.
So the fact that thor has beaten SS in a comic.... does NOT mean the battle will have the same outcome on Comicvine.
1st Round. Hand to hand fighting only... THOR LITERALLY BEATS THE SILVER SNOT OUT OF HIM.
-2nd Round. All abilities allowed except hammer/board. THOR USES HIS HAMMER FOR OFFENSE AND DEFENSE MORE THAN SURFER USES HIS BOARD SO I GO WITH SURFER.
-3rd Round. Hammer and Board re-enabled. IN A COMIC BOOK. THOR HAS WON. ON COMICVINE SURFER WINS.
Bonus Round. Thor is in warrior-madness, Silver Surfer is bloodlusted. WHEN SURFER FOUGHT THOR IN WARRIORS MADNESS, ALL SURFER DID WAS ENERGY BLAST. IF SURFER WANTS TO USE HIS FULL RANGE OF ABILITIES THEN SURFER WINS.
@dimlylitlantern: What disadvantages does Silver Surfer really have? Despite old showings and a debatable fight in Fraction’s run, what advantages does Thor have outside of skill and some shown strength?
@god_spawn: I feel the fact that Thor hasn't really lost to Silver Surfer in any of the fights they have had is enough to cement a victory for him. It could be debated if Thor has only beat him once, but this is a rather consistent thing that happens between the two. I can't see Radd's energy projection helping him due to Mjolnir's excellent absorbing and redirecting capabilities. SS doesn't seem to have any physical strength feats that can put him above Thor. At least, none that I can find. The Power Cosmic and Mjolnir have similar versatility leading me to believe that SS's vast versatility wouldn't be much of a factor. With these reasons in mind, I see Thor taking victory in each round.
@p00ty: I see what you mean by Comic Vine standards and rules differing from the comic's limitations, but one can only go so far. Flash does get hit when he objectively shouldn't, but he doesn't go around to any of his rogues and say that he is weaker than them nor does he ever doubt that he can beat any of them (save for maybe Zoom). Surfer has outright said that he can't beat Thor in battle before. He is even willing to accept this fact in his own comic, where the main hero is typically written to be slightly stronger than they typically would be. Wonder Woman beating blood lusted Superman in her own comic despite her stating that she is weaker than him in Superman's comic series for example.
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