Thor vs Blue Marvel and Wonderman (classic)

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jeanroygrant

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#101  Edited By jeanroygrant

@a88378438 said:

Thor arm westling Hercules and could have thrown the planet out of orbit, without Mjolnir

no prove this is really,not true

just Exaggeration,thor or herc No one can make me sure feat they can do this feat@jeanroygrant:

Either way there is still a bunch more.

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venomoushatred1001

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@jeanroygrant: Stop replying to a88378438. (S)He obviously doesn't know anything about Thor.

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jeanroygrant

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#103  Edited By jeanroygrant

@a88378438 said:

in the muscle ,hulk is stronger than thor or herc

No he is not stronger than either of them....

@venomoushatred1001 said:

I love how people are saying Blue Marvel is stronger than Thor when his best strength feat was lifting a meteorite the literal size of Arkansas (which was done off screen). Thor has lifted WAY heavier things than that

Marvel really needs to up Thor so people will start respecting him again.

@oceanside1 said:

Blue Marvel kicks Thor a$$ easier and faster than the Hulk does. He is a stronger Gladiator type trained as a no surrender killing marine. Personally the skills of a killer marine is more than a 800 A.D. viking. If Thor does manage to take out WM is BM gonna stand there and watch as any marine corp solider would? No he is gonna speed blitz Thors vital parts and eventually kill him before Thor or while is focused on WM. If Thor attacks BM first who can take any attack or dodge most of his attacks also will leave Thor open for a blindsided KO from a Class 90 WM. Either way Thor loses badly and probably won't even take out either of the team in the process. BM> King Hypes> Thor. Remember KH beatdown the Juggernaut and broke his leg and would have killed him in the Thunderbolts awhile ago.

Thor>Blue Marvel or Wonder Man.

@Postacrat said:

@venomoushatred1001 said:

@jeanroygrant said:

@Postacrat said:

@joshuagamer said:

Blue Marvel is substantially stronger than Thor all on his own. Wonderman comes in just underneath Thor in power, so the two of them against Thor is overkill. When I reference Thor's power, I am talking about him with Mjolnir, but if you really want to be honest and fair (which not many people want to do), you wouldn't even count Mjolnir. If Superman, Blue Marvel, Sentry, Wonderman, or any other top tier being was shown with a tool of Mjolnir's might in every fight, they wouldn't count that to be a part of that character's strength (not to be ignored though). I love Thor, but in all honesty, he's simply a much more powerful version of Luke Cage without the hammer.

That's all ever say about Thor, everything people say's he can do is all because of Mjolnir and that's it. Take that hammer away from him and it's short work because physically he is not that strong. Secondly his feats of strength pale in comparison to a number of top tier powerhouses that don't even have a mystical weapon, they fight unarmed. Physically without that hammer his strength is not that much greater than Wondermans. Don't get me wrong on paper and data bases Thor is portrayed as the most powerful being physically, but if you read the books and are honest with yourself you'll see without the hammer he's overrated. One more thing all of these astronomical feats that are constantly brought up about Mjolner are not regular feats, if Thor was capable of this kind of power on a consistent basis then he could beat Galactus. They are only good for last minute saves in very desperate situations, and there are lot's of times Thor is getting wrecked and these small miracles never occur.

Do you read a lot of Thor comics? Because this is false...

These are all done without Mjolnir.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5Gallery image 6Gallery image 7Gallery image 8Gallery image 9Gallery image 10

Thor holds back on every person on Midgard ( Earth )

Well said and nice scans, bro :)

Their good scan's indeed and yes I have these books, however they still prove nothing wrong about my statements. Thor moving or destroying Mystical Inanimate objects, or the arm wrestling means nothing when without Mojlnir he still gets smacked around 86-90% of the time. Perhaps they should mean something, but when The Hulk or Sentry show these feats just don't amount to much in my eyes. He could barely handle the Sentry with his hammer, whom Has been shown to have strength comparable to Blue Marvels. Don't get me wrong I know Thor is not weak in any way, however he's just not that strong whenever I see him fight a notable powerhouse is all.

Scans of this?

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vance_astro

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#104  Edited By vance_astro  Moderator
@venomoushatred1001 said:

He was completely absent the entire issue, and didn't resurface until next issue when he became Void.

Doesn't mean he was KO'd.
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#105  Edited By Postacrat

@jeanroygrant said:

@a88378438 said:

in the muscle ,hulk is stronger than thor or herc

No he is not stronger than either of them....

@venomoushatred1001 said:

I love how people are saying Blue Marvel is stronger than Thor when his best strength feat was lifting a meteorite the literal size of Arkansas (which was done off screen). Thor has lifted WAY heavier things than that

Marvel really needs to up Thor so people will start respecting him again.

@oceanside1 said:

Blue Marvel kicks Thor a$$ easier and faster than the Hulk does. He is a stronger Gladiator type trained as a no surrender killing marine. Personally the skills of a killer marine is more than a 800 A.D. viking. If Thor does manage to take out WM is BM gonna stand there and watch as any marine corp solider would? No he is gonna speed blitz Thors vital parts and eventually kill him before Thor or while is focused on WM. If Thor attacks BM first who can take any attack or dodge most of his attacks also will leave Thor open for a blindsided KO from a Class 90 WM. Either way Thor loses badly and probably won't even take out either of the team in the process. BM> King Hypes> Thor. Remember KH beatdown the Juggernaut and broke his leg and would have killed him in the Thunderbolts awhile ago.

Thor>Blue Marvel or Wonder Man.

@Postacrat said:

@venomoushatred1001 said:

@jeanroygrant said:

@Postacrat said:

@joshuagamer said:

Blue Marvel is substantially stronger than Thor all on his own. Wonderman comes in just underneath Thor in power, so the two of them against Thor is overkill. When I reference Thor's power, I am talking about him with Mjolnir, but if you really want to be honest and fair (which not many people want to do), you wouldn't even count Mjolnir. If Superman, Blue Marvel, Sentry, Wonderman, or any other top tier being was shown with a tool of Mjolnir's might in every fight, they wouldn't count that to be a part of that character's strength (not to be ignored though). I love Thor, but in all honesty, he's simply a much more powerful version of Luke Cage without the hammer.

That's all ever say about Thor, everything people say's he can do is all because of Mjolnir and that's it. Take that hammer away from him and it's short work because physically he is not that strong. Secondly his feats of strength pale in comparison to a number of top tier powerhouses that don't even have a mystical weapon, they fight unarmed. Physically without that hammer his strength is not that much greater than Wondermans. Don't get me wrong on paper and data bases Thor is portrayed as the most powerful being physically, but if you read the books and are honest with yourself you'll see without the hammer he's overrated. One more thing all of these astronomical feats that are constantly brought up about Mjolner are not regular feats, if Thor was capable of this kind of power on a consistent basis then he could beat Galactus. They are only good for last minute saves in very desperate situations, and there are lot's of times Thor is getting wrecked and these small miracles never occur.

Do you read a lot of Thor comics? Because this is false...

These are all done without Mjolnir.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5Gallery image 6Gallery image 7Gallery image 8Gallery image 9Gallery image 10

Thor holds back on every person on Midgard ( Earth )

Well said and nice scans, bro :)

Their good scan's indeed and yes I have these books, however they still prove nothing wrong about my statements. Thor moving or destroying Mystical Inanimate objects, or the arm wrestling means nothing when without Mojlnir he still gets smacked around 86-90% of the time. Perhaps they should mean something, but when The Hulk or Sentry show these feats just don't amount to much in my eyes. He could barely handle the Sentry with his hammer, whom Has been shown to have strength comparable to Blue Marvels. Don't get me wrong I know Thor is not weak in any way, however he's just not that strong whenever I see him fight a notable powerhouse is all.

Scans of this?

Scan's of what? You mean you need even more proof of Thor's bad battle showings? I can do it even though I feel like their is enough in this thread.

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czarny_samael666

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@Vance Astro said:
@venomoushatred1001 said:

He was completely absent the entire issue, and didn't resurface until next issue when he became Void.

Doesn't mean he was KO'd.
At best it is a BFR for me, but still a good scan. 
 
@CitizenBane said:

@czarny_samael666 said:

@CitizenBane said:

@czarny_samael666 said:

This is a lie. And I somehow belive that You've did it on purpose.

Not really. I've seen you say Blue Marvel beating King Hyperion is invalid because he was depowered on at least two other threads. At best you could say one writer wrote KH differently. At best. Every other character who receives an upgrade or downgrade has some kind of on-panel or handbook verification of the same. Does King Hyperion have that? No? Didn't think so. Would you mind giving me any kind of official proof that he was depowered? Any official kind, other than your conjecture and ......a different uniform?

That is the different thing. First You've said that I've said that just because KH lost to BM, then he had to be depowered. No, I've said that he was depowered, so this isn't a very good prove of his power. Two different things. I don't read handbooks, they're not a prove of anything.

.......I did not say handbooks were proof of anything. I said that along with ON-PANEL PROOF (something you ignored), they collaborate claims that a character was depowered or upgraded. Does KH have either? No? There you go. That is essentially what you've said, because there is no proof that KH was actually depowered. He lost to Blue Marvel and had a couple of other encounters with Juggernaut etc. that disagreed with your conception of where his power level lies, and therefore he's depowered? Was Rulk depowered after Jeph Loeb stopped writing him? Because his showings pre-Loeb are better than the ones post-Loeb. I've never heard anyone claim he was depowered.

Ok, we can end this quickly acctually:
You've said that in my opinion fight between KH and BM can't count and because KH lost and he shouldn't. 
And this isn't true.
 It would be stupid, because it would mean that no matter what BM would do I could always use that (false) argument. 
No, my point was that Hyperion was depowered. You can agree with me or not, but it wasn't a point about which You lied about my point. 
 
Now, calm down. You somehow always seems to be angry... 
 
If You want to talk about "depower thing":
We see some random Hyperion. We don't know who he is and from where he comes. He looks differently than King Hyperion, so it is hard to belive for me that he is the real KH, a specially considering last apperance of KH. 
But ok, his words somehow show similar orgin to original KH, so I can accept that they are the same person.
 
Second thing is that in his last apperance he was highly weakned, defeated ,etc. I would compare it to situation in which Hulk was defeated by Zeus (his HF was exhausted), Odin from Thor vol 2 after he was imprisoned by Dark Gods or to Thor from Fear Itself who was injured by Yggdrasil. All these people were hurt in their apperance before fights with: bugs on Savage Land, Enrakt and Nul & Thing. I don't consider their losts to other people as a worthy one, until it will be shown that they back to good health. 
I've didn't seen King Hyperion coming back to good health too. 
So, I should consider at least possibility that he didn't. To make an opnion about that I would just wait for his next apperances. Next King Hyperion apperances were placed in Thunderbolts series and he totally didn't look like someone on even Hyperion level. That is why I don't see why should I consider him as a person who he was in the past. 
 
Now, about his fight with Blue Marvel. 
 
Let say that it is fully power KH. As much as against Sentry - this fight should be considered as a tie. Against Sentry BM won first round and would have Sentry at his will, if other Avengers wouldn't hold him. Then Sentry take his occasion and KOd BM. It isn't a clear win for Sentry at all IMO.
As much as BM's win over KH isn't clear, becuase he already was on his knees, but overconfident Hyperion just left him there and gived him a chance to change tacitc and win a battle. 
If BM won with KH, then he lost to Sentry. If we count one as a stalemte - we should also count other one too. 
 
Here it rather matter what Blue Marvel, WM and Thor really can do. We have seen in the past that Wonder Man maybe is on par in strength with powerhouses, but his durability isn't that impresive. He also is made of energy, energy that can be drained by Thor.
 
Now, Thor has two powerfull opponents. What he will do? Out of character he should just base his energy attacks against BM on Wonder Man's energy. This would sooner or later take out Simmon and keep Blue Marvel away from him.
 
In character he would attack one with brute strength and  other one with thunders.  Then he will swap these attacks if both still be ready to fight. Wonder Man had a problems in the past with surviving Mjolnir's attacks, so I don't belvie that he will stand there too long. 2, maybe 3 attacks (at best). So we have Blue Marvel against Thor.
 
IMO Blue Marvel isn't as strong or durable as Thor. Mjolnir can absorb his energy attacks and Blue Marvel don't seem to have greater reflex than Thor.  Thor won greater battles and even when he was injured against Nul and Angrir he still won. This battle will be eaiser.
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TheDude123

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#107  Edited By TheDude123

@venomoushatred1001 said:

@Vance Astro: @TheSwordsman:

Note he was out the entire issue.
Note he was out the entire issue.

No offense but this does not show Thor one-shotting Sentry as others have said also. It only shows him knocking sentry away.

The scan below shows that sentry was definitely KO-ed and One-shotted by BM. So It still holds true that Blue Marvel is the only character that has one-shotted Sentry unless there are scans to show otherwise.

Sentry is clearly KO-ed by Blue Marvel
Sentry is clearly KO-ed by Blue Marvel
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vance_astro

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#108  Edited By vance_astro  Moderator
@czarny_samael666 said:
At best it is a BFR for me, but still a good scan. 
It's not a good scan.It's just proof of Sentry's fluctuating durability.
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venomoushatred1001

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@TheSwordsman said:

@venomoushatred1001 said:

@Vance Astro: @TheSwordsman:

Note he was out the entire issue.
Note he was out the entire issue.

No offense but this does not show Thor one-shotting Sentry as others have said also. It only shows him knocking sentry away.

The scan below shows that sentry was definitely KO-ed and One-shotted by BM. So It still holds true that Blue Marvel is the only character that has one-shotted Sentry unless there are scans to show otherwise.

Its still good scan. Thor at the very least BFRed him.

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TheDude123

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#110  Edited By TheDude123

@majestic99 said:

@venomoushatred1001 said:

Note he was out the entire issue.
Note he was out the entire issue.

@Vance Astro: @TheSwordsman:

Another note, Thor killed Void:

No Caption Provided

Context: Sentry asked Thor to kill him in earlier panels.

and took Sentry's corpse from the Earth to the Sun in a matter of moments:

No Caption Provided

Source for both scans:Dark Avengers

That was not a one-shot of Sentry only, like others said, a BFR at best. And the void wanted Thor to kill him and basically let him (Not that thor couldn't have but the void was not really resisting per se0 and it was not a one shot either.

This is a definite scan of Blue Marvels One shot of Sentry:

Clearly one-shotted and knocked out by Blue Marvel without and need for off-panel speculation. This is the only conclusive scan of Sentry being one-shotted by anyone to my knowledge.
Clearly one-shotted and knocked out by Blue Marvel without and need for off-panel speculation. This is the only conclusive scan of Sentry being one-shotted by anyone to my knowledge.
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#111  Edited By TheDude123

@venomoushatred1001 said:

@TheSwordsman said:

@venomoushatred1001 said:

@Vance Astro: @TheSwordsman:

Note he was out the entire issue.
Note he was out the entire issue.

No offense but this does not show Thor one-shotting Sentry as others have said also. It only shows him knocking sentry away.

The scan below shows that sentry was definitely KO-ed and One-shotted by BM. So It still holds true that Blue Marvel is the only character that has one-shotted Sentry unless there are scans to show otherwise.

Its still good scan. Thor at the very least BFRed him.

You said that Thor one shotted Sentry when I stated that Blue Marvel was the only one to have done so. He did not, and Blue Marvel remains the only one to have done so. It is not a good scan to me because it doesn't not prove your case that Thor one-shot KO-ed Sentry, as Blue marvel did. Thor at the very most BFRed Sentry.

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#112  Edited By Static Shock

@TheSwordsman said:

Isn't rock and metal laced rock much,much heavier per cubic foot than organic tissue and bone though?

Because of the proportion of size between the Serpent (whose size entangled the Earth) and the asteroid, that wouldn't be possible.

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#113  Edited By Static Shock

@czarny_samael666 said:

King Hyperion isn't from 616 and this also isn't a Hyperion from 616.

I know that, and this wasn't what I was asking (even though the fight itself was in 616 Marvel, anyway).

@czarny_samael666 said:

King Hyperion fought with two Hyperions, blind one and most powerfull we know (the same who stalemated Gladiator), one of Exiles broke his neck, but he recover from that injury. Later Blink opened a protal in his chest and fulled him with sand. His HF couldn't take that damage. After this defeat, Hyperion was left on his own Earth and he couldn't escape from there. This is a sign of depowering.

The other two Hyperions obviously aren't as powerful as King Hyperion. Blink damaged him to the point where he couldn't make an escape on his own. It doesn't mean that he was depowered at the time. Your claim is based on a bunch of meaningless assumptions, and I'm pretty sure that it was never, ever stated that King Hyperion was weakened because of that attack.

@czarny_samael666 said:

And other two things - this KH use different uniform.

So what? Characters make uniform changes over time (and sometimes, there are subtle changes in costumes from artist to artist), and most them aren't directly linked to fluctuations in power.

@czarny_samael666 said:

he also had a problems with DP Juggernaut (later was killed by Man Thing) and nanobots easily worked on him.

Then, it's the writing of the character that's questionable (he was obviously jobbed), not his power level. His defeat against Blue Marvel is a legitimate loss, because King Hyperion was sized up with one of the strongest being in 616 Marvel (and for a while, Hyperion had him on the ropes). Even in battle, Marvel stated that he was not the same as the Blue Marvel that Hyperion killed in another reality. When a character is truly depowered, it is documented in certain books and/or also in updated versions of the Handbook. Black Panther (because the Panther God lifted his blessing from him after he was made comatose and near-death by Doom), Juggernaut (losing the influence of Cytorrak on two occasions), millions of mutants during M-Day (including notable ones, because of Scarlet Witch saying '"no more mutants"), Wolverine (his healing factor, after Fatal Attractions, because of Magneto ripping the adamantium from his body), Moon Knight (because Khonshu lifted his blessings from him), and many others have documentation.

Provide official proof or documentation of King Hyperion being depowered, and I'll rest my case.

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majestic99

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#114  Edited By majestic99

@a88378438:

Thor's strength has nothing to do with his hammer! Nothing!

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majestic99

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#115  Edited By majestic99

@TheSwordsman said:

That was not a one-shot of Sentry only, like others said, a BFR at best. And the void wanted Thor to kill him and basically let him (Not that thor couldn't have but the void was not really resisting per se0 and it was not a one shot either.

I thought that, but wasn't sure because I haven't read the issue in a while.

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#116  Edited By TheDude123

@Static Shock said:

@TheSwordsman said:

Isn't rock and metal laced rock much,much heavier per cubic foot than organic tissue and bone though?

Because of the proportion of size between the Serpent (whose size entangled the Earth) and the asteroid, that wouldn't be possible.

Actually. Arkansas is 53182 square miles and the equatorial circumference of the Earth is 24,901 miles so the asteroid could be stretched around the earth in mile long sections twice and that is only the surface area of Arkansas. Also the asteroid was not flat but roughly oval shaped and therefore of much more mass than Arkansas so it is actually possible and quite probable that the asteroid weighed more than the Serpent as the asteroid likely had more mass and obviously was much denser. as minerals and metals are much heavier than tissue and bone per cubic foot.

My initial point, though, was that density is as great a factor if not greater than size when determining weight although further calculations have proven, at least in my mind, that the asteroid weighed more than the serpent in all likelihood.

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majestic99

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#117  Edited By majestic99

@a88378438 said:

Thor arm westling Hercules and could have thrown the planet out of orbit, without Mjolnir

no prove this is really,not true

just Exaggeration,thor or herc No one can make me sure feat they can do this feat@jeanroygrant:

No.

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vance_astro

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#118  Edited By vance_astro  Moderator
@WINDYNIGHT said:

@Static Shock said:

@TheSwordsman said:

Isn't rock and metal laced rock much,much heavier per cubic foot than organic tissue and bone though?

Because of the proportion of size between the Serpent (whose size entangled the Earth) and the asteroid, that wouldn't be possible.

Wrong as usual Static and if you knew anything about Thor you would know the only one who can kill or depower him is his Dad, but I dont know why I tell you this because from what i've seen you're the same. you got problems static my friend. always have, always will. wonder woman get damaged by bullets that more than enough proof thors will rape with ease. crush her like an egg. enough said. Thor stomps and if anyone says otherswise they're in fact wrong. watch the Thor movie. Only his Dad can depower him.

1.Don't try and belittle Static. 
2.Don't use the word rape.
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#119  Edited By Army2442  Online

@WINDYNIGHT: This is Wonder Man not Wonder Woman being used in the battle.

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#120  Edited By texasdeathmatch
@WINDYNIGHT said:

Wrong as usual Static and if you knew anything about Thor you would know the only one who can kill or depower him is his Dad, but I dont know why I tell you this because from what i've seen you're the same. you got problems static my friend. always have, always will. wonder woman get damaged by bullets that more than enough proof thors will rape with ease. crush her like an egg. enough said. Thor stomps and if anyone says otherswise they're in fact wrong. watch the Thor movie. Only his Dad can depower him.

Haha this is the silliest thing I have ever read on this site. And judging by your post count and the way you're addressing Static, it looks like you're a little bitter about being banned. Ironic that you say Static's the one with problems.
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TheDude123

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#121  Edited By TheDude123

@WINDYNIGHT said:

@Static Shock said:

@TheSwordsman said:

Isn't rock and metal laced rock much,much heavier per cubic foot than organic tissue and bone though?

Because of the proportion of size between the Serpent (whose size entangled the Earth) and the asteroid, that wouldn't be possible.

Wrong as usual Static and if you knew anything about Thor you would know the only one who can kill or depower him is his Dad, but I dont know why I tell you this because from what i've seen you're the same. you got problems static my friend. always have, always will. wonder woman get damaged by bullets that more than enough proof thors will rape with ease. crush her like an egg. enough said. Thor stomps and if anyone says otherswise they're in fact wrong. watch the Thor movie. Only his Dad can depower him.

This thread is about Blue marvel and Wonder MAN not wonder woman. And it's comic Thor not movie Thor and Thor can be killed by many things besides his father. Just because in the movie his father de-powered him does not mean he cannot be defeated in the comic books, or the movie for that matter, or even killed, which he has experienced both defeat and death in the comics, and not by his fathers hands. Also there's no need for insults or holding grudges over past battles or whatever. Why attack the guy out of the blue? Just present your case.

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#122  Edited By texasdeathmatch
And by revealing yourself, there goes another account. 
 
Thought you'd learn something from our PMs. Disappointing...
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#123  Edited By Postacrat

@WINDYNIGHT said:

@Static Shock said:

@TheSwordsman said:

Isn't rock and metal laced rock much,much heavier per cubic foot than organic tissue and bone though?

Because of the proportion of size between the Serpent (whose size entangled the Earth) and the asteroid, that wouldn't be possible.

Wrong as usual Static and if you knew anything about Thor you would know the only one who can kill or depower him is his Dad, but I dont know why I tell you this because from what i've seen you're the same. you got problems static my friend. always have, always will. wonder woman get damaged by bullets that more than enough proof thors will rape with ease. crush her like an egg. enough said. Thor stomps and if anyone says otherswise they're in fact wrong. watch the Thor movie. Only his Dad can depower him.

Actually if this was Wonder Woman instead of Wonder Man Thor would have even less of a chance, wait scratch that no chance at all and that's all I'm going to say about that.

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@majestic99 said:

@a88378438:

Thor's strength has nothing to do with his hammer! Nothing!

Thank You!

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#125  Edited By Static Shock

@Postacrat: @texasdeathmatch: @TheSwordsman: Don't respond to him if he comes back. This is same Terminator_Fan that begged me to let him come back, and now, he's at it again.

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#126  Edited By Static Shock

@TheSwordsman said:

Actually. Arkansas is 53182 square miles and the equatorial circumference of the Earth is 24,901 miles so the asteroid could be stretched around the earth in mile long sections twice and that is only the surface area of Arkansas. Also the asteroid was not flat but roughly oval shaped and therefore of much more mass than Arkansas so it is actually possible and quite probable that the asteroid weighed more than the Serpent as the asteroid likely had more mass and obviously was much denser. as minerals and metals are much heavier than tissue and bone per cubic foot.

My initial point, though, was that density is as great a factor if not greater than size when determining weight although further calculations have proven, at least in my mind, that the asteroid weighed more than the serpent in all likelihood.

Hmmm....

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venomoushatred1001

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@Static Shock said:

@Postacrat: @texasdeathmatch: @TheSwordsman: Don't respond to him if he comes back. This is same Terminator_Fan that begged me to let him come back, and now, he's at it again.

Aw naw, that troll is back D:<

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#128  Edited By texasdeathmatch

Sad.

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@Programmer said:

@venomoushatred1001: NOOO.... I havent been on here in months because i have a life. i have a job, school and a girl then to worry or care about this silly websites with trolls such as your self.

You say you have a life, yet you continuously troll this site, then have the nerve to call me a troll??? Oh, the irony.

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venomoushatred1001

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@Programmer said:

@Static Shock: I will never, ever bag you to let me come back ever again. EVER this is my last account for the night enjoy banning it. by tomorrow i'll have a new one :)

Oh lord...

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a88378438

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#131  Edited By a88378438
No Caption Provided

@venomoushatred1001:

i read thor comic,the thor all strength feats no one feats like this scan,

With quantitative figures, like the serpent, breaking the neutron star weight are not very clear

BM is beat KH,KH is more powerful than normal HY,thor beat HY,but,the KH can beat 3X HY

please tell me,why THOR can beat BM?could you can prove Thor is more powerful than 3XHY or even KH????

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a88378438

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#132  Edited By a88378438

@majestic99 said:

@a88378438 said:

Thor arm westling Hercules and could have thrown the planet out of orbit, without Mjolnir

no prove this is really,not true

just Exaggeration,thor or herc No one can make me sure feat they can do this feat@jeanroygrant:

No.

Laugh out loud, in the so-called

"Thor arm westling Hercules and could have thrown the planet out of orbit"

Never even showed a planet, it is said, is the hyperbole

And Thor and Hercules will never show them with moving planet of power, if there is, I can agree with this scanning is not an exaggeration, and even if it

did not show the planets are pushing,

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

But it is a great pity, Hercules pulling an island all need to struggle

So this is exaggerated.

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czarny_samael666

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@Static Shock said:

@czarny_samael666 said:

King Hyperion isn't from 616 and this also isn't a Hyperion from 616.

I know that, and this wasn't what I was asking (even though the fight itself was in 616 Marvel, anyway).

@czarny_samael666 said:

King Hyperion fought with two Hyperions, blind one and most powerfull we know (the same who stalemated Gladiator), one of Exiles broke his neck, but he recover from that injury. Later Blink opened a protal in his chest and fulled him with sand. His HF couldn't take that damage. After this defeat, Hyperion was left on his own Earth and he couldn't escape from there. This is a sign of depowering.

The other two Hyperions obviously aren't as powerful as King Hyperion. Blink damaged him to the point where he couldn't make an escape on his own. It doesn't mean that he was depowered at the time. Your claim is based on a bunch of meaningless assumptions, and I'm pretty sure that it was never, ever stated that King Hyperion was weakened because of that attack.

@czarny_samael666 said:

And other two things - this KH use different uniform.

So what? Characters make uniform changes over time (and sometimes, there are subtle changes in costumes from artist to artist), and most them aren't directly linked to fluctuations in power.

@czarny_samael666 said:

he also had a problems with DP Juggernaut (later was killed by Man Thing) and nanobots easily worked on him.

Then, it's the writing of the character that's questionable (he was obviously jobbed), not his power level. His defeat against Blue Marvel is a legitimate loss, because King Hyperion was sized up with one of the strongest being in 616 Marvel (and for a while, Hyperion had him on the ropes). Even in battle, Marvel stated that he was not the same as the Blue Marvel that Hyperion killed in another reality. When a character is truly depowered, it is documented in certain books and/or also in updated versions of the Handbook. Black Panther (because the Panther God lifted his blessing from him after he was made comatose and near-death by Doom), Juggernaut (losing the influence of Cytorrak on two occasions), millions of mutants during M-Day (including notable ones, because of Scarlet Witch saying '"no more mutants"), Wolverine (his healing factor, after Fatal Attractions, because of Magneto ripping the adamantium from his body), Moon Knight (because Khonshu lifted his blessings from him), and many others have documentation.

Provide official proof or documentation of King Hyperion being depowered, and I'll rest my case.

1.In opposite to what CitizenBane said - I've didn't say that KH was depowered in 616. 
2.I agree that KH from fight with Hyperions should win with Thor (if he won't use some trick like BFR or this strange matter manipulation that he used on Hyperion-616). I never said anything opposite.I've just explained what gives me the idea that he was depowered. Imagine Thor or Superman got beating so hard that they can't escape from Earth.
3.Just another sign that gives me these thoughts. Now I have two and in situation like that I have to start to consider situation like that.
4.But if have a fight like KH had with Exiles and after this he can't clearley win even a one battle, his HF isn't even close to his old HF and he is shown as a much weaker person his fights shouldn't be considered as a legitemate prove.
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a88378438

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#134  Edited By a88378438

@venomoushatred1001: thor strength = HERC strength,and thor can lift The serpent,but because abc logic can't do work in comic,so,yes,HERC can't lift The serpent

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#135  Edited By Static Shock

@czarny_samael666 said:

1.In opposite to what CitizenBane said - I've didn't say that KH was depowered in 616.

But, King Hyperion's fight with Blue Marvel was in 616 Marvel.

@czarny_samael666 said:

No. King Hyperion was depowered when he fought with BM.

@czarny_samael666 said:

2.I agree that KH from fight with Hyperions should win with Thor (if he won't use some trick like BFR or this strange matter manipulation that he used on Hyperion-616). I never said anything opposite.I've just explained what gives me the idea that he was depowered. Imagine Thor or Superman got beating so hard that they can't escape from Earth.

It's a strange idea. If someone is beaten to the point that they cannot escape, then it has a lot to do with the state of the wounds that they've acquired. It doesn't mean that they were depowered. If you fight someone in a house and lose the fight, but your legs and arms are broken in the process, you wouldn't be able to leave the house, either. LOL.

@czarny_samael666 said:

3.Just another sign that gives me these thoughts. Now I have two and in situation like that I have to start to consider situation like that.

Unless it was stated that his new costume supplements the lack of power you thought that he lost, your thoughts aren't supported by much. There's a reason why Superboy Prime wore special armor in Infinite Crisis, and it was stated on panel. Anything like that for King Hyperion?

@czarny_samael666 said:

4.But if have a fight like KH had with Exiles and after this he can't clearley win even a one battle, his HF isn't even close to his old HF and he is shown as a much weaker person his fights shouldn't be considered as a legitemate prove.

It's not. His character is being downplayed to make other characters look good. Hence, he's being jobbed.

The fight with Blue Marvel was a legitimate fight (and loss) for King Hyperion. You can write everything else after it as PIS if you want.

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@Static Shock said:

@czarny_samael666 said:

1.In opposite to what CitizenBane said - I've didn't say that KH was depowered in 616.

But, King Hyperion's fight with Blue Marvel was in 616 Marvel.

@czarny_samael666 said:

No. King Hyperion was depowered when he fought with BM.

@czarny_samael666 said:

2.I agree that KH from fight with Hyperions should win with Thor (if he won't use some trick like BFR or this strange matter manipulation that he used on Hyperion-616). I never said anything opposite.I've just explained what gives me the idea that he was depowered. Imagine Thor or Superman got beating so hard that they can't escape from Earth.

It's a strange idea. If someone is beaten to the point that they cannot escape, then it has a lot to do with the state of the wounds that they've acquired. It doesn't mean that they were depowered. If you fight someone in a house and lose the fight, but your legs and arms are broken in the process, you wouldn't be able to leave the house, either. LOL.

@czarny_samael666 said:

3.Just another sign that gives me these thoughts. Now I have two and in situation like that I have to start to consider situation like that.

Unless it was stated that his new costume supplements the lack of power you thought that he lost, your thoughts aren't supported by much. There's a reason why Superboy Prime wore special armor in Infinite Crisis, and it was stated on panel. Anything like that for King Hyperion?

@czarny_samael666 said:

4.But if have a fight like KH had with Exiles and after this he can't clearley win even a one battle, his HF isn't even close to his old HF and he is shown as a much weaker person his fights shouldn't be considered as a legitemate prove.

It's not. His character is being downplayed to make other characters look good. Hence, he's being jobbed.

The fight with Blue Marvel was a legitimate fight (and loss) for King Hyperion. You can write everything else after it as PIS if you want.

1.But I never suggested that he was depowered in 616, nor that its matter where he was depowered.  When I've said that "he was depowered" in his fight with BM, I thought about his status (that he is depowered), not action (that someone depowered him in that fight). Sorry if You misunderstand my words.
2.Semantics pretty much, since You're not capable of doing things You were able to do before that battle.
3.I won't lie to You - I understand Your point and I know that it is hard to prove that he was actully depowered. But if I would have to imagine that I would defend Blue Marvel in some battle, for example with Hercules or Namor, I don't see myself using argument with King Hyperion. There is a big difference between person that was present after fight with Exiles and before that one.
4.Since all his powers seems to be weaker than it is hard to accept. A specially that in his last apperance it was shown that he is weaker (because he couldn't escape his Earth) than before fight with Exiles.
5.Acctually even considering that KH is in full power, it should be counted as a tie, as much as BM's fight with Sentry.
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#137  Edited By Static Shock

@czarny_samael666 said:

I won't lie to You - I understand Your point and I know that it is hard to prove that he was actully depowered.

Aight.

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#138  Edited By drgnx

@czarny_samael666: @Static Shock:

Thanks for the clarification!

Is there any way of comparing how strong the multiverse opponents that KH fought were compared their earth 616 counter-parts (outside of how well they did against KH)?

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#139  Edited By Malevolent1

Okay. I'm a huge Thor fan. However, I think it would be difficult at best for Thor to triumph over these two powerhouses.

A few thoughts:

1) Generally, Thor will have better feats. But he has been in way more books than either of these two guys combined. So to disregard the other two based on fewer feats might be a mistake. I mean, if we're talking purely feats, Thor wins this.

2) Classic Wonder Man is just a little less in strength than classic Thor. Could Thor absorb Wonder Man's energy form? Possibly. The big problem with that is you have a guy about as strong as classic Wonder Man in the Blue Marvel (interestingly, Kevin Grievoux, creator of Blue Marvel, indicates Blue Marvel to be just above Superman in strength, but just below Thor...his words, not mine...but that was the intent when he created the character...)

3) For the above listed reasons, I see Wonder Man and Blue Marvel taking out Thor.

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#140  Edited By drgnx

@Malevolent1 said:

The big problem with that is you have a guy about as strong as classic Wonder Man in the Blue Marvel (interestingly, Kevin Grievoux, creator of Blue Marvel, indicates Blue Marvel to be just above Superman in strength, but just below Thor...his words, not mine...but that was the intent when he created the character...)

It has been mentioned on the forums a few times that the Author stated that, but it is contestable for obvious reasons.

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#141  Edited By Malevolent1

@drgnx said:

@Malevolent1 said:

The big problem with that is you have a guy about as strong as classic Wonder Man in the Blue Marvel (interestingly, Kevin Grievoux, creator of Blue Marvel, indicates Blue Marvel to be just above Superman in strength, but just below Thor...his words, not mine...but that was the intent when he created the character...)

It has been mentioned on the forums a few times that the Author stated that, but it is contestable for obvious reasons.

I suppose. All things are debatable. I just don't think the creator's intent concerning the character should be ignored.

On topic, though, I still think (classic) Wonder Man and Blue Marvel beat Thor. And Thor is my second favorite character of ALL time.

Just my unbiased opinion.

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#142  Edited By jeanroygrant

Thor is superior to Wonder Man, it is indicated, showed, and explained in the comics.

For example Wonder Man hits Vision, while Vision isn't even at full density, and hurts his hand

Thor does the same thing to a full density Vision, and sends him flying.

See the difference in physical strength?

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#143  Edited By SC  Moderator

Just randomly throwing out my opinion on stuff talked about in thread. King Hyperion was at full power when he fought Blue Marvel, and the writer is in awe of King Hyperion's greater power than most, but the writer also thinks that the mainstream versions are a bit tougher, than at reality versions, and he did consider it a close encounter (I personally disagree with his depiction, but its more of a writing issue, and hey, he wanted his new character to look good and this was eay way to do it) Thor's attack on Sentry before being taken down by U-foes and Co could be considered a one shot, because absence of evidence is not absence. Obviously no evidence isn't evidence of evidence either, but there is some grounds to consider it (as opposed to proving it) because Sentry's task was to deal with Thor. He didn't reappear after being wacked away. Assuming he recovered off panel is as much as an assumption that he didn't. Thor wasn't able to kill Sentry because Sentry let him. Thor killed Sentry because he was holding back until that point. Sentry could have asked for a cup of brown sugar and Thor's attack would have still killed him. Bendis has confirmed this for all the people who have trouble interpreting his writing style. Its Bendis, I won't judge you. Agreeing or disagreeing with the writing quality is one thing, but narrative is Sentry isn't demonstratively superior to Thor as far as clashing based on subjective interpretation and colloquial terms and expressions.  
 
There have been numerous demonstrations of Thor's strength being superior to Simons. One time Ms Marvel and Wonder Man were working out in Avengers gym and a machine was set to Thor's work out level and both tried and failed. lol Thor is superior not necessary in strength to Blue Marvel, but its a big tell when the creator of Blue Marvel who has written al his feats actually comes out and says that he is of the opinion Thor is stronger than the character he created and wrote in so many issues, and helped define power wise. Hell that writer (huge Werewolf guy from Underworld Kevin Grevioux, cool guy) even just flat out thinks Thor is Marvels most powerful and strongest hero, and that his writing would reflect that. Not that one writer's opinion gets to decide everything but its cool knowledge to know and consider.  
 
Finally I think the duo have this. Well more times than not. Imagine if the best ranked MMA fighter could beat the second and third best ranked MMA fighter at the same time by himself, or even the third and fourth. It'd be lame if Thor was that more powerful than anyone. Only if he start breaks out desperation moves could I see him emerging the v to the c tor.