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Posted by Corvuscomehere (5 posts) 2 months, 9 days ago

Poll: Thor (Pre-Ragnarok) vs Iron Man and Spider-Man (Post-Infinity War): Hand to hand combat (36 votes)

Thor (Pre-Ragnarok) 53%
Iron Man and Spider-Man (Post-Infinity War) 47%
Thor does not have Mjolnir
Thor does not have Mjolnir

Rules:

  1. The fight takes place in the same location where Captain America and the Winter Soldier fought Iron Man.
  2. Thor does not have Mjolnir.
  3. Iron Man has the Bleeding Edge armor.
  4. Spider-Man has his new armor.
  5. The win by any means necessary.
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No Caption Provided

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#1 Posted by Ready_4_Madness (12538 posts) - - Show Bio

H2H Thor would stomp, IM and Spider-Man aren’t skilled enough.

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#2 Edited by Amcu (13564 posts) - - Show Bio

If Iron Man gets his battering ram arms than I'll back the duo. Peter is probably going to die or get KO'ed though.

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#3 Edited by TheTruthIII (2893 posts) - - Show Bio

Thor wins but Tony makes him work for it.

The only thing Peter is good for is a verbal distraction by spouting pop-culture nonsense

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#4 Posted by DrPepperMan (4970 posts) - - Show Bio

Iron Man could likely give pre Ragnorak hulk a good fight in hand to hand (but lose) so I'll say iron man solos.

Spider-Man is fodder here.

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#5 Posted by xZone (4792 posts) - - Show Bio

Stark and Peter

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#6 Posted by Batman242 (10846 posts) - - Show Bio

I'd say Iron Man could solo if he needed to. Pre-Ragnarok Thor didn't have the best durability, but his endurance was great.

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#7 Posted by ThEBeStOfTheBeST (8236 posts) - - Show Bio
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#8 Posted by KanyeCosby (5528 posts) - - Show Bio

I’m inclined to say that Iron Man solos

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#9 Posted by Mr_Shazam0920 (1589 posts) - - Show Bio

IW Iron Man beats Pre Ragnarok Thor with no Mjolnir by himself.

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#10 Posted by xZone (4792 posts) - - Show Bio

@batman242: Thor got some of his best durability feats pre rag. OT: Peter is one of the most underestimated superheroes on the avengers. He has better strength feats than Wonder Woman. Tony and Peter take Thor down

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#11 Edited by Batman242 (10846 posts) - - Show Bio

@xzone: Peter has a better strength feat than stopping Doomsday's strike dead in its tracks? The same strike that was able to completely overcome Clarks own momentum flying toward Doomsday and send him in the opposite direction at the same speed?

Thor got some of his best AND worse durability feats. His durability has been all over the olace, so it's quite hard to say where he is unequivocally.

Let's also not forget Diana was able to counter Clarks own strength in a tug of war, albeit she had grounding at her side.

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#12 Posted by Corvuscomehere (5 posts) - - Show Bio

@xzone: Peter has a better strength feat than stopping Doomsday's strike dead in its tracks? The same strike that was able to completely overcome Clarks own momentum flying toward Doomsday and send him in the opposite direction at the same speed?

Thor got some of his best AND worse durability feats. His durability has been all over the olace, so it's quite hard to say where he is unequivocally.

Let's also not forget Diana was able to counter Clarks own strength in a tug of war, albeit she had grounding at her side.

Clark used one arm against Diana's two and he was still effortlessly overwhelming her.

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#13 Edited by Batman242 (10846 posts) - - Show Bio

@corvuscomehere: Clark was dragging her, she was at least able to resist him. he'd have immediately pulled Peter in.

Go away, whose ever alt you are.

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#14 Edited by Crunch5481 (644 posts) - - Show Bio

Team, easily.

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#15 Posted by Corvuscomehere (5 posts) - - Show Bio

@corvuscomehere: Clark was dragging her, she was at least able to resist him. he'd have immediately pulled Peter in.

Go away, whose ever alt you are.

She was barely able to do anything to him. She can't beat Superman in single combat.

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#16 Posted by ANTHP2000 (19368 posts) - - Show Bio

Thor because it's strictly h2h.

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#17 Posted by God_Gun (24 posts) - - Show Bio

The team

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#18 Posted by Batman242 (10846 posts) - - Show Bio

@corvuscomehere: I never said that she could beat Superman. The point being made was that Diana is stronger than Spider-Man since she was able to somewhat contend with his Superman's strength.

Peter is outmatched unequivocally there.

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#19 Posted by RR79 (6761 posts) - - Show Bio

@corvuscomehere: I never said that she could beat Superman. The point being made was that Diana is stronger than Spider-Man since she was able to somewhat contend with his Superman's strength.

Peter is outmatched unequivocally there.

Her absolute best strength feat is lifting a 29 ton tank. Peter has better than that pre Infinity War with the ferry feat.

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#20 Posted by Greysentinel365 (4805 posts) - - Show Bio

Thor tears Tony's armour apart just like Thanos did.

Online
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#21 Posted by Batman242 (10846 posts) - - Show Bio

@rr79: No, her absolute best strength feat is stopping Doomsday's strike dead in its tracks. Which happened 100 years after her tank feat.

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#22 Posted by RR79 (6761 posts) - - Show Bio

@rr79: No, her absolute best strength feat is stopping Doomsday's strike dead in its tracks. Which happened 100 years after her tank feat.

How is that her best strength feat when it's been argued that he stopped his attack because of the sword hurting him? Think about that. Every single strike performed on her other than that single one, sent her flying away ragdolling her. What makes more sense? That she suddenly got so much stronger that she not only didn't get ragdolled but was able to stop the punch and yet it only lasted for that single attack? Or that he stopped the attack himself due to not wanting the blade to cut him?

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#23 Posted by Batman242 (10846 posts) - - Show Bio

@rr79: That argument never made sense. Every other time he hit her, she was in mid air and had no ground to support her, only the momentum carrying her forward and her own weight. Doomsday is clearly powerful enough stop and overcome both those factors. When she has ground on her side, she is able to do things like stalemate both Clark and Doomsday momentarily.

In order for her to stop that strike completely she has to come with an equal amount of force. I'd understand that argument if her sword and body had been pushed back an inch, similar to when Thor stopped Hulk's fist on the Helicarrier in Avengers 1, but this was clearly a different case.

There's no way Doomsday could completely halt the momentum in his arm that was already in full swing in that short a time. It would make more sense if he had pulled his hand back, but he didn't. Diana stopped that fist, cold turkey right as it was about to connect.

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#24 Posted by RR79 (6761 posts) - - Show Bio

@rr79: That argument never made sense. Every other time he hit her, she was in mid air and had no ground to support her, only the momentum carrying her forward and her own weight. Doomsday is clearly powerful enough stop and overcome both those factors. When she has ground on her side, she is able to do things like stalemate both Clark and Doomsday momentarily.

In order for her to stop that strike completely she has to come with an equal amount of force. I'd understand that argument if her sword and body had been pushed back an inch, similar to when Thor stopped Hulk's fist on the Helicarrier in Avengers 1, but this was clearly a different case.

There's no way Doomsday could completely halt the momentum in his arm that was already in full swing in that short a time. It would make more sense if he had pulled his hand back, but he didn't. Diana stopped that fist, cold turkey right as it was about to connect.

First, no, every time he hit her she was not in the air? That is utter crap. Watch the movie again. Second off, you are saying it makes more sense to you that she suddenly got so strong that she no sold a single hit when every other hit sent her flying. I'm sorry, but that makes zero sense. She never stalemated Clark either. Even when she braced herself and used all of her strength he was still pulling her with one hand, not as easily but still doing so. He added a second hand and pulled her effortlessly. That isn't stalemating him by any stretch of the imagination.

Her sword WAS pushed back an inch when he struck her.

Again, that isn't true. Her sword was pushed back a bit before it stopped.

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#25 Posted by Batman242 (10846 posts) - - Show Bio

@rr79: This is the only strike Diana ever directly contended. She otherwise was being sent through the air because of DD overcoming her momentum. I don't need to watch the fight again, you're going to need to make your case and show it.

Just saying that she was pushed back doesn't prove anything, because I, out of curiosity watched the scene again and she surely stalemated his fist without a doubt. Since you're not so sure, instead of looking at the sword, look at her elbows and you'll see that they do not budge.

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#26 Posted by RR79 (6761 posts) - - Show Bio

@rr79: This is the only strike Diana ever directly contended. She otherwise was being sent through the air because of DD overcoming her momentum. I don't need to watch the fight again, you're going to need to make your case and show it.

Just saying that she was pushed back doesn't prove anything, because I, out of curiosity watched the scene again and she surely stalemated his fist without a doubt. Since you're not so sure, instead of looking at the sword, look at her elbows and you'll see that they do not budge.

Only strike she ever directly contended? I guess to you attempting, and failing, to block a hit with her shield is not directly contending a hit right? Attempting, and failing, to block his heat vision with her bracers is not directly contending against it right? The simple fact is, every single other attack he ever did against her, sent her flying. This was the only strike in the entire fight she blocked. So to you it makes more sense that for a single attack, she was strong enough to no sell attacks that were sending her flying throughout the fight. I'm sorry, but that is ridiculous.

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#27 Posted by destinyman75 (12498 posts) - - Show Bio

Team can give him a fight but pure h2h Thor s way above either he's too durable and stronger to boot no way does he loose here. If Tony were allowed his weapons maybe then

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#28 Posted by Batman242 (10846 posts) - - Show Bio

@rr79: notice that I'm using the word 'strike'. Heat vision isn't a strike, it's a concussive beam with an immense amount of force behind it. You can see clearly that she was strong enough at the very beginning of the fight, when fully braced was able to stop the heat vision in its tracks. It's funny that you use an instance where she barely braced in time to argue that she fails to do stop it.

I, yet again, don't need to watch the fight because I know that every time she was sent flying back, she was either not braced or in the air.

Now let's stay on track with her stopping Doomsday's strike. Do you notice that her elbow moved exactly 0 inches when his fist collided with her sword?

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#29 Edited by RR79 (6761 posts) - - Show Bio

@batman242 said:

@rr79: notice that I'm using the word 'strike'. Heat vision isn't a strike, it's a concussive beam with an immense amount of force behind it. You can see clearly that she was strong enough at the very beginning of the fight, when fully braced was able to stop the heat vision in its tracks. It's funny that you use an instance where she barely braced in time to argue that she fails to do stop it.

I, yet again, don't need to watch the fight because I know that every time she was sent flying back, she was either not braced or in the air.

Now let's stay on track with her stopping Doomsday's strike. Do you notice that her elbow moved exactly 0 inches when his fist collided with her sword?

You really should watch the fight again because you are wrong. But hey, I can see I'm not going to convince you and you are not going to bother to watch the fight again so, whatever, believe whatever you want to believe. Fact of the matter is, even if you were right you would still have the problem of having no clue how much force Doomsday actually put into the one and only strike she managed to block despite getting sent flying with every single other strike. Then you would still have to reconcile that being stronger than holding together a ferry that weighs somewhere in the three thousand plus ton range(can't remember the exact weight). Sorry, but she isn't physically stronger than him, period.

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#30 Posted by Batman242 (10846 posts) - - Show Bio

@rr79: All you have to do is post a clip instead of simply saying I'm wrong.

I even went as far as to watch part of that fight and the scene proves that I'm right. You cannot prove that she or her sword were pushed back and are only using times that she was in the air or simply not braced to argue her being sent flying. It's a weak argument and all you have to do is post a clip to prove otherwise.

You'd soon believe that Doomsday would use less force in a strike than think once she's braced enough can stop it. That makes absolutely no sense for a character who is bloodlusted and beyond this has no mind to consider anything other than destroying his target. What? Do you think he had a split second of sympathy in that moment for Diana because she reminded him of Faora?

All you have to do is prove your points instead of just spouting nonsense.

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#31 Posted by RR79 (6761 posts) - - Show Bio

@rr79: All you have to do is post a clip instead of simply saying I'm wrong.

I even went as far as to watch part of that fight and the scene proves that I'm right. You cannot prove that she or her sword were pushed back and are only using times that she was in the air or simply not braced to argue her being sent flying. It's a weak argument and all you have to do is post a clip to prove otherwise.

You'd soon believe that Doomsday would use less force in a strike than think once she's braced enough can stop it. That makes absolutely no sense for a character who is bloodlusted and beyond this has no mind to consider anything other than destroying his target. What? Do you think he had a split second of sympathy in that moment for Diana because she reminded him of Faora?

All you have to do is prove your points instead of just spouting nonsense.

You talking about making no sense when you think she suddenly got strong enough to no sell strikes that were ragdolling her throughout the fight. That's funny. I've proven my point, just because you can't accept that she isn't as strong as you think doesn't matter to me. Your entire argument doesn't make sense but whatever you want to believe. I don't care enough to bother with it tonight, especially when I have to be up early tomorrow and am about to be going to bed. If you want to believe something that makes zero sense, that's your choice. You can lose credibility over it if you want.

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#32 Posted by Batman242 (10846 posts) - - Show Bio

@rr79: Right, yet again backing out from actually posting a clip and show me where I'm wrong. You've made no progress on the argument that you've proposed because you're undoubtedly wrong about Diana budging from Doomsday's strike and with this, every other point you made fails.

Diana is clearly stronger than you think she is if you came into this proclaiming her very best feat is at 29 tons. Your willful ignorance of the fact that I proposed to you is no one's fault but your own.

Peter can't replicate what Diana did. Fact. Good night.

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#33 Posted by RR79 (6761 posts) - - Show Bio

@rr79: Right, yet again backing out from actually posting a clip and show me where I'm wrong. You've made no progress on the argument that you've proposed because you're undoubtedly wrong about Diana budging from Doomsday's strike and with this, every other point you made fails.

Diana is clearly stronger than you think she is if you came into this proclaiming her very best feat is at 29 tons. Your willful ignorance of the fact that I proposed to you is no one's fault but your own.

Peter can't replicate what Diana did. Fact. Good night.

Yawn, still the same useless drivel without posting anything supporting your claim. You still think that she suddenly got some strength boost, that's all there is to it. You can lose all the credibility you want with that. Bye.

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#34 Posted by sportjames23 (970 posts) - - Show Bio

Maybe we should start a separate “Who’s stronger—DCEU Wonder Woman or MCU Spider-Man” thread?

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#35 Posted by Aristeaus (487 posts) - - Show Bio

Post infinity war? Thor wins.

Peter was erased. He doesnt exist anymore. Thor smashes Tony.

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#36 Posted by Batman242 (10846 posts) - - Show Bio

@rr79: Yawn, still the same useless drivel without posting anything supporting your claim.

Need I remind you that it was you that came to me saying that my position was wrong? It's you that needs to support your claim. Instead of just proving me wrong you just keep saying that I'm wrong. If you don't/didn't care to bother putting the effort in to post clips, you shouldn't have addressed me to begin with. You've wasted your own time. Congrats.

You still think that she suddenly got some strength boost, that's all there is to it.

Strength boost? This was the very first time we saw Diana on screen. If anything, it makes sense that her past feats that are shown 2 years later pale in comparison. Even if we're taking it from your perspective, yes it would make sense that she'd increase power after 100 years. What the hell does 'suddenly' even suppose to mean in this case? She came into the fight no-selling Doomsday's heat vision.

No Caption Provided

This is her very first combat feat in the DCEU that we see.

Immediately after this she sends Doomsday back (when she's already roughly 40 feet away) several feet with her bracelet clash. This is her second feat in the DCEU that we see. Her third feat is her knocking this goliath of a creature off his feat and sends his whole body into the air with a swing of her arm to the calf. You are being disingenuous when you argue her best feats are from her solo film 100 years in the past.

No Caption Provided

There, Diana's elbow does not budge when the fist connects. No amount of rambling and backward logic refutes this clear cut fact. This was, at the time, her current day showing of her capabilities and there's nothing that goes against this.

You need to prove your claim that I'm wrong instead of simply saying it and running around every time I've asked you to prove otherwise. that's not how debates work.

With all this said; Diana> Peter in strength.

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#37 Posted by Batman242 (10846 posts) - - Show Bio

Maybe we should start a separate “Who’s stronger—DCEU Wonder Woman or MCU Spider-Man” thread?

Yea, probably.

OT: I still take the team.

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#38 Posted by xZone (4792 posts) - - Show Bio

@batman242: If you want to say that doomsday was punching at full force there, then that's a low end feat for Doomsday. Diana struggled to lift a tank, something even war machine can do effortlessly.

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#39 Edited by Batman242 (10846 posts) - - Show Bio

@xzone said:

@batman242: If you want to say that doomsday was punching at full force there, then that's a low end feat for Doomsday. Diana struggled to lift a tank, something even war machine can do effortlessly.

It's posts like these that make me never take you seriously.

Both you and RR79 so happily and willfully ignore that you're using a Diana from a literal 100 years in the past to refute and discredit her current day feats. I fail to see the sense in that argument. This was her first time on screen and even when we compare her feats from now and then, she clearly got better over time. I'm not even addressing the fact that she did not struggle to lift a tank. You'd sooner believe that Doomsday has a low showing when this is both characters' involved very first time on screen and their first showings of any capabilities.

If I used this same logic and say that Hulk was failing to do anything significant to Abomination in the face of him being able to knock Surtur, you'd laugh at me, and rightfully so. Hulk got better over time, so what's so hard to understand about Diana doing precisely the same thing? You really do lowball Diana at every given chance.

Do you really think Doomsday, the mindless creature that was solely out to destroy every target he had in sight including his own creator who meant him no harm and was going all out moments earlier when he was knocking Clark around would all of a sudden hold back against Diana when he's quite clearly trying to kill her? Was he not bloodlusted here?

Your ridiculous arguments get more and more ridiculous every day and it's quite weird to see that you can't see just how irrational the points you present are.

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#40 Posted by deltahuman (4513 posts) - - Show Bio

Tony solos.

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#41 Posted by cromulor (1321 posts) - - Show Bio

I’ll take the team here but I’m amazed how an offhand remark turned this thread into mostly comments about Wonder Woman VS Doomsday to try to debunk an argument that Wonder Woman was weaker than Spider-Man. While I think Peter has demonstrated some amazing feats, I can’t say I believe that myself. I’d much rather debate Iron Man or War Machine against her due to more frequent lifting and more versatility thanks to flight and firepower.

On Topic, I’ll back the team because I don’t see Pre-Ragnarok Thor replicating the damage to the Mark 50 that Thanos had to do with his own strength + attacks from the Power Stone to take it out. Without a weapon, it’s also really hard to tell how fast Thor is. Peter has great reaction feats and Iron Man suits have shown to be able to maintain fights at great speed. You can right this off as only a feat for the Mark 40, but when Tony put it on in Iron Man 3 he was able to blitz Killian due to its above average travel speed capabilities being applied to combat speed. Killian does finally manage to stop it but for a few moments Tony was fighting substantially beyond what even a superhuman like him could keep up with. The Mark 50 had some of his better speed showings (and no I’m not just talking about meteor dodging) so it’s going to suck if it could put that into its punches. Also, in Civil War it was shown that FRIDAY can analyze fighting styles and apply them to Tony’s suit to improve his capability against the opponent. If it could do it to Captain America, I don’t see why it can’t do it to Thor.

Tony alone essentially eliminates the speed advantage, is likely the most durable one here scaling on the effort it took Thanos to stop him, and eliminates any skill advantage Thor may have in the beginning by simply telling FRIDAY to run an analysis while he’s fighting.

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#43 Posted by GucciBrick (582 posts) - - Show Bio

@cromulor: it didnt take thanos any effort to stop tony. your ignoring the fact that he was bending over to hit tony which means his punches lost their power. and despite all that, he punched tony just once bending over and he broke through the entire armor and bloodied tonys face inside the armor. thanos also didnt want to outright kill tony or anyone there because it would make obtaining the time gem much more difficult.

ironman, hulk or spiderman didnt hurt thanos at all and couldnt tank hits from him. thor actually tanked hits from him without being koed, and he then survived the massive power gem attack with barely being koed. also look at what thors regular punches did to hulk in ragnarok and avengers 1. his punches were more effective than hulkbusters punches both times.

its not about skill, on one hand you have someone who could survive not only punches from thanos but also the power gem being pressed on his face and large scale power gem explosions. on the other hand ironman and spiderman were no threat to thanos at all and even with their massive combined team effort after everyone took turns beating up thanos they couldnt do anything but a drop of blood on him. note thanos wasnt wearing his armor on titan while against hulk he had the full armor on and the armor was strong enough to withstand beatings from hulk without a scratch, and hulk also failed to warp it or break it. neither tony nor spidey have notable damage output and neither can last long against pre ragnarok thor in a physical brawl seeing what he did to hulk and thanos. tony and spidey can make thor work for the win since they have their speed, flight and agility but that really doesnt matter.

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#44 Posted by WhyZoSerious (1122 posts) - - Show Bio

thor stands no chance here. I thought you'd allowed him to use Mjolnir b nut you haven't, so this is a stomp and I believe Stark solos.

So no Odin force, no Mjolnir, no Stormbreak vs this powerful IM and Spidey? No way thor winning this.

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#45 Posted by RR79 (6761 posts) - - Show Bio

@rr79: Yawn, still the same useless drivel without posting anything supporting your claim.

Need I remind you that it was you that came to me saying that my position was wrong? It's you that needs to support your claim. Instead of just proving me wrong you just keep saying that I'm wrong. If you don't/didn't care to bother putting the effort in to post clips, you shouldn't have addressed me to begin with. You've wasted your own time. Congrats.

You still think that she suddenly got some strength boost, that's all there is to it.

Strength boost? This was the very first time we saw Diana on screen. If anything, it makes sense that her past feats that are shown 2 years later pale in comparison. Even if we're taking it from your perspective, yes it would make sense that she'd increase power after 100 years. What the hell does 'suddenly' even suppose to mean in this case? She came into the fight no-selling Doomsday's heat vision.

No Caption Provided

This is her very first combat feat in the DCEU that we see.

Immediately after this she sends Doomsday back (when she's already roughly 40 feet away) several feet with her bracelet clash. This is her second feat in the DCEU that we see. Her third feat is her knocking this goliath of a creature off his feat and sends his whole body into the air with a swing of her arm to the calf. You are being disingenuous when you argue her best feats are from her solo film 100 years in the past.

No Caption Provided

There, Diana's elbow does not budge when the fist connects. No amount of rambling and backward logic refutes this clear cut fact. This was, at the time, her current day showing of her capabilities and there's nothing that goes against this.

You need to prove your claim that I'm wrong instead of simply saying it and running around every time I've asked you to prove otherwise. that's not how debates work.

With all this said; Diana> Peter in strength.

You obviously don't read what someone says very well. Yes, it was the first time we saw her in combat. However, during the same battle she was sent flying every single other time she was hit. So yes, you think she suddenly got a strength boost for that one attack and only that one attack even though every single other attack sent her flying. That makes zero logical sense. And you claim that she was braced for that attack but that isn't true either, she literally went scrambling for her sword and turned around as he is coming down, that isn't bracing for the attack. She didn't have time to brace for it. I know how debates work thanks, sorry if I didn't have time to go searching up the clips last night. You know, sometimes you are just in a rush and don't have time for that. I don't really have time right now either but maybe later on this afternoon. Now, how does that make her stronger than a person that is holding together thousands of tons? It doesn't. Blocking one strike from Doomsday when the rest sent her flying is A) not fitting with the rest of her feats and B) unquantifiable. You would have to know how much force he was exerting there to even begin to quantify it. That is just simple truth and you don't know how much force he was exerting there. Hell, you probably don't know how much force he was exerting at any time during the fight.

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#46 Posted by GraniteVision (1228 posts) - - Show Bio

Thor

Stronger more durable

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#47 Edited by xZone (4792 posts) - - Show Bio

@batman242: See this is something you don't seem to understand. There are times when a feat does downgrade a character, and there are times when they don't. In this case, it's not really a downgrade for Doomsday because I don't think he's putting full force in to his attack. Why do I believe this? Because he stopped Superman's speed blitz with one punch. I was only showing you the logical conclusion to your argument. If Diana was really as strong as doomsday, and had the powerful weapons she had, she should have soloed, and that's obvious. The fact remains that her best strength feat is still lifting a tank, and that can be replicated by Peter, hulk, and war machine.

Just to recap and make it abundantly clear. Superman overpowers Diana effortlessly with one arm. Doomsday overpowered Clark with one arm. But you think Diana can now over power doomsday? Not buying it

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#48 Posted by Batman242 (10846 posts) - - Show Bio

@rr79: @xzone: If either of you really want to continue this discussion, create another thread to do so. This thread has gone off the rail car enough.

OT: the team wins ultimately.

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#49 Posted by yeimsick (505 posts) - - Show Bio

Thor wins if he does that tornado thing he did to The Destroyer armour.

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#50 Posted by Riddlerfan77 (4516 posts) - - Show Bio

Thor