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Posted by Galactusasssdin (11 posts) 3 months, 10 days ago

Poll: Thor (Post-Infinity War) vs Superman and Doomsday: Lightning vs Heat Vision (61 votes)

Lightning 64%
Heat Vision 36%

Thor takes them on in an energy struggle:

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#51 Posted by dcuwins (344 posts) - - Show Bio

@xzone:

thors lightening cant do this

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#52 Edited by ThEBeStOfTheBeST (10498 posts) - - Show Bio

@oreoghoul said:

@thebestofthebest:

He never destroys the whole building, what?

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In all of these instances, he NEVER destroys an entire building in a "multi-building busting attack." He just cut the buildings and they collapsed. They even say "he brought down four skyscrapers" not he vaporized, or destroyed, or busted, etc.

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THIS is a building-busting attack. Zod's heat vision doesn't come close to being able to destroy an entire skyscraper like how you're insinuating.

I wasn't even referring to that scene..

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#53 Posted by Oreoghoul (1660 posts) - - Show Bio
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#54 Posted by JamesWayne (952 posts) - - Show Bio

@cahddz: all of it is made up. All of it. Thor’s lightning did all that but couldn’t instantly ko the hulk or stop Thanos on the ship? Because consistency isn’t the point with these movies. What looks cool and enjoyable is. So debating feats from different films is pointless.

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#55 Posted by ThEBeStOfTheBeST (10498 posts) - - Show Bio

@oreoghoul: Didn't see the post.

He never destroys the whole building, what?

The building later collapsed. And it did cut through the Skyscraper like a hot knife through butter, and even affected another one (it was shown in the inception of BvS, 1 & 2).

In all of these instances, he NEVER destroys an entire building in a "multi-building busting attack." He just cut the buildings and they collapsed. They even say "he brought down four skyscrapers" not he vaporized, or destroyed, or busted, etc.

I like how you conveniently left out the "in less time than it takes to tell" part. Yes, they were busted, that's what the panels implied. It's quite elementary really.

THIS is a building-busting attack. Zod's heat vision doesn't come close to being able to destroy an entire skyscraper like how you're insinuating.

The gif you posted is far above multi-building busting level... piss poor comparison but whatever.

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#56 Edited by xZone (10341 posts) - - Show Bio
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#57 Posted by Oreoghoul (1660 posts) - - Show Bio

@thebestofthebest: I think you and I have different understandings of what a "building busting attack" is. I don't think that cutting a building in half and then it collapsing is anywhere close to what you're making it out to be.

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#58 Posted by ThEBeStOfTheBeST (10498 posts) - - Show Bio

@thebestofthebest: I think you and I have different understandings of what a "building busting attack" is. I don't think that cutting a building in half and then it collapsing is anywhere close to what you're making it out to be.

No, the scene in question wasn't a building busting attack, I acknowledge that. But the one that's mentioned in the tie-ins clearly is.

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#59 Edited by Rajjar (1768 posts) - - Show Bio

@thebestofthebest said:

@rajjar: I'm referring to the tie-in comics. Where Zod wiped out four skyscrapers almost instantly. Although it was a CGI simulation created by the military, but it was still based on the Kryptonians actual capabilities as stated on panels.

But movie feats > tie-in simulations. Zod's HV never showed that level of accuracy nor destructive capability. Nor could Zod nor any other Kryptonian fly with the armor. Also, statements don't confirm they were all HV blasts. For example, a few panels later, you see the Kryptonian (how do we know if he is DCEU Zod?) using his body. Those skyscrapers didn't get busted anyway, since the simulation Kryptonian cut/flew through them.

I will just call those tie-in statements as PIS, because the general is obviously inflating the powers of an average male Kryptonian, let alone Zod himself. Hell, that average Kryptonian was casually sending out HV that was getting larger than DD's HV when it touched the skyscraper, and DD's HV >>>> DCEU Superman in size and potency. Thor has better on-panel feats anyway. All he has to do is charge a Jotunheim/Sokovia/Palace lightning bolt, and the same effect is accomplished.

And as for your gif, doesn't that prove HV melts steel quickly? Or are you arguing something else?

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#60 Posted by deactivated-5c6891767abb2 (1820 posts) - - Show Bio

By special effects Heat Vision but by Feige outlierish statements Lightning

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#61 Posted by Oreoghoul (1660 posts) - - Show Bio

By special effects Heat Vision but by Feige outlierish statements Lightning

What statements?

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#62 Posted by deactivated-5c6891767abb2 (1820 posts) - - Show Bio

@arthurcurry89 said:

By special effects Heat Vision but by Feige outlierish statements Lightning

What statements?

Like from prelude comicbooks etc. Or xzone's wanking like thor electric cover desintegrates matter despite it never happened in any movies. I prefer consistent feats.

MCU Thor is like CW Flash. Once jobs and once is super strong badass.

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#64 Posted by Rajjar (1768 posts) - - Show Bio

@oreoghoul said:

@thebestofthebest: I think you and I have different understandings of what a "building busting attack" is. I don't think that cutting a building in half and then it collapsing is anywhere close to what you're making it out to be.

No, the scene in question wasn't a building busting attack, I acknowledge that. But the one that's mentioned in the tie-ins clearly is.

That HV beam by itself can't be a building buster - just because simulation Kryptonian uses a blast that cuts a building in half, which can easily be done, and then the building collapses on itself, doesn't mean the beam alone could have created the collapse damage. The beam just isn't an AOE attack. But I can understand where you are coming from though, like say if prime Odin magnifies the Bifrost through a planet, and the planet fractures into many pieces, it is arguable that the attack was planet-busting.

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#65 Posted by macleen (3269 posts) - - Show Bio

Apples to oranges

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#66 Posted by MorbusGrav (1178 posts) - - Show Bio

That wouldn't work at all, the lightning and beams would just pass through each other.

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#67 Posted by Rajjar (1768 posts) - - Show Bio

@macleen said:

Apples to oranges

That wouldn't work at all, the lightning and beams would just pass through each other.

Perhaps destructive output would be a better comparison.

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#68 Edited by MorbusGrav (1178 posts) - - Show Bio

@rajjar said:
@macleen said:

Apples to oranges

@morbusgrav said:

That wouldn't work at all, the lightning and beams would just pass through each other.

Perhaps destructive output would be a better comparison.

Thor

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#69 Posted by The_Red_Devil (4471 posts) - - Show Bio

Thor's lightning.

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#70 Posted by Cahddz (85 posts) - - Show Bio

@xzone said:
@thebestofthebest said:
@oreoghoul said:
@thebestofthebest said:

@cahddz: I remember that quote from somewhere. Anyways.. lmao

>Million tonnes.

>Couldn't even destroy the top floor of a building.

Make sense. Note the sarcasm.

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this sorta contradicts that no?

It doesn't prove it weighted a million tonnes either.

I don't think anyone is arguing they weigh millions of tons, cause that would be stupid, considering Hulk would now be a million tonner...And physics.. I think they are probably closer to multiple thousands of tons

X

Why wouldn't Hulk be a million tonner? His punch against a Vibranium wall reinforces that position.

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#71 Posted by Cahddz (85 posts) - - Show Bio

@cahddz: all of it is made up. All of it. Thor’s lightning did all that but couldn’t instantly ko the hulk or stop Thanos on the ship? Because consistency isn’t the point with these movies. What looks cool and enjoyable is. So debating feats from different films is pointless.

Saying something is made up doesn't prove your point.

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#72 Posted by TheSpartanB345T (3950 posts) - - Show Bio

@cahddz said:
@xzone said:
@thebestofthebest said:
@oreoghoul said:
@thebestofthebest said:

@cahddz: I remember that quote from somewhere. Anyways.. lmao

>Million tonnes.

>Couldn't even destroy the top floor of a building.

Make sense. Note the sarcasm.

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this sorta contradicts that no?

It doesn't prove it weighted a million tonnes either.

I don't think anyone is arguing they weigh millions of tons, cause that would be stupid, considering Hulk would now be a million tonner...And physics.. I think they are probably closer to multiple thousands of tons

X

Why wouldn't Hulk be a million tonner? His punch against a Vibranium wall reinforces that position.

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#73 Posted by ThEBeStOfTheBeST (10498 posts) - - Show Bio

@cahddz said:
@xzone said:
@thebestofthebest said:
@oreoghoul said:
@thebestofthebest said:

@cahddz: I remember that quote from somewhere. Anyways.. lmao

>Million tonnes.

>Couldn't even destroy the top floor of a building.

Make sense. Note the sarcasm.

No Caption Provided

this sorta contradicts that no?

It doesn't prove it weighted a million tonnes either.

I don't think anyone is arguing they weigh millions of tons, cause that would be stupid, considering Hulk would now be a million tonner...And physics.. I think they are probably closer to multiple thousands of tons

X

Why wouldn't Hulk be a million tonner? His punch against a Vibranium wall reinforces that position.

No Caption Provided

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#74 Posted by Mr_Shazam0920 (4137 posts) - - Show Bio

I know I’m not a physics guy, but I would like for someone to educate me on how HV is hotter despite lightning having a higher temperature.

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#75 Posted by Noone1996 (11479 posts) - - Show Bio

How can anyone logically say Superman?

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#76 Posted by Lord_Titan_ (2544 posts) - - Show Bio

@xzone said:
Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

Show me HV doing anything even close to these

X

Good grief, ive got to watch it on blue ray

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#77 Posted by deltahuman (4969 posts) - - Show Bio

@mr_shazam0920:

Temperature is the measure of the average energy of molecules of a substance. Heat is a measure of the total energy of a substance. But since you're not a physics guy, I'll make this simple in another way.

HV is 6000 degree Kelvin in the DCEU. There is no official number on how hot Thor's lightning is and since it doesn't behave like real lightning in many occasions, nobody can definitely say that we are allowed to use numbers from real life and compare it with real lightning generated in the clouds. But for the sake of the argument, let's say Thor's lightning is real life lightning. In that case, it would have a temperature of 30K Kelvin which is 5 times that of HV.

Despite that phenomenal temperature almost 90% of humans survive real life lightning strikes every year because lightning can't heat your body to 30k Kelvin. It flows through you in a split second. A laser beam that's as hot as 6000K hitting you or passing through you will kill you instantly and bisect you in half. In fact it will melt every known element, alloy or carbon composite on earth. HV melted a steel beam in less than a second. Iron Man's titanium gold alloy has resisted being melted by lightning because it simply cannot heat a substance to 30k Kelvin. There isn't much difference between the melting point of Steel and Titanium gold and going by how HV melted steel, it would instantly bisect Tony in half wearing that suit.

Despite the lower temperature, HV is more destructive from the point of view of melting something. Thor's lightning has a greater total energy output though, specially when he charges it for a while which is evident from Sokovia

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#78 Posted by Lord_Titan_ (2544 posts) - - Show Bio

@noone1996: logically an argument could be made for heat vision, but ultimately lightning is still superior

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#79 Posted by Noone1996 (11479 posts) - - Show Bio

@lord_titan_: No logical argument could be made at all. His lightning feat from Age of Ultron alone eclipses Doomsday, Superman, and Zod at the same time. Let alone what he has now from Infinity War.

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#80 Posted by xZone (10341 posts) - - Show Bio
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#81 Posted by Lord_Titan_ (2544 posts) - - Show Bio

@lord_titan_: No logical argument could be made at all. His lightning feat from Age of Ultron alone eclipses Doomsday, Superman, and Zod at the same time. Let alone what he has now from Infinity War.

Eh yes, but he had to charge for that, i doubt causal lightning blasts would be enough to overpower heat vision

But if he is allowed to charge he stomps

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#82 Edited by ThEBeStOfTheBeST (10498 posts) - - Show Bio

The OP says only self-generating Lighting, and not Mjolnir or Stormbreaker imbued with lighting. Why can't people understand that? With that said, I've changed my stance, Thor's lighting is more powerful.

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#83 Posted by xZone (10341 posts) - - Show Bio
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#85 Posted by xZone (10341 posts) - - Show Bio

@thebestofthebest: Could I even get a warning? (seriously, you really should spoiler block that)

X

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#86 Edited by Matthew660 (1586 posts) - - Show Bio

Normal lighting is already 5 times hotter than the sun. Can split trees and only lasts for 125 microseconds. Thor’s is way bigger than normal lighting and lasts much longer.

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#87 Posted by Noone1996 (11479 posts) - - Show Bio

@lord_titan_: Does the OP make any mention of the lightning having to be a casual blast?

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#88 Posted by Lord_Titan_ (2544 posts) - - Show Bio
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#89 Edited by ThEBeStOfTheBeST (10498 posts) - - Show Bio

@xzone: @lord_titan_: Jeez, chill. I meant to put in a spoiler block, but shit happens.

Edit: couldn't spoiler block it. So, I deleted it.

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#90 Posted by Lord_Titan_ (2544 posts) - - Show Bio

@lord_titan_: Does the OP make any mention of the lightning having to be a casual blast?

Nope, but he probably wouldn't have time to charge to the max if he was suddenly placed in that scenario, he would have to keep his distance somehow, with stormbreaker i'd say yes comfortably

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#91 Posted by Noone1996 (11479 posts) - - Show Bio

@lord_titan_: I guess I can see where you're coming from if we're talking about casual lightning. It's much closer than if he charged it up or if we're using Stormbreaker's lightning.

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#92 Posted by SandyMarco (15 posts) - - Show Bio
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#93 Edited by DrPepperMan (6288 posts) - - Show Bio

Lightning has 5x the temp and more force, so....

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#94 Edited by Superhero24 (4748 posts) - - Show Bio

Heat vision is condensed heat energy. As far as melting things, heat vision wins especially since DD and Supes are together here. Thor's lightning hasn't shown anything really impressive with melting objects besides cutting a hole in a leviathan with one shot in the tie in comic. He did vaporize a group of fire Demons and blow up a Leviathan, but those still don't show the pure melting/cutting ability heat vision has shown. As far as overall energy even with Doomsday, Thor's lightning is definitely superior here.

Thor's energy output is more Aoe and pure destruction focused. He destroyed a huge amount of ice and rock in seconds with one powered up lightning bolt. He wrecked two leviathans and a large number of chitauri planes in seconds as well. Vaporized the fire demons in Ragnarok, and powered up IRon man's armor to 4 times the average output it is used to. As Someone calced before, Supes HV produces over 1 gigajoule of energy. I believe he can produce more than that per second, but we can use that as the basis for now. Lightning averages from 1 to 5 gigajoules per strike. Humans and other objects only survive lightning, because it moves so fast. Thor is not only able to produce bigger lightning bolts which will produce more energy, but he seems to be able to control the amount concentrated along with the time it takes to unleash the energy amount.

His lightning blast could very well be waay higher than the 5 gigajoule mark which the feats seem to easily back up. As Iron man's old armor produced over 3 gigajoules per second, and the one that fought Thor had a chest piece that produced significant amount more energy stated in Iron man 2. Thor shot him with enough energy to quadruple his energy capacity. Vaporizing humans also requires around 3 gigajoules of energy, and Thor vaporized a group of fire demons, who are superhuman and fire based lifeforms.

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#95 Posted by Lord_Titan_ (2544 posts) - - Show Bio

@sandymarco: Its a shame cause he can do that casually in the comics

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#96 Posted by JamesWayne (952 posts) - - Show Bio

@cahddz: of course it does, it means creators could do whatever they want, especially in a movie setting where continuity isn’t nearly as important to the audience. Story continuity is, not power levels. Only the comic fans care about that generally. So they just create stuff and scenes that would get the reactions they want from the audience. I don’t think it’s intended that people still debate so and sos power level in one particular 2 hour movie 7 months after the film fame out.

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#97 Edited by Mr_Shazam0920 (4137 posts) - - Show Bio

@deltahuman:

Thanks for that, my good sir.

By feats, yes, the earlier IM armors would be dissected by HV as the Extremis warriors who could heat up to 3000 K were able to cut through the armor like butter.

This could be stupid headcanon, but I think I may know why Tony was able to absorb Thor’s lightning strike as opposed to getting melted by it. I believe lightning is a transfer of electrons, so that’s why Tony was able to absorb without being killed. If you look closely, very small parts of his armor did melt. But who knows?

Anyways, thanks for explaining again. Makes sense.

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#98 Posted by Rajjar (1768 posts) - - Show Bio

@deltahuman:

Thanks for that, my good sir.

By feats, yes, the earlier IM armors would be dissected by HV as the Extremis warriors who could heat up to 3000 K were able to cut through the armor like butter.

This could be stupid headcanon, but I think I may know why Tony was able to absorb Thor’s lightning strike as opposed to getting melted by it. I believe lightning is a transfer of electrons, so that’s why Tony was able to absorb without being killed. If you look closely, very small parts of his armor did melt. But who knows?

Anyways, thanks for explaining again. Makes sense.

Honestly, the lightning should have been able to conduct through the suit, but Tony's suit could have redirected the energy into his power supply.

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#99 Posted by deltahuman (4969 posts) - - Show Bio

@deltahuman:

Thanks for that, my good sir.

By feats, yes, the earlier IM armors would be dissected by HV as the Extremis warriors who could heat up to 3000 K were able to cut through the armor like butter.

This could be stupid headcanon, but I think I may know why Tony was able to absorb Thor’s lightning strike as opposed to getting melted by it. I believe lightning is a transfer of electrons, so that’s why Tony was able to absorb without being killed. If you look closely, very small parts of his armor did melt. But who knows?

Anyways, thanks for explaining again. Makes sense.

You're welcome. The reason why I think Tony didn't die or melt in his armour might have been because the electricity from Thor was instantly grounded and thus didn't flow through the metal for more than a split second which didn't heat it to sufficiently high temperatures.

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#100 Posted by Supermanforever (7889 posts) - - Show Bio

I would say Thors lightning has much better high end feats on panel. However the casual lightning from thor is not sa powerfull as heat vision. But a charged one is for sure much stronger by feats.

Heat vision is quite effective though, because you just shoot it with thought while lightning needs a charge or arm direction etc.

Who has better feats on panel. Sure thing thor.