@akz:
Bill’s not gonna be treating someone who went toe-to-toe with power gem champion
When did Thing fight a Power Gem Champion?
KO’d Surfer
Pretty sure that's classic Thing who was actually far weaker than Thor back then.
constantly stalemate Savage Hulk
Pretty sure Thing gets overpowered by him most of the time
and tank blasts from the multiversal beings as a distraction.
I'd argue Thor was still holding back up to the end as Sif mentions right as Ben had him pinned, and with Thor opting to hold Ben while he calmed down instead of wailing on him when he got the opening. Ben was out for blood and Thor was holding back noticeably for most if not the entirety of the fight.
Just the fact that Ben was capable of pinning Thor and the latter needed Ben to have his attention switched to Sif to recover is already a good indicator of who was portrayed to be stronger in that particular instance. That and Thor requiring Sif's help to restrain Ben, when Ben was already fighting back against mind control and struggled less and less against his opponents.
Similarly here, we know Ben and everyone else involved was holding back considerably
You can't exactly hold back your durability, however. The fact that he was able to knock them out, holding back or not, shows that he had the power required to do that
and Wanda was the only person confirmed to be knocked out when Thor collided with her.
They were both confirmed to be out.
"Eliminating not only our deputy leader [Scarlet Witch], but also one of the few among us capable of doing the Thing serious harm [Thor]". It wouldn't be worded that way if Wanda was the only one knocked out.
Shortly after that we see him standing by Tony watching Ben knock away Wonder Man, which is uncharacteristic a state for Thor to be in after getting knocked out.
Except we only saw Thor not just after Wonder Man was downed, but also after Ben and Cap had a talk.
The whole point of that ordeal was to not allow Ben to leave the building. Cap was the only person standing in his way after Simon was dealt with (the context of the situation and Ben's words ("ya better have enough sense to stay down after I hit'cha!") also means he wasn't merely "knocked away" either, but knocked out or beaten up to the point of incapacitation). Thor wasn't standing in his way (which would be extremely uncharacteristic if he was still capable of fighting) because he was knocked out earlier, either together with Scarlet Witch or off-panel between pages ("and so in surprisingly short order"). By the time Cap and Ben reached agreement, Thor and Tony already recovered.
It also isn't particularly consistent or reasonable for Ben to oneshot Thor while pulling his punches when he couldn't do any lasting damage to him when fighting mind-controlled and morals off for several pages.
Comics are inconsistent, sugar is sweet, this is just how it is. I will agree that Ben OHKOing Thor while holding back is not exactly reasonable (but far more reasonable than what happened between Thor and Ben in Fear Itself) because we know that opponents comparable to Ben or even stronger than him failed to one-shot Thor on many occasions, but he did show the capacity to KO opponents of Thor's caliber on other occasions nevertheless (Wonder Man being a good example of that).
Ben didn't undergo a noticeable boost in strength in the 5 years between when those issues were published to make sense of those conclusions referenced contiguously.
Well he does technically passively get stronger over time, but I see what you mean. On the other hand, Thor never ever got any permanent boosts either, yet his showings against same characters tend to be just as inconsistent.
Multiple examples of Wonder Man being comparable to Thor: https://imgur.com/a/kZlLeVW
Ben did excellent against Thor in Thor #475. Ben KO'd/TKO'd Thor in FF V3:
Other feats include his wins/stalemates with Hulk, Hercules, Super Adaptoid, Surfer, Champion, etc.
@thor-parker: Well even in Blood Oath, there's the thought from Thor saying that in the field of battle, they were equal, which is consistent with Thor saying that in the previous battle, he didn't know who would have won. Herc. But hand-to-hand combat would be something else entirely.
If the other fights, presumably evaluated under the same H2H-being-separate-from-normal-fights standard, suggest that they are equal, how is Thor >>> Herc?
Because outside of their fights, Thor is the one with much better feats and is usually portrayed as the Marvel powerhouse and tide changer, often looked upon by other heroes as the powerhouse, a status and intent Hercules simply does not possess, or at least not at Thor's level and the way he's been established in-universe.
Multiple examples of Wonder Man being comparable to Thor: https://imgur.com/a/kZlLeVW
Ben did excellent against Thor in Thor #475. Ben KO'd/TKO'd Thor in FF V3:
Other feats include his wins/stalemates with Hulk, Hercules, Super Adaptoid, Surfer, Champion, etc.
Thanks for the scan, still not consistent though.
As far as I'm aware, Hulk, Hercules and Surfer have always handled Ben without much trouble, maybe there's the odd instance where they didn't, but the former is true most of the time. Don't remember about Super Adaptoid or Champion.
Thanks for the scan, still not consistent though.
Ben has shown great striking feats- including OHKO'ing Surfer, KO-ing a restrained Savage Hulk, Breaking the champions ribs, breaking the adamantium walls of the negative zone- him briefly KO-ing Thor with a sucker punch isn't too out of the realms of possibility tbh.
As far as I'm aware, Hulk, Hercules and Surfer have always handled Ben without much trouble, maybe there's the odd instance where they didn't, but the former is true most of the time.
Not really. All battles between Ben and Savage Hulk were stalemates that ended due to outside factors (Ben getting distracted by Alicia, Hulk getting shot by Doom's ray, Ben turning back into a human while having Hulk on his knees, etc.)
There's been about 4 encounters between Ben and Herc and 2 of them showed Ben being superior. There was one instance where Hercules cheated during a charity wrestling match by kicking Ben in the balls to get him in a leg hold but that was about it.
All encounters between Ben and Surfer were stalemates, with a couple in Ben's favor iirc.
Don't remember about Super Adaptoid or Champion.
Ben KO'd SA with the powers of Iron man, Mar-vell, Vision, Cap.
Champion was a primordial that easily overpowered Hulk, Thor, Namor, and multiple other bricks rushing him rushing him. His training equipment alone easily KO'd Doc Sampson.
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