The Vizards vs The Akatsuki

@antitheticalopinion: pretty much

@keychain:

nothing you just said countered anything you just said "nuh uh"

Your post is telling me something different. You clearly have no counters.

Look at the Fight between Sasuke and Raikage, Aye sees the MS, and increases his power we see his hair stand up and his lightning gets increases visually, Karen notices and says no Shinobi can match the speed that's coming. That's me "pulling a card" that's fact, and you can't debunk it.

I looked at the fight multiple times. Ay making his hair stand up ? Who cares. Is it stated that he activated some kind of V2 ? No and you still couldn't back that up. Its still Karin btw. And Karin saying that nobody can match his speed gets contradicted in the same fight in which Sasukes reacts to his attack with basic 3 tomoe sharingan. Not even MS.

You legit said "tell that to Kakashi" I'm not putting words into your mouth you're just wrong.

I'll tell him next time I see him. He still didin't know about Tsukuyomi, which is still the only relevant part about or discussion. Nobody was talking about basic Gen-Jutsu.

I've already countered Susanoo, it's made of Chakra Nagato eats it. Post some speed feats for Itachi's Sasunoo.

Itachi can activate his susanoo whenever he feels like it. This could be a mile away or the moment he is next to Nagato. Susanoo doesn't need speed feats, because Itachi already has them. And Nagato has to get close to rip someones soul out. Considering Itachi is much faster than him and already showed that he can deal with the multi directional vision of Nagato's summoing, it's not likely that Nagato gets his hands on Itachi first.

I'll give you credit, you got destroyed and attempted to come back but it was nothing new, just you trying to hold onto Itachi for one last wank.

That's sweet. Looks to me more like you are desperately trying to feed your own ego by telling yourself that. You clearly reached a point of desperation after I destroyed your ass. You ain't winning this one.

@originalcaptain: she said that after he dodged the attack and A increased the speed, you don't know shit about Naruto do you?

Post the scan where it was stated that Ay increased his speed & that he has some kind of V2. I'll still wait.

Because before that he got outreacted by 3 tomoe Sasuke.

@originalcaptain: On my way home now, your about to get destroyed even worse now. Casual fans are the worse.

Oh I can't wait :)

Make sure it's the manga.

Learn what relevant means.

@originalcaptain:

"BuT thaTs JUSt hIs HaiR!"

He uses his Lightning chakra to amp his body, and like any other Jutsu the more Chakra he adds to it the faster he goes.

"Even if he can't follow his movements." the moment Aye got serious Sasuke was fucked, Look at poor Sasuke looking around not a clue where Aye is.

You said the only useful members are Nagato and Itachi, you are wrong, That's relevant.

Yes they are the only useful members, next.

Except they're not.

Well they are. Sooner you accept the truth the easier this will be.

@ourmanuel said:

This.

-

According to feats; Obito > crippled Edo Nagato or Pain > Itachi > Orochimaru > Deidara > Hacchan (Hachi) > Kisame > (Chakra=Reiatsu > Kisame > Hacchan with Samehada and water dom to reiatsu asorb) > Sasori > Shinji > Hidan > Hiyori or Mashiro > others

Akatsuki low diff.

Edit. ''•All at full strength'' Orochimaru with 4 Hokage. Hashirama solostomps Akatsuki + Vizards, lol.

@earendill: I don’t think that version of Orochimaru had learned edo tensei yet. And hachigen just casually decapitates all of them with his kido.

@faradaysloth: trying not to flame but you actually think Obito isn't usefull....

Akatsuki win 8/10

Akatsuki still owns. Lmao at Hachi doing head tricks before getting Genjutsu'd from Obito and Itachi. Obito has also Izanami. Naraka Path and Nagato can revive the whole team, lol.

Nagato Soul Dragon oneshots <3

@keychain:

He uses his Lightning chakra to amp his body, and like any other Jutsu the more Chakra he adds to it the faster he goes.

I see .. So Ay basically increases his chakra, which makes him overall more powerful. His speed & defense gets amped.

You kept saying that he uses some form of version 2, which was never the case. However you were right that Raikage eventually surpassed the speed of Sasuke, but there was never some form of version 2. He just put more chakra into the already activated lighting cloak.

"Even if he can't follow his movements."

Sasuke couldn't follow his movenments, but was still capable of reacting in time and use amaterasu as a defense. Still you finally brought good prove that Raikage > Sasuke in speed. I gitta give you that one.

Obito or itaxchi cant even genjutsu hachigen with the mask on they couldnt even genjutsu kabutoh : P. Basically hachigen can solo this with head lop from a mile away.

Tempted to say Akatsuki, the Visoreds were just unimpressive to me.

@keychain: yep based on everything we know

Akatsuki isn't a match for any Bleach group, vizords stomp beyond belief,4 people casually above Grimmjow and the other 4 comfortably above Ulquiorra

They are actually easily the weakest after the Fullbring upgrade. Tsukishima already had the potential to surpass their power and Ginjo after taking Ichigo's fullbring did that with flying colors.

@originalcaptain: V2 is a slang term for him increasing his speed, something any fan would know.

Itachi is around Hebi Sasuke in speed, which is dwarfed by Killer Bee, Raikaige, and KCM Naruto.

"But Itachi was Blind!" No other Uchiha loses their speed when they over use the Sharingan, not Kakashi, not Sasuke, no one.

Itachi can't beat Obito, or Nagato.

If Vizard Ichigo is involved, vizards take a slight majority, otherwise akatsuki low-mid diff.

@worldofruin6: Shinji confuses them and hachigen either rips out their hearts or decapitates them with his kido

Bleach wank lol

@originalcaptain:

First of, you argue well.. But

Nagato can eat Susanoo, Amaterastu, and every attack Itachi can throw is nullified except Genjustu, which works one person at a time.

Also Itachi isnt going to withstand Shiran tensei with mere susanoo.. He'll soak damage but he'll get pushed no doubt.

Just because itachi sealed Nagato doesnt mean in a real fight he wins.. It does mean he doesnt lose easily anyway or that he could win

These things depends on fight conditions. Six paths of pei would perform better against itachi than Immobile Nagato..

However lets not forget that without Bee and Naruto, Itachi alone would have never destroyed chibaku tensei..

@keychain:

V2 is a slang term for him increasing his speed, something any fan would know.

A slang term is not relevant in a factual debate. The word does not exist in the verse. Its no new form.

Itachi is around Hebi Sasuke in speed, which is dwarfed by Killer Bee, Raikaige, and KCM Naruto.

I already proved that this is just plain wrong. Weakened edo Itachi is relative to KCM Naruto in speed with 3 tomoe sharingan.

"But Itachi was Blind!" No other Uchiha loses their speed when they over use the Sharingan, not Kakashi, not Sasuke, no one.

Huh ? Are you implying that I said something like that ?

Itachi can't beat Obito, or Nagato.

Both debatable fights. We can start all over again. No problem.

@bionar:

First of, you argue well.. But

Thanks mate. I really appreciate that :)

Nagato can eat Susanoo, Amaterastu, and every attack Itachi can throw is nullified except Genjustu, which works one person at a time.

Also Itachi isnt going to withstand Shiran tensei with mere susanoo.. He'll soak damage but he'll get pushed no doubt.

Why can't Itachi withstand Nagatos shinra tensei with his suanoo ? What feats does his shinra tensei have that prove that he could bust through the susanoo ? The only thing I could see busting through it is the big one he used to destroy Konoha, but he is not using it in 1 vs 1 fights, because it requires all of his power. Tendo had to stay out of the fight with Naruto for the majority of the fight, because it completely drained him.

Nagato can absorb Nin-Jutsu yes, but Itachi is aware of that.

Just because itachi sealed Nagato doesnt mean in a real fight he wins.. It does mean he doesnt lose easily anyway or that he could win

I agree. I am not saying Itachi wins. I think this fight is debatable. If Nagato decided to use Chibaku tensei right off the bat he would definitely win, however this would be out of character.

These things depends on fight conditions. Six paths of pei would perform better against itachi than Immobile Nagato..

True. Itachi would struggle with the paths of Pain a lot more than against Nagato. Nagato himself might be more powerful, but alive Itachi is limited & taking 1 Pain body out after the other would drain him. Alive Itachi vs Pain is not a good match up for Itachi.

However lets not forget that without Bee and Naruto, Itachi alone would have never destroyed chibaku tensei..

Yes I know. I already said that right off the bat in the debate with Keychain I had. Chibaku tensei would be an insta win for Nagato.

@originalcaptain: You have yet to provide any feat from Itachi that puts him on Aye's level, Naruto was matching Itachi nothing more he didn't use his full speed that we saw him uses against Aye, which appears as a flash.

It's not really debatable he has no awnsers for Obito or Nagato.

I don't have to prove anything. What you have to prove is that Naruto was holding himself back, which makes still no sense for a lot of reasons. Thats the only relevant part. We can start all over again if you want, but your headcanon still doesn't count. As long as you give me prove, I will concede, but as of right now you got nothing.

It's not really debatable he has no awnsers for Obito or Nagato.

We've been through this. He has plenty of answers.

@originalcaptain: Post a single moment in that Fight where Itachi put Naruto in any kind of Danger, I'll wait.

We have been over it, you said he can use Susanoo, which Nagato eats and Obito just goes through.

He didin't & neither did Naruto.
They seemed to be evenly matched in Tai-Jutsu.

We have been over it, you said he can use Susanoo, which Nagato eats and Obito just goes through.

Don't put words into my mouth again. Don't make this ugly again.

@originalcaptain: Naruto didn't use a single serious Jutsu against Itachi, you wanna know why?

It's the same reason Itachi was never able to pose a single threat to Naruto

Naruto was intentionally matching him so he could talk to him about Sasuke.

Didn't put words in your mouth you said word for word he'd use Susanoo and stab Nagato. It only got ugly because you're arguing with the Manga.

@keychain:

Naruto didn't use a single serious Jutsu against Itachi, you wanna know why?

And neither did Itachi. And even if Naruto would have, it wouldn't have made a difference against a edo body.

It's the same reason Itachi was never able to pose a single threat to Naruto

Naruto didin't pose any threat to Itachi either.

Naruto was intentionally matching him so he could talk to him about Sasuke.

That is not what happened. In fact Itachi was the one who started the conversation about Sasuke. Naruto initially just attacked him after Itachi appeared at the sky. Itachi asks the first question after they already clashed together.

Didn't put words in your mouth you said word for word he'd use Susanoo and stab Nagato. It only got ugly because you're arguing with the Manga.

I used the susanoo argument in a certain situation you brought up to counter your argument. I did not use it as the ultimate argument for everything you brought up. You are putting words into my mouth, because you are trying to make me look bad by nitpicking only that part randomly. Thats basically all you were doing right after you got mad throughout our debate. I stayed factual the whole time and still am.

@originalcaptain: @keychain: guys going at it

@originalcaptain:

Let's stop at your first post because it's completely wrong.

Itachi used his complete arsenal, everything from Genjutsu to Amatarasu, Naruto didn't even Rasegan him.

As for it not doing anything he crippled the Raikage who has Lightning Armor, all Natuto had to do was RS him and Bee could seal him just like that.

The Raikage made Naruto work you could see Naruto trying, Naruto not once had to try against Itachi, he only had got serious when Nagato started using his hax.

@originalcaptain: Naruto casually walked up to them and started talking he didn't just attack...

@originalcaptain:

@keychain:

Itachi used his complete arsenal, everything from Genjutsu to Amatarasu, Naruto didn't even Rasegan him.

Itachi did not use 1 jutsu against Naruto, except for the Kotoamatsukami to get rid of the control of Kabuto to help Naruto out against Nagato.
Amaterasu ? He only used it against Nagato and his summonings after he gained back control of his body.

How are my points wrong ? What exactly was wrong ? Look at your points. I keep countering them with ease. You don't even seem to remember what actually happened.

As for it not doing anything he crippled the Raikage who has Lightning Armor, all Natuto had to was RS him and Bee could seal him just like that.

He can't just Rasenshuriken someone with suanoo. Itachi would simple block it. Rasenshuriken is not powerful enough to bust through susanoo thats why Gaara had to pull Madara out of it for Naruto to throw it at him. Not even Kirin could bust through Susanoo and the destructive power of it is much more devastating.

The Raikage made Naruto work you could see Naruto trying, Naruto not once had to try against Itachi, he only had got serious when Nagato started using his hax.

Naruto was trying against the Raikage the whole time. He just got hit the first couple of times, because he just learned how to use KCM mode. Once he got comfortable and actually improved he dodged his attack with ease. He was already passed that when he fought Itachi.

You are trying to find holes in my argument, but you can't find anything. Stop running against a wall and just accept what is shown in front of you.

@keychain:

What is this scan supposed to prove ?

@originalcaptain: lmao you haven't countered anything yet. Yet you say do.

Naruto had to try against Raikage, he was frustrated in that moment, Naruto wasn't frustrated at all against Itachi he was effortlessly evading and talking to Itachi and not once did he go offensive.

You sit here and you say Itachi=KCM Naruto but you can't post one scan showing Itachi actually pressuring Naruto... Because it doesn't exist.

@originalcaptain: You said Natuto started attacking, he didn't he just walked up and started talking. Smirking even.

This is like the 4th thing you've gotten wrong about the manga.

@keychain:

Naruto had to try against Raikage, he was frustrated in that moment, Naruto wasn't frustrated at all against Itachi he was effortlessly evading and talking to Itachi and not once did he go offensive.

I already explained this to you. He just got hit the first couple of times, because he just learned how to use KCM mode. Once he got comfortable and actually improved he dodged his attack with ease. He was already passed that when he fought Itachi.

You sit here and you say Itachi=KCM Naruto but you can't post one scan showing Itachi actually pressuring Naruto... Because it doesn't exist.

Oh no I am not sitting here and saying Itachi = KCM Naruto. I am saying Itachi is relative to him in speed, because he kept up with him in Tai Jutsu. Overall Itachi is definitely above KCM Naruto.

So Itachi > KCM Naruto, but we can debate this right now here as well. No problem.

@originalcaptain:

And you've yet to prove how a man Naruto was effortlessly dancing around while casually talking is somehow relative in speed.

Naruto destroys Itachi don't kid yourself.

@keychain

You said Natuto started attacking, he didn't he just walked up and started talking. Smirking even.This is like the 4th thing you've gotten wrong about the manga

No I did not say that. What I said was. And I quote.
"Itachi was the one who started the conversation about Sasuke. Naruto initially just attacked him after Itachi appeared at the sky. Itachi asks the first question after they already clashed together."

Which is exactly what happened. The Itachi next to Nagato was a shadow clone. The real Itachi appeared at the sky attacking the team. Nagato warned them & Naruto attacked Itachi and they clashed together.

You just posted a scan before the fight even started and acted like its some proof.
Also what are the 4 things I got wrong ? Because clearly nobody but you is aware of them.

@keychain:

And you've yet to prove how a man Naruto was effortlessly dancing around while casually talking is somehow relative in speed.

Where was Naruto dancing around ? And if anything the talk does prove that they can casually match each others speed, because there was no reason for Naruto to hold back.

Naruto destroys Itachi don't kid yourself.

KCM Naruto ? Make an argument.

Don't know why Hachigen can't just seal them, or their heads get popped off.

@originalcaptain: 1 of the Jutsu he didn't use, he also started the fight, Naruto says next page that he wasn't done talking, and yes Natuto did dance around him they clashed 2 times and and Itachi failed to land anything while Naruto refused to attack back, infact the one blitz Itachi attempted was against Bee who effortlessly reacted and he's slower than Naruto.

@keychain:

Now you are bringing up scans of Itachi using basic fireball jutsus even tho you just said he used his whole arsenal on him including Gen Jutsu & Amaterasu. Good job at exposing yourself once again. Is a fireball jutsu supposed to show me now that Itachi is going all out ? Nice attempt.

Thats what you initally posted. "Itachi used his complete arsenal, everything from Genjutsu to Amatarasu, Naruto didn't even Rasegan him."

Naruto says next page that he wasn't done talking

Irrelevant. Itachi started the conversation. You tried to imply that Naruto was holding back and trying to talk to him, when actually Itachi started the talk.

Natuto did dance around him they clashed 2 times and and Itachi failed to land anything while Naruto refused to attack back,

How was Naruto refusing to attack back when he clearly dashed at him when Itachi was in the air ? That makes no sense.

And Naruto did not land anything either.

infact the one blitz Itachi attempted was against Bee who effortlessly reacted and he's slower than Naruto.

Itachi is way faster than Bee. He moved all the way around Bee, until he was behind him before Bee even managed to make a step and turn around. Naruto has no feats of blitzing anybody on Bee's caliber either.