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#1 Edited by DarthAnt66 (2560 posts) - - Show Bio
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This thread is apart of a larger tournament between ten ComicVine users. You can read the other debates here:

Darth Krayt as of Legacy #1. Darth Tyranus as of Episode III - Revenge of the Sith.

The combatants will fight in-character and with morals on, but beyond that they will not hold back and are ready to kill. They start diagonal from each other at 42 meters away in an indestructible 30 meters by 30 meter arena in the grass plains of Dantooine.

Each introduction can take a maximum of one week to create. Each subsequent post can take a maximum of two weeks to respond. Tentatively, there will be three posts per side. The first post, not including response or sourcing quotes, will have a maximum of 10,000 original characters, the second 17,500, and the third 25,000. Each debater will have a 2,500 finisher.

The debate follows all formal and informal policies of Lucas Licensing as of September 2012, including the internal continuity rankings of the Holocron. In addition:

  • Feats take precedent over directly and indisputably contradicted statements.
  • Quotes are binding and have no expiration date unless directly or subtextually contradicted. For the latter, such a case must be made within the debate itself.
  • All letter or number statistics ascribed to characters from C-Canon sources, including role-playing games and trading cards, are banned.

A panel of three judges - myself, @darthskywalker0, and a third - will decide the winner.

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#3 Posted by ArkhamAsylum3 (3920 posts) - - Show Bio


I'll get to work on my opener then. Expect something done soon.

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#4 Edited by xolthol (976 posts) - - Show Bio

TAEP pls. Good luck both.

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#6 Posted by In-sidiousvader (2536 posts) - - Show Bio



Do you plan on taking it easy on him? if not this will be over quite quickly

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#7 Edited by ArkhamAsylum3 (3920 posts) - - Show Bio

@in-sidiousvader: Lol, Az doesn't take it easy on anyone. And if he does take it easy on me I expect it'll be over quickly for him.

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#8 Posted by DC77 (107 posts) - - Show Bio

To think @azronger ended up facing my inferior brother because he was too scared to CAV his former apprentice and requested specifically to CAV HP instead.


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#9 Posted by mastercilghal (311 posts) - - Show Bio

TAEP. This CaV really interests me.

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#10 Posted by DC77 (107 posts) - - Show Bio

Rooting for HP, not just because he's my brother but because he's the underdog. Good luck to my former master in any case though.

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#11 Posted by blackpantherisb (7266 posts) - - Show Bio


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#12 Posted by Lord_Tenebrous (2263 posts) - - Show Bio


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#13 Edited by Dawn_of_Ages (2527 posts) - - Show Bio

Odd, I thought Az was going to take a break from CV?

Regardless, TAEP and good luck to both.

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#14 Edited by ArkhamAsylum3 (3920 posts) - - Show Bio

Let us begin. Here's my opener folks.

1) Preface

In regards to this CaV, I’d like to start off by noting that this is just something I wrote up last minute due to lack of motivation to post so it probably isn’t my best. Hopefully, subsequent posts from me will be better though. Anyway onto talking about the actual post. My opener will be mainly comprised of a scaling chain so we can get a direct comparison between the two characters and won’t posses much in the way of actual feats for Dooku. Actual feats for Dooku will be included in my next post and the one after. With that out of the way let’s get into this.

2) Scaling

A) Karness Muur

Karness Muur was established to be more powerful than Darth Krayt during the events of Legacy by the solicitation for Legacy Issue 31 (1). Karness Muur was one of the original Exile’s who used the Star Map (a device imbued with the Dark Side which could locate the Star Forge). The Exiles used the Star Map as their main source of power. Ajunta Pall stated that the Star Map was “where our power came from” and that it was The Exiles “oldest secret” which possessed “so much power”. He also implies that the reason The Exiles were stronger than the previous fallen Jedi was because of the Star Map: “We were not the first to fall to the dark side but we had more power than those before us. It came from elsewhere.” And finally we have him suggesting that the Star Map increased The Exiles hunger for power which led to Civil War: “I see your power, your pride. You will find the old place, the dark place, and you will regret it.” Overall it seems The Exiles (including Muur who is more powerful than Krayt) were very much in awe of the Star Maps power which leads me onto my next point.

(1) “But Emperor Krayt might no longer be the most powerful Sith lord in the galaxy. Will Cade and Celeste have another Sith to defeat... or join?”

B) The Star Forge

Both the Star Forge and the Star Map were created by self-repairing Rakatan technology imbued by the Dark Side (in other words they were created in the same way) only the Star Map is an incredibly small device (link) whereas the Star Forge is massive (link) meaning it logically possess power infinitely greater than the Star Map given it’s infinitely greater in terms of scale.

C) KOTOR Revan

At the end of KOTOR Revan defeated Darth Malak on the Star Forge (link) after fighting through armies of Dark Jedi when the latter had gained total mastery over it. Darth Malak due to having 8 Jedi captives to drain could replenish his life energy multiple times over meaning Revan had to defeat him several consecutive times suggesting he is a far more powerful combatant than Malak is even with the Star Forge. This suggests Revan is more powerful than The Exiles given he can defeat Malak multiple times while the latter is amped by the Star Forge’s energy while The Exile's were in awe of the power of an artifact infinitely smaller than the Star Forge.

To establish my chain so far:

KOTOR Revan> SF Malak>Karness Muur>Darth Krayt.

D) Yoda

Yoda is factually established as the most powerful Jedi in history meaning he surpasses all Jedi iterations of Revan including Revan Reborn who is significantly more powerful than his KOTOR self meaning Yoda is also significantly more powerful than KOTOR Revan:

The avatar of light, Supreme Master of the Jedi Order, the fiercest, most implacable, most devastatingly powerful foe the darkness had ever known…

Credit: Revenge of the Sith Novelization

E) Count Dooku

During AOTC while exhausted (link) Count Dooku held off Yoda for 40 seconds (link). The AOTC Novelization notes Dooku “held strong” and was “parrying brilliantly” against Yoda. After the duel, Yoda was noted to be tired by several sources (link) and he struggled massively to hold up a 10m steel pillar (link) establishing Dooku really made Yoda work for the victory meaning he’s likely comparable to or above KOTOR Revan or Revan Reborn putting him miles beyond Darth Krayt.

In other words:

Yoda~Dooku=>Novel Revan>KOTOR Revan>SF Malak>Karness Muur>Darth Krayt.

3) Conclusion

Dooku scales so laughably beyond Krayt it’s not even funny meaning any an all arguments you make are probably going to be redundant and false. I can’t wait for the inevitable Luke, Wredd, Bane, Caedus and Kenobi scaling which I will no doubt have to refute next post.

Your move Azronger.

I wrote this shit in like 2 hours and I know it’s bad. Please don’t judge me too harshly.

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#15 Edited by SheevieWonder (57 posts) - - Show Bio


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#16 Posted by mastercilghal (311 posts) - - Show Bio

Interesting opener. I hoped in something a little bit longer but good work nonetheless. The only problem is that I strongly disagree with what is presented, although I will hold back my opinion since this is CaV.

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#17 Posted by xolthol (976 posts) - - Show Bio

@arkhamasylum3: Quite good opener.... even though a bit quick on some point

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#18 Posted by ArkhamAsylum3 (3920 posts) - - Show Bio
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#19 Posted by i_like_swords (26231 posts) - - Show Bio

"I wrote this shit in like 2 hours and I know it’s bad. Please don’t judge me too harshly."

Oh, you will be judged. Harshly. Be assured of that. 😏

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#20 Posted by dark-sith123 (5033 posts) - - Show Bio


Saying "oh it was rushed, please forgive me" makes you come across as desperate when your adversary hasn't even given signs of life. Doesn't paint a pretty picture.

I disagree with the concluding statement, though; the post was actually pretty sweet. The less positive aspect to it is that only one line of argumentation has been presented, and in the event that it is refuted by Azronger, the entire case for Dooku will fall apart. The last two points could've used a bit more proof, too, especially since there are quotes connecting Dooku to Revan Reborn. Interested to see how Az will respond (hope it doesn't take too long since these debates tend to be short).

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#21 Edited by Dawn_of_Ages (2527 posts) - - Show Bio

Good opener, though I don't necessarily agree with some of the points. Interested to see Az' response.

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#22 Edited by Lord_Tenebrous (2263 posts) - - Show Bio

Interesting. Well done indeed. Typically thought Krayt was better, but I'm more than willing to be swayed.

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#25 Posted by CuckedCurry (1005 posts) - - Show Bio

Only those two knobheads would move it to a forum nobody cares for