The Presence vs The One Above All (BOTH NON-OMNIPOTENT RETCONNED)

Here is the NEW Presence vs TOAA thread. But this time we use current NON-OMNIPOTENT versions of the characters currently retconned. Thanks to the recent Thanos Infinity Conflict scan, TOAA was just freaking retconned. And Mods now agreed that the Presence isn't Omnipotent anymore for some time now. So now we can LEGALLY pit these two characters and I'm proud to be the one to do this matchup since TOAA's retconning. In fact, I'm positive that I'm the first on the internet to make a TOAA VS thread since after TOAA was just retconned to being non-Omnipotent.

The One Not Omnipotent Anymore Above All

VS

The Presence

So now we base everything on FEATS, SCALING, and SCALING TO COSMOLOGY SIZE of both Marvel and DC. Scale the characters to EVERY THING IN DC AND MARVEL KNOWN.

Scale Presence to Lucifer, Michael, Dream of the Endless, Destiny of the Endless, Father Time, Mother Night, Spectre. Pralaya, etc. and to the current size of the DC Multiverse.

Scale TOAA to LT, Eternity, Infinity, Oblivion, Lady Death, First Firmament, HOTU Thanos, Ultimate Ultimates and etc. and to the current size of the Marvel Multiverse.

I dunno why, but I have a feeling they're the same person.

@sungsam: can we scale one above all to likes of pre retcon beyonder and molecule man ?

@supermanthor:We can't scale TOAA to Beyonder because TOAA didn't exist in 1984-1985 and Marvel's cosmology was so different at the time.

You can scale TOAA to versions of Molecule Man in which both TOAA and MM existed in the same Marvel canonical iteration. Like say maybe scale TOAA to Current Molecule Man, but not the Pre-Retcon version.

@wollfmyth209: WM209, you might actually be as well correct.

The Spectre LITERALLY applied "The One Above All" as an alternate name and title to the Presence. So according to Spectre, TOAA and Presence are the same God.

@sungsam: ok

Interesting News. So there aren´t any omnipotents in Marvel anymore?

@caocao: We don't know. We only know that TOAA isn't Omnipotent, but if you read the scan again, LT speculates that upon finding out that TOAA isn't Omnipotent, there might be a being more powerful than TOAA. So it's implied there's another being more powerful than TOAA.

Marvel probably still has an Omnipotent, but it's not TOAA.

@wollfmyth209: @caocao: @supermanthor: @sungsam: ZEN-OH CAN STILL ERASE THEM AND GOKU STILL SOLOS THE MARVEL AND DC VERSE.

re: TOAA. Next panel PR Beyonder moonwalks onto the scene.

Agreed:

@jko1: no

I’ve never actually seen anything that proves that the Presence isn’t omnipotent, unless we’re talking about the Presence after he willingly gave up most of his power.

There is that scan of him admitting that he is shaped by external forces or somesuch. Not sure if that has been retconned recently though.

Batman still wins.

@darkhoudini: Presence couldn't kill the Great Evil Beast during his height of power, and ended up fusing with the latter for instance. He also was shaped by external forces (IE. Dreams of humanity, although JM De Matteis disagrees). Synnar also stated that the Presence wasn't really Omnipotent, just the most powerful.

JM De Matteis however confirms that Presence IS Omnipotent in his view, however this is inconsistent with Presence's other portrayals by other writers and by definition of how many writers.

We already have three pointers from 3 different writers (M. Carey, Alan Moore, etc.) refuting Presence's Omnipotence. With only 1 agreeing that Presence is Omnipotent. What does that tell us? Presence cannot be Omnipotent still unless most or multiple more writers iterate Presence's Omnipotence again. And even JMD is backing away from that since he claimed that Pralaya can absorb a small part of God.

@caocao: lol you are funny

@brucerogers: Yes I know what you’re talking about, still doesn’t prove anything in my opinion, how the Presence came to be has no baring on his power. Also, if I’m not mistaken the writer has said that by “shaped” he meant defined, not created.

@jko1: 100%

Here before the shit storm yeeet!

Newly retconed toaa looses to the presence. The presence is truly omnipotent

@sungsam: I’m not at all comfortable with blending Vertigo titles with the main DC universe, too many contradictions in my opinion. It seems to me that Vertigo and DC titles have a lot of similarities like concepts, characters and storylines, but are fundamentally two different “worlds”. Synnar for example never appears or is mentioned in any Vertigo titles, his existence completely contradicts the archangels’ creating the universe.

TOAA

TOAA is still virtually omnipotent. The reasoning behind the new comic is stupid as hell.

Do you have a source for that?

TOAA and The Presence are randomly not omnipotent anymore? The amount of pointless rectons in Marvel and DC make me wonder how anyone can enjoy such low quality content (no offense), considering neither Marvel nor DC can keep consistent lore.

They were never truly Omnipotent. Nothing is.

@zgtfreak: It's the same guy who wrote the HOTU story. It'll be retconned in about 3 months.

Presence >TOAA

Doesn't a high-balled DC have a higher cosmology than Marvel? If so then the Presence wins.

Also, with TOAA not being omnipotent, doesn't that make the possibility of Pre-recton Beyonder being omnipotent (based off that one statement) considerably higher now? Regardless, I can now comfortably say Beyonder solos now. lol

I kind of agree with this statement. I still like Marvel and DC, but man do they do a lot of pointless stuff.

I curious, when did this happen?

@soratoumiga said:

I curious, when did this happen?

Infinity conflict that came out a week ago. Its a continuation of Infinity siblings.

@zgtfreakAlso, with TOAA not being omnipotent, doesn't that make the possibility of Pre-recton Beyonder being omnipotent (based off that one statement) considerably higher now?

TOAA is no longer 'Omnipotent" on the grounds that Jim chose to give it some bizarre "anti-feat" to legitimize Thanos new power up.

Just because that occurred, does not mean Pre-Retcon Beyonder's "im ominoptent" statement holds any weight. PRB has a lot of showings that would suggest otherwise.

@kilgpmktra: Oh, alright. Thank you :)

Np

GOKU STOMPS

@kilgpmktra: Yes, but there were many theories that he was just playing around. Granted these theories are worthless headcanon, but I felt like mentioning it.

Isn't both has little to no combat feats at all?

@sungsam: you had to make this thread damnit. Lmao.

But just wanted to point out, TOAA and AAO may in fact be different beings....

Further clarification will come in infinity conflict continuance...lol.

But for all in intents and purposes, they are one and the same currently, and presence = AAO.

So, he fights himself. Stalemate.

So Batman/w enough prep can take TOAA?

Stalemate, I guess.

On this site, Batman with enough prep is TOAA and The Presence and MoM.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

Bump.

Bump (I'd like to see some good debates on this one).

I think we can all agree that Mandrakk drew that issue with the Presence...you are all debunked.

Mandrake > Presence

*teehee *runs away so damned fast nobody, not even the black racer can catch me.

@sungsam: what the heck The one above all is always omnipotent

@awesentry: have you read infinity conflict? If not, don't be a knuckle dragging mouth breather saying things that haven't been true for over a month.

I remember the time marvel fans rode on DC fans due to the presence not being omnipotent via his being shaped statement and so, Toaa was declared mostly superior to him because he's the writer, the creator of the entire marvel multiverse coupled with the hotu statements all that lol ? ?

Too bad marvel dissapointed a lot of its fans and granted the DC fanboys wishes.

I think it should be pretty clear that Elder God Demonbane rips apart both the DC and Marvel multiverse with this new updates we're getting.