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#1 Edited by lettsplay10 (20589 posts) - - Show Bio
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#2 Posted by CitizenSentry (12121 posts) - - Show Bio
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#3 Posted by MetatronX (30 posts) - - Show Bio

bump

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#4 Posted by onsipin (368 posts) - - Show Bio

Didn't a fully phoenix-powered Jean lose to Galactus prior to feeding? probably Celestials. I was never really impressed by the Phoenix Force as a cosmic entity

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#5 Posted by mega6382 (1765 posts) - - Show Bio

Scathan solos, One Above All solos, Tiamut solos. Celestials win easily.

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#6 Edited by Erkan12 (8254 posts) - - Show Bio

Celestials stomps this overrated power.

Even Thanos matched with a Phoenix amped Thane, it's not a big challenge to Galactus level beings.

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#7 Posted by WarDevil (794 posts) - - Show Bio

Hard to say. nowadays both have been neutered to the point of Ridiculousness. On paper, the Phoenix Force should win.

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#8 Posted by _KingofLatveria (18365 posts) - - Show Bio

Hostless Phoenix isn't all that powerful

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#9 Edited by cosmic_reign (3314 posts) - - Show Bio

Celestial

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#10 Posted by Chad_Duby (4750 posts) - - Show Bio

A single celestial solos.

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#11 Posted by WollfMyth209 (15844 posts) - - Show Bio

The Phoenix would be rivalled by a single Celestial, maybe two, given it's, at best, on par with Galactus.

The entire race obliterates it.

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#12 Posted by comic_book_fan (10978 posts) - - Show Bio

@wollfmyth209: lol you do know that pre retcon beyonder was floored by the phoenix force and stated he had never felt anything like it in the very same story line he erased all celestials with a wave of his hand right.

lol the true phoenix force is multiversal phoenix force wins

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#13 Posted by somayareece (793 posts) - - Show Bio
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#14 Posted by comic_book_fan (10978 posts) - - Show Bio

@somayareece: yes even the energy bird you see flying around the universe is just a fraction of the true phoenix's power the Rachael summers that stalemated galactus was just a fraction of a fraction of what the true phoenix force could do.

this was hinted at at the end of the dark phoenix saga and in grant Morrison's all new x-men

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#15 Posted by Chad_Duby (4750 posts) - - Show Bio

@comic_book_fan: Didn’t Beyonder give her half of his power? And if Phoenix were that strong, how did its avatar struggle against Thanos level foe, or how did Jane Thor to Odin level character manage to challenge it?

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#16 Edited by comic_book_fan (10978 posts) - - Show Bio

@chad_duby: that was after she found out he had done that and he took the power back. for your next question phoenix likes different avatars better it loves jean and see her as a kindred spirit it didnt care for than it just wanted a host thats why it left him mid fight had it been jean instead of thane should have stepped on thanos.

and as for the other 2 they were outliers to push characters marvel could use in there movies at the time thats also why the avengers won in avx they were at war so they jobbed out characters fox had the rights too now that is over expect that to not be the case anymore odin is a bug to even the universal version of phoenix

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#17 Edited by destinyman75 (13598 posts) - - Show Bio

Full force Phoenix stomps most celestials but the top ones beat her such as scathan, dreaming, fulcrum etc

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#18 Posted by WollfMyth209 (15844 posts) - - Show Bio

@comic_book_fan: Beyonder also made similar comments about Doctor Strange. Baseless statments don't carry much weight.

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#19 Posted by comic_book_fan (10978 posts) - - Show Bio

@wollfmyth209: yeah but strange hadn't just knocked him on his butt

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#20 Edited by felgrim (1117 posts) - - Show Bio

All celestials from all universes combined could take it.

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#21 Edited by comic_book_fan (10978 posts) - - Show Bio

@destinyman75: i would disagree but it's hard too because they have so few appearances most of there feats are implied i don't think there is enough there to say they would beat her but they have feats that put them on the same scale but they are outliers so much more powerful than the other celestials to the point that that i almost don't count them among the others but phoenix stomps the one above all and any of them beneath him lol

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#22 Posted by destinyman75 (13598 posts) - - Show Bio
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#23 Posted by RampageTheFirst (7052 posts) - - Show Bio

Celestials.

Online
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#24 Posted by comic_book_fan (10978 posts) - - Show Bio

@destinyman75: are you laughing at my argument because you think it's stupid .

or did you find my comment genuinely funny

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#25 Edited by Chad_Duby (4750 posts) - - Show Bio

@comic_book_fan: Ok. Phoenix didn’t leave Thane mid fight but the sisters of eternity sent it away. I don’t think Jean is going to do better than Thane, considering she had more trouble controlling it than him.

This sounds like Phoenix has one high end feat and the rest were really bad. So based on this, Phoenix should be consistently around Odin level. Why do you think Odin is a bug to universal Phoenix? King Thor fought on par with old man Phoenix in the future and Odin is ranked around that level.

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#26 Edited by comic_book_fan (10978 posts) - - Show Bio

@chad_duby: he seemed to have better control over it because he didn't resist it's darker emotions but it never granted him the kind of power it did jean thanos put up a fight any other phoenix avatar was considered galactus level confirmed the phoenix force it's self even the universal one is restricted by a host only jean can handle it because they have pretty much bonded on a different level post the scan the phoenix force states it didn't like thane or was getting bored with the conflict anyway and besides that thanos was amped by the power of thousands of gods when he fought thane and was still losing until the phoenix left and again this is the full phoenix force not an avatar it is literally thousands of times more powerful than any avatar

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#27 Posted by Chad_Duby (4750 posts) - - Show Bio

@comic_book_fan: Thane turned to be more aggressive after that. I am pretty sure he was exposed to its dark emotion but he was a better host. How do you know it never granted such power to Thane? When was any other Phoenix’s host considered Galactus level!? Even if it was, then it is clearly an unreliable statement and the write who wrote it must have no idea who Galactus is. I am sorry, but if I didn’t misinterpret your post, you said even a universal Phoenix can only be handled by Jane because they are bonded on a different level, right? You would be wrong by that, Many people did that, even Old man Wolverine. You want me to post a scan where it states that Phoenix didn’t like Thane and got bored because of the conflict?? I don’t know where I could find that.

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#28 Posted by comic_book_fan (10978 posts) - - Show Bio
galactus admits it himself against an early phoenix
galactus admits it himself against an early phoenix

@chad_duby:

reed richards and silver surfer said it
reed richards and silver surfer said it

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#29 Posted by comic_book_fan (10978 posts) - - Show Bio

@chad_duby: yeah iam sure chris clairemont and john byrne has never heard of galactus lol got you lol

also it was hinted durrent the fight i am asking you to post the whole fight between phoenix thane and thanos

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#30 Posted by Chad_Duby (4750 posts) - - Show Bio

@comic_book_fan: Isn’t that Jean? You said any other host, didn’t you? Yes, they clearly don’t know how powerful Galactus is.

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#31 Posted by comic_book_fan (10978 posts) - - Show Bio
here galactus explains it better for you this is when he fought rachel and i know he was hungry before the fight but he is always hungry he clearly states exhausted from battle  not just from his natural hungry state
here galactus explains it better for you this is when he fought rachel and i know he was hungry before the fight but he is always hungry he clearly states exhausted from battle not just from his natural hungry state

@chad_duby:

every time galactus comes up against phoenix he loses every time they are compared they are at least considered equals and white phoenix would step on galactus she is a peer to the living tribunal

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#32 Posted by Chad_Duby (4750 posts) - - Show Bio

@comic_book_fan: That is the era where Thor could fight Galactus fairly. Consistently, Phoenix is Odin level. But it is fine if you will say Phoenix is equal to Galactus because their power fluctuate. But Lt level!? That is stronger than IG Thanos, there is no proof Phoenix would be that strong other than that Beyonder outlier. I will post the scans you asked me.

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#33 Posted by comic_book_fan (10978 posts) - - Show Bio

@chad_duby: there was never an era where thor could fight galactus consistently this is the era where galactus beat tyrant a guy who layed the smackdown on thanos and all the heralds and destroyed several galaxies and shook the entire universe with his fights against tyrant and the one who ate hyperstorm lol this was that era galactus thor is a bug to him and odin is like a small dog to him lol

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#34 Edited by Chad_Duby (4750 posts) - - Show Bio
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#35 Edited by Chad_Duby (4750 posts) - - Show Bio

@comic_book_fan: He destroyed galaxies in statements. Comparing to from 2010 to the present, Galactus was fighting two beings who will end the multiverse when they collide via statement. And Thor did hurt Galactus in classic days.

And this is a scan before Thanos threw boulder at him. I failed to upload it at the first time.

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#36 Posted by _KingofLatveria (18365 posts) - - Show Bio

Thanos specifically stated Thane couldn't properly use the Phoenix force in their fight...

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#37 Posted by comic_book_fan (10978 posts) - - Show Bio

@chad_duby:

@comic_book_fan: Here are the scans.

i will admit i was mistaken i remember phoenix talking crap about thane and the witches when it flew off but that doesn't appear to be the case anyway my other points still stands though

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#38 Posted by Chad_Duby (4750 posts) - - Show Bio
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#39 Posted by Chad_Duby (4750 posts) - - Show Bio

@_kingoflatveria: Thane diasgreed with that and Death was using him to take over the universe. And how did Thanos know Thane wasn’t using it properly?

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#40 Edited by deactivated-5c17990e14f60 (326 posts) - - Show Bio

There are 3 tiers of Celestials. Low, mid and high tier.

Low Tier - The types that fought Galactus that required fusing together to best him. These Celestials are unnamed and probably high-multi galaxy level destruction capable. Phoenix Force should handle these Celestials without a problem.

Midtier - Galactus level beings. Odds are great that these Celestials and the Phoenix Force are on par. They are probably capable of at least 1 to multi-universal destruction capable feats.

High Tier - Your Taimut, Scathan and One Above All, beings with more power than the entire Marvel multiverse that the Phoenix Force stands no chance against.

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#41 Posted by comic_book_fan (10978 posts) - - Show Bio

@babymagikarp: white phoenix could fight your higher ups and the one above all shouldn't be in that tier

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#42 Posted by deactivated-5c17990e14f60 (326 posts) - - Show Bio

I respect your view. I don't agree with it though. I don't think Phoenix can handle beings like Beyonder or Protege. Scathan made them both look like pansies. And Odds are great that Taimut after his ascension was on the Fulcrum's level.

@babymagikarp: white phoenix could fight your higher ups and the one above all shouldn't be in that tier

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#43 Posted by DaSalvadore (212 posts) - - Show Bio

On paper, the Phoenix should be able to beat the Celestials, even as a group. However, on paper that probably results in the entire galaxy/universe the battle is happening in being destroyed.

The only thing that makes sense in the inconsistency of Phoneix Hosts is that the Phoenix actively putting limiters on its hosts so that they can only access certain levels of the Phoenix's power. Which means it's a total "depends" on the situation, the host, and whether the Phoenix has an actual dog in the fight or is going to bugger off if the host loses.

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#44 Posted by destinyman75 (13598 posts) - - Show Bio
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#45 Edited by DiarrheaRegatta (4057 posts) - - Show Bio

The Phoenix isn't beating them all at once.

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#46 Posted by LordOfAllHumans (6742 posts) - - Show Bio

@diarrhearegatta: most of them are fodder that don't even have feats. All Celestials are not equal in power.

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#47 Posted by DiarrheaRegatta (4057 posts) - - Show Bio
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#48 Posted by LordOfFate (1467 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't think we seen the full power of the Phoenix Force.

So I'm not sure who wins.

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#49 Posted by naknoemo00 (147 posts) - - Show Bio

Is this the Pheonix force that just plays around with fractions of it's powers while trying to satisfy it needs that is human interaction, I.E pheonix force in character?

Celestial stomps.

Is this the entirety of the pheonix force utilizing all of it's multiversal energy? Then Pheonix force in a murder stomp.

Battles with the entity itself is just veru hard to do, people should stick to doing battles with different host instead of the entity as there is no real physical entity that is the pheonix force, the one you see on panel is just the entity taking physical form with limited amount of it's energy. The "real" pheonix force is just all energy in all different planes of existence and realities in all of the multiverse, so people should avoid doing battles with the actual entity

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#50 Posted by naknoemo00 (147 posts) - - Show Bio

@babymagikarp:

Scans to show these high tier celestials being above the entire multiverse?