The One above all vs Perpetua

Perpetua has much better showings

You do realize TOAA is literally Stan Lee/Jack Kirby right?

He is arguably the strongest being in all fiction, tied with only DC's The Writer(Grant Morrison's itteration of himself)

And a potential Ultimate Alien X

@yeimsick: so far the "classic" Lucifer has only ever appeared in Vertigo, even though the Endless property hopping implies he SHOULD exist in mainstream DC too (despite that awful New 52 version). the cosmology is definitely wack but I guess DC decided to make these multiverse makers the new "Angels"

Bump

Is Perpetua omnipotent? If she Is then it is a stalemate. If not, TOAA blinks.

is toaa still omnipotent? if so he wins. if not, then he's subjected to the same rules as every other character, which is feats and I'm not sure he has enough to beat perpetua

Originally yes, at the moment in Hell Arisen 5+, no. She is working back toward it. But, even now? Beings like Dr. Fate consider her the alpha and he has fought angels and knows all about The Presence.

Perpetua wins

he appeared in dc, spectre v3

n52 lucifer was just one of his many avatars

If this takes place in the DC cosmology, then Perpetua blinks TOAA out of existence, if it takes place in the Marvel Multiverse, TOAA blinks Perpetua out of existence. So basically it depends on the location.

Perpetua one shots.

Some wankers said that it's necessary to be omnipotent to beat TOAA.

Current TOAA already far below than omnipotent level. No need to be omnipotent to beat TOAA.

TOAA is absolute he is everything in the all of creation including non creation

Perpetua cannot beat him

Hell Perpetua cant even beat Lucifer Morningstar and The Presence who are leagues above her

@redguard1an: lol at what are you talking about. TOAA for the why is this not locked stomps hard. How can you defeat the in defeatable. At the very best a stalemate.

But for now TOAA

TOAA Stomps, and its not even close

@redguard1an: TOAA is the embodiment of all Marvel. Not hype that is just what it is.

@redguard1an: I did not say he was, fact is TOAA should not really be used in battles due to being omnipotent. The most you can realistically ask for is a draw.

@redguard1an: why do I feel your account is an alt to the account that made this thread.

Starlin's dubiously canon work aside, TOAA wins.

Someone call the mods to lock this.

TOAA is banned from match-ups.

Coz he can't lose... he's the strongest character in fiction

@sammypm: That remains to be seen.

@sammypm: so because you said there's not, that's it?

Starlin and Marvel Comics have had a questionable relationship for years now. Besides them now parting ways on bad terms, Starlin made a point of retconning integral parts of the Marvel mythology. That is highly unlikely to stand, and it has been treated by other writers like Cates as not being how he died (BRB recounts that Thanos is dead because he killed him). Given that The End alone was extreme enough to be declared non-canon, the even more extreme trilogy that made TOAA relatively omnipotent probably won't stand, either.

@sammypm: He never retconned anything as far as I can tell, except for the immortality of the elders which nobody complained about.

He retconned quite a few things, including TOAA no longer being omnipotent.

He is just consistent with the older, classic continuity and doesn’t go with the flow.

Except retconning TOAA in that way isn't consistent with the classic continuity, which depicted TOAA as omnipotent.

Frankly he should have more credits than the so-called Vice President who never did anything. It was he, Kirby, and Lee that founded marvel wasn’t it?

No. Starlin was not involved in Marvel until around 1973, as I recall. 12 years after Lee and Kirby kickstarted it.

Bad writers getting jealous of good works shouldn’t make this story non canon though.

The latest series is hardly good. It's the exact same Thanos plot Starlin has recycled for the past 40 years. Thanos finds some super-powerful artefact, uses it, the cosmic entities unite against him, he effortlessly defeats them all, then gets defeated by his own intelligence. It's boring, contrived, and repetitive. The only difference between his runs is the scale. The first was sub-LT, then it was sub-TOAA, now it's above everyone and everything.

Not to mention that the "Astral Regulators" MacGuffin is stupid. Are we seriously supposed to believe that a dual-universal device at best (one exists between each universe) plus the cosmic entities can overpower TOAA and the LT simultaneously?

Then, of course, there's his inability to tell the difference between universal and multiversal, and apparent belief that the LT is a universal force.