The One above all vs Perpetua

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jiggs1234

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  • Who wins and why
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yeimsick

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DC Cosmology is so confusing now, where does she fit in the cosmic hirarchy?

Is she the same as 'The presence'? what about lucifer Morningstar?

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MichaelJulius

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#3  Edited By MichaelJulius  Online
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yeimsick

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Fantaman12

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Perpy oneshots

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cainandrewb

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perpetua oneshots

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MichaelJulius

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#7 MichaelJulius  Online

Perpetua has unlimited control over her Multiverses, even abstract concepts and versions of physics that can't be explained. TOAA does not.

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ShadowRazer24

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#8 ShadowRazer24  Online

is this pre retcon toaa or the nerfed ver?

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jiggs1234

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NWName

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Perpetua has unlimited control over her Multiverses, even abstract concepts and versions of physics that can't be explained. TOAA does not.

Source for this? Full control over all aspects of a universe is omnipotence which im pretty sure perpetua doesn't have.

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MichaelJulius

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#11 MichaelJulius  Online

@nwname: It doesn't make her omnipotent. It just makes her a creator who owns her own Multiverses. Her son made Hypertime. She is much stronger than he is. Hypertime is all DC Canon. Every story, every Marvel crossover. All of it. Perpetua laid the foundation for that.

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Yasindermann

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@nwname said:
@michaeljulius said:

Perpetua has unlimited control over her Multiverses, even abstract concepts and versions of physics that can't be explained. TOAA does not.

Source for this? Full control over all aspects of a universe is omnipotence which im pretty sure perpetua doesn't have.

Many ''non-omnipotent'' characters that have shown limitations have control over physics, physics aspects or whatever.

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NWName

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@nwname said:
@michaeljulius said:

Perpetua has unlimited control over her Multiverses, even abstract concepts and versions of physics that can't be explained. TOAA does not.

Source for this? Full control over all aspects of a universe is omnipotence which im pretty sure perpetua doesn't have.

Many ''non-omnipotent'' characters that have shown limitations have control over physics, physics aspects or whatever.

Only to limited degrees. The user i replied to said she had Unlimited control over them.

@nwname: It doesn't make her omnipotent. It just makes her a creator who owns her own Multiverses. Her son made Hypertime. She is much stronger than he is. Hypertime is all DC Canon. Every story, every Marvel crossover. All of it. Perpetua laid the foundation for that.

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Then just call her the owner of the multiverse. If she had unlimited control/power over it that would make her omnipotent by definition.

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UltimateDarkGod

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Old TOAA? He is omnipotent and he blinkstomps DCverse

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deactivated-5d9a34d34195a

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@nwname:

Not necessary. It makes her omnipotent for beings that she created , not beings that weren't created by her. She has complete control over her multiverse , but the fact of the matter is there are an infinite number of multiverses in DC , she cannot exercise full control over an entity from another multiverse , for example TOAA , Presence's heaven and the Sphere of Gods , Earth 33 , etc. The DC verse is much bigger than just the DC multiverse we're shown usually. The Overvoid > infinite multiverses of DC > Perpetua's one multiverse. But we know Perpetua is powerful enough to be omnipotent within her multiverse at least , TOAA can't even do that. So Perpetua wins.

Edit : Just noticed it was old TOAA. Then this is a close fight , since both are supposed to be omnipotent within their respective multiverses.

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ShadowRazer24

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#16 ShadowRazer24  Online

um.. isn't old toaa like.. omnipotent?

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deactivated-5d9a34d34195a

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@ultimatedarkgod:

No. If this is old TOAA then this is actually a close fight and not a stomp as many would like to believe.

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etriel

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@ultimatedarkgod:

No. If this is old TOAA then this is actually a close fight and not a stomp as many would like to believe.

Why not? Marvel's Multiverse is inferior to DC. What feats could Pre-Retcon TOAA pull to make him not get stomped?

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deactivated-5d9a34d34195a

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@shadowrazer24:

Again, he is omnipotent for those whom he created. Not the ones he did not create.

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deactivated-5d9a34d34195a

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@etriel:

Because what Perpetua created isn't in any way inferior not superior to Marvel , it's like equal. If we exclude Earth 33 , then it includes infinite universes with infinite timelines. I believe Marvel has that too. Then there's the 5th dimension , and then there's the sixth dimension. The Sphere of Gods wasn't created by Perpetua , it was created by Presence who in turn is another multiverse creator. And the Monitor Sphere is the sixth dimension , so it doesn't really count into the multiverse of DC what Perpetua created. I'm not sure about 5th dimension , but I guess Marvel at least has infinite universes and infinite timelines along with every timeline giving out another future. So , if they both have full control over their respective creations , it's a toss up then.

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Yasindermann

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Even if you would ''uncomposite'' DC, Perpetua would still be well beyond physics and mathematics, while TOAA couldn't fix one physical universe.

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ShadowRazer24

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#22  Edited By ShadowRazer24  Online

@yasindermann said:

Even if you would ''uncomposite'' DC, Perpetua would still be well beyond physics and mathematics, while TOAA couldn't fix one physical universe.

this is pr toaa

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deactivated-5d9a34d34195a

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@yasindermann:

OP says Pre Retcon TOAA. Everyone knows that Post Retcon would get stomped lmao no need to bring that up.

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Yasindermann

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@shadowrazer24: Then he is basically omnipotent, if the OP stated that this is TOAA from back then. So he would win.

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BruceRogers

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Current TOAA didn't have any issues fixing a single universe, that is blatantly false. It was the multiverse, the whole thing.

Amazing how confirmation bias works, doesn't it? You have one writer seemingly retcon TOAA out of nowhere and suddenly his word his law. TOAA gets stomped by characters who would be too puny for him to notice otherwise. The fact that at least two other writers still consider him as omnipotent means nothing.

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NWName

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@supermankira: Unlimited means ... unlimited. She can remove the limits of her multiverse (like limits of its spatial and temporal occupation or its transfinity level) and turn it into all there is if her manipulation over it has no limits. Its more like virtually unlimited control over it.

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deactivated-5d9a34d34195a

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@nwname:

Not sure what you're trying to say here , Perpetua's multiverse is obviously infinite , not sure what do you mean by changing it's limits. The reason all the infinite multiverses fit into the Overvoid is that space , time and physics stop existing at such a level. So one multiverse may appear to be finite , but that doesn't change the fact that it contains infinite universes which Perpetua created , it's just that space becomes irrelevant.

And yes she has unlimited control over it. She can change anything , even concepts that she decided to create in the multiverse. She can do anything she wishes to them. Whatever she created , cannot stop her. You need some external agent who wasn't created by her in order to stop her , like the Source judges , provided they're more powerful than her. Or someone directly created by the Monitor Mind , like the Science Monitors.

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Y3kthunder

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#29  Edited By Y3kthunder

Hang on fryman shouldn't the title be thanos above all others

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NWName

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@supermankira: Its infinite but not Absolutely infinite as in outside of all transfinity. A basic example of a limit of her multiverse is it doesn’t extend beyond the Overvoid.

If she can change anything in it she can make humans Omnipotent. Its like i said virtually unlimited control, she still can not go beyond the transfinite level that multiverse has and she can not turn things inside it into omnipotent beings to solo all the “external agents”.

This turned into a semantics debate instead of a battle debate. My bad.

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Artoreus

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Isnt TOAA the God of the Marvel Omniverse, so then doesn't he just basically destroy her?

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deactivated-5d9a34d34195a

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Tbf , was he really even retconned ? How do we know he was retconned ? He had shown literally no feats even before the supposed retcon. Maybe it was just false hype , may be he was never really that powerful , and the top dog is someone else altogether ? ( which is obviously most likely now ).

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g2_

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TOAA stomps hard.

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Iflated3go

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Tbf , was he really even retconned ? How do we know he was retconned ? He had shown literally no feats even before the supposed retcon. Maybe it was just false hype , may be he was never really that powerful , and the top dog is someone else altogether ? ( which is obviously most likely now ).

Or maybe it's PIS, i love how that never came to you as an option, despite there being multiple writers and comics and handbooks that have described him as omnipotent above anything, one writer that literally had a falling with Marvel and after this is never writing any book again is somehow the SOLE authority over TOAA.

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Alsimmons77

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Perpetua tells TOAA a joke about omnipotence, TOAA dies out of shame.

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Voice_of_Death

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If this is pre-retcon TOAA, the version that represents the writers which created all of the marvel omniverse, then wouldn't he win? Perpetua seems to be at a level beyond what we're normally shown in the dc cosmology. Is she on the same level as the presence? Can anyone clarify that for me?

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Y3kthunder

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@voice_of_death: vertigo is published under dc comics however the two are practically seperate enitities only every now an then they use stuff from one another. what most don't realize is that Neil gaiman has the final say on anything that has to do with the sandman comics. In vertigo the presence is the end all be all she would not be on the same level as him

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ProfessorRespect

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The answer may perhaps be TOAA.

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etriel

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Tbf , was he really even retconned ? How do we know he was retconned ? He had shown literally no feats even before the supposed retcon. Maybe it was just false hype , may be he was never really that powerful , and the top dog is someone else altogether ? ( which is obviously most likely now ).

Exactly my point. And you for some reason, had to believe these Marvel wankers when they claimed there was such a thing as "Pre-Retcon TOAA". Don't give them an inch.

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michaelfnshotz

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Starlin series is non canon, going with TOAA here

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MCU-Defender333

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@etriel said:
@supermankira said:

Tbf , was he really even retconned ? How do we know he was retconned ? He had shown literally no feats even before the supposed retcon. Maybe it was just false hype , may be he was never really that powerful , and the top dog is someone else altogether ? ( which is obviously most likely now ).

Exactly my point. And you for some reason, had to believe these Marvel wankers when they claimed there was such a thing as "Pre-Retcon TOAA". Don't give them an inch.

Yet you jump on the bandwagon as soon as one writer decides he's going to be weak as f*ck compared to his old version. The original TOAA was designed to be totally omnipotent.

OT: TOAA wins.

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MichaelJulius

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#42  Edited By MichaelJulius  Online

Perpetua can't do what she does without The Totality, similarly to how TOAA can't do what it does without certain pieces of the system in place. They are equals.

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JwwProd

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Here we go with the Marvel lowballing.

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dami24434

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Toaa lol . spite needs to be locked. DC fanboys makes me cringe hard right now

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green_skaar

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@jwwprod said:

Here we go with the Marvel lowballing.

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NWName

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@artoreus: Not “God of Marvel” but more of a top tier god in Marvel. S/he is not omniscient even in non jim starlin series. But beimg unable to fix a broken part of the multiverse ie regulators is new. He should have no problems controlling his own multiverse mormally.

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etriel

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Here we go with the marvel wank denial again.

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michaelfnshotz

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@y3kthunder: They exist in the same universe now per geilman


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Y3kthunder

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#49  Edited By Y3kthunder

@michaelfnshotz: pretty certain he only said that synder can use dream in his story

Honestly there is quite a few differences between the two verses an not only that but writers lije holly black stated they were seperate enitities

I can point them out if need be

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UltimateDarkGod

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TOAA still blinkstomps this bitch