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#51 Edited by Sungsam (3209 posts) - - Show Bio
@kilgpmktra said:
@sungsam said:

Don't downplay. I can do that too.

I don't have an opinion on HOTU Thanos against Featherine. I said it was hard to scale. Your accusations of down-playing are half-baked attempts to shut me down just because you don't like it when people disagree with you in the slightest, because I didn't even give a formal opinion about the thread's question yet. Your sensitivities over this are a little too high.

If there was any amount of "resistance" than the "omnipotent backing" might as well just be out of this picture.

I explained before that there are different levels of Omnipotent backing.

Moses's staff has magic from God, it backs Moses up, doesn't make him nigh-Omnipotent or whatever. Nobody freaks at that, but if TOAA only wishes to leave Thanos just a bit of power and not care too much, everyone FREAKS. If you get my drift, you can use this logic for yourself.

Being backed by an Omnipotent just means you're nothing more than a sock-puppet of that Omnipotent or you're just a fictional character being used by an Omnipotent. You're fighting the Omnipotent indirectly, and your only hope against that are the limits of the Omnipotent decides if that guy loses or not for whatever reason.

I'm just saying that Featherine has no feats of contending with something that has Omnipotent backing. I'm not implying she'll lose, if anything I just said it's hard to scale and left up to speculation.

You're just proving that Umineko has a better and more legit concept of a "TOAA". All it is saying is that if you past this forbidden plane/creator domain you will vanish and lose your own meaning, which is what should happen when any being merges with an omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent being. Any...Named...Character aren't omnipotent either since any display contradicts it. Which also proves Umineko has a better grasp and a more legit concept of this than other series. So that is a display of power. Featherine is a transcendental being and is not limited by anything but her since of self and operates at the highest possible level without truly being 0/TOAA

I did not prove that Umineko has a better concept of an Omnipotent.

I'm saying that fictions have different interpretations of Omnipotent. There is no law in fiction that says Omnipotent must absorb everything that gets too close to it. You made that rule up. You're the one putting Umineko's God on a pedestal for some reason against other Omnipotents. I told you already if you started bringing Omnipotent vs Omnipotent issues, this thread will be locked.

The concept of Omnipotent God has different interpretations. You saying that "NAW THIS IS BETTER" is like listening to a bunch of Christians arguing whose version of Jesus is more "TRUE". Umineko has a clever interpretation of Omnipotence, just as Lovecraft had his clever interpretation of Omnipotence. These are just add-ons, they are non bearing as standards against other Omnipotents.

Umineko has no better concept of TOAA anymore than Marvel has a better concept of Batman. TOAA is a Marvel character, Batman is a DC character. That kind of ends there....

Nothing Omnipotents do contradicts their Omnipotence. If you are trying to bind Omnipotents to what they should do, and that they must be limited by what you think on them based on one franchise, then why call it Omnipotent if they shouldn't do anything with their power? That means you believe that Omnipotents can't do anything and just do nothing.

An Omnipotent can decide to contradict itself, decide to be Azathoth then decide to be Morgan Freeman. You are in no control over this.

Would you have me argue that the Umineko God's inability and lack of feats to stop absorbing things that get too close to it while many Omnipotent characters before don't do that? As a contradiction of Omnipotence? Would you have me argue that Umineko God's inability to create a personality for itself to project its power over weaker beings instead of being a meaningless Omnipotent become its OWN CONTRADICTION FROM OMNIPOTENCE? No. You can apply your half-baked logic against you, I still wouldn't use it. I'm not downplaying, but your logic (which I don't agree with) can back-fire.

I do 1001% agree that Umineko's God Omnipotent, I just don't agree with these standards you're imposing on Omnipotent characters based on ONE Omnipotent character out of the thousands that exist in fiction.

Omnipotence just means do anything, no limits at least at a scale that they have no provable non-paradoxical limits. It says nothing about absorbing other beings and make them meaningless for the lulz. You're trying to put way too many features to Omnipotents that should not necessarily be. Those add-ons are freedoms of interpretations, they're not restrictions to an Omnipotent's should-be.

Now because of this, this thread is going to get locked soon.

Lambdadelta even states you can tier them through existence.

Tier them through existence? Please explain.

"Whut. We already been over beatrice's catbox. Even a single fragment from the catbox contains infinite realities and beatrice's catbox encompass endless fragments"

Whut back.

Being transcending over an infinite multiversal cosmology does not mean one is beyond death if it gets killed. You're connecting dots that don't do. It's like saying dogs bark because cat litter, this is in zero connection.

You are arguing that anything an Omnipotent does contradicts it. But you're for some reason arguing against my opinion that things that get killed by Featherine are can't be beyond death? These are two completely irrelevant things. Either you take contradictions at face value and ignore it altogether or no.

A character's death debunks the idea it was above the concept of death. It was just non-corporeal immortal, it was never boundless to death as a concept.

Witches like beatrice in her higher worlds views this catbox (multiverse/endless universes/fragments) as fictional stories. While other characters like Bernkastel and Lamdadelta see those characters and their realm as nothing but fictional stories to mess around with. The void like the Sea of endless fragments is above concepts and metaphysical bounds that Voyagers are able to traverse where beatrice's catbox is just among other fragments out there stating that they even restrict themselves in the territories they enter to ease their boredom. So you at least need to be at a supreme godlike level to simply be able to interact with it and everything in it, like voyagers

I don't get it. This is all irrelevant. Godlikeness is just a word that changes meaning depending on franchise.

My point is that Witches below Featherine are not above death nor even above the concepts they claim to be by function.

How could those lesser witches be above death or other concepts if Featherine can stomp them? Their immortality, and their conceptual transcension is merely a relative finite one that works at a certain condition that Featherine doesn't get in the way.

It's the same thing when Dies Irae fans say that Reinhard is above the concepts of destruciton and death but then Hajun kills him. How does that work? This literally debunks Reinhard was ever above death or destruction conceptually. Reinhard's power was always finite relatively, you just need to be more powerful than him, that's all. It's all power level based, Hax is just a delusion.

The whole meta thing, and "above concepts" thing, is really just an alternative to Suggsversing, but without using Omnipotence, we're using BEYOND THE CONCEPT OF THIS, but this other character is BEYONDER BEYONDER THE CONCEPT OF THIS BY INFINITY but then this other character is INFINITELY INFINITELY ABOVE ALL CONCEPTS BY MORE INFINITIES.

There is no character but Omnipotents who are actually above concepts. Any non-Omnipotent is just relatively above certain circumstances of those concepts relatively.

If a Nigh Omnipotent is erased by another Nigh Omnipotent equal to its power, he could simply pop himself back. But if it was erased by an Omnipotent, he's not coming back. It was never above death or existence, it was above the death and non-existence inducement of finite power levels weaker than itself.

If a character was above concepts like death, then the Omnipotent couldn't kill them. But this is illogical.

That's why when someone says a character is above the concept of death or any concept, even if it is god-like already, I still don't take it seriously. I'm not downplaying.

Some things literally just downplay themselves because the franchises contradict themselves.

"WOOH IM ABOVE THE CONCEPT OF DEATH! WHOOP, I GOT KILLED"

I still don't get why fans from Comics, Manga and Anime agree with this logic and not see its fallacies.

You cannot refuse to believe that LT is Omnipotent by statement, then think these obvious inconsistencies and self-refuting character traits are okay, logical and acceptable to you.

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#52 Posted by Gokluma (9012 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm going with Featherine and sorry Thanos but the feats from her is just way too much including the HOTU is like tiny percent of toaa's power.

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#55 Edited by bdelloidgrain2 (1988 posts) - - Show Bio

Both Thanos and Featherine are nigh-omnipotent and quite powerful. However, people I believe overestimate her ability. Matchups like this are generally quite purposeless as both characters have an infinite amount of ways to kill each other. A full on omnipotent character, (such as TOAA, Man of Miracles, and the Presence) would obviously be able to beat her.

So actually, I think it would be a draw...

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#56 Posted by Gokluma (9012 posts) - - Show Bio

As much i like Thanos but has to admit Featherine is too much for him by sheer power and feats

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#57 Posted by Yasindermann (1251 posts) - - Show Bio

Thanos power isn't based on dimensional tiering, it's based on TOAA's power. A small fraction neven got define, so Thanos simply get's stomped, because his power just works on an universal scale.

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#58 Posted by Soratoumiga (3768 posts) - - Show Bio

Featherine rocks his world.

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#59 Posted by green_skaar (12585 posts) - - Show Bio

Thanos with no effort.

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#60 Posted by greenroost (1381 posts) - - Show Bio

titan, very high contest

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#61 Edited by zgtfreak (2210 posts) - - Show Bio

Weaker Umineko characters like Battler and Willard can solo composite Thanos, let alone Aurora.

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#62 Posted by cosmic_reign (3707 posts) - - Show Bio

Thanos

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#63 Posted by Luckenzio (15 posts) - - Show Bio

Featherine does seem a bit too much for him ...

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#64 Posted by Soratoumiga (3768 posts) - - Show Bio

Featherine still tears him apart.

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#65 Posted by Supermanthor (21739 posts) - - Show Bio

Thor

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#66 Posted by ovy7 (3298 posts) - - Show Bio

So I've heard that HotU got retconed to only universe lvl, and if that's true then what's Thanos' strongest form? IG Thanos?

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#67 Posted by kilgpmktra (960 posts) - - Show Bio

@ovy7: Regulator currently

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#68 Edited by Supermanthor (21739 posts) - - Show Bio

@kilgpmktra said:

@ovy7: Regulator currently

the whole story was jim starlin wanking thanos at his best

basically a fan fiction story that a company agrees to publish

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#69 Posted by kilgpmktra (960 posts) - - Show Bio
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#70 Posted by Supermanthor (21739 posts) - - Show Bio

@supermanthor: Adam Warlock too

Yeah he should be between teambuster and a pick herald level but .... smh

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#71 Posted by ovy7 (3298 posts) - - Show Bio

@ovy7: Regulator currently

Is this the one in that run with non-omnipotent TOAA? How strong is this Thanos?

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#72 Posted by deactivated-5cdf8e3e9b353 (646 posts) - - Show Bio

……….Why do people make one sided Spite Threads like this? Read the characters, and you know that they stand no chance. Featherine in a spite don't bump Spite threads like this people it is disgusting.

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#73 Edited by TakenStew22 (2535 posts) - - Show Bio

@supermanthor said:
@kilgpmktra said:

@ovy7: Regulator currently

the whole story was jim starlin wanking thanos at his best

basically a fan fiction story that a company agrees to publish

Don't you dare disrespect Starlin.

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#74 Edited by TakenStew22 (2535 posts) - - Show Bio

Also, when was HOTU Thanos retconed? First TOAA, now HOTU? Jesus Marvel...

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#75 Posted by deactivated-5cdf8e3e9b353 (646 posts) - - Show Bio

Also, when was HOTU Thanos retconed? First TOAA, now HOTU? Jesus Marvel...

it was recently, But at this time Marvel is pretty much fodder level.

They did this for a reason.

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#76 Posted by TakenStew22 (2535 posts) - - Show Bio

@mygod101 said:
@takenstew22 said:

Also, when was HOTU Thanos retconed? First TOAA, now HOTU? Jesus Marvel...

it was recently, But at this time Marvel is pretty much fodder level.

They did this for a reason.

How come?

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#77 Edited by cosmic_reign (3707 posts) - - Show Bio

HOTU may have been retconned into a Celestial artifact.

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#78 Posted by Shintoki (767 posts) - - Show Bio

HOTU may have been retconned into a Celestial artifact.

@mygod101 said:
@takenstew22 said:

Also, when was HOTU Thanos retconed? First TOAA, now HOTU? Jesus Marvel...

it was recently, But at this time Marvel is pretty much fodder level.

They did this for a reason.

How come?

Marvel's Executive Editor Tom Brevoort has stated on his Tumblr blog that "Marvel: The End" (and all other "The End" series) is not in any way a part of the official Marvel continuity

scratch that. HOTU was just a wet dream for the titan

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#79 Posted by deactivated-5cdf8e3e9b353 (646 posts) - - Show Bio

@mygod101 said:
@takenstew22 said:

Also, when was HOTU Thanos retconed? First TOAA, now HOTU? Jesus Marvel...

it was recently, But at this time Marvel is pretty much fodder level.

They did this for a reason.

How come?

They Recton Beyonders, killed off LT, and took away TOAA significant. The next logical step for them to do is start over. Which they are doing, as of right now it makes more sense this way. Marvel was always convoluted. Now, they can simplify it better.

I mean, they lost their omnipotent. Can make the story better and simplify, It sounds like a win-win to me.

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#80 Posted by TakenStew22 (2535 posts) - - Show Bio

@mygod101: @shintoki: Oh, I knew they retconed the Beyonder and killed LT, just didn't know why they would retcon TOAA and HOTU Thanos.

I hate how Marvel has handled their characters recently. If it's for a good story then that's good, but I just don't wanna see Hulk one-shotting Thor everytime.

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#81 Posted by Supermanthor (21739 posts) - - Show Bio
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#82 Posted by TakenStew22 (2535 posts) - - Show Bio
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#83 Posted by Supermanthor (21739 posts) - - Show Bio
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#84 Posted by TakenStew22 (2535 posts) - - Show Bio
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#85 Edited by Rothschild_Banker (66 posts) - - Show Bio

Still Thanos. At least, before all the retcons.

Before the retcons, the Heart of the Universe was basically a portion of indeterminant inaccessible power that was the Omnipotent TOAA.

Adding more and more "infinities" will not do anything. To indeterminant inaccessible power.

No Caption Provided

Currently though? It is off because TOAA is portrayed as supreme/Omnipotent in Deadpool then not in the Starlin story.

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#86 Edited by TakenStew22 (2535 posts) - - Show Bio

@rothschild_banker: How powerful is FAA anyway? Is she Multiversal, Outerversal, Omniversal, etc? Also, since this is composite Thanos, the IG and Cosmic Cube could possibly give him some extra power.

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#87 Edited by Rothschild_Banker (66 posts) - - Show Bio

@takenstew22 said:

@rothschild_banker: How powerful is FAA anyway? Is she Multiversal, Outerversal, Omniversal, etc? Also, since this is composite Thanos, the IG and Cosmic Cube could possibly give him some extra power.

The Cosmology of Umineko works in that there are multiple different layers, with a ladder connecting to- cutting through those layers in a hierarchal structure infinitely stretching hierarchy from the Human Multiverse as the lowest to the Creator's Domain/Multiverse at the top and Featherine is next to the highest level. Infinite Levels.

Since many people interpret Umineko's Cosmology, when you take sources and different people I know define it differently.

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#88 Edited by Supermanthor (21739 posts) - - Show Bio

@rothschild_banker said:

Since many people interpret Umineko's Cosmology, when you take sources and different people I know define it differently.

who umineko writers or someone else ?

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#89 Posted by TakenStew22 (2535 posts) - - Show Bio
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#90 Posted by Rothschild_Banker (66 posts) - - Show Bio

@takenstew22: I gave you the base facts about Umineko that I know about. All these things like Outerverse, Omniverse, Above Infinite-D are secondary superficial additive interpretations found in battle boards only.

You should analyze with a base facts mentality to anything thrown at you first. Steer clear of everything, before making the same mistakes VSBattles did.

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#91 Edited by TakenStew22 (2535 posts) - - Show Bio

@rothschild_banker: Thanks. And don't worry, I know how inaccurate VSBattles can be sometimes.

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#92 Edited by Supermanthor (21739 posts) - - Show Bio

@rothschild_banker: hey just wanted to know is featherine still top dog when it comes to non omnipotent characters in japans fiction ?

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#93 Posted by Amonfire1776 (3175 posts) - - Show Bio

Draw with HOTU Thanos

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#94 Posted by Yasindermann (1251 posts) - - Show Bio

Retconned Thanos, who is just universal, would get stomped. But before the retcon, Thanos had basically a small fraction of TOAA, so a small fraction of TRULY infinite. Adding levels of infinities wouldn't do much here.

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#95 Edited by zgtfreak (2210 posts) - - Show Bio

@supermanthor said:

@rothschild_banker: hey just wanted is featherine still top dog when it comes to non omnipotent characters in japans fiction ?

Well True Potential Beatrice (who is also from Umineko) should be a bit above her I believe.

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#96 Posted by Supermanthor (21739 posts) - - Show Bio
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#97 Edited by kilgpmktra (960 posts) - - Show Bio

@yasindermann:But before the retcon, Thanos had basically a small fraction of TOAA, so a small fraction of TRULY infinite. Adding levels of infinities wouldn't do much here.

@rothschild_bankerBefore the retcons, the Heart of the Universe was basically a portion of indeterminant inaccessible power that was the Omnipotent TOAA.

Was HOTU actually only a small amount of Above all others power though? All it said was in "The End" was that the celestial order discovered a very powerful artifact and they were the initial ones to use its power with some odd instrumentation. Akhenaten also utilized its power to restore Egypt to its previous brilliance.

Thanos and Genis Vell found the artifact and Thanos had the power to master it

No Caption Provided

and was able to beat Akhenaten and the celestial order (who likewise had this power) and the remainder of the universe in the wake of experiencing "omni-reality" and understanding the universe was basically doomed and must be re-done. He did have an interesting discussion with Eternity though which is what i'm expecting you're talking about.

In "Inifinity Finale" the comic where everybody says HOTU got retconned, never really implied HOTU being TOAA's power. Thanos said that he got a look at TOAA's point of view due to encountering omni-reality by being the supreme being of the universe and that's it. They throw around the word "omnipotence" a lot, but it doesn't seem anymore "omnipotent" than what a regulator or any other supreme artifact makes you.

Currently though? It is off because TOAA is portrayed as supreme/Omnipotent in Deadpool then not in the Starlin story.

In Deadpool he's portrayed as Jack Kirby like in Fantastic Four which is way beyond how TOAA was portrayed in any other storyline especially starlin's. In starlin stories, he's portrayed as a legit character in Marvel who can't even fix a multiversal imbalance. In ultimates, he was an observer of what was happening to the multiverse. In incredible hulk, he had an evil counterpart which the writers confirmed to be true. In deadpool he's potrayed as Jack.

It seems writers don't really know what they want to do with him.

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#98 Edited by Rothschild_Banker (66 posts) - - Show Bio

@supermanthor said:

@rothschild_banker: hey just wanted to know is featherine still top dog when it comes to non omnipotent characters in japans fiction ?

I actually at once believed that LOI would've been able to stomp Featherine going by description, she ruled infinite different infinitely layered hierarchies in which each of the levels are separated by literally inaccessible axioms to the point that each of these layers can be beyond imagining, beyond infinite dimensions in each of these realms.

But that was an NLF, and stated by a character with questionable credibility.

That's kind of the equivalent of saying, that because 5-D Imps in DC view the lower Multiverse as like comic book fiction, therefore Mxy can rewrite the lower Multiverse of DC to beyond Infinite-D below him since it is easy rewriting any story to his perspective as easy it is for us to write any Infinite-D fiction.

But these are valid speculations, but huge NLFs that murder the point of cosmology feats.

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#99 Posted by Supermanthor (21739 posts) - - Show Bio
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#100 Posted by deactivated-5cdf8e3e9b353 (646 posts) - - Show Bio

@rothschild_banker: How powerful is FAA anyway? Is she Multiversal, Outerversal, Omniversal, etc? Also, since this is composite Thanos, the IG and Cosmic Cube could possibly give him some extra power.

Just know she is powerful enough to Solo Marvel casually.

She had reached the absolute top of the cosmology and met with god. This is why she solos, Because she managed to survive the Creator, the Being that all meet at the end of there journey, and get erased. When you meet the creator you lose your sense of self and your idea of being. GOD in her verse=OG TOAA, the fact she survived seeing her creator, with a memory Device it saved her from getting completely obliterated.

This is a feat no one in Marvel can do.