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#1 Edited by HATSoffMELO (2555 posts) - - Show Bio
No Caption Provided

VS

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  • the Mad Titan is composite (Infinity Gauntlet Cosmic Cube Heart of the Universe Post absorbing the Abstracts and the Living Tribuna and everything else...........l)

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#3 Posted by lightning46 (14 posts) - - Show Bio

Discrepancy Featherine wins in one move.

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#4 Edited by ovy7 (3103 posts) - - Show Bio

Featherine takes this.

Also, why bump this?

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#5 Edited by FullMetalEmprah (4735 posts) - - Show Bio

Featherine.

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#6 Posted by maxxc10X (476 posts) - - Show Bio
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#7 Posted by Voice_of_Death (641 posts) - - Show Bio

Featherine destroys thanos.

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#8 Posted by Standardized (1502 posts) - - Show Bio

Hotu thanos stomps.

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#9 Posted by Voice_of_Death (641 posts) - - Show Bio

Hotu thanos stomps.

Howww in the world does he do that ?

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#10 Posted by Standardized (1502 posts) - - Show Bio
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#11 Posted by Theorder14 (2911 posts) - - Show Bio

@standardized:physical strenght doesn't really mean anything to Featherine though. Is there any feat in particular you want to point out that makes Thanos more powerful than Featherine?

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#12 Posted by lightning46 (14 posts) - - Show Bio

With Thanos to do something similar

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#13 Posted by Kcsupes (235 posts) - - Show Bio

Stalemate or Featherine wins.

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#14 Edited by CRUSHYOURENEMIES (2577 posts) - - Show Bio

With Thanos to do something similar

No Caption Provided

composite thanos is a ridiculously powerful time traveling entity.

he goes back in time and beats you silly for creating such a spite

@jashro44

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#15 Posted by Standardized (1502 posts) - - Show Bio

@standardized:physical strenght doesn't really mean anything to Featherine though. Is there any feat in particular you want to point out that makes Thanos more powerful than Featherine?

Not talking about physical strength.

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#16 Posted by Theorder14 (2911 posts) - - Show Bio
@theorder14 said:

@standardized:physical strenght doesn't really mean anything to Featherine though. Is there any feat in particular you want to point out that makes Thanos more powerful than Featherine?

Not talking about physical strength.

Ok so what has he done that makes him far more powerful than Featherine?

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#17 Edited by ovy7 (3103 posts) - - Show Bio

@crushyourenemies said:
@lightning46 said:

With Thanos to do something similar

No Caption Provided

composite thanos is a ridiculously powerful time traveling entity.

he goes back in time and beats you silly for creating such a spite

@jashro44

Maybe, but in that scan Featherine didn't stop the time, she stopped the actual plot/narrative and after that, she edited it and killed the character using narrative.

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#18 Edited by kilgpmktra (888 posts) - - Show Bio

@crushyourenemies said:
@lightning46 said:

With Thanos to do something similar

No Caption Provided

composite thanos is a ridiculously powerful time traveling entity.

he goes back in time and beats you silly for creating such a spite

@jashro44

Hotu Thanos is the only version that may be a match for Featherine.

Fragments:

Fragments are spoken as infinite parallel universes unlimited conceivable outcomes and they came into different shapes and structures, for example, precious shards with various substance (though each contains a multiverse of parallel universes inside them)

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Beatrice is the weakest and is bounded by her territory but even Beatrice was able to create a compendium that generates and encapsulates an endless amount of fragments creating her own infinite multiverse based on endless possibilities spun from the Rokkenjima island scenario.

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This is the endless sea that voyagers traverse to escape their boredom. For the sheer scale of this realm, The territory that belongs to Beatrice is ultimately, insignificant to the perspective of voyagers, where beato's entire territory (infinite multiverse) is small and but one amongst an endless amount if this realm stated by Bernkastel, that the territory she created is "tiny" in comparison to others. Also referencing Erika, being the new lord of a fragment here, clearly references an entire territory considering Erika was deemed the new lord of one after her victory in ep5

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Not to mention, Voyagers aren't bounded by the Umineko verse and are able to traverse the void an to across other fictions (other fiction verses are just fragments in this realm) but anyways

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The City Of Books is the highest known realm in the domain of Witches. In the perspective of beings that can spread their influence throughout this realm, and Featherine Augustus Aurora, who has complete authority over it, the territory of lords, the history of the characters throughout the Ushiromiya family and the entire Journey/tale of Ange, is barely worth a single book amongst an unqauntifiable amount where each book dwarfs Entire multiverses to an immesurable degree that are stored as mere stories, representative of their own cosmologies stated by Erika. Each book holds its own narrative, main characters, cosmology ect... that even dwarfs Umineko (territory) in size. There's also the great game boards belonging to Featherine. It is noted that each one is immeasurably superior to the territory of Beatrice

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Then you have Featherine who treats everything as nothing but a chessboard and Lmabdadelta, a voyager witch who was warping and destroying parts of this realm decides to fight Featherine and Featherine simply stopped the verse like an author stopping his/her creation, pulled out the script and edited that she wins and destroys lambdadelta.

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Featherine Augustus Aurora has also surpassed the witch domain which was described as an infinite ascending staircase of power but even being transcended over this infinite heiarchy does not mean you're on Featherine's level. It just means you're a step towards it which further correlates with Featherine reaching he absolute highest heights any being can possibly reach. The domain of the "creator"/the final step to god. This final step towards god and it's domain is what Featherine ascended to and even met with.

Featherine is still limited by her sense of self, which one loses when they become part of the "Creator". Since you are no longer you, but merely another part of something that is all powerful. The boundless/0

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#19 Posted by Voice_of_Death (641 posts) - - Show Bio

@voice_of_death said:
@standardized said:

Hotu thanos stomps.

Howww in the world does he do that ?

Because he's stronger.

No he's not. Featherine is so unspeakably beyond thanos that it's crazy. I hate how a character as freakishly powerful as her exist.

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#20 Posted by Standardized (1502 posts) - - Show Bio

@standardized said:
@voice_of_death said:
@standardized said:

Hotu thanos stomps.

Howww in the world does he do that ?

Because he's stronger.

No he's not. Featherine is so unspeakably beyond thanos that it's crazy. I hate how a character as freakishly powerful as her exist.

Please explain how.

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#21 Posted by ovy7 (3103 posts) - - Show Bio
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#23 Edited by Kallinalli (135 posts) - - Show Bio

@kilgpmktra said:
@standardized said:
@voice_of_death said:
@standardized said:
@voice_of_death said:
@standardized said:

Hotu thanos stomps.

Howww in the world does he do that ?

Because he's stronger.

No he's not. Featherine is so unspeakably beyond thanos that it's crazy. I hate how a character as freakishly powerful as her exist.

Please explain how.

TL:DR:

Featherine is a functionally omnipotent/omniscient meta-conscious being (pretty much as powerful you can be without being The literal Author) that transcended an infinite layered hierarchy (reached the absolute highest heights and survived without vanishing and becoming 0/Creator Domain) and rules the city of books (each book stores countless of fragments/Umineko sized creations) that stomped other god tier meta fictional beings by narration (lambdadelta that she views as nothing) Where as characters like lambdadelta (voyagers) travel through the sea of fragments (a realm/void that hold countless of fragments) and they manipulate/destroy countless of fragments of greater size than beatrice's catbox (Beatrice catbox being infinite universes/multiverse) and views these fragments and Beatrice as nothing but something to play with

Not making any statements, just giving you an idea of Featherine

shes not omnipotence first of all she can barely remember shit. She has a weakness with her memory cap as long as thanos takes that off she weakens.

Also you clearly forget that humans who don't believe in witches will kill them. They create poison that kills witches.

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#24 Edited by kilgpmktra (888 posts) - - Show Bio

@kallinalli: First I said she's functionally omnipotent/Nigh omniscient being. She restricts herself so she doesn't become The literal creator/0 hilariously above everything in the verse. Second, she knows everything in the series. She even states that in exchange for knowing everything, everything is boring to her. Her "memory device" has some vague description where it's been stated that it is impossible to destroy. Where does it say she weakens? For all we know, her memory device allows her to remain "Featherine" and not become apart o the "creator". lambdadelta said if she could damage it (which has been stated to be pretty much impossible) it could possibly bug Featherine's personality. So What else?

You mean anti magic toxin? Unlike endless nine battler, most humans couldn't even use it.

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#25 Posted by ovy7 (3103 posts) - - Show Bio

@kilgpmktra:

Hotu Thanos is the version of Thanos that is a match for Featherine.

And this is pretty weird. I've read Marvel The End (the comic with HoTU Thanos) a week ago, and, honestly, HoTU Thanos didn't seem impressive at all.

He achieved a level from where he could see the "creation fibers" (don't remember how they were called) of the universe, and he sees that the universe is bound to end and and he couldn't stop it, no matter how much he tried.

His best feat is absorbing everything, but it took time and it wasn't mentioned if it's the current universe or all of the Marvel multiverse. In this feat he absorbed LT, Eternity, and Infinity, but again, it took time and they resisted him. It's also not mentioned if those were the real abstracts, and not their avatars.

And the weirdest thing is, that at the end, Death and Adam Warlock weren't absorbed. Death is obvious why (Thanos subconsciously didn't absorb her because of his love for Death), but Adam Warlock came to Thanos from another dimension/universe. It's also implied by the characters that beings able to exist in higher realities weren't affected by Thanos power.

I'm at work currently so I don't have access to the comic book to provide scans, but all of this HoTU Thanos thing is weird as hell.

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#26 Posted by TonyStark6999 (2606 posts) - - Show Bio
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#27 Posted by TheTruthTeller (410 posts) - - Show Bio

Hotu Thanos muderously godstomps with feats.

AS Featherine is not a true omnipotent.

As she needs a device to stop forgetting things.

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#28 Posted by yuuki157 (353 posts) - - Show Bio

Featherine

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#29 Posted by TheHierarchy (2069 posts) - - Show Bio

So from what I have seen, Featherine manipulates the story of the verse she lives in and thus wins. Her actual feats are megaverse busting? Those feats seem very vague so could anyone describe how far above multiversal she seems?

For now I think Thanos wins out of sheer scaling and context behidn the Marvel: The End story arc, but I'm willing to change my mind if someone can explain what feats make her this much of a powerhouse.

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#30 Edited by ovy7 (3103 posts) - - Show Bio

@thetruthteller:

Hotu Thanos muderously godstomps with feats.

Feats like taking his sweet time to absorb LT, Eternity, and Infinity (who possibly where avatars as there's nothing even implying that those were the true form of the abstracts), and failing to absorb beings that can exist outside of the universe or on a higher plane of existence (Adam Warlock, Death). Should I also add his inability to stop the death of the universe?

Meanwhile, Featherine stomped a being who's easily true LT level by just saying "I win and you die".

AS Featherine is not a true omnipotent.

Neither is Thanos, far from it actually.

As she needs a device to stop forgetting things.

Where the hell do you even got this? The devise is there to keep her "self" intact and not get absorbed into the omnipotent Creator. The device was also stated to be impossible to destroy, at best damage it, and even then it would just alter her memory and form while keeping her powers intact, and the fact that Lambda couldn't even come close to attacking the device proves that Featherine is extremely aware of it.

Also, she's nigh-omniscient (she's fully aware of what happened in the story), something HoTU Thanos isn't (couldn't find an answer for the death of the universe, didn't knew that the abstracts where pursuing him, didn't knew about Death and Adam Warlock surviving).

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#31 Edited by Sungsam (3209 posts) - - Show Bio

I would much prefer if @thehierarchy and other Thanos pros would join this thread. Otherwise there will be no debate.

If one is to argue that HOTU Thanos is being used here, you have to assume in this cross-over scenario that TOAA and God of Umineko are the same. And you have to merge those Omnipotent Godly aspects and ignore all inconsistencies. The concept of Omnipotence is stemmed from themes of Monotheism after all, there can only be one above all. Anyway.

Featherine trying hard to avoid being one with the Creator is not really a feat for her, it's a feat for the Creator. Concept of individuality is what defines a character, her being forcefully get eaten by the 0th Omnipotent is as good as gone. Even Lucifer Morningstar thinks becoming one with the Presence is like murder to him, that's not a feat though. NOBODY really wants to be fused with an Omnipotent God. It's as good as losing what you actually are, it's as good as being transformed into a frog. Being fused with an Omnipotent is a ONE SIDED DEAL that bites you in the ass, it's not good at all. You're not even really going to use that Omnipotence against anyone, the Omnipotent God basically overwrites you with its own existence like a copy-paste-replace. It's not impressive. I don't understand still why Featherine fans like to mention that as if WOOH FEATHERINE IS ONLY NOT OMNIPOTENT BY HER OWN CHOICE no she's not even Omnipotent, even if fused, she's not because there is no Featherine, there is only Omnipotent, even if the device is broken. There are many characters in fiction who survive getting fused with an Omnipotent every now and then, and still remain their individuality intact like God to Jesus Christ while Featherine can't.

As for HOTU Thanos, the scale of Thanos against Featherine is really difficult. On one hand, he struggled to absorb everyone which included multiversal to megaversal entities, and since LT is presumed to be Infinite Dimensional due to some shitty scaling against First Firmament and Oblivion and such. One would presume his power is just around that.

On the other hand, Featherine has never before fought something that has a little bit of Omnipotent Backing. Nor does she have feats of ever contending with anything like HOTU Thanos. In this case, it's very hard to scale them against each other because the concept of how power works, operates so differently between these two.

You don't even know if Goku's powers will work in Marvel, or if he can simply kill Spiderman for example, a problem that most battle debates don't consider. So here we must assume a scenario where Marvel and Umineko are in one fiction sharing the same overlapping rules and equalize the rules.

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#32 Posted by TheHierarchy (2069 posts) - - Show Bio

@sungsam:

I would much prefer if @thehierarchy and other Thanos pros would join this thread. Otherwise there will be no debate.

Wouldn't call myself a pro but thanks anyway.

Featherine trying hard to avoid being one with the Creator is not really a feat for her, it's a feat for the Creator. Concept of individuality is what defines a character, her being forcefully get eaten by the 0th Omnipotent is as good as gone. Even Lucifer Morningstar thinks becoming one with the Presence is like murder to him, that's not a feat though. NOBODY really wants to be fused with an Omnipotent God. It's as good as losing what you actually are, it's as good as being transformed into a frog. Being fused with an Omnipotent is a ONE SIDED DEAL that bites you in the ass, it's not good at all. You're not even really going to use that Omnipotence against anyone, the Omnipotent God basically overwrites you with its own existence like a copy-paste-replace. It's not impressive.

I agree with this, sound logic.

As for HOTU Thanos, the scale of Thanos against Featherine is really difficult. On one hand, he struggled to absorb everyone which included multiversal to megaversal entities, and since LT is presumed to be Infinite Dimensional due to some shitty scaling against First Firmament and Oblivion and such. One would presume his power is just around that.

I wouldn't say struggled really, all it said was "Eternity, Infinity and the Living Tribunal resisted being absorbed into my being longer than the rest" which doesn't mean much as "the rest" were fodder heroes, and it still only took him 2 pages to just rid existence of them all.

On the other hand, Featherine has never before fought something that has a little bit of Omnipotent Backing. Nor does she have feats of ever contending with anything like HOTU Thanos. In this case, it's very hard to scale them against each other.

I agree, until someone can clearly explain some of her feats that would put her above HOTU Thanos I am not too comfortable with making a judgement.

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#33 Edited by ovy7 (3103 posts) - - Show Bio

@thehierarchy:

So from what I have seen, Featherine manipulates the story of the verse she lives in and thus wins. Her actual feats are megaverse busting? Those feats seem very vague so could anyone describe how far above multiversal she seems?

She stomped Lambdadelta who can casually destroy tens of books from the City of Books. Those books aren't actual books, more like stories with their own cosmologies and what not. The Umineko story/book was stated by some characters to not even amount to one book in the City, and the Umineko book contains Beatrice's multiversal Catbox + an infinite amount of Fragments/Kakeras, or, to put it simply, other universes and possibly multiverses (Fragments/Kakeras are stated to be either universe or multiverses).

There's also stated that the difference between her and someone like Lambdadelta is like the difference between Lambdadelta and a normal human being like me and you.

She also transcends the infinite hierarchical ladder of the Witches, ladder which acts similar to dimensional tiering (I know, I know), where someone from a higher point views someone form a lower point as being fictional and it's capable to manipulate the narrative of said low point. So she's essentially the strongest character outside of the omnipotent Creator

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#34 Posted by TheHierarchy (2069 posts) - - Show Bio

@ovy7:

She stomped Lambdadelta who can casually destroy tens of books from the City of Books. Those books aren't actual books, more like stories with their own cosmologies and what not. The Umineko story/book was stated by some characters to not even amount to one book in the City, and the Umineko book contains Beatrice's multiversal Catbox + an infinite amount of Fragments/Kakeras, or, to put it simply, other universes and possibly multiverses (Fragments/Kakeras are stated to be either universe or multiverses).

So she stomped a megaversal entity? Thats a great feat and seems very comparable to HOTU Thanos. Does she have any more of these types of feats? Or maybe even better ones?

There's also stated that the difference between her and someone like Lambdadelta is like the difference between Lambdadelta and a normal human being like me and you.

I dont enjoy statements like these tbh, they usually over exaggerate by a large margin.

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#35 Edited by ovy7 (3103 posts) - - Show Bio

@thehierarchy:

So she stomped a megaversal entity? Thats a great feat and seems very comparable to HOTU Thanos. Does she have any more of these types of feats? Or maybe even better ones?

She only appears for very little time, so her feats are extremely limited. Maybe other comparable feat is that she later revive Lambdadelta.

Also, forgot to mention, the Featherine that stomped Lambdadelta was just a Piece, meaning, she was just her avatar or shadow in that world, not the true Featherine. She's also beyond the concept of death, like all the Witches, and can come from back even from existence erasure by just remembering her form or by thinking (Lambdadelta couldn't come back because her death was a narrative decision, so stronger than existence or conceptual erasure).

I dont enjoy statements like these tbh, they usually over exaggerate by a large margin.

That's a narrator statement though, and considering her status (transcending the infinite hierarchy), it's true.

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#36 Posted by TheHierarchy (2069 posts) - - Show Bio

@ovy7:

She only appears for very little time, so her feats are extremely limited. Maybe other comparable feat is that she later revive Lambdadelta.

Yeah so did HOTU Thanos, reviving her is also a really great feat, one once again pretty evenly matched with the HOTU

Also, forgot to mention, the Featherine that stomped Lambdadelta was just a Piece, meaning, she was just her avatar or shadow in that world, not the true Featherine. She's also beyond the concept of death, like all the Witches, and can come from back even from existence erasure by just remembering her form or by thinking (Lambdadelta couldn't come back because her death was a narrative decision, so stronger than existence or conceptual erasure).

I don't tthink being immune to death and whatnot means much on this level, once you get to characters like PR Beyonder, HOTU Thanos and all of these it's just kind of obvious that Death is not going to syke them out. That avatar thing is also pretty interesting, does the true Featherine have any feats of her own?

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#37 Edited by Sungsam (3209 posts) - - Show Bio

@ovy7 said:

@thehierarchy:

So she stomped a megaversal entity? Thats a great feat and seems very comparable to HOTU Thanos. Does she have any more of these types of feats? Or maybe even better ones?

She only appears for very little time, so her feats are extremely limited. Maybe other comparable feat is that she later revive Lambdadelta.

Also, forgot to mention, the Featherine that stomped Lambdadelta was just a Piece, meaning, she was just her avatar or shadow in that world, not the true Featherine. She's also beyond the concept of death, like all the Witches, and can come from back even from existence erasure by just remembering her form or by thinking (Lambdadelta couldn't come back because her death was a narrative decision, so stronger than existence or conceptual erasure).

I dont enjoy statements like these tbh, they usually over exaggerate by a large margin.

That's a narrator statement though, and considering her status (transcending the infinite hierarchy), it's true.

Technically speaking, the fact that Witches can get killed by Featherine already debunks the idea they were ever beyond the concept of death. They're high tier relative immortals I suppose, but they're not above it. They just resist death of everything below them, not above them. You can't say Witches are beyond death when they can get killed by something more powerful than them, using the concept of death against them successfully. It's a matter of power, not aconceptualism to death.

They're not even really "Outerversal" since they're bound to a lower cosmological fictional hierarchy that Featherine looks down upon.

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#39 Posted by lightning46 (14 posts) - - Show Bio

This character was destroyed in the easy Featherine

Tier:1-A

Name: Lady Lambdadelta, The Witch of Absolute/Certainty, "Super Paper", "Lambdadelta-chan-sama", "Lambda", "Pink Stalker", "Brave Comrade", Voyager, Witch of the Senate

Origin:Umineko no Naku Koro ni

Gender: Female

Age: 1000+, but technically beyond the concept of time

Classification: Witch of Absolute/Certainty, Voyager Witch

Power and Abilities:Magic, Flight, Reality Warping, Spatial Manipulation, Time Manipulation (Can stop time, rewound the fifth game), Probability Manipulation (Can bring the odds of failure almost completely down to zero. That is, she has the power to give rise to almost perfect certainty), Causality Manipulation, Fate Manipulation, Plot Manipulation (Sees lower layers containing universes, countless realms, higher-dimensions, and nothingnessas fiction, in the forms of Fragments, books, and chessboards which she can manipulate as she pleases), Gravity Manipulation (Created the concept of gravity; can manipulate gravitational forces so powerful that they can affect comparable opponents and destroy higher-dimensional stories in the City of Books), Conceptual Manipulation and Attack (Can create the concept of gravity and attack the concepts of existence via words, which she can turn into undeniable facts of reality through the Red and Blue Truths), Higher-Dimensional Manipulation (Can manipulate Kakera, Fragments that contain infinite possibilities with higher dimensions), Matter Manipulation (Can turn herself and others into candy, even when they manifest in the City of Books), Absorption (Voyagers can consume other Voyagers; Lambdadelta attempted to do this to Bernkastel), Telepathy, Telekinesis, Mind Manipulation, Teleportation, Shapeshifting, Duplication, Reactive Evolution, Clairvoyance / Cosmic Awareness (Can peer into Fragments), Creation and Existence Erasure (Created and destroyed many higher-dimensional universes during her fight with Bernkastel), Sealing (Threatened to seal Beatrice into the most miserable fragment, and shackled her, forcing her to continue the game), Summoning, exists within the Sea of Nothingness beyond all layers and stories and can adapt to higher-dimensional layers and even those that exist beyond them entirely, Acausality, Omnipresence (As a voyager witch, she is the embodiment of the concept "Hard workers are rewarded", and is not limited to any single territory, but throughout the endless worlds within the sea of fragments), Non-Corporeal (Exists as the embodiment of her own universe, a concept), Immortality (Types 1, 3, and 4), Regeneration (High-Godly; even if the entirety of her existence is completely erased and lost to the Sea of Nothingness beyond all layers and stories, she can regain her form just by thinking)

Attack Potency:Outerverse level (Equal to Bernkastel, can manifest within the highest level of the Witch's theatre. Her battle with Bernkastel in the manga destroyed several books that contained Universes comparable to Aurora's study in size as they were noted to contain works the size of the entire journey of the Umineko Franchise sans the city itself, and large portions of the shelves that supported and dwarfed these Universes within the City of Books. Lambdadelta also crushed and consumed many of these books using a concentrated mass of super gravity. Her magic allows her to be able to create a god, an entity who transcends all layers, stories and endeavors, though if the individual she transformed was a lower entity, they would immediately lose their sense of self. Due to her fundamental nature as a voyager witch Lambdadelta is a universe that can adapt to higher layers in the sea of fragments which was an infinite void beyond the human domain where infinite layers exist, her only limits being that of what she decides herself, if any at all. She managed to escape a logic error which was likened to the Sea of Oblivion)

Speed:Irrelevant (Far beyond the concepts of time and distance of lower worlds and she could match Bernkastel blow for blow. Due to her ability to evolve into a being without limitations, if she so desires she can attain infinitely greater speeds) with an Omnipresence state of existence (She is a concept that is not bound to any one territory but exists across infinite worlds as the embodiment of "hard workers are rewarded")

Lifting Strength:Irrelevant via powerscaling (Qualitatively completely superior to characters that can hold countless higher dimensional universes in their palms and she is equal to Bernkastel who views the entire Umineko verse as a story; just as her friends she should be able to lift and crush the entire gameboard where meta-Beatrice exists as a piece. She lifted the entire Trianthology world)

Striking Strength:Outerversal (Collided with Bernkastel several times creating Big Bangs and Big Crunches on the scale of the City of Books, she can hurt beings of this level, she deflected Dlanor's conceptual weapon with mere Popcorn)

Durability:Outerverse level (Her abstract, conceptual, and incorporeal nature, as well as acausality, regeneration, and resurrection makes the concept of death inapplicable to her unless she stops thinking; She is capable of restoring her body if she remembers its shape; and she can't be completely destroyed unless her incorporeal soul is erased to nothingness that is beyond conventional existence and non-existence of duality in the sea of nothingness which is beyond the infinite dimensional hierarchy; the limitations to her power, physiology and durability are only that of which she considers to exist for herself. She managed to survive a logic error and she is superior to beings who managed to survive in the sea of oblivion as a part of its structure)

Stamina: Limitless. She has fought with Bernkastel for centuries and she has spent just as long if not longer trying to escape the "hell" of the logic error.

Range: Outerversal

Standard Equipment: A cute pink sailor-like hat

Intelligence: Genius level. In just taking a quick look she effortlessly denied Battler's blue truths for the first and second games. She can intellectually match Bernkastel.

Weaknesses: Her magic depends on her faith in it; Boredom and the possibility of losing her will. She is traumatized, unbalanced and can act childishly. Her love to Bernkastel can be problematic and made her lose one of her games against the Witch. She mentioned being torn apart by nothingness would “kill” even her though this could just be in reference to her avatar in the Golden Land.

Notable Attacks/Techniques:

- Absolute Magic: Lambda's magic. It rewards the efforts of others by bringing absolute results.

- Truths: Truths are moves used in debates between human and witches, while they're arguments they usually take the form of powerful conceptual weapons that damages the concept of her target. Because truth is a conceptual move, it cannot be avoided, but can be confronted with other truths.

  • Blue Truth: It's used as a theory that works as counter argument to the opponent's statement. It usually takes the form of an stake that impales the opponent; the opponent cannot remove the stake without countering the Blue Truth's argument using the Red Truth. The Blue Truth must abide by the Red Truth. Although a single Blue Truth isn't lethal, enough will eventually deny the concept of Lambda's opponent, killing them.
  • Red Truth: Anything said in red is an undeniable, absolute truth that cannot be denied, and does not need to be backed up by proof, although it is impossible to lie using the Red Truth. However, a Red Truth can be interpreted in many different ways.
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#40 Posted by ovy7 (3103 posts) - - Show Bio

@thehierarchy:

That avatar thing is also pretty interesting, does the true Featherine have any feats of her own?

I don't even remember if true Featherine ever appeared in the novel, though I guess that a feat for her true form is creating and ruling over The City of Books, that place that contains an infinite amount of books/megaverses.

@sungsam said:
@ovy7 said:

@thehierarchy:

So she stomped a megaversal entity? Thats a great feat and seems very comparable to HOTU Thanos. Does she have any more of these types of feats? Or maybe even better ones?

She only appears for very little time, so her feats are extremely limited. Maybe other comparable feat is that she later revive Lambdadelta.

Also, forgot to mention, the Featherine that stomped Lambdadelta was just a Piece, meaning, she was just her avatar or shadow in that world, not the true Featherine. She's also beyond the concept of death, like all the Witches, and can come from back even from existence erasure by just remembering her form or by thinking (Lambdadelta couldn't come back because her death was a narrative decision, so stronger than existence or conceptual erasure).

I dont enjoy statements like these tbh, they usually over exaggerate by a large margin.

That's a narrator statement though, and considering her status (transcending the infinite hierarchy), it's true.

Technically speaking, the fact that Witches can get killed by Featherine already debunks the idea they were ever beyond the concept of death. They're high tier relative immortals I suppose, but they're not above it. They just resist death of everything below them, not above them. You can't say Witches are beyond death when they can get killed by something more powerful than them, using the concept of death against them successfully. It's a matter of power, not aconceptualism to death.

They're not even really "Outerversal" since they're bound to a lower cosmological fictional hierarchy that Featherine looks down upon.

I see your point, but we must take into consideration the circumstance of Lambdadelta's death. She wasn't killed with something like existence or conceptual erasure, but by the narrative/plot itself. It's literally like the author killing character X because he doesn't like him anymore, even though character X has all the amount of immortally possible. This is some Meta shit going on here lol.

A better example, I think, is The Writer (the only one in DC that I know of being able to manipulate the narrative) deciding to kill of Lucifer even though he's above the concept of death (Death herself has no power over Lucifer, though I can't remember if she or Lucifer stated this).

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#41 Edited by Sungsam (3209 posts) - - Show Bio

@ovy7 said:

I see your point, but we must take into consideration the circumstance of Lambdadelta's death. She wasn't killed with something like existence or conceptual erasure, but by the narrative/plot itself. It's literally like the author killing character X because he doesn't like him anymore, even though character X has all the amount of immortally possible. This is some Meta shit going on here lol.

A better example, I think, is The Writer (the only one in DC that I know of being able to manipulate the narrative) deciding to kill of Lucifer even though he's above the concept of death (Death herself has no power over Lucifer, though I can't remember if she or Lucifer stated this).

That just means that Labdadelta is not immune to her immortality being removed by a more powerful reality manipulation. So there's that, her defenses are limited and were never even infinite to begin with. The moment there's a BUT, the immortality and the power and the transcension to a concept is merely finite and relative.

On the inside, there is literally no difference between reality warping and fiction plot manipulation. In fact, they're merely describing the same thing as with glass is half full, glass is half empty. The words change, the meaning is the same.

We know for a fact that Lucifer is below Presence, and Presence is in no way metafictional. Being above death is merely a relative term, when characters say they are above death, they really only mean they're above even high standards of immortality, but it's not absolute. The Writer of DC is just another God who chooses to warp reality with a pen, the Writer could have done this by using a Dragonball or Merlin's staff or whatnot without being metafictional in the sense. It's only a matter of freedom of method.

The only way to truly be above all possible death is Omnipotence. Such a thing doesn't exist in any non-Omnipotent. This is an issue I have with Comics, Manga, Anime, Novels, Movies and etc. who claim their characters are "above death" then die. It's same b

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#42 Edited by Sungsam (3209 posts) - - Show Bio

@lightning46 said:

This character was destroyed in the easy Featherine

Tier:1-A

Name: Lady Lambdadelta, The Witch of Absolute/Certainty, "Super Paper", "Lambdadelta-chan-sama", "Lambda", "Pink Stalker", "Brave Comrade", Voyager, Witch of the Senate

Origin:Umineko no Naku Koro ni

Gender: Female

Age: 1000+, but technically beyond the concept of time

Classification: Witch of Absolute/Certainty, Voyager Witch

Power and Abilities:Magic, Flight, Reality Warping, Spatial Manipulation, Time Manipulation (Can stop time, rewound the fifth game), Probability Manipulation (Can bring the odds of failure almost completely down to zero. That is, she has the power to give rise to almost perfect certainty), Causality Manipulation, Fate Manipulation, Plot Manipulation (Sees lower layers containing universes, countless realms, higher-dimensions, and nothingnessas fiction, in the forms of Fragments, books, and chessboards which she can manipulate as she pleases), Gravity Manipulation (Created the concept of gravity; can manipulate gravitational forces so powerful that they can affect comparable opponents and destroy higher-dimensional stories in the City of Books), Conceptual Manipulation and Attack (Can create the concept of gravity and attack the concepts of existence via words, which she can turn into undeniable facts of reality through the Red and Blue Truths), Higher-Dimensional Manipulation (Can manipulate Kakera, Fragments that contain infinite possibilities with higher dimensions), Matter Manipulation (Can turn herself and others into candy, even when they manifest in the City of Books), Absorption (Voyagers can consume other Voyagers; Lambdadelta attempted to do this to Bernkastel), Telepathy, Telekinesis, Mind Manipulation, Teleportation, Shapeshifting, Duplication, Reactive Evolution, Clairvoyance / Cosmic Awareness (Can peer into Fragments), Creation and Existence Erasure (Created and destroyed many higher-dimensional universes during her fight with Bernkastel), Sealing (Threatened to seal Beatrice into the most miserable fragment, and shackled her, forcing her to continue the game), Summoning, exists within the Sea of Nothingness beyond all layers and stories and can adapt to higher-dimensional layers and even those that exist beyond them entirely, Acausality, Omnipresence (As a voyager witch, she is the embodiment of the concept "Hard workers are rewarded", and is not limited to any single territory, but throughout the endless worlds within the sea of fragments), Non-Corporeal (Exists as the embodiment of her own universe, a concept), Immortality (Types 1, 3, and 4), Regeneration (High-Godly; even if the entirety of her existence is completely erased and lost to the Sea of Nothingness beyond all layers and stories, she can regain her form just by thinking)

Attack Potency:Outerverse level (Equal to Bernkastel, can manifest within the highest level of the Witch's theatre. Her battle with Bernkastel in the manga destroyed several books that contained Universes comparable to Aurora's study in size as they were noted to contain works the size of the entire journey of the Umineko Franchise sans the city itself, and large portions of the shelves that supported and dwarfed these Universes within the City of Books. Lambdadelta also crushed and consumed many of these books using a concentrated mass of super gravity. Her magic allows her to be able to create a god, an entity who transcends all layers, stories and endeavors, though if the individual she transformed was a lower entity, they would immediately lose their sense of self. Due to her fundamental nature as a voyager witch Lambdadelta is a universe that can adapt to higher layers in the sea of fragments which was an infinite void beyond the human domain where infinite layers exist, her only limits being that of what she decides herself, if any at all. She managed to escape a logic error which was likened to the Sea of Oblivion)

Speed:Irrelevant (Far beyond the concepts of time and distance of lower worlds and she could match Bernkastel blow for blow. Due to her ability to evolve into a being without limitations, if she so desires she can attain infinitely greater speeds) with an Omnipresence state of existence (She is a concept that is not bound to any one territory but exists across infinite worlds as the embodiment of "hard workers are rewarded")

Lifting Strength:Irrelevant via powerscaling (Qualitatively completely superior to characters that can hold countless higher dimensional universes in their palms and she is equal to Bernkastel who views the entire Umineko verse as a story; just as her friends she should be able to lift and crush the entire gameboard where meta-Beatrice exists as a piece. She lifted the entire Trianthology world)

Striking Strength:Outerversal (Collided with Bernkastel several times creating Big Bangs and Big Crunches on the scale of the City of Books, she can hurt beings of this level, she deflected Dlanor's conceptual weapon with mere Popcorn)

Durability:Outerverse level (Her abstract, conceptual, and incorporeal nature, as well as acausality, regeneration, and resurrection makes the concept of death inapplicable to her unless she stops thinking; She is capable of restoring her body if she remembers its shape; and she can't be completely destroyed unless her incorporeal soul is erased to nothingness that is beyond conventional existence and non-existence of duality in the sea of nothingness which is beyond the infinite dimensional hierarchy; the limitations to her power, physiology and durability are only that of which she considers to exist for herself. She managed to survive a logic error and she is superior to beings who managed to survive in the sea of oblivion as a part of its structure)

Stamina: Limitless. She has fought with Bernkastel for centuries and she has spent just as long if not longer trying to escape the "hell" of the logic error.

Range: Outerversal

Standard Equipment: A cute pink sailor-like hat

Intelligence: Genius level. In just taking a quick look she effortlessly denied Battler's blue truths for the first and second games. She can intellectually match Bernkastel.

Weaknesses: Her magic depends on her faith in it; Boredom and the possibility of losing her will. She is traumatized, unbalanced and can act childishly. Her love to Bernkastel can be problematic and made her lose one of her games against the Witch. She mentioned being torn apart by nothingness would “kill” even her though this could just be in reference to her avatar in the Golden Land.

Notable Attacks/Techniques:

- Absolute Magic: Lambda's magic. It rewards the efforts of others by bringing absolute results.

- Truths: Truths are moves used in debates between human and witches, while they're arguments they usually take the form of powerful conceptual weapons that damages the concept of her target. Because truth is a conceptual move, it cannot be avoided, but can be confronted with other truths.

  • Blue Truth: It's used as a theory that works as counter argument to the opponent's statement. It usually takes the form of an stake that impales the opponent; the opponent cannot remove the stake without countering the Blue Truth's argument using the Red Truth. The Blue Truth must abide by the Red Truth. Although a single Blue Truth isn't lethal, enough will eventually deny the concept of Lambda's opponent, killing them.
  • Red Truth: Anything said in red is an undeniable, absolute truth that cannot be denied, and does not need to be backed up by proof, although it is impossible to lie using the Red Truth. However, a Red Truth can be interpreted in many different ways.

I'm sorry, but you should not cite the Tiering Opinion of VSBattles who are stupid enough to question Omnipotence but don't question Omniscience and Omnipresence for some idiotic reason. Ask for evidence that Omnipotence exists in fiction then run away when asked for logical evidence that High 1as are Infinitely above Outerversal using "infinity" which cannot be proven in fiction as well.

The fact that Lambdadelta is a character constrained by a structure that sees her as non-existing to Featherine already debunks the idea she was ever "Outerversal".

The only thing Outerversal in Umineko is the Creator and Featherine. Everyone else is like a Demiurge whose powers will only ever work if Featherine gets out of the fucking way.

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#43 Posted by lightning46 (14 posts) - - Show Bio

@sungsam: Considering that she has practically come to an emphasis to literally all-powerful being and to leave says live about as far as she is strong

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#44 Edited by Wrathofthebrad (934 posts) - - Show Bio

@ovy7 said:

Featherine takes this.

Also, why bump this?

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#45 Edited by AbstractRaze (2753 posts) - - Show Bio

Manga/Anime wankers be like:

Loading Video...

Even when it's a character from a mediocre Anime series whose rating quality is between 6 and 7/10, which is not even based on a Manga story, rather on a game.

But well, you finally found an overpowered character within your obsessed world, congratulations.

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#46 Edited by Sungsam (3209 posts) - - Show Bio

@lightning46 said:

@sungsam: Considering that she has practically come to an emphasis to literally all-powerful being and to leave says live about as far as she is strong

You cannot be an all powerful being while at the same, being below the power of Featherine and God. Being All-Powerful is just a politicized word for Omnipotence, Lambda literally contradicts the entire Franchise's hierarchy. It's just hyperbolic statement.

Strength in fiction is relative among non-Omnipotents.

If you believe for a second that Lambdadelta is Omnipotent, then you are literally but quietly Suggsversing. You may believe she is powerful and multiversal, but she is in no way Outerversal nor is she even Nigh-Omnipotent, in fact, the latter title can only exist in one character a fiction at a time, in Umineko's case, being Featherine. And the fact that Featherine is ludicrously more powerful than Lamb, then Lamb is FAR from Nigh Omnipotent, not even within the domain of relative comparable power to Featherine like the relationship between Anakin and Obi Wan power difference irrelevancy for example.

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#48 Posted by TonyStark6999 (2606 posts) - - Show Bio

Featherine

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#49 Edited by Sungsam (3209 posts) - - Show Bio
@kilgpmktra said:
@sungsam said:

But that's the point. You lose your individuality and meaning. Featherine just wants to remain Featherine and reached/touched the highest, forbidden heights (creator domain) and survived. This just tells you that Umineko has a legit "TOAA" concept which is also a display of power. For voyagers, Even ignoring higher worlds in territories, Voyagers are far superior to Beatrice (who had already created the catbox which encompass endless fragments) While they travel among the sea of fragments which is a realm that holds endless fragments of the size of beatrice's catbox/greater than while restricting themselves inside territories like Bernkastel placing beings from catbox to catbox that are greater than Beatrice's

When an Author says said character is Omnipotent, I believe them under the condition that they never reveal any serious non-Paradoxical or any serious, non-consented logical limit to the Omnipotent. It's the same simple standard that if someone says Batman is a good martial artist and high peak human, I believe them so long as Batman is shown to never have his ass kicked by a low street tier bum in a straight fight.

Do not worry, I am not an Outerversalist or a VSBattles retard who asks for "PROVE THIS CHARACTER IS OMNIPOTENT" but never show up with reasons why the Character is not Omnipotent either.

Omnipotents are besides this, not in anyway, quantifiable or describable. I do agree that Umineko's God is Omnipotent, I just don't agree with your reasoning to prove he is and your reason to agree that this God is Omnipotent. You seem to think, that trying to standardize that an Omnipotent should have no meaning and just suck anything that tries to get too close to its power like in Umineko should prove that therefore Creator of Umineko is Omnipotent. firstly, I don't think this is necessary to me, and I think your ruling is a bit too arbitrary.

An Omnipotent can have no meaning like Umineko, but an Omnipotent can say fuck this shit, I wanna be an Eldritch God and become Azathoth, next thing you know, an Omnipotent can decide to be Morgan Freeman, an Omnipotent can choose to act like an idiot that pops in every now and then like Man of Miracles or an Omnipotent can act like a Transgender Tumblrina like TOAA switching genders, or an Omnipotent can play peak-a-boo with everyone like the Presence/Monitor/Source in DC and go by many names and get himself killed for the lulz and come back as a scary ass alien for the lulz and make a lolita girl as the new God for some reason.

There is no writing on the wall as to what an Omnipotent is supposed to be besides its own All-Power and lack of probable limits. We cannot put more standards to what an Omnipotent is supposed to be, besides not having at least any non-paradoxical limits because that'd be like arguing that a Planet Buster is supposed to be this, this, this and this besides the Planet Buster just being able to destroy a Planet. Do not put more standards than what is necessary already. Every fiction can have its own version of an Omnipotent's characteristics besides the issue of power and non-limits, they should never be used to judge others by us.

Creator/TOAA is a non factor and if we started arguing about Omnipotent vs Omnipotent dilemma, consider this thread locked. I just don't think that Featherine being deleted fused by the Omnipotent is something that you should ever mention as a "feat". You think this is a feat for Featherine and she becomes Omnipotent, I don't think it is, Featherine's relationship to the Creator is similar to Lucifer's and the Presence. Being one with an Omnipotent is not empowerment, it's deletion and murder. You seem to think this is a good thing for some reason, like its a feat. You say that Featherine becomes one with the Creator, but the Creator is not more or less with or without Featherine. Featherine does not become Omnipotent, she just gets recycled back to its Creator. You might think I'm twisting words, but that's literally what's happening. There is no rule for example, that if one merges with an Omnipotent, it's automatic erasure, but that's not the case. Mom Spawn for example and Hao from Shaman King arguably. Featherine's relationship to God is more comparable to Lucifer and even then, it's not common. So if Featherine is up against any guy who has Omnipotent backing while Featherine as herself can never hope to do that by feats being herself, she will likely struggle against that.

I already explained before that if one is to hypothesize a crossover battle between two fictions that have Omnipotents, assume they're the same in this scenario since the basis and the most logical conclusion of Omnipotence is centered on a Monotheistic Model (there can only be ONE Above all) a conceptual all-hax power, that was as a concept, borrowed from an ethno-religious belief centered around Desert Dwelling Levantine Semites known as Jews who keep on getting massacred and genocided for the past thousands of years by either Babylonians, Romans, Crusades, Spanish or Nazis, and are known for circumcision and bagels and banks, and despite this, still think they're the chosen of an Omnipotent God still for some reason. Going off topic though.

And I don't know why you bolded or highlited my comment about my analogy of Goku's powers probably not working if he's dropped in the Marvel Universe though, I don't see anything in your reply that indicates you ever brought it to your attention, would you mind?