Battle is on Earth
- Morals are off for both characters, bloodlust on
- BFR is allowed
- Win by KO, Death or Incapacitation (including permanent BFR)
The Mad God (Insane) Genis Vell vs Hecate (DC)
@supermanwithatan01 said:
How do you imagine that to be true? Genis Vell under his own power killed a multiversal being and subsequently restarted (plus surviving the destruction of) the multiverse. He also has "omniversal telepathy", the capability to un-do an uber reality warp in Wanda's HoM warp, and has the ability to BFR characters to Nth space (where powers (both energy and magic) do not work.
I keep seeing people say he killed a Multiversal Being in Eternity but that isn't actually special. IG Thanos also One-Shot Eternity as well as other characters throughout Marvels Run. And no, IG Thanos did not 1-Shot an "aspect of Eternity", Multi-Eternity is a myth. Other people who have defeated Eternity include IG Thanos, PR Beyonder, Oblivion and Abraxas. All Multiversal Beings sure, but it just goes to show, Eternity is not undefeatable. Also, from my understanding, Eternity wanted to be destroyed, that way the universe could be reborn/remade. Not really relevant though, since Genis still had to have the actual power to do it.
Capability to undo the HoM warp is implied and not shown as well, so if you are going to say feats only, that wouldn't apply. I'll give it to him regardless as its a great feat. BFRing Characters to Nth space is pretty much like BFR'ing characters to higher dimensions in DC, which is something high-tiers do to default-win fights.
Unless we're hyping Hecate as this ridiculous omniversal being (with absolutely no feats to back it up as far as I've seen) then I'm not sure why you are saying she's "significantly more powerful". My questions are genuine, no intention of being dismissive of your comments.
The reason for Hecate's "hype" is simple: She has already demonstrated the ability to do this.
First, a quick recap on DC Cosmology:
Here is basically the map of the greater DC Multiverse. You'll notice that the Sphere of the Gods is a Dimensional tier above the Orrey of Worlds. The Orrey of Worlds is 5th-Dimensional, proven in Final Crisis when Mandrakk is draining the Orrey of the Bleed, which is 5th-Dimensional. Right off the bat, we can conclude that the Sphere of the Gods is a 6th-Dimensional space.
Hecate Existed before any of the Gods, and before the Sphere of Gods was formed:
The Power of Hecate:
Hecate has the power to destroy all the Sphere of Gods:
She easily destroys Olympus, and the Greek Gods ran away before she got there:
BTW, thatss the Sphere of The Gods, including the Silver City, aka Pax Dei, Archangels. Suffice to say, that this feat is superior to any feat that Genis Vale has, because the Sphere of the Gods itself is above the Marvel Multiverse.
The Upside-Down Man is stated to be Hecate's equal, the Dark Multiverses version of her:
Her Magic is the only thing that can harm him at the time, this includes the Silver City and Hell:
And UDM Himself is also above the Sphere of Gods. The one talking in blacked-out Text is FOTF. First of the Fallen, ruler of Hell. He gets 1-Shot by the Otherkind later on:
Upside-Down Man is a threat to the Entire DC Multiverse:
TL;DR:
>The Sphere of Gods is beyond the Marvel Multiverse (Eternity)
>Hecate Existed before the Sphere of Gods, and can destroy the Sphere of Gods
>Hecate equals the Upside-Down Man, who threatens the entirety of the DC Multiverse
@redshift_bacon said:
@supermanwithatan01 said:
How do you imagine that to be true? Genis Vell under his own power killed a multiversal being and subsequently restarted (plus surviving the destruction of) the multiverse. He also has "omniversal telepathy", the capability to un-do an uber reality warp in Wanda's HoM warp, and has the ability to BFR characters to Nth space (where powers (both energy and magic) do not work.
I keep seeing people say he killed a Multiversal Being in Eternity but that isn't actually special. IG Thanos also One-Shot Eternity as well as other characters throughout Marvels Run. And no, IG Thanos did not 1-Shot an "aspect of Eternity", Multi-Eternity is a myth. Other people who have defeated Eternity include IG Thanos, PR Beyonder, Oblivion and Abraxas. All Multiversal Beings sure, but it just goes to show, Eternity is not undefeatable. Also, from my understanding, Eternity wanted to be destroyed, that way the universe could be reborn/remade. Not really relevant though, since Genis still had to have the actual power to do it.
- I'm not sure I understand your point here. IG Thanos and PR Beyonder would also kill Hecate without much issue. I'm not familiar with the instance of Oblivion and Abraxas killing Eternity, so I can not speak to that.
- Multi-Eternity is a term coined on the vine based on some facts regarding the character of Eternity. His essence/being encompasses the multiverse.
- No one made a claim that Eternity was "undefeatable". In fact, my argument was centered around an instance of him being defeated lol
- Eternity wanting to be destroyed was not confirmed, Genis Vell inferred it after "crushing" him. We agree the capability to do so is what matters most here, so that point is also irrelevant.
Capability to undo the HoM warp is implied and not shown as well, so if you are going to say feats only, that wouldn't apply. I'll give it to him regardless as its a great feat.
- Actually, it was shown. He did so in a limited area when he began realizing that the world was wrong, then decided later not to revert it back because of his issues with confidence. By this point, Genis was concerned about all decisions he made due to his morality
Gallery
- adding these for another example of him physically doing it:
Gallery
BFRing Characters to Nth space is pretty much like BFR'ing characters to higher dimensions in DC, which is something high-tiers do to default-win fights.
Gallery
The reason for Hecate's "hype" is simple: She has already demonstrated the ability to do this.
First, a quick recap on DC Cosmology:
Here is basically the map of the greater DC Multiverse. You'll notice that the Sphere of the Gods is a Dimensional tier above the Orrey of Worlds. The Orrey of Worlds is 5th-Dimensional, proven in Final Crisis when Mandrakk is draining the Orrey of the Bleed, which is 5th-Dimensional. Right off the bat, we can conclude that the Sphere of the Gods is a 6th-Dimensional space.
- I'm not sure what this proves other than DC, much like Marvel, has a multiverse that would often be discarded in the grand scheme of storytelling. I'm not entirely sure that Sphere of the Gods is a 6th Dimensional space, but even so that does not change or belittle the previously discussed feat of Genis Vell killing Eternity, a being that, based on extrapolation of the image you just posted, would encompass the Sphere of the Gods as well if he existed in the DCU.
Hecate Existed before any of the Gods, and before the Sphere of Gods was formed:
- That's fine. But it's also not really a feat and doesn't really have anything to do with combat.
The Power of Hecate:
Hecate has the power to destroy all the Sphere of Gods:
- Also impressive, but again nothing about this is relevant. It's a character statement making guesses about Hecate's intent... it also states, more or less, she's seeking to destroy a dimension where power (unsubstantiated and ignored by bigger events I made add) comes from in DC. This is "dimension busting" that causes Multiversal ripples. Impressive, but literally a feat that could absolutely be replicated by Genis Vell. Also, one that is not backed up by the creation of another character: Perpetua, nor does it stand to reason she's on the level of another energy/matter manipulating being: Doctor Manhattan who also easily thwarts relatively potent magical beings (proving Energy/Matter manipulators can negate and overpower magic) This is also seen in Marvel by Hank Pym depowing Loki, Quasar overloading magical beings etc. They are much less powerful in that field than Genis.
Gallery
She easily destroys Olympus, and the Greek Gods ran away before she got there:
BTW, thatss the Sphere of The Gods, including the Silver City, aka Pax Dei, Archangels. Suffice to say, that this feat is superior to any feat that Genis Vale has, because the Sphere of the Gods itself is above the Marvel Multiverse.
- Taking down Olympus doesn't mean much. Genis Vell show'd King Thor what would happen to Asgard if they didn't stop the Storm Giant and how Odin was a tool. This storm giant that Odin himself (who outside of maybe full power Ares is head and shoulders above the DC Olympians) feared. Genis one-shotted him:
Gallery
The Upside-Down Man is stated to be Hecate's equal, the Dark Multiverses version of her:
- Proving another of my points, that it's still multiversal level power we're discussing (same as Genis Vells), and providing yet another viable BFR option for Hecate.
And UDM Himself is also above the Sphere of Gods. The one talking in blacked-out Text is FOTF. First of the Fallen, ruler of Hell. He gets 1-Shot by the Otherkind later on:
- Nothing Genis could not replicate
Upside-Down Man is a threat to the Entire DC Multiverse:
- Again, we're talking Multiversal. We're going over and over and over discussing the same thing. You said she's "significantly" more powerful than Genis Vell but not a single scan has shown anything other than feats about a dimension known as the sphere of the gods, bullying Olympians (no more impressive than Genis Vell's Asgardian feat of literally killing a being doing the same exact thing to them), and speculation on breaking the source wall. I understand using the Upside down man as a feat for her since he's her polar opposite, but its only reiterating the idea we're discussing the multiverse (in DC theres the normal and the dark). Traveling between the 2 and affecting one is not the same thing as completely destroying one. So I could consider them equally impressive, but nothing here shouts "significant"
TL;DR:
>The Sphere of Gods is beyond the Marvel Multiverse (Eternity)
>Hecate Existed before the Sphere of Gods, and can destroy the Sphere of Gods
>Hecate equals the Upside-Down Man, who threatens the entirety of the DC Multiverse
Final thoughts:
- It sincerely was not my intent to argue for Genis. I just wanted to provide insight into some misconception about feats of his that work their way around the vine
- You've shown absolutely no proof the Sphere of the Gods is "beyond the Marvel Multiverse". In fact, you've provided documentation proving it is simply another dimension, and all of these presumed feats (that never actually came to fruition from the scans you provided) revolving around a Multiverse. 1:1 with Eternity.
- Didn't argue against this. All this proves is she can destroy an entire dimension that would effect the entire multiverse. A lesser feat than Genis Vell's by a fair margin. The only help this provides to Hecate's case is that it is proof Genis could not simply hand wave open a portal to the beginning of her existence and kill her in infancy
- Hecate = someone who's powerlevel caps and Multiversal level... The exact ballpark for the other character in this fight. Sharing a scan...
- And before theres any misconception
Gallery
- "I crushed him"
- Hecate is a beast, but nothing she's done is "significantly" more impressive than Genis Vell.. and utilizing all of the character statement/speculation feats we can absolutely use Genis killing Eternity and all of the multiverse for a second time:
Gallery
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