the living tribunal vs lucifer morningstar

@kingant27:

#132 Posted by Kingant27 (1760 posts) - 5 hours, 3 minutes ago - Show Bio

Living Tribunal is the confirmed 2nd to god in Marvel, Lucifer is not confirmed 2nd to god in dc; therefore LLiving Tribunal wins.

that is totally stupid. let me summarize your (and a surprising number of peoples) way of thinking;

two universes, universe 1 and universe 2. the most powerful being of U1 equals the most powerful in U2. the second in U1 equals the second in U2. the third in U1 equals the third in U2 and so on.

this kind of thinking is the most retarded way i have ever seen, and not just that, most people actually use this like it is some kind of concluding evidence and solid proof. if that is the case, if the spectre is the 30th most powerful being in DC, does he equal the 30th being in marvel? laughable. it humiliates all who actually post it. the below listing is not for you.

LT:

has lived since the dawn of time and spent all that time judging- this shows his experience.

easily separated a universe from the multiverse, is the head of all abstracts- this shows his authority.

can see into the past, present, and future- this shows his nigh omniscience.

revived the 4 abstracts (eternity and co), stranger, eon, lord chaos and master order with a wave, easily disable the IG- this shows his power.

lucifer:

has lived much more than 15 billion years, about 20- this shows his experience.

he shaped the DC multiverse and everything in it, turned infinity back in itself and did not destroy creation- this shows his will.

he escaped the plan- this shows his intellect.

burned pages from the book of destiny, one shotted the voice of god, destroyed an unlimited number of realms and universes with his presence- this shows his power.

these two are pretty evenly matched. and i rarely say things like this .

@baron_von_santa: My post wasn't trying to prove that ABC logic works generally in comics, but simplify that Dc doesn't have a real power place for Lucifer's level.

It is not even proven that the Presensence in the true Omnipotent as even he stated that his power was shaped by external forces, meaning that he could merely be 2nd to god; and the Writers could either be The primal monitor, man of miracles or unknown: and making him the Living Tribunal of his Dc universe.

Lucifer's feats do somewhat rival that of the Living Tribunal, however the fact that only the One Above All surpasses the Living Tribunal, and Lucifer has superior to him in his universe, very clearly indicates; that hierachy alone, the Living Tribunal is superior.

The Living Tribunal is the judge of the Omniverse basically, and has stated to easily sacrifice billions to save trillions if needed to.

Lucifer has feats comparable, but I doubt he could easily negate or even negate the Thanos with the infinity gems, if he was in the Marvel Universe; I see him being just below the Living Tribunal, and slightly above the Infinity gems, or on the same level.

@kingant27:

It is not even proven that the Presensence in the true Omnipotent as even he stated that his power was shaped by external forces, meaning that he could merely be 2nd to god; and the Writers could either be The primal monitor, man of miracles or unknown: and making him the Living Tribunal of his Dc universe.

do you ever have an original thought in your life? have heard the argument so many times, and all you did is copy it. tell me, why do being shaped by external forces makes a being not omnipotent? he could be either talking about experience, or the writers.

the primal monitor is the page on which all writers make their creations, it has absolutely nothing to do with DC.

and man are you ignorant, the man of miracles is from freaking image!

Lucifer's feats do somewhat rival that of the Living Tribunal, however the fact that only the One Above All surpasses the Living Tribunal, and Lucifer has superior to him in his universe, very clearly indicates; that hierachy alone, the Living Tribunal is superior.

what the hell you talking about. look, god in the saint of killers comic is the strongest being in his universe, does he equal the presence? robocop is the strongest being in his, does he equal TOAA? stop using those arguments from 4 years ago.

The Living Tribunal is the judge of the Omniverse basically, and has stated to easily sacrifice billions to save trillions if needed to.

well, has he ever done that?no, but lucfer has, with his mere presence. a statement and a feat, are you so biased you choose the statement?

Lucifer has feats comparable, but I doubt he could easily negate or even negate the Thanos with the infinity gems, if he was in the Marvel Universe; I see him being just below the Living Tribunal, and slightly above the Infinity gems, or on the same level.

why do you doubt that? give a good reason.

let us conclude, you admit more than 2 times that lcufier has feats comparable to LT, yet because of your stubbornness, you think just because of their positions in their universes that they are not equal.as yoda would say; preposterous, you are.

@baron_von_santa: Status does matter, as Marvel Zues is Sky-father level, yet Thor, who is around herald level, managed to stalemate him in a fight that lasted months; but we all know Zues is more powerful.

@kingant27: of course status does not matter, that is what i have been trying to tell you for gods sake. you finally get it. and how do we know zeus is more powerful? if zeus gave his best and still stalemated him, then zeus is on thors level. it is that simple.

@baron_von_santa: I agree, but everyone on Comic Vine say Zeus is Sky-father level, meaning either Thor is much more powerful when he wants to be, or Zues is not as powerful.

If Lucifer is on par with Living Tribunal, then is Michael above; I think Michael and Lucifer are somewhat balanced, as while Michael is more powerful than Lucifer, but Lucifer is better with his powers making it kind of even IMO.

@kingant27: agree, but everyone on Comic Vine say Zeus is Sky-father level, meaning either Thor is much more powerful when he wants to be, or Zues is not as powerful.

i know what you mean, because just a few hours ago i thought the same way! please wait a few minutes while i find the thread, it is better for you to see the whole conversation than me explaining. i am arguing with someone else, and i share your pony of view;

@kingant27: okay, i can not find it. basically, i said zeus wins because he is a sky father, therefore should be above thanos level for being a sky father you must at least be above a certain level. but my opponent told me that a guy below thor became a sky father. and zeus's feats suggest otherwise.

If Lucifer is on par with Living Tribunal, then is Michael above; I think Michael and Lucifer are somewhat balanced, as while Michael is more powerful than Lucifer, but Lucifer is better with his powers making it kind of even IMO.

finally, this part i understand. well, michael IS above both lucifer and LT, and has as much experience as lucifer. remember, his feat is even better than molecule mans; when god left, everything in creation began to fade into nonexistence, even concepts such as willpower. and michael was renewing creation, writing gods name afresh on every atom of existence, on matter, energy, time, concepts. that feat alone triumphs everything lucifer and LT has ever done. and the fact he made everything in DC creation, shows he is above everything. he made everything.

The Living Tribunal stomps.

its really annoying when ppl right that with any statement, gives me hint that ur biased.

I would argue that Lucifer is above Michael since in the end of the series, Lucifer became unaffected to presence's will so Lucifer cant be affected by presence's creation right now to me Lucifer is unaffected by everything in creation.

^that was horrible explaining

@skyroid: he went outside creation. that does not affect his power level in any way. and at the end of the series, he gave up all his power.

michael is infinitely more powerful than lucifer. michael is the most powerful being in creation, and many angles admitted michael could have killed everyone with a gesture. but Michael hates fighting, which is why he has almost never used his power for fighting, but still can defeat even beings like spectre, both unbound and corrigan while not using the demiurgic power, thus limiting himself severely.

and try not to outright insult someone. this is 'merica!

@skyroid: I'd actually still maintain their powers as roughly equal, if not slightly veered towards Michael. Lucifer's power(being the source of pure, unbridled will) may have assisted him in the predilection to emancipate himself from the original creation/fully pursue his own independence, but Michael was always, to put it basically, "eager to please"(which is ultimately why The Prescence felt Lucifer was better suited to succeed him).

So it's not that Michael couldn't do what Lucifer did(personality, and idiosyncratic difference in powers aside)(and he's shown the same ability to maintain himself in the void outside of creation to no ill effect), it's just that it would never occur to him seriously.

It's essentially the main difference between Lucifer and Michael.

I agree.

was not insulting lol ik ur jk.

I forgot he gave up his power and made Mazikeen the new Morningstar.

I didn't mean in power but who would rather win and I believe Lucifer.

@skyroid: lucifer can not win against Michael. can LT win against pre retcon molecule man? can someone a shade weaker in power defeat someone more powerful than PR molecule man?

Gallery

michael can one-shot lucifer and all the rebel angels with a gesture.

second to god

michael doing something that makes molecule man recreating billions of universes look like a kid repairing a play dough man. (not really, but you get it)

@baron_von_santa said:

@skyroid: lucifer can not win against Michael. can LT win against pre retcon molecule man? can someone a shade weaker in power defeat someone more powerful than PR molecule man?

Gallery

michael can one-shot lucifer and all the rebel angels with a gesture.

second to god

michael doing something that makes molecule man recreating billions of universes look like a kid repairing a play dough man. (not really, but you get it)

hang on I am going to slam my head on a wall for awhile, my head is hurting.

yea I forgot how powerful Michael was.

@skyroid: lol, please do not do that, or you will end up like this guy:

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/most-powerful-nigh-omnipotent-being-ever-418392/?messageId=11910311&page=4#js-message-166

he sure made my day!

u cant blame a person for losing his brain sell can u

@skyroid: no, now i feel bad lol

Lucifer predates creation as he willed it into existence, LT is only the judge of his mutliverse, he had no hand in creating Marvel.

Im sorry, but Lucifer wins this.

BB

I find LT more inline with Spectre role in creation so Lucifer is a step up from that closest thing to the Presence.

this

Lucifer Morningstar wins here.

Lucifer wins, Lucifer Morningstar's will and shape/reality warping is infinite and is beyond that of the living tribunal, cuz he is the infinite will of god something the living tribunal is not, so he has endless reality warping that is beyond those of living tribunal, then there is his deadly manipulative cunning mind lol which is maybe all he will need.

"Lucifer, judgement time." (c) Living Tribunal.

Living Tribunal wins IMO.

They both die

@pablosl: LT= Michael +Lucifer

So LT wins this

Wrong. michael + lucifer = GOD ........... michael is the infinite power of god and lucifer is the infinite will of god

Lucifer wins!

Lucifer Win's.

michael + lucifer = God

Lt should win

lucifer

living morningstar

LT.

LT

Lucifer morningstar

Gabriel Eveningmoon

LT or stalemate.

When people say Michael + Lucifer = Living Tribunal, it's just so far off base. In my opinion there's an argument for both Brothers individually to be above LT. Nevertheless I think this is a stalemate or Lucifer slightly edging it. I believe the only beings that can put the Morningstar down permanently is an Omnipotent (His Father) or his own power used against him (Has already happened to a certain degree).

bump

LT stomps. 16-dimensional god > > > > > 11-dimensional god.

LT.

well i vote lucifer he did help create the dc multiverse and lucifer is stronger than myx this guy correct me if im wrong not WF myx cause to op

LT wins.

LT stomps.

Why does lt stomp

Lucifer godstomps dead tribunal

Why?

Lt