The Krew (Avatar) vs The Defenders of Earthrealm (MK)

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Joewell911

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The New Team Avatar takes on the Kombatants from Earthrealm!

VS
VS
No Caption Provided

( Just because they are pictured does not mean they are in this fight. )

The Krew

In this fight the Krew will be..

  • Avatar Korra
  • Mako
  • Bolin
  • Asami (Electric Glove and Future Industries Mecha Tank)
  • Tenzin
  • Lin Beifong

---

  • Morals on but determined to win.
  • Standard gear.
  • Everyone is in their peak.
  • 10 minutes prep with full knowledge.

Defenders of Earthrealm

Members in this fight

  • Raiden (Mortal From)
  • Liu Kang (Alive)
  • Sub Zero (Second)
  • Sonya Blade
  • Jax
  • Kitana

---

  • Morals on but determined to win.
  • Standard gear.
  • Composite version without amps.
  • 10 minutes prep with full knowledge.

The Setting

No Caption Provided
  • The fight takes place in the park above.
  • The opponents start 20 feet apart.
  • No BFR
  • Win by ko, kill, or incap of all the other team.

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deactivated-5dace575ce059

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Avatar

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Joewell911

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Heinrich7

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#5  Edited By Heinrich7

Gonna go with Team Avatar. I'd give reasons but I'm out atm.

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onilordasmodeus

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Raiden Solos...

No Caption Provided
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Joewell911

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@onilordasmodeus: He was amped in half of those scans. Plus this.

Loading Video...

Mako can redirect lightning.

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Sy8000

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I think Liu Kang and Sub-Zero might be too fast given they can fight Scorpion. Also all of Raiden's canon feats were performed when he was mortal (if by that you mean not Elder God), so except for some inconsistencies in MKX I'm inclined to say he's above any of the opposition by a handy margin.

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onilordasmodeus

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@joewell: Mako can redirect ONE bolt of lighting. As shown the video, a second bolt from a different direction can knock him out of his redirection.

And amp or not, Raiden controls lightning, and can do so on a massive scale. He would fry the entire team. If you want to make this fair, take him off the MK team.

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deactivated-5dace575ce059

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@joewell: better fighters, showed more feats a ton more of evading rather than simply blocking, can fight just as good in close quarters, and are more unique in fighting as well ( aka metal bending and so on ). MK is good, but avatar imo is on a whole different ball game.

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Joewell911

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I think Liu Kang and Sub-Zero might be too fast given they can fight Scorpion. Also all of Raiden's canon feats were performed when he was mortal (if by that you mean not Elder God), so except for some inconsistencies in MKX I'm inclined to say he's above any of the opposition by a handy margin.

Does Scorpion have any impressive speed feats? The best thing I know of him is beating someone who could react to bullets, but it's not like he blitzed him.

I think Avatar State Korra can keep up with him. She's a skyscraper-buster ya know.

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ssj_god

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#12  Edited By ssj_god

ok.. raiden is mortal..... but does he still retains his godly powers?... if yes.. then he solos

if no.. then korra (in avatar state) solos

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Sy8000

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@joewell said:
@highaccuser said:

I think Liu Kang and Sub-Zero might be too fast given they can fight Scorpion. Also all of Raiden's canon feats were performed when he was mortal (if by that you mean not Elder God), so except for some inconsistencies in MKX I'm inclined to say he's above any of the opposition by a handy margin.

Does Scorpion have any impressive speed feats? The best thing I know of him is beating someone who could react to bullets, but it's not like he blitzed him.

I think Avatar State Korra can keep up with him. She's a skyscraper-buster ya know.

I think he was blitzing Lin Kuei from the scans I've seen. I think that speed is above Avatar.

Avatar State is allowed? That could change things although I'd still be inclined to give Raiden the win if he fights smart and just teleports behind her and one-shots her although i suppose if he neglects to she'd take the edge.

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Joewell911

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@joewell: Mako can redirect ONE bolt of lighting. As shown the video, a second bolt from a different direction can knock him out of his redirection.

And amp or not, Raiden controls lightning, and can do so on a massive scale. He would fry the entire team. If you want to make this fair, take him off the MK team.

It would give the other benders a large enough opening to counter attack and force him to stop zapping everything.

The Benders could just avoid the area he's frying too, like Scorpion did in their fight.

Plus Korra can do this once she gets the chance.

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Joewell911

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@highaccuser: I'd like to see that..

It is allowed.

@ssj_god said:

ok.. raiden is mortal..... but does he still retains his godly powers?... if yes.. then he solos

if no.. then korra (in avatar state) solos

He has what he always uses in the tournaments and such.

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Sy8000

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@joewell said:

@highaccuser: I'd like to see that..

It is allowed.

@ssj_god said:

ok.. raiden is mortal..... but does he still retains his godly powers?... if yes.. then he solos

if no.. then korra (in avatar state) solos

He has what he always uses in the tournaments and such.

tournaments?... in game.. the mechanism is such that everyone can match everyone's powers (please.. i've defeated arceus with magikarp in a pokemon game)

and in the movies or such.. i don't remember raiden ever competing in mortal kombat tournament.. because he's a god.. and he's not just some lightning user... he IS lightning... in movie raiden (with his godly powers) alone could beat this bunch.. because he was moving as fast as lightning.

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Joewell911

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@ssj_god: I'm talking about in cutscene and stuff. His standard. I basically just meant non-Elder God non-amped.

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ssj_god

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#19  Edited By ssj_god

@joewell said:

@ssj_god: I'm talking about in cutscene and stuff. His standard. I basically just meant non-Elder God non-amped.

yes.. i am talking about just thunder god raiden (before he became an elder god).. even then he was pretty much above everyone.... shao kahn wasn't even a threat to him... just his brotherly love was preventing him from destroying him.... no one actually was even close to him except the elder gods (who were obviously way stronger).

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Joewell911

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@ssj_god said:
@joewell said:

@ssj_god: I'm talking about in cutscene and stuff. His standard. I basically just meant non-Elder God non-amped.

yes.. i am talking about just thunder god raiden (before he became an elder god).. even then he was pretty much above everyone.... shao kahn wasn't even a threat to him... just his brotherly love was preventing him to destroy him.... no one actually was even close to him except the elder gods (who were obviously way stronger).

Ya sure? The best feat I remember from him is destroying a palace trying to injure Onaga..

Shao Khan was kicking his butt in MK9 until the Elder Gods stepped in.

And this..

Loading Video...

Doesn't look like someone who can solo these benders..

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onilordasmodeus

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@joewell said:
@onilordasmodeus said:

@joewell: Mako can redirect ONE bolt of lighting. As shown the video, a second bolt from a different direction can knock him out of his redirection.

And amp or not, Raiden controls lightning, and can do so on a massive scale. He would fry the entire team. If you want to make this fair, take him off the MK team.

It would give the other benders a large enough opening to counter attack and force him to stop zapping everything.

The Benders could just avoid the area he's frying too, like Scorpion did in their fight.

Plus Korra can do this once she gets the chance.

Nobody on team avatar is going to avoid the Raiden's attack "like Scorpion did." Scorpion avoided Raiden's lightning by teleporting away, and nobody on TA is going to be doing that.

Also, Korra is powerful no doubt, and a large wave of water would hurt anyone who couldn't get out of the way. That being said, any of the kombatants can interrupt her attack by getting to her before she can muster the strength to do it. They have prep, so I would imagine they know that they need to stay on her and not give her the time to do the motions needed to bend water to that degree. 4 of the 6 on the MK team can teleport, and the other 2 carry a gun and are good shots. In a setting such as this, she's not getting away so easy.

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deactivated-5dace575ce059

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@onilordasmodeus: You used first season Korra, LOL in her first fight LOL. Thats like literally using movie versions of the MK team and claiming team avatar stomps based on that.

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xXxcarzellxXx

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Bolin drowns them in lava

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Joewell911

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#24  Edited By Joewell911

Nobody on team avatar is going to avoid the Raiden's attack "like Scorpion did." Scorpion avoided Raiden's lightning by teleporting away, and nobody on TA is going to be doing that.

Also, Korra is powerful no doubt, and a large wave of water would hurt anyone who couldn't get out of the way. That being said, any of the kombatants can interrupt her attack by getting to her before she can muster the strength to do it. They have prep, so I would imagine they know that they need to stay on her and not give her the time to do the motions needed to bend water to that degree. 4 of the 6 on the MK team can teleport, and the other 2 carry a gun and are good shots. In a setting such as this, she's not getting away so easy.

They have other methods. Bolin, Korra, and Lin could just earth shield everyone. Mako could redirect a portion of the attack. Tenzin and Korra can move everyone out the way with air bending. Anyone could attack him as he's flying into the air to use the attack. Etc.

The teleporters could get out the way, but I doubt anyone else could without help.

The kombatants could interrupt her, but they couldn't every time. She has 5 other team mates and earthbending makes a great defense.

Both sides get prep and knowledge. The benders can recognize what attacks the kombatants will do as well.

Sonya and Jax carry guns? If they do they sure as heck don't use them often. Plus metalbending.

I'm not saying the benders win. I think it's a very fair fight and either could take it. But Raiden isn't soloing. Not with an Avatar State Korra on the other team.

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onilordasmodeus

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#25  Edited By onilordasmodeus

@onilordasmodeus: You used first season Korra, LOL in her first fight LOL. Thats like literally using movie versions of the MK team and claiming team avatar stomps based on that.

I can post video of Korra being beaten outside of the avatar state in season 4 as well if you want?

Loading Video...
Loading Video...

Early in the series, or late in the series, Korra is vulnerable to more skilled opponents outside of the AS, and as such has been woefully outclassed in skill multiple times throughout the series.

To be honest, Kuvira in the last season...I think she would have been destroyed by Amon (S1) or Zaheer (S3), not sure about S2 villain (can't remember his name), but yeah, there is now question that Korra got better at bending as the series went on, but IMO her h2h skill never became "world class" in level.

All of the MK characters in this fight are world class fighters, chosen by the gods (Raiden; a ridiculous h2h fighter himself) to represent and protect Earth.

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xXxcarzellxXx

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#26  Edited By xXxcarzellxXx

@onilordasmodeus: idk why you posted the final fight Korra clearly won that and the first one was unbalanced Korra use season 2 or 3 instead of attempting to lowball

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onilordasmodeus

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@joewell said:
@onilordasmodeus said:

Nobody on team avatar is going to avoid the Raiden's attack "like Scorpion did." Scorpion avoided Raiden's lightning by teleporting away, and nobody on TA is going to be doing that.

Also, Korra is powerful no doubt, and a large wave of water would hurt anyone who couldn't get out of the way. That being said, any of the kombatants can interrupt her attack by getting to her before she can muster the strength to do it. They have prep, so I would imagine they know that they need to stay on her and not give her the time to do the motions needed to bend water to that degree. 4 of the 6 on the MK team can teleport, and the other 2 carry a gun and are good shots. In a setting such as this, she's not getting away so easy.

They have other methods. Bolin, Korra, and Lin could just earth shield everyone. Mako could redirect a portion of the attack. Tenzin and Korra can move everyone out the way with air bending. Anyone could attack him as he's flying into the air to use the attack. Etc.

The teleporters could get out the way, but I doubt anyone else could without help.

The kombatants could interrupt her, but they couldn't every time. She has 5 other team mates and earthbending makes a great defense.

Both sides get prep and knowledge. The benders can recognize what attacks the kombatants will do as well.

Sonya and Jax carry guns? If they do they sure as heck don't use them often. Plus metalbending.

I'm not saying the benders win. I think it's a very fair fight and either could take it. But Raiden isn't soloing. Not with an Avatar State Korra on the other team.

I hear you on all counts (except the Raiden not soloing bit). None of the other kombatants here would roll over any of these TA fighters, but Raiden wildly tips the scale IMO.

And about Sonya and Jax not using guns often...

So far every time we've seen Sonya walk into a frame in the comic, she's had a side arm on her, and Jax has used a gun in game since MKDA. MKX Jax is shown using a rocket launcher in game, on top of a submachine gun, though he doesn't use it in the story mode for various reasons (he does though in the MK vs. DCU game though).

Like I've been saying, Raiden would kill them all. Whether it be through electrocution, or if he just self destructs, it makes no difference seeing as Raiden is an eternal being who cares nothing about mortal death.

This would be a really fun fight the theory craft about, but with Raiden on the team, it's just not a fair fight.

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Urban_Ninja_X

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@joewell: I saw that you tagged me for this battle, but then removed my name. =\ It's okay, though, I forgive you.

I might as well start off by saying that Sub-Zero has the Dragon Medallion, which makes him nearly omnipotent in power. Though we haven't seen the full extent of this power, it's safe to say that he is at least on par, so far, with Shinnok using the Dragon Amulet (not the real name, I forgot what it was called; the Dragon Amulet absorbed the Power of Earthrealm). Per his ending cut-scene and thanks to being the Grandmaster, Sub-Zero can call upon three Frost Dragons to help in battle.

As for Raiden's ending cut-scene, he had re-absorbed the Power of Earthrealm and mixed in his own Godly energy, purifying the Energy of Earthrealm after Shinnok spoiled it. He then stepped into the Energy of Earthrealm Vortex and expanded his energy within it. This is where we last see Raiden in the game, so I suggest we use this version and imply what his power is based on how it affected Shinnok. In other words, he would be as powerful as Shinnok with the Amulet as well as Sub-Zero with the Dragon Medallion.

Liu Kang, on the one hand, has his ending cut-scene showing him taking over the Netherrealm and using Netherrealm demon warriors to conquer, his sight on Earthrealm. As Leader of the Netherrealm, he should have a means of using these demon warriors to fight alongside him and the others, just like how Sub-Zero has the Frost Dragons as standard equipment while being the Grandmaster. Especially since they have 10 minutes prep, and all.

Sonja Blade, Jax and Kitana would be distractions, but Sub-Zero, Liu Kang and Raiden (the MVP) begetting the most conflict.

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onilordasmodeus

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#29  Edited By onilordasmodeus

@xxxcarzellxxx said:

@onilordasmodeus: idk why you posted the final fight Korra clearly won that and the first one was unbalanced Korra use season 2 or 3 instead of attempting to lowball

Let me say this, I love Korra as a character. I love the whole avatar series in general. I'm not going to lowball her, I'm just telling it like it is.

The reason I posted S4, was because I was called out on using S1, @killerwasp saying that S1 Korra was a newbie essentially. S4 was when she was her most seasoned, and again, was a battle that showcased her skill outside of the AS. Regardless, S1, S2, S3, or S4, it doesn't matter, AS vs. Raiden is a loosing battle...

Edit: After re-watching the final battles of S2 (Unalaq) and S3 (Zaheer), I realize just how much I was right in the fact that those battles took place while Korra was pretty much exclusively fighting in the avatar state.

Loading Video...
Loading Video...

With the teams the way they are, this battle is decided between Avatar State Korra, and Thunder God Raiden. In My book Raiden wins this 10/10 times. He would shred her.

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Joewell911

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@joewell: I saw that you tagged me for this battle, but then removed my name. =\ It's okay, though, I forgive you.

I might as well start off by saying that Sub-Zero has the Dragon Medallion, which makes him nearly omnipotent in power. Though we haven't seen the full extent of this power, it's safe to say that he is at least on par, so far, with Shinnok using the Dragon Amulet (not the real name, I forgot what it was called; the Dragon Amulet absorbed the Power of Earthrealm). Per his ending cut-scene and thanks to being the Grandmaster, Sub-Zero can call upon three Frost Dragons to help in battle.

As for Raiden's ending cut-scene, he had re-absorbed the Power of Earthrealm and mixed in his own Godly energy, purifying the Energy of Earthrealm after Shinnok spoiled it. He then stepped into the Energy of Earthrealm Vortex and expanded his energy within it. This is where we last see Raiden in the game, so I suggest we use this version and imply what his power is based on how it affected Shinnok. In other words, he would be as powerful as Shinnok with the Amulet as well as Sub-Zero with the Dragon Medallion.

Liu Kang, on the one hand, has his ending cut-scene showing him taking over the Netherrealm and using Netherrealm demon warriors to conquer, his sight on Earthrealm. As Leader of the Netherrealm, he should have a means of using these demon warriors to fight alongside him and the others, just like how Sub-Zero has the Frost Dragons as standard equipment while being the Grandmaster. Especially since they have 10 minutes prep, and all.

Sonja Blade, Jax and Kitana would be distractions, but Sub-Zero, Liu Kang and Raiden (the MVP) begetting the most conflict.

Your name is still there. At the end of the Mk tags. Why would I remove your name?

That medallion would be an amp, which I specifically said no one has in the OP.

Do you not think Korra can contend with Raiden?

We shouldn't use speculation like that. I think we should base his power level off what is constantly shown, not this ending that we can't even be sure is canon.

I hear you on all counts (except the Raiden not soloing bit). None of the other kombatants here would roll over any of these TA fighters, but Raiden wildly tips the scale IMO.

And about Sonya and Jax not using guns often...

So far every time we've seen Sonya walk into a frame in the comic, she's had a side arm on her, and Jax has used a gun in game since MKDA. MKX Jax is shown using a rocket launcher in game, on top of a submachine gun, though he doesn't use it in the story mode for various reasons (he does though in the MK vs. DCU game though).

Like I've been saying, Raiden would kill them all. Whether it be through electrocution, or if he just self destructs, it makes no difference seeing as Raiden is an eternal being who cares nothing about mortal death.

This would be a really fun fight the theory craft about, but with Raiden on the team, it's just not a fair fight.

How? His destructive output is less than Korra's, his versatility is less than Korra's, the only thing he beats her in is skill and strength. Korra can take him out with one attack or two attacks and has the speed to land that attack. There's also the fact that in character he fights like a dumb@ss. See the fight with the fodder above and when he and Fujin goes against Quan chi and his revenants. I doubt he'd start off with any mass soling attack.

Just because they have them doesn't mean they'll use them. They rarely use them in character, so there is no reason for them to here.

How? Why didn't he just do that against the demons? In-character he isn't soloing anything. Korra alone could possibly beat him.

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onilordasmodeus

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#31  Edited By onilordasmodeus

@urban_ninja_x said:

@joewell: I saw that you tagged me for this battle, but then removed my name. =\ It's okay, though, I forgive you.

I might as well start off by saying that (1) Sub-Zero has the Dragon Medallion, which makes him nearly omnipotent in power. Though we haven't seen the full extent of this power, (2) it's safe to say that he is at least on par, so far, with Shinnok using the Dragon Amulet (not the real name, I forgot what it was called; the Dragon Amulet absorbed the Power of Earthrealm). (3) Per his ending cut-scene and thanks to being the Grandmaster, Sub-Zero can call upon three Frost Dragons to help in battle.

As for Raiden's ending cut-scene, he had re-absorbed the Power of Earthrealm and mixed in his own Godly energy, purifying the Energy of Earthrealm after Shinnok spoiled it. He then stepped into the Energy of Earthrealm Vortex and expanded his energy within it. This is where we last see Raiden in the game, so I suggest we use this version and imply what his power is based on how it affected Shinnok. In other words, he would be as powerful as Shinnok with the Amulet as well as Sub-Zero with the Dragon Medallion.

(5) Liu Kang, on the one hand, has his ending cut-scene showing him taking over the Netherrealm and using Netherrealm demon warriors to conquer, his sight on Earthrealm. As Leader of the Netherrealm, he should have a means of using these demon warriors to fight alongside him and the others, just like how Sub-Zero has the Frost Dragons as standard equipment while being the Grandmaster. Especially since they have 10 minutes prep, and all.

Sonja Blade, Jax and Kitana would be distractions, but Sub-Zero, Liu Kang and Raiden (the MVP) begetting the most conflict.

1) The Dragon Medallion DOES NOT make Subzero omnipotent. It enhances his power at the expense of adding years on to his life. He is stronger yes, but a god? No.

2) With the DM, Subzero is still leagues below Raiden in terms of power, who is himself also well below Shinnok in terms of experience and power. Subzero is still a mortal, and the only time he could have ever been considered a god was in his non-canon MKA ending, where he was given Blaze's essence, which turned him into an Ice God.

3) None of the endings in the arcade mode of MKX are canon (yet). You can't/shouldn't use those unless there use is stipulated in the OP. And even though the OP says that the MK characters are composite versions of themselves, I still wouldn't use them unless they showcase a feat of power or skill that is inside the realm of possibility that the characters can use with no amp, in current canon.

4) At best you can say Raiden absorbed Shinnok's corruption, but not his power. Raiden was recharged and healed at the end of the MKX story, but he was also transformed in to Dark Raiden, a variation on the corrupted version of himself from Armageddon. As Dark Raiden he isn't stronger (at least he hasn't been shown to be as much), he's just blood-lusted, and willing to employ tactics that normal Raiden wouldn't; i.e. invade Outworld.

5) In this battle, Liu Kang is still alive, thus he does not have dominion over the Netherrealm.

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Alakemega123

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#32  Edited By Alakemega123

I'm going for earth realm as The legend of korra benders were really underwhelming

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onilordasmodeus

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#33  Edited By onilordasmodeus

@joewell said:
@onilordasmodeus said:

I hear you on all counts (except the Raiden not soloing bit). None of the other kombatants here would roll over any of these TA fighters, but Raiden wildly tips the scale IMO.

And about Sonya and Jax not using guns often...

So far every time we've seen Sonya walk into a frame in the comic, she's had a side arm on her, and Jax has used a gun in game since MKDA. MKX Jax is shown using a rocket launcher in game, on top of a submachine gun, though he doesn't use it in the story mode for various reasons (he does though in the MK vs. DCU game though).

Like I've been saying, Raiden would kill them all. Whether it be through electrocution, or if he just self destructs, it makes no difference seeing as Raiden is an eternal being who cares nothing about mortal death.

This would be a really fun fight the theory craft about, but with Raiden on the team, it's just not a fair fight.

How? His destructive output is less than Korra's, his versatility is less than Korra's, the only thing he beats her in is skill and strength. Korra can take him out with one attack or two attacks and has the speed to land that attack. There's also the fact that in character he fights like a dumb@ss. See the fight with the fodder above and when he and Fujin goes against Quan chi and his revenants. I doubt he'd start off with any mass soling attack.

Just because they have them doesn't mean they'll use them. They rarely use them in character, so there is no reason for them to here.

How? Why didn't he just do that against the demons? In-character he isn't soloing anything. Korra alone could possibly beat him.

When Raiden fought Shinnok in MKM, their battle killed the dinosaurs. Raiden's destructive power is planetary.

And the "fodder" that Raiden and Fujin were fighting against in MKX were beings that had Shinnok's power flowing through them. You could see that Raiden and Fujin had little trouble with the run of the mill apparitions (the same ones in the old MK4 comic), but the revenants were tougher to deal with, especially with Quan Chi and Shinnok backing them up. Shinnok's power is ridiculous too, as every single one of those demons came from him and his power. As Raiden and Fujin were killing them, Shinnok was just likely spawning more.

If you don't want Sonya or jax to use guns, just bar them from the battle, otherwise they are tools they use, and have used, in combat many times. You could see Sonya using a gun in MKX's story mode too, as her and JC were leading a bunch of troops (who were also carrying and using guns) in order to fight their way to the Jinsei chamber.

Also, Raiden did use his area affect electrifying ability against the demons, but it wasn't in MKX...see the first scan I posted. That is Raiden electrifying Shinnok's "devils" after they took down Fujin in the OG timeline of MK4. And about Raiden not exploding during MKX against the demons, Raiden's objective was to protect the Earth's jinsei from Shinnok. If he had exploded in order to take out the demons, who would have stopped Shinnok?

Call it PIS or whatever, because we have hindsight now to know that Cage with his "green glow" could fight on a godly level, but at the time, Raiden and Fujin were the only obstacles in between Shinnok and his end goal.

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1) The Dragon Medallion DOES NOT make Subzero omnipotent. It enhances his power at the expense of adding years on to his life. He is stronger yes, but a god? No.

2) With the DM, Subzero is still leagues below Raiden in terms of power, who is himself also well below Shinnok in terms of experience and power. Subzero is still a mortal, and the only time he could have ever been considered a god was in his non-canon MKA ending, where he was given Blaze's essence, which turned him into an Ice God.

3) None of the endings in the arcade mode of MKX are canon (yet). You can't/shouldn't use those unless there use is stipulated in the OP. And even though the OP says that the MK characters are composite versions of themselves, I still wouldn't use them unless they showcase a feat of power or skill that is inside the realm of possibility that the characters can use no with no amp, in current canon.

4) At best you can say Raiden absorbed Shinnok's corruption, but not his power. Raiden was recharged and healed at the end of the MKX story, but he was also transformed in to Dark Raiden, a variation on the corrupted version of himself from Armageddon. As Dark Raiden he isn't stronger (at least he hasn't been shown to be as much), he's just blood-lusted, and willing to employ tactics that normal Raiden wouldn't; i.e. invade Outworld.

5) In this battle, Liu Kang is still alive, thus he does not have dominion over the Netherrealm.

1. I said "nearly omnipotent," not that he was. Nearly would mean that he's close. The Dragon Medallion enhances his Cryomancer powers and physical stats to absurd levels.

2. The only reason you could say he's leagues below Raiden is because we haven't seen exactly what he can do with the full power of the Dragon Medallion. Up until now, there really hasn't any arc/story that pits him using it extensively. However, from what I know of Deadly Alliance (iirc), we got to see a little of that power.

3/4. Yes, the ending cut-scenes are not canon, but they are usable (in CV battles) for each character respectively. Raiden specifically takes the "corruption" in story-mode, which I was alluding to in my initial post, and implants his own energy to purify it. I clearly stated he took back the Energy of Earthrealm. He was transformed briefly into Dark Raiden, sure, when he absorbed the EoE. And yes, he was stronger, parallel to how powerful Shinnok became (I don't mean they were equal); however, he could barely contain it. Composite characters or not, Sub-Zero still has the Dragon Medallion and Frost Dragons at his disposal. And as such, so does Raiden with the EoE.

5. In his ending cut-scene, Lui Kang wasn't dead when he entered the Netherrealm.

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When Raiden fought Shinnok in MKM, their battle killed the dinosaurs. Raiden's destructive power is planetary.

And the "fodder" that Raiden and Fujin were fighting against in MKX were beings that had Shinnok's power flowing through them. You could see that Raiden and Fujin had little trouble with the run of the mill apparitions (the same ones in the old MK4 comic), but the revenants were tougher to deal with, especially with Quan Chi and Shinnok backing them up. Shinnok's power is ridiculous too, as every single one of those demons came from him and his power. As Raiden and Fujin were killing them, Shinnok was just likely spawning more.

If you don't want Sonya or jax to use guns, just bar them from the battle, otherwise they are tools they use, and have used, in combat many times. You could see Sonya using a gun in MKX's story mode too, as her and JC were leading a bunch of troops (who were also carrying and using guns) in order to fight their way to the Jinsei chamber.

Also, Raiden did use his area affect electrifying ability against the demons, but it wasn't in MKX...see the first scan I posted. That is Raiden electrifying Shinnok's "devils" after they took down Fujin in the OG timeline of MK4. And about Raiden not exploding during MKX against the demons, Raiden's objective was to protect the Earth's jinsei from Shinnok. If he had exploded in order to take out the demons, who would have stopped Shinnok?

Call it PIS or whatever, because we have hindsight now to know that Cage with his "green glow" could fight on a godly level, but at the time, Raiden and Fujin were the only obstacles in between Shinnok and his end goal.

Can you prove that with a video or scan or something? I have trouble believe he can do that when he loses to fodder and struggles with street tier characters.

They could be cut by normal weapons and only method of attack was your basic scratching or biting. They were weak sauce and Raiden was tagged multiple times by them.

Against fodder, but never against actual opponents like here.

Yup. But I've shown him not doing it more times than he has done it, so he probably wouldn't do it here. As for exploding, I don't think he would put his team in danger like that. Even if he did, what kind of DC does he even cause while doing that?

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@onilordasmodeus: You're trying to apply that fight scene as for her whole season, acting like she never suffered before? Dude you do realize why she lost the fight right?

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1. I said "nearly omnipotent," not that he was. Nearly would mean that he's close. The Dragon Medallion enhances his Cryomancer powers and physical stats to absurd levels.

2. The only reason you could say he's leagues below Raiden is because we haven't seen exactly what he can do with the full power of the Dragon Medallion. Up until now, there really hasn't any arc/story that pits him using it extensively. However, from what I know of Deadly Alliance (iirc), we got to see a little of that power.

3/4. Yes, the ending cut-scenes are not canon, but they are usable (in CV battles) for each character respectively. Raiden specifically takes the "corruption" in story-mode, which I was alluding to in my initial post, and implants his own energy to purify it. I clearly stated he took back the Energy of Earthrealm. He was transformed briefly into Dark Raiden, sure, when he absorbed the EoE. And yes, he was stronger, parallel to how powerful Shinnok became (I don't mean they were equal); however, he could barely contain it. Composite characters or not, Sub-Zero still has the Dragon Medallion and Frost Dragons at his disposal. And as such, so does Raiden with the EoE.

5. In his ending cut-scene, Lui Kang wasn't dead when he entered the Netherrealm.

1) Saying "nigh (near) omnipotent" and the "Dragon Medallion" in the same sentence is wrong. The DM amps Subzero's "kori' abilities to a greater degree at the expense of adding years onto his life, and this is explained further in MKDA when they write that he was now able to create more intricate creations with his abilities. They use examples like the Kori Blade that he created, and the boat he created in DA's Konquest mode. Never has it even been hinted at that his powers were amped to a godly level, or as you put it, "absurd levels".

Furthermore, the DM doesn't affect his physical stats, those were amped with his Cryomancer Armor in MK Deception. Even then, Subzero wasn't portrayed as an omnipotent being, but more just a ridiculously adept mortal. The best showcase of his abilities at that point was in his Deception ending where he defeated a band of Tarkatans in the Living Forest.

2) There isn't even a hint in the MK Lore that suggests that the DM would give him that type of power. I would love to see what you base this on.

3/4) No. The only time you can use ending is if they are canon, or if they showcase an ability/situation that the character could conceivably do in current canon. In MK Gold, Shinnok was seen destroying multiple people with single blasts; in MK3 Raiden and Shao Kahn fought and shook the Earth with there battle; those are examples of characters doing things in endings with no amps, things they could do in the present under their own power.

Subzero NEVER went Outworld to get Frost Dragons. Sure he could (I guess), but he never did, thus you can't say that for this battle (with 10 mins prep) that he went to Outworld, found a Frost Dragon, stole its eggs and hatched them, and trained both the dragons and the Lin Kuei in Dragon Rider combat. Hell, the OP just states that Subzero is in this fight, I doubt he could even call any part of the Lin Kuei to help at all.

And about Raiden and Shinnok, I feel that we both are speculating somewhat, so why don't we just reign things back in for a bit. What we know is that Shinnok used the amulet to corrupt the Jinsei, then he used that amulet to amp himself by absorbing said Jinsei. After Shinnok was defeated however, Raiden entered the Jinsei to purify it of its corruption, and he also took back the stolen energy from Shinnok. Raiden was successful in purifying Earth, and was ultimately healed by the Jinsei, but it did take a large toll on Raiden overall. Later we see Raiden portrayed as Dark Raiden, and we also see that he has Shinnok's amulet on his chest.

From all this we can gather that Raiden is indeed Dark Raiden, seeing as he not only looks the part, but he also seemingly has no issue toting around the Amulet. This is further exemplified when we see that in a few endings he decided to invade Outworld, rather than play defense like he's done for millennia.

Dark Raiden IS NOT more powerful than Regular Raiden, and this is explained in MK Deception and Armageddon when they essentially said he is just doesn't give a crap about humans anymore. All DR's intentions are focused around protecting Earthrealm, not it's inhabitants, and he will do so by any means necessary. All that said though, DR does have Shinnok's amulet, and is seemingly willing to use it. Knowing that we can say that he is more powerful since he has the amulet, but he never got a boost in power from the corrupted Jinsei itself, any more than he has in the past.

5) Liu Kang has been dead for years since before the events of MKX even started. Just because the art portraying him as seemingly alive doesn't mean anything because the story dictates that he was dead. FYI: Kung Lao's art portrays him as alive too, same with Kitana, but we know they are both dead still because the story says so.

@joewell said:

Can you prove that with a video or scan or something? I have trouble believe he can do that when he loses to fodder and struggles with street tier characters.

They could be cut by normal weapons and only method of attack was your basic scratching or biting. They were weak sauce and Raiden was tagged multiple times by them.

Against fodder, but never against actual opponents like here.

Yup. But I've shown him not doing it more times than he has done it, so he probably wouldn't do it here. As for exploding, I don't think he would put his team in danger like that. Even if he did, what kind of DC does he even cause while doing that?

"[Shinnok] first would have to face the young god of thunder known as [Raiden[, who was appointed as Earth's guardian by the Elder Gods themselves. Their battle for the realm of Earth was fierce; causing the planet's near destruction and plunging it into centuries of darkness. But, the thunder god eventually won as Shinnok's overconfidence proved to be his undoing." - MK Mythologies

http://www.mksecrets.net/index.php?section=mkmsz&lang=eng&contentID=4010

The story is expanded on slightly in multiple bios and endings through the series where it is told that Reptile's Saurian / Raptor race had fled Earthrealm during Shinnok's and Raiden's war, to the now decimated realm of Zaterra. Raiden's battle left the Earth in such a horrible state that the planet was pretty much in unlivable conditions that the dinosaurs died off, but the more evolved Raptors migrated to another world (most of them anyway).

And you calling the demons, even the revenants, "weak sauce" is kind of just like your opinion man, and is not really based on the facts of the situation. In MKX's story, just the run of the mill demons were seemingly tanking the automatic fire from the soldiers, as the only time you saw one go down by way of bullets was when one was shot down by one of the military helicopters. While those things were destroying whole armies, Raiden and Fujin were holding their own in Raiden's temple against what looks like thousands. The only time Raiden and Funjin were on the ropes was when Shinnok showed up and compelled all the revenants to fight in front of him, and even then it was Shinnok with the amulet who landed the final blow to put them down.

Bottom line is it isn't how many times you get hit, it is how many times you get hit and keep going. Through all of that, Raiden and Fujin were still on their feet...again, until Shinnok.

Oh, and what is a DC?

@onilordasmodeus: You're trying to apply that fight scene as for her whole season, acting like she never suffered before? Dude you do realize why she lost the fight right?

How about instead of shooting down every video I post, saying there are better videos, why don't you post a link or two? Or just post what you think are her best showings that would prove your case.

I can post a host of feats for a composite Raiden, all of which I think would show that even AS Korra would be out classed.

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@onilordasmodeus: If you want a video or two, i can do that, down below

Loading Video...

another one,

Loading Video...

Energy weapon out does ur raiden lightning.

Anyway, I wasn't shooting your video downs, you just didnt understand the context behind them, for example the first time you tried to downplay Korra in the first video you gave us, was basically her first fight against an actual threat. She did have a fight before than but it was very sloppy and very easy in a sense. The second time you tried to downplay her against Kuvira, was when she still had poison in her body, and was stated to be literally off balance, said by toph down below

Loading Video...

With that said, this is why I asked questions to you because I got a feeling you dont understand the context in between or during these fights as why Korra was struggling.

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@onilordasmodeus:

"[Shinnok] first would have to face the young god of thunder known as [Raiden[, who was appointed as Earth's guardian by the Elder Gods themselves. Their battle for the realm of Earth was fierce; causing the planet's near destruction and plunging it into centuries of darkness. But, the thunder god eventually won as Shinnok's overconfidence proved to be his undoing." - MK Mythologies

http://www.mksecrets.net/index.php?section=mkmsz&lang=eng&contentID=4010

The story is expanded on slightly in multiple bios and endings through the series where it is told that Reptile's Saurian / Raptor race had fled Earthrealm during Shinnok's and Raiden's war, to the now decimated realm of Zaterra. Raiden's battle left the Earth in such a horrible state that the planet was pretty much in unlivable conditions that the dinosaurs died off, but the more evolved Raptors migrated to another world (most of them anyway).

And you calling the demons, even the revenants, "weak sauce" is kind of just like your opinion man, and is not really based on the facts of the situation. In MKX's story, just the run of the mill demons were seemingly tanking the automatic fire from the soldiers, as the only time you saw one go down by way of bullets was when one was shot down by one of the military helicopters. While those things were destroying whole armies, Raiden and Fujin were holding their own in Raiden's temple against what looks like thousands. The only time Raiden and Funjin were on the ropes was when Shinnok showed up and compelled all the revenants to fight in front of him, and even then it was Shinnok with the amulet who landed the final blow to put them down.

Bottom line is it isn't how many times you get hit, it is how many times you get hit and keep going. Through all of that, Raiden and Fujin were still on their feet...again, until Shinnok.

Oh, and what is a DC?

Yea, that's high end af. Literally the only time he does anything like that ever. We should use the things he does more consistently. There are several reasons that isn't planetary anyways.

  1. That was while fighting Shinnok, aka, not all him.
  2. It's not very specific. That could have been throughout many years or in just a day. If it was the former ( Which is more likely considering his consistent feats ) then it's not that impressive.
  3. The planet wasn't really destroyed, just torn up. I take it as more like the world was war torn then actually destroyed.

Look at them. They are hardly better than a normal human. Heck, fodder benders are more formidable than them.

They never took any gun fire. The soldiers had your typical can't aim for sh!t syndrom.

They only destroyed armies because they could fly out of guns reach. And because fodder aren't allow to hit things.

Raiden and Fujin were on the ropes the whole time. They constantly needed help from each other and were getting tagged.

Except here they won't be able to get tagged as many times. The benders can put them down in far less attacks and Korra can possibly one shot.

DC=Destructive Capability.

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onilordasmodeus

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@killerwasp: Why did you just post 2 videos that I already posted?

FYI: I've seen everything.

  • I know about her lack of experience in S1.
  • I know about her lack of knowledge about the spirits, her being cut off from the avatar line, and ultimately overcoming Unalaq and Vaatu with the help of Raava in S2.
  • I know about the poison in S3, and how that affect her fight against Zaheer.
  • I know about her struggle to "get back in sync" in S4

I know all the context of every instance in both Avatar series, and that is why I can confidently say that she looses to Raiden.

Strength: Raiden has the physical strength to lift a plane, as well as punch through a concrete bridge.

Durability: On top of being able to punch/fly through a bridge, beings of Raiden's race have fallen from heaven like comets and hit the ground leaving craters (Fujin MK4 comic). Raiden also has an innate healing factor, as well as can manually heal himself and others.

Speed: Raiden has the ability to teleport, meaning he has access to instant movement. Many of Raiden's attacks are also at the speed of lightning, and his reactions are much the same, if not beyond.

Fighting Ability / Experience: Raiden officially know THOUSANDS of different combat forms, including over 700 forms of Jujutsu. Since his beginning (the beginning of Earth) he has been fighting, and has defeated stronger beings than Korra has even encountered.

Energy Projection: Raiden's power can be projected on a planetary scale. Coupled with the fact that he has instant movement, he can be in and out of her range faster than she will know.

So yeah, where does she have an advantage? I haven't even brought up Raiden's ability to go intangible and "infect" her body with electricity and make her explode...

Loading Video...

Up close she's dominated. From afar she's dominated. At mid range she's dominated. Not even in her giant AS could she stop him, so what are her options?

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onilordasmodeus

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@joewell said:

Yea, that's high end af. Literally the only time he does anything like that ever. We should use the things he does more consistently. There are several reasons that isn't planetary anyways.

  1. That was while fighting Shinnok, aka, not all him.
  2. It's not very specific. That could have been throughout many years or in just a day. If it was the former ( Which is more likely considering his consistent feats ) then it's not that impressive.
  3. The planet wasn't really destroyed, just torn up. I take it as more like the world was war torn then actually destroyed.

Look at them. They are hardly better than a normal human. Heck, fodder benders are more formidable than them.

They never took any gun fire. The soldiers had your typical can't aim for sh!t syndrom.

They only destroyed armies because they could fly out of guns reach. And because fodder aren't allow to hit things.

Raiden and Fujin were on the ropes the whole time. They constantly needed help from each other and were getting tagged.

Except here they won't be able to get tagged as many times. The benders can put them down in far less attacks and Korra can possibly one shot.

DC=Destructive Capability.

1) Korra fighting Unalaq in S2 couldn't have been on the same of Raiden and Shinnok, I say that to point out that their battle was nowhere near the scale of Raiden's batte. Though Korra's fight in this instance held the fate of the two realms in the balance, their actual battle only threatened a relatively small area on the planet. In comparison, Raiden's biggest battle literally made the world uninhabitable for hundreds of years afterward (and he won), while Korra's was nowhere near that level.

2) They had a singular battle, and it was that battle that led to all the destruction. That is a good point though, as the battle could have lasted an extended period, but all it does is make me question Korra longevity. What makes you think she could hang with Raiden over the long haul?

3) The source material says "their battle for the realm of Earth was fierce; causing the planet's near destruction..." It isn't me you are arguing against on this point. Regardless, the planet was pretty much uninhabitable for hundreds of years afterwards.

Again, you are trying to lowball those demons, and in turn low ball both Raiden and Fujin, when the facts are right there. It took Helicopters, tanks, machine guns, and all manner of military tech to just hold those teeth and claws at bay, and they weren't doing that great of a job. Benders vs. those demons would end the same way as those demons vs. the military, with the benders not doing that great of a job of not getting rip apart.

The scene where Raiden and Fujin were fighting had been going on for some time before too. Who knows how many they had taken down before, but while the demons were one-shotting the soldiers, Raiden and Fujin were one-shotting them. There were thousands of them around, attacking from all angles, but you trying to argue that these super-human beings (super strength, durably, mobility) attacking by the thousands are "weak sauce." Come on now, man.

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@onilordasmodeus: Because i wasn't paying attention, thats why LOL *face palm*

If you knew everything then you wouldn't of stated what you did, unless u were trying to low ball her, if thats the case im not arguing this any further.

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onilordasmodeus

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@onilordasmodeus: Because i wasn't paying attention, thats why LOL *face palm*

If you knew everything then you wouldn't of stated what you did, unless u were trying to low ball her, if thats the case im not arguing this any further.

So you weren't really responding to me or my posts at all. Ok.

Again, if you disagree with my assessment, correct me. So far you've done nothing but disagree with me while not offering any of your own opinions or stances. That is kind of the opposite of what these debates are suppose to be about.

I've posted specifics about Raiden, that I think put him over the top of Korra. How would you dispute them?

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@onilordasmodeus said:
@killerwasp said:

@onilordasmodeus: Because i wasn't paying attention, thats why LOL *face palm*

If you knew everything then you wouldn't of stated what you did, unless u were trying to low ball her, if thats the case im not arguing this any further.

So you weren't really responding to me or my posts at all. Ok.

Again, if you disagree with my assessment, correct me. So far you've done nothing but disagree with me while not offering any of your own opinions or stances. That is kind of the opposite of what these debates are suppose to be about.

I've posted specifics about Raiden, that I think put him over the top of Korra. How would you dispute them?

No because I had an airhead moment, I think you took that a different way than i meant , and for that my apologizes.

What, what exactly did I disagree with you on? all I stated from my very first response to you was this,

@onilordasmodeus: You used first season Korra, LOL in her first fight LOL. Thats like literally using movie versions of the MK team and claiming team avatar stomps based on that.

-# 22 for the comment,

Thats all I said i disagreed with you using low balling evidence to try and support your claim, so again please do say where I'm arguing against you at?

I don't because point have already pointed out that was an amp upped raiden, which in turn means you will try to low ball korra and high ball raiden, something I'm not interested in.

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MErulezall

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Avatar by a landslide.