The Illuminati vs the Ultimates

Marvel's Illuminati:

• Black Bolt
• Black Panther (KoTD Non-Vibranium Suit)
• Iron Man
• Namor
• Captain Britain

VERSUS

Marvel's Ultimates:

• Spectrum
• Black Panther (Post Secret Wars- Vibranium Suit)
• Captain Marvel
• Blue Marvel
• America Chavez

Battle Rules & Stipulations:

• Combatants are in character/Morals on
• This is a random encounter (no prep for either side) and both teams have standard gear. This is Earth 616 versions of all characters
• They're fighting in a generic city setting. It takes place during the day and they start roughly 100 feet apart and visible. Everything in the city (let's say the city is the size of Manhattan and surrounded by ocean) is on limits.
• Incapacitation, knockout, BFR or death all count as elimination.

Battleground:

If I have this too lopsided one way or another. Just let me know and give a suggestion as to how I can make it more fair. Wanted to see what everyone thought about this matchup. Happy Debating!

Illuminati for a solid majority.

Them Callouts:

Sorry in advance if you didn't want to be tagged.

@all-father: Interesting. Mind if I ask why you believe they take a majority?

It the Ultimates can take out Black Bolt quick enough, they win. That's a big if, though.

I don't think any of them have the durability to withstand blasts from Black bolt (Barring maybe Blue marvel), America doesn't really stack up to anyone on the Illuminati (Barring T'Challa). By the way, is Tonys armor as pictured? Model 42?

Ultimates

@all-father: Ah okay I see. As for your question yes Tony is as pictured.

Tony absorbs Spectrum and wrecks Cpt. Marvel like he should have in CWII. While the two T'Challa's duke it out, Black Bolt is taking pot-shots that eventually lead to a win.

Illuminati, just more powerful

Ultimates handily.

The Illuminati ftw

It could go either way, tbh.

Tony needed Scarlet Witch to pull that absorption off and even if he had her help, it's a trick that won't work twice.

I don't know that any single member of the Illuminati (present) that stands a chance against Spectrum these days and Chavez with her speed and portals is also a significant problem.

I think the Ultimates take it quite soundly.

Nice. Seems we're getting some good responses for both sides.

Ultimates

Ultimates win solely because of Spectrum, who takes everyone out by going light speed, if she is smart enough to do that from the get-go though, otherwise, Illuminati take the win with mid-difficulty, Black Bolt as the MVP.

Black Bolt is definitely the MVP but the Ultimates have more heavy hitters. I'd say they win a slight majority in the long run.

Protector of the omniverse wins here.

The ultimates for sure America Chavez can BFR anyone on the other team to another universe

Illuminati stomps.

Ultimates all the way

@fiendishmind: The only reason Tony supposedly needed help absorbing Monica is because he didn't know her frequency for absorption (which is absurd since he's absorbed her twice before) so he had to guess her energy signature and Scarlet Witch just made it a lucky guess. He can and has absorbed her.

Monica is currently more a handful than she ever has been before, her skill and control had already jumped considerably between her time as Captain Marvel with the Avengers and AXIS (this could easily explain why Tony needed SW to help with the frequency, in contrast with before) but it rocketed to a new high during Ewing's Ultimates run. At this point, given she's well aware of the absorption tactic and she's more skilled and powerful now, it seems highly unlikely it would work again but even if it does work, we've seen the armor won't hold her for long and she will violently shred her way out.

Agreed Fiendishmind. Spectrum solos this team. If not Miss America can. Spectrum regularly operates at light speed. Tony does not. If Tony has time then he can absorb her but I doubt she will give him time. And her partners will be running interference. The probability that Tony can attack her before she starts moving at light speed is extremely low. And as you said, Tony can hold her for awhile but not long enough. Plus she might do her new trick on him.

Plus Ms. America can BFR all of them at any time. She was able to BFR Spectrum at light speed so BFRing this team is no issue.

Either female can possibly solo. Together they STOMP

Nope. Miss America can solo also. BFR is allowed and she can BFR to other realities. She can even catch light speed beings. See post above this one. She was also tough enough to beat Thor's goat in a fight. I dont know how impressive that is....just a fun fact for Thor fans.

Iluminati for a decent majority

Spectum sees them as frozen. Defeats them before they can react. So fast that even when time is stopped she can still move.

Everything else is frozen compared to Spectrum except Miss America. That shows how fast Miss America is also.

Miss America is so fast that she can hit Loki before he can finish a word. Before he can fully materialize she hit him.

@fiendishmind: What makes you think that she's stronger or has more control in comparison to the past when Tony's casually absorbed her? It's a matter of having access to her energy frequency/signature. Achieving higher levels of control or even getting more powerful doesn't change that. It's still the same type of living light energy it's always been. With her being more in control and powerful, would that make her harder to contain for very long? Sure, but I think he held her for a significant amount of time in their most recent fight. In that time, he could absorb her and then think of a way to BFR. Honestly though, I didn't even read the OP's Illuminati line-up until now. I assumed it would include Dr. Strange who Tony could have told to open a portal and send Monica through. Other than maybe bringing her to the Baxter Building, there's really nothing Iron Man could do until Spectrum breaks back out. He has no way to put her down.

@p00ty: Iron Man can literally just set his armor to automatically absorb any energy that comes his way. He doesn't need to be light speed in order to contain Spectrum.

Then he can literally use her as a weapon to take down other teammates. Hell, maybe even send her through a portal that Ms. America has open. However, ultimately I really don't see Tony keeping her down.

@noone1996: Iron Man can set his armor to absorb energy. Keyword: CAN. She won't give him time to do that. In your scan she was new to the avengers, talking and giving him time to surrender. That wont happen here.

And as I showed in post 25, coming into contact with Spectrum may not be the best idea. She could possibly drain all his EM energy.

Still we agree that possibly absorbing her is only a temporary solution. That will suffice.

@p00ty: CAN as in, if she tries to blitz the same thing will happen as with Ms. America's portal. She's going to run into him and find herself trapped into his armor no matter how fast she goes. The OP says it's in character with morals on, so I'm not sure why you think everyone is going to get blitzed and one-shotted before they can think about it. Also, if she could drain him then she would have done it the three times they've fought. I mean even Ultron couldn't drain him.

@noone1996: I'm pretty sure now that Monica knows Ironman can absorb her she'll take him out quick.

Illuminati with Black Bolt as the MVP

While Black Bolt is perhaps the most powerful out of both teams, he most likely won't use his vocal powers, as this is in character AND with morals on, meaning that-

A. Bolt is unlikely to use these powers at all unless he is under a great enough threat, through he may be unwilling to harm other heroes.

B. This battle takes place in a city. Therefore, collateral damage becomes a major factor for both teams. The pure power of Bolt's voice would certainly cause a issue of civilians being caught in a crossfire of sorts.

Both of these factors mean that it is more than likely that Bolt will not use his vocal powers in this scenario. Ultimates win with mild trouble.

Ultimates. Spectrum is MVP.

@noone1996: In character and with morals on, SPectrum is light speed. At light speed she sees people as frozen. So a blitz is almost automatic unless for some dumb reason she chooses to go slow. She attacked Miss America at light speed and they're on the same team.

Spectrum does not have to run into him. She can shoot beams. She can create holograms to fight in her place. She has AOE attacks. To think she would make the same mistake that she made as a rookie is not likely.

In the past when she fought Iron Man she did not know how to drain EMP energy. So now that she knows how to there is no reason that she wouldn't.

Examples of her blitzing in character, seeing people as frozen with morals on, and attacking with holograms below. So she can blitz the entire team and let others deal with Iron Man. And all he can do is temporarily absorb her. Not defeat her.

This won't be needed but SPectrum and Blue Marvel can do this.

@p00ty: The goat showing is quite impressive actually, but BFR.....eh, even when it is an option I never really consider that as a win.

In character Black Bolt is at a heavy disadvantage. In New York they won't risk going all out. I think Spectrum and Blue Marvel carry their team. She can short out Tony and most of the illuminati before they can react.

BFR should be EXCLUDED from being a way to win. I hope they change that rule at some point

Bumper cars.

Im gunna go with Ultimates.

@p00ty: Just because she hits him at light speed, that doesn't guarantee that it'll KO him. I mean she has tanked hits from her before. I still don't think she's draining him. But yeah, we agree that he cannot put her down. I could reach and say he contains her until he brings her to the Baxter Building or something and use one of Reed's devices to more effectively trap her, but I'm not sure if he even has a device like that.

@noone1996: I still don't think she's draining him.

It's true that she has not drained or overloaded IM but I think that's because the writers won't allow her to. Not because she cant. I think these feats support my theory that she could overload or drain him if PIS is not allowed. I know you know alot about IM so if his armor is beyond what she can drain/overload then let me know. And agreeing to disagree is always an option.

The first scan is her absorbing nearly all the energy from Kyle Rayner(green lantern). This is a canon story that is referenced by both companies and is in her official bio. This energy doesn't even exist in Marvel universe but she still drained it.

THe second scan is against robots that had energy that exist from another dimension. These robots are powered by The Infinites. They are strong enough to injure THor and withstand his attacks. Yet she overloaded them.

Kang has futuristic armor. He admits that she is close to overloading his armor.

These feats lead me to believe that she MAY be able to drain or overload IM armor

@p00ty: Pretty sure the Green Lantern instance isn't canon. What comic did it happen in? I'm sure if you look on the Marvelwiki page it will say it wasn't Earth-616. I also don't think that raw power is what should be a determining factor of what can or cannot be overloaded/drained. If a character has countermeasures to draining then that's that. Power levels are irrelevant. That's like saying, "Mjolnir is extremely powerful and magical, but Magneto can affect it with his magnetism so that means he can affect Iron Man's armor too" even if there are instances where he demagnetizes his armor.

@noone1996:

@p00ty: What's the issue name? It's just JLA/Avengers? I'd like to read it. Yeah, I agree that you shouldn't use NLF's, but has she ever drained someone that has countermeasures to draining? They just may not have had the tech necessary to resist it. Power levels have nothing to do with that.

@noone1996: I almost think you're joking with me. I thought all veteran comic readers have read Avengers/JLA. But you've heard about it. For example:

The Speed force doesnt work in Marvel. Infinity gems dont work in DC. Superman can temporarily lift Mjolnir. Superman defeats Thor in combat. The Vision can use his energy blast to power up Superman.

All that happened in Avengers/JLA. Not a bad comic if you can find it for cheap.