The Galactic Empire and Starfleet vs The Dalek Empire

Really tempted to say, 'reality bomb. GG.'

im going with the empire

@lego_dude:

Why?

@huthimamwa: because according to wookiepedia the empire constructed more than 25,000 imperial star destroyers and that kind warship is very powerful

@lego_dude: how powerful? What can they do that Dalek ships can't do better?

@huthimamwa: i am not sure how many damage they will cause to a dalek ship in a ship ti ship battle you should see this and judge yourself

you should see this and judge yourself

Daleks.

@the_replicator: Why the bump?

@jwwprod: Honestly, I felt like my opinion had to be said. But then I forgot my argument, and so it became a bit of a pointless bump. Mind you, if more people start coming to it, then my actual thoughts run the chance of being heard.

The Daleks have this.

Daleks rape.

Don't count out a Starfleet Captain! Picard isn't the only big brain.

Captain Kirk doesn't get enough credit for his smarts sometimes. If I remember correctly, he had a penchant for confronting machines, (both man-made and cosmic in origin) with paradoxes. He has forced at least 4, maybe five different sentient robots to self-destruct by confronting them with their own logic. Maybe he could do the same to the Daleks...

@tdkelbowstrike: They aren't robots, though.

The classic Daleks have some ridiculous weaknesses (spray paint, stairs, and I remember one that was destroyed when it was hit with a truck). Of course, Daleks have evolved since then. In the revival series they can levitate or even fly.

INFANTRY WEAPONS: It's hard to judge the power of the Dalek death rays because that's just what they are; death rays. They kill organic life without causing (usually) much physical destruction. They had no trouble with Cyberman armor. Stormtrooper armor is bound to be better (those Cybermen were earth-built) but my guess is that it won't be much help. Dalek weapons appear to be very lethal. You don't see people wounded by Dalek death rays very often. More often it's one, shot one kill and a scream of agony. By contrast, blasters and phasers are often seen to do non-lethal damage. Also, Daleks seem to hit their targets with much greater regularity than stormtroopers or Starfleet fighters. At a guess I'd say that the one shot one kill standard we see with the Daleks. Dalek armor and shielding is highly effective and I think that neither standard blasters nor phasers on typical settings will hurt them.

The Empire has infantry and artillery weapons capable to tearing Daleks to pieces, but most stormtroopers don't carry them. It creates a logistical problem comparable to the US Army facing a foe that can't be affected by anything smaller than a heavy machine gun. You can adapt, but it's a slow process and bites into your resources. Te Federation has a different problem. I think phasers on high settings will be effective but it's going to drain their power packs pretty quickly. They will face a constant problem of running out of "ammunition."

MOBILITY: Surprisingly, with their recently developed ability to levitate or fly, the Daleks have a real advantage here. They appear to move nearly as fast as Jango Fett with his rocket pack and are much more maneuverable.

VERSATILITY: The Federation has versatile weapons but we haven't seen a lot of different kinds of troops or battle machines. The Daleks have zero versatility. The Empire has a wide variety of battle droids, vehicles, and special troops. This gives them superior ability to adapt to different tactical situations.

TACTICS: Daleks are predictable. Their tactics are pretty much, EXTERMINATE! EXTERMINATE!EXTERMINATE!That's a big contrast to both Starfleet and the Empire, which have highly competent, sometimes brilliant field officers.

LOGISTICS: Here's the big difference. The Federation has the resources of something less than a quadrant of the galaxy to draw on, the Empire has the resources of a galaxy, but the Dalek Empire encompasses many galaxies. That means they have the resources to keep building more Daleks, more ships, more weapons, and to keep on coming, long after the Federation and Empire have exhausted theirs. To have a chance, the alliance will have to find a way to cripple the Dalek supply lines.

NAVAL POWER: This one is really hard to judge. We know a lot about what the warships of the Empire and the Federation can do, but the combat capabilities of a Dalek ship are a mystery. However, unless the alliance ships are vastly superior, it won't make a difference. The sheer number of ships the Daleks can field will be overwhelming.

SPECIAL FACTORS: The Empire has the power to create planet-smashing weapons, like the Death Star (I don't remember specifics but I'm pretty sure the Daleks can match or exceed this. Stealing planets and removing them to a pocket universe is pretty impressive.) The Empire has Lord Vader, and I think the Force would be very effective. Daleks don't seen to have any special resistance to things like Jedi mind tricks and I think a lightsaber could chop them up pretty nicely. I don't think that's decisive. Even Vader couldn't personally kill hundreds of millions of Daleks. The Daleks have time travel technology, which has the potential to win the war all by itself. The only real counter to this is that the Federation also has time travel.

I see this as a long, difficult war with untold billions of casualties. The alliance will win many of the battles (when the odds are not overwhelming) and Vader and the Death Star will be decisive in many conflicts. However, the Daleks will keep coming and slowly overwhelming the alliance. There will also be a number of Dalek missions to the past where they target key worlds, and Federation teams will go back to stop them.

It's a little like Rome vs Carthage. Carthage had the best general, Hannibal, brilliant tactics, and a large, first-rate army. They crushed one Roman army after another. But Rome had the manpower and the resources. They kept sending new armies until they won. Barring some brillians masterstroke, I think th eDaleks eventually win this one.

The Daleks actually have a surprising amount of versatility. They can within hours adapt to having no access to technology more advanced than modern 1700s/1800s. In addition, they have several units, including Spider-Units, heavy Weapons Daleks, Temporal Daleks, etc. that serve different purposes.

Not really, no. The Daleks are master strategists who masterminded century long wars against species without ever even allowing the other species to come into contact with them. Heck, they engineered a galactic war to troll the Doctor and their creator Davros. They are quite competent and are no slouches in the military department.

Dalek ships are casual planet busters, the standard tactic in their war with the Thals was to blow up a planet if they were losing the ground war. In addition, depending on the era they have time capable vessels in much higher numbers than the Federation does.

Vader isn't going to kill hundreds of millions of daleks, ever. He can't block all their shots at once, and shots that can level buildings are not going to be easily blocked by him, especially multiple at once. Plus nanites that can be used to convert the entire opposition en masse into Dalek servants is pretty useful.

No, the alliance has a very low chance of winning any of these fights. A single Dalek command ship can do everything the Death Star can do, and has multi-galactic FTL, in addition to time travel. Daleks are also used to planning wars years in advance, and almost never make an open move until they know they can win. A typical Dalek plan would involve creating a virus that dissolves human dna, then seeding it on hundreds of thousands of asteroids around a galaxy and allowing them to burn up on reentry and spread the plague to different planets. Heck, they might just sit in the Time Vortex and pick off the opposition one at a time. Daleks don't go into fights they might lose unless they have to. However, unless the Federation and Empire can casually planet bust, Dalek ships are going to be generally safe.

The Federation won't be able to go back to stop them unless they end up in Dalek temporal wakes (like in First Contact) or if this is the 31st century Federation with their temporal shields allowing them to detect changes in the time line. And then it becomes simply the Daleks vs, Future Fed in a miniature Time War that probably edges out in the Daleks favor. Future Fed temporal protection tech wasn't that good.

Daleks stomp.

@the_imperator:

I agree with your break down for the most part (Although I think what matthew was referring to with Tactics was on an individual scale and not on a tactical siege or a whole army defense scale). Star Fleet/Empire would need big backupif they were at war with the darleks though

Daleks are the only faction that have ever decided to create a weapon to destroy the entire multiverse, and they stole 27 planets to power it, by dragging them into a pocket of time out of sync with the rest of the universe. That is 27 planets, in several different galaxies, instantly transported light years away from their initial position, into an entire nebula that is impossible to access without time travel, which are just the power source for a bomb of literally unlimited destruction. Death Star got nothing on this

If you think about, while the average soldier of star fleet or the GE is pretty terrible compared to daleks, the best fighters of the GE are godly compared to daleks. For example, Darth Sidious could literally kill ten daleks one his own at the same time instantly, while blind-folded and his hands tied behind his back. By just using the force to sense them and kill the kaled mutant inside, combine that with star fleet transporter technology and you have a large group of sith and inquistors on any dalek saucer, probably the one with the dalek leader (or at least a high ranking commander) on it. The strike team could easily kill the entire crew on the ship and either assume control of the ship or teleport back. As previously stated, both star fleet and the daleks have time traveling capabilities, so there would be another time war, yet again GE force users would be critical in the battles. But as daleks apparently have an entire universe of an empire i doubt the alliance could win, but they would win the early battles of the war, then eventually too many force users would die.

It depends on the era. I’d probably back The Parting of The Ways Daleks. If this is Time War it ends in a horrifying stomp and should be locked. Season 4 Daleks would also stomp, even without the Reality Bomb. I thought it was generally agreed upon that Doctor Who’s strongest sit comfortably above Star Wars and Star Trek.

probably star wars empire

Why tf was upped. The Empire doesn't even belong here. Hell, the Empire would never even make it through the weapons envelope of a Trek ship, and frankly, wouldnot even register on the Daleks radar.

Trek has some things that would make an actual battle between the two amusing but are really no threat to the Daleks. Realistically, the only thing that could possibly allow trek to survive is 31 Century interference, and we know jack all about them, much less enough to assume they have any sort of parity with whovian time manip.

Which is possible...but not likely.

Although Trek does have the ability to reality bust by crashing the mycelial network, tbf.

@rogueshadow lockthread?

From what I've heard of the Daleks they godstomp.