The Galactic Empire and Starfleet vs The Dalek Empire

Probably going to have to back Daleks here even though I hate Dr. Who.

Daleks can wage war on a universal and transtemporal scale. This is a stomp.
 
On a side note, I wish Methos was here to see this. : )

" @Baldy:  how can you hate Doctor Who? lol :P "

" @Baldy:  how can you hate Doctor Who? lol :P "

STAR WARS ALL DAY!!!

I seem to always be rooting for the underdog. I do find Dr. Who highly annoying, and I'm a big Star Wars fan, but I don't give The Daleks a bad vote because the show sucks. I say the show sucks because Dr. Who's enemies are laughable at best. What are the Dalek's going to do when Vader pushes them on their side? I've seen an old man take out a Dalek with a can of spray paint! Whovians... Guys... You can't be serious. The Daleks regularly surrender with out putting up a fight against a (decidedly clever) nerd with a bow tie! They threaten, but never act. Some incarnations can easily be avoided by running up a flight of stairs. They're a bunch of idiotic tanks with energy shielding. Whoopydi do. Picard distracts them with a song and dance while the 501st sabotages their whole operation. lol.

@Fire_Ant said:

I seem to always be rooting for the underdog. I do find Dr. Who highly annoying, and I'm a big Star Wars fan, but I don't give The Daleks a bad vote because the show sucks. I say the show sucks because Dr. Who's enemies are laughable at best. What are the Dalek's going to do when Vader pushes them on their side? I've seen an old man take out a Dalek with a can of spray paint! Whovians... Guys... You can't be serious. The Daleks regularly surrender with out putting up a fight against a (decidedly clever) nerd with a bow tie! They threaten, but never act. Some incarnations can easily be avoided by running up a flight of stairs. They're a bunch of idiotic tanks with energy shielding. Whoopydi do. Picard distracts them with a song and dance while the 501st sabotages their whole operation. lol.

That whole statement just contradicts itself.

If they are idiotic i dont understand how they could created advanced energy shielding technology for each dalek.

Whether or not enemies are stupid that does not change the fact that they are deadly

Probably not an appropriate analogy to use, but Americans made the A-bomb and used it on Japan. Yet, their academics have always been superior. They have technological prowess, but they're slow, their dialogue is horrendous, and they've been outwitted in every appearance I've ever seen them in. Spray paint for the win. Or maybe a well placed tomato. Place all of the Emperor's Hands and Vader on a Dalek ship and they'll use the force to pop those little mutants in their shells. Luke repelled an AT-AT's head cannon and launched it back at it with his lightsaber, and probably a little help from the force. What can the Daleks do against that?

@Fire_Ant said:

Probably not an appropriate analogy to use, but Americans made the A-bomb and used it on Japan. Yet, their academics have always been superior. They have technological prowess, but they're slow, their dialogue is horrendous, and they've been outwitted in every appearance I've ever seen them in. Spray paint for the win. Or maybe a well placed tomato. Place all of the Emperor's Hands and Vader on a Dalek ship and they'll use the force to pop those little mutants in their shells. Luke repelled an AT-AT's head cannon and launched it back at it with his lightsaber, and probably a little help from the force. What can the Daleks do against that?

They can blow up their own ship, taking the people on it with them. And then proceed blow up any ships that come against them, with planetary destroying level weapons.

However, this Battle has a problem - which version of the Daleks and Federation is being used? Because if we assume Daleks from their first appearance, then they don't even know aliens exist and live in one city. As opposed to 31st Century Federation, which has time travel and other possible Galactic+ FTL.

It's like throwing puppies into a wood chipper if you're using Time War Era Daleks.

What planet's have the Dalek's destroyed? Cause Alderaan's an asteroid field, and Earth is safe and sound in Who-ville. Even if they have time travel, I've never seen them use it effectively. If we're talking the Dalek's from the Peter Cushing movie, A squad of 12 stormtroopers could clear that city. If we're talking the ones the last three doctors have faced, They might put up a fight, but being able to time travel, so you can attack your enemy in the past, is pointless if said enemy can see into the future like Sith can. In a ground war, the Daleks don't stand a chance, knowing that they might choose to clear the board. Fair enough. In space? I don't know what their ships are capable of... because I've never seen them do anything other than (attempt to) look imposing in them.

"Whether or not enemies are stupid that does not change the fact that they are deadly"

It most certainly does. What I want to know is how they built all of this fabulous tech with their goofy plunger fists. But I digress. I'm no Trekky, but I know that when you're going up against Picard, intelligence really really does matter. He can get them to do WHATEVER he wants. Just easily as the doctor does. Really. He could talk them into flying into the sun, or if all else fails program their phasers to a frequency that ignores the Daleks shielding, or shuts them down entirely. They're buffoons, and intentionally written as such. Have you heard their dialogue? Hell, R2-D2 could disguise himself as one and hack their ship. It'd be quite comical and not even then as ridiculous as some of the methods the doctor's used in the many many times he's defeated them. A "stomp" you say? How can you stomp when you're incapable of tying the shoes on your nonexistent feet?

@Fire_Ant: Just to ask, have you actually any Dalek episodes since the revival? Because for all their cheesy dialogue and PMSing personalities, their plots generally involve taking over or blowing up the universe, and they generally act more or less unstoppable to anything anyone throws at them until the Doctor steps in.

The average dalek saucer has supernova level firepower and durability and intergalactic ftl. Dalek capital ships go way beyond that. Compare the dalek's zettatons to star war's measely terratons and starfleet's pissant megatons. That's right, the death star would not scorch the paint of a basic saucer. This is like hind choppers against roman legionnares and cavemen.

@Fire_Ant: Weakened, non-Time War Daleks blew up a planet in the nuWho episode Asylum of the Daleks, though in one of the audios they blow up a galaxy. Or they go around blowing planets' atmospheres off like in the Dalek Empire audios. Or they create a disease that can only be cured with an chemical that the Daleks manufacture, and then release it using teleportation into all the ships. Or they sit in the Time Vortex and blow up the ships one at a time. The list of ways to win goes on and on.

And no, Picard isn't going to just talk them into a Supernova or something because first off that wouldn't be powerful enough to destroy their ships, and second the Doctor is stated to have an in-universe PIS field, which is why they get stupid around him.

Add tot that Time Loops, and all their fancy time tech, and the Q are probably the only thing that could hope to stand up to them.

Given that the daleks have universe to multiverse busting tech, they could damn well kill the Q with the element of surpdise.

"And no, Picard isn't going to just talk them into a Supernova or something because first off that wouldn't be powerful enough to destroy their ships, and second the Doctor is stated to have an in-universe PIS field, which is why they get stupid around him." Okay. That's honest at least. Although, I will say anybody with the force would be a little tough to kill with most diseases. Also, I didn't know their ship's were that strong, but I'm still curious how they built them. I mean not just because they don't have graspers of any sort, but how did they melt metal that can withstand a sun? They welded with a weapon more powerful than the Death Star? Pretty silly if you ask me. Blowing off atmospheres, sure that's scary, and they could then likely take a Star Destroyer or 10 with out trouble. As Vader said though, the ability to destroy a planet is nothing compared to the power of the force. I'm positive they would be vulnerable to mind tricks, and a force user can easily crush their squishy insides with TK.

@Fire_Ant said:

"And no, Picard isn't going to just talk them into a Supernova or something because first off that wouldn't be powerful enough to destroy their ships, and second the Doctor is stated to have an in-universe PIS field, which is why they get stupid around him." Okay. That's honest at least. Although, I will say anybody with the force would be a little tough to kill with most diseases. Also, I didn't know their ship's were that strong, but I'm still curious how they built them. I mean not just because they don't have graspers of any sort, but how did they melt metal that can withstand a sun? They welded with a weapon more powerful than the Death Star? Pretty silly if you ask me. Blowing off atmospheres, sure that's scary, and they could then likely take a Star Destroyer or 10 with out trouble. As Vader said though, the ability to destroy a planet is nothing compared to the power of the force. I'm positive they would be vulnerable to mind tricks, and a force user can easily crush their squishy insides with TK.

They force people to build them, and force them to manually mine for metals and resources. They don't care about efficiency, they just enjoy being sadistic.

While mind tricks may work, they still would have to be up close to them, and Daleks prefer to not have ground battles unless absolutely necessary.

Going with Daleks.

Yeah, fleet vs fleet, I hate to say, but it's leaning towards the Daleks. I still feel like Picard and Vader could put their resources together to formulate a plan, board their ship, and go after the leaders.

@Fire_Ant said:

Yeah, fleet vs fleet, I hate to say, but it's leaning towards the Daleks. I still feel like Picard and Vader could put their resources together to formulate a plan, board their ship, and go after the leaders.

Depending on the era, it is either an Emperor on Skaro itself, or a council. And while 1v1 Force User vs Dalek odds are good, numbers plus extreme casual disregard for casualties means it'll be hard to ever actually board a ship.

Shouldn't it be pretty easy for them to use the Enterprise to teleport onto the mothership? Figuring out which one that is could be a matter of using the force, or by it being much larger than the rest, I'm not really sure. Would they attack their own command ship if enemies were aboard? Does that depend on who's leading the Daleks?

Star Wars

@Fire_Ant said:

Shouldn't it be pretty easy for them to use the Enterprise to teleport onto the mothership? Figuring out which one that is could be a matter of using the force, or by it being much larger than the rest, I'm not really sure. Would they attack their own command ship if enemies were aboard? Does that depend on who's leading the Daleks?

It depends on who's leading the Daleks. Added to the fact that the Emperor's mind can be backed up onto other Daleks, when needed. Daleks don't hesitate to kill each other if they know it will serve them in the long run. Plus, depending on the era of Daleks, they don't even have to be in real space to fight their enemies. THat is the problem with Dalek debates, no one thinks about the era.

@SavageDragon said:

Star Wars

Why?

@The_Imperator:

I dont watch Doctor who, so I vote star Wars lol

Daleks will get EXTERMINATED

Probably the Daleks based on feats, but don't overrate them. If the Galactic Empire and Starfleet can adapt, they have a shot. Only Time War Daleks would definitely win without much trouble. Keep in mind they're mostly deadly only because of their temporal tech. Don't bring up stuff like the reality bomb, it isn't known if it could really do what the Daleks said it could, and I highly doubt it could.

@midway: welcome to the vine, flagged for vulgarity

@midway: Hello. Welcome to CV. Please don't post how you have been so far. No swearing and the whole petty insults and personal insults isn't something we care for here, so tone that down for the future thanks.

Is there any kind of time travel in either universe? If not the Daleks win handily.

The Daleks take this pretty, easily. In the Big Finish audio adventures (which were all officially made canon when The Night Of The Doctor aired in November) they were busting Galaxies, freezing entire planets in time, using weapons that can rapidly speed up time in a certain area (basically causing someone to age to the point of death and decay in a matter of a couple seconds) theh can pluck planets out of time and space and put them somewhere else (like inside a sun for instance). Their tech is absolutely insane. They can even reanimate the dead and turn them into their slaves pretty easily. Don't ask how, but every one of these "Dalek zombie slaves" grows a Dalek hand-gun out of the palms of their hands. The tech of the empire and the federation are childsplay by comparison to the Dalek empire at their best.

Spite in the Daleks favor.

i have not watched much of doctor who just most of the 2011 and on ward seasons and i have heard the hype for the daleks but i have never seen them do anything impressive just see the doctor slapping them around can anyone show me something that can convince me these guys are as bad as the borg because right now i am not convinced.

Daleks.

@jwwprod: how.

@comic_book_fan: Daleks have the resources of an entire universe (as opposed to a single galaxy) and they were giving the Time Lords hell (And they are kind of like the Watchers of the Dr Who verse) and they once made a bomb which basically destroy the multiverse.

@comic_book_fan: unfortunately most of their best feats are only in the audios. So we can't "show" you them. I listed off some of their more dangerous tech in my earlier post.

And honestly, its not surprising that you're not very impressed by the Daleks. If you've only watched a couple seasons (which only had about 2 or 3 Dalek episodes) of a show that has 50+ years of canon in the show/audios/book. But in the past few years that you claim to have seen, they have casually planet-busted, shown the ability to assimilate living things (and dead bodies) into their slaves/soldiers, shown the ability to multiply and create more of themselves from the Dalek Progenitor enough to turn a small crew of Daleks into an enormous empire. And that's only feats from a couple episodes.

Their Time War era feats are insane. If they came across the Death Star of the Borg Cube they could easily freeze it in time or teleport it into a nearby star.

@huthimamwa: yeah but like i said the borg can do the same they could destroy a planet and increase there ranks at a huge rate granted they are the worse the federation have ever faced but that was them alone here they have vader and company backing them granted you sit vader and picard at a table together and count the seconds before they try to kill each other but still from those seasons they are like borg in a lot of ways.

@huthimamwa: i just read your earlier comment about the audio books so and will concede.

I saw you conceded, but I was already writing this :P

Daleks have hacked and defeated the Cybermen pretty easily. The Cybermen have shut down the IDW Borg fairly trivially. The IDW comics Borg have not been shown to be any different than normal Borg, so Cybermen should be able to easily defeat the Borg, which in turn means the Daleks shuld be able to.

The Daleks have planet busting on all their big ships (Remembrance of the Daleks and Dalek Asylum episodes), and their speeders (as seen in Dalek Invasion of Earth, the episode not the movie) can blow the atmospheres of planets by self-destructing (Audio: Dalek Empire IV).

Daleks themselves are extremely patient, willing to create diseases to take out species and simply wait a hundred years for it to happen and then swoop in and clean up the pieces. They already have human killing diseases, and can release those into Federation forces and Imperial forces willy nilly. FTL for the Daleks, apart form the Time Vortex, is somewhere above traversing the Milky Way in a couple years to traveling 250million Lyrs in 3 seconds. Average is around being able to move in minutes to hours from the Milky Way to the Andromeda galaxy. With that said, their power output is ridiculous (they use compressed stars according to the novelization of Remembrance of the Daleks), and they have plenty of nanotechnology and hacking skills needed to shut down enemy ships.

If all else fails, they can also sit in the Time Vortex and simply shoot all the enemy forces into dust while being untouchable.

@atphantom: yea but modern daleks are very easy to stop. Also in the classic series every plot was about destroying the universe or at least close to that. Plus in remembrance of the daleks they almost conquered the while universe and only lost cause the doctor planed ahead. The old versions are more threatening.

@comic_book_fan:

Time War Daleks are insane (in more than one way). Comparing even weakened Daleks to the Borg is like comparing cavemen to jedi. A very small fleet made of impure less powerful Daleks almost destroyed the Earth in the end of the first season of the new series. The only thing that saved the Doctor was a being with unlimited power possessing Rose. The only weapons that seem to have any effect on Dalek warships are made by the Daleks themselves. As stated above the Time War fleet has shown galaxy busting power and incredible technological prowess. in the audio books. Han Solo once stated the entire Imperial fleet didn't have enough firepower to destroy a planet. The current, not as powerful as the Time War fleet, Dalek fleet has done this in nearly two minutes. In fact, the Daleks have shown the potential to destroy planets with a single bomb. I could keep going, but I believe I have proved my point. Unless the Empire or Federation could acquire some Dalek weaponry (which Daleks and their ships are easily destroyed by) this is a stomp.

No, they were a lot better characters than that in the old series; they weren't the pathetic Big Bad => Totally Gone (but not actually) => Big Bad like they are now. Short summaries of episodes to follow:

Dalek: They learn of alien life and decide to kill it all, but are stuck on their own homeworld

Dalek Invasion of Earth: Daleks have mostly conquered the Milky Way and Earth, though thanks to the Doctor humans are able to fight them off

The Chase: several Daleks chase the Doctor down and almost kill him, cool things call Mechanoids save him

Power of the Daleks: A Time traveled vessel filled with Daleks is reactivated and spreads

Evil of the Daleks: The Daleks appear to be defeated in a civil war on their homeworld, though the Empire survives but is fractured

Frontier in Space/Planet of the Daleks: The Daleks use the Master to create a war between multiple races in the Milky Way, while designing a super plague to kill any living thing. Maybe a universe level threat here, but probably not

Day of the Daleks: Future Daleks are going back and changing their own past. Not really universe level yet.

Death to the Daleks: They are working on stopping the humans from getting a cure for a space plague they designed.

Genesis of the Daleks: Daleks past is changed by the Doc

Destiny of the Daleks/Revelation of the Daleks/Resurrection of the Daleks: Nothing really universe level here, it just seems that the Doctor's meddling with their past made them much more mechanical and less imaginative. Also they are in a galaxy sized war and stalemate. Or are they... (see book War of the Daleks)

Remembrance of the Daleks: universe level threat here.

Even if they can, the Daleks could still always suicide to get rid of the stuff, they aren't adverse to suicide runs to hurt their enemy.

@just_because_im_obsessive:

Empire and star fleet are only galaxy sized civilizations

The dalkes are universal

Dalkes stomp

@the_imperator: no I'm on your side. I just meant that they felt like they could once offing the doctor or making a base out of earth (wow as much as I love dalek invasion of earth it is humorously bad with whole science of hollowing out the earth part) that they can be a threat to the universe. Like they can that easily do this much damage that once they settle their score with humanity they can just obliterate us all. And if they do the plauge thing over and over then they will have essentially won every battle. Oh and don't ya just love that a single dalek ship or just one hovering or a landing party can be cooler that a million ships and a mechanical planet thing. Man remembrance of the daleks is cooler than most of the new science fiction series doctor (cut). Love that Easter egg.