The Endless Vs Lucifer Morningstar

@yungbaby: His brother couldn't do anything to destiny same with lucifer and elanie.

@gokuisthebest: wasn't destiny explained to be some sort of constant?

@yungbaby: ?

@gokuisthebest: Constant? Like an entity that usually can't be removed from something? Or was that just never stated? Been a few years since I read those comics.

@yungbaby: Yes, you cant remove any of the endless from anything but you can remove/kill the aspects we see such as Morpheus and the rest of the endless we see. Lucifer Michael and Elanie couldn't do anything to destiny.

@yungbaby: why is he and his brothers above the endless.

@deagonx

Dream said Lucifer was far more powerful than him.

@deagonx: Ok?

@deagonx: morpheus not dream.

Morpheus is Dream.

@deagonx: He is not tho.

@deagonx: He is just a aspect as stated by the comics many times.

Morpheus is one of the names Dream is called throughout the Sandman series.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dream_(character)

He has taken many names, including Morpheus and Oneiros

@xearesay

@deagonx: wikipedia isn't reliable since it can be edited by anyone.

@deagonx:

1st, the idea that "wikipedia is unreliable" is a laughable retort to something as base as "Morpheus is one of the names for Dream of the Endless," a piece of information you literally cannot miss if you have even passing familiarity with the comic.

2nd, that scan does not say "Morpheus is an aspect, not actually Dream" it never mentions the name Morpheus, all it says is "we perceive but aspects of the Endless." It's alluding to his current appearance, but there's absolutely no reason to assume that when Dream tells Matthew "Lucifer is far more powerful than me" that he doesn't actually mean himself, Dream, rather he means "Morpheus" which is some weaker aspect of himself. You're performing all sorts of mental gymnastics to avoid accepting what was told to us in clear terms by Dream himself: Lucifer is more powerful.

and let's of course remind ourselves of the phrasing: Lucifer is perhaps the most powerful being there is, save for his creator (the Presence).

This is from the horse's mouth, a being who is intimately familiar with the Endless, that Lucifer is possibly the most powerful being there is, and "By far more powerful" than him.

@deagonx: That's fine you couldn't give a argument about the wikipedia being reliable.

@deagonx: Are you clapped? You can edit wiki all you want so.........

Cough cough read the scan again and this was proven by Daniel. Also, you know that Morpheus follows rules that make him weaker than usual and he was fine to fight lucifer in hell where Lucifer has the edge.

It's like having a conversation with actual teenagers. First, you never provided any counter-evidence or any actual reason why this information should be considered unreliable. Morpheus being a name for Dream is basic, Gaiman has even referred to him as Morpheus in interviews.

Second, I read the scan and responded to it, and debunked the idea that it shows Morpheus is some weaker aspect of Dream, do you have any counter-argument or are you simply saying "read the scan again" to avoid facing the fact that you're wrong?

Third, how has it been proven by Daniel? Do you ever intend to provide actual evidence for your claim or do you intend to just regurgitate the same weaksauce arguments that were already debunked?

Finally, Dream was never "fine to fight Lucifer in Hell." Do you have any evidence of this? I recall Dream saying explicitly that he was at an extreme disadvantage in entering Hell to face Lucifer, the only "fight" he participated in was word game with a demon.

Oh, and in case you forgot, let's see what Dream himself has to say about Lucifer's place in the power structure of DC:

@deagonx: dude... I said WIKIPEDIA CAN BE EDITED BY ANYONE SO THAT MAKES IT UNRELIABLE and you responded with "that's laughable". Are You okay?. The scans says we see the aspects of dream not dream itself which includes MORPHEUS if you have read the sandman you would know.

Bruh you ok reading? Did you get a heart attack or something because I counted the shitty argument.

Or Maybe you are fucking blind lol. It says We (the readers) understand only aspects like Morpheus, fucking understanding better.

Morpheus died, daniel become dream meaning Morpheus isn't dream cuz if he died the dream would have died as well basic logic you don't understand I guess.

Him saying multiple times in hell come lucifer lets fight and the only reason he was scared of fighting lucifer was because it was lucifers home where he had the advantage.

Ok? Again Morpheus like the rest of the endless follow rules except death.

Read comments more carefully, the laughable part was trying to challenge wikipedia's credibility in order to deny something as basic as "Morpheus is one of the names for Dream in Sandman."

Likewise, your reasoning is circular. You presented the scan as evidence that Morpheus is an aspect of Dream. Yet, the scan doesn't mention the name Morpheus nor does it say anything like what you're suggesting. Now you've backpedaled, and you're saying "it includes Morpheus, if you have read the sandman you would know."

Yet, I have read the Sandman. So where is your evidence? I can just as easily retort "If you read Sandman you would know Morpheus is Dream." He introduces himself as Dream several times, in fact, as well as Morpheus. That same character says Lucifer is the most powerful being in existence except for the Presence, despite knowing his own power, the power of Death and Destiny, etc.

@deagonx: You should read comments more carefully...The scan says We perceive aspects of the endless Not the concept. We perceive dream of the endless as morpheus (it isnt really hard to understand).

We (the readers) understand only aspects like Morpheus, fucking understanding better.

Lmao, why do you feel the need to lie to make your argument? Show me where the scan says we only "understand" aspects, and show me where it says Morpheus? Oh wait, you can't, because neither the word "understand" nor "Morpheus" appears in the scan. You're getting desperate.

Morpheus died, daniel become dream meaning Morpheus isn't dream

That's not what it means at all, Morpheus was Dream of the Endless, but Daniel took on that mantle/role after the original Dream died. This is basic.

Him saying multiple times in hell come lucifer lets fight and the only reason he was scared of fighting lucifer was because it was lucifers home where he had the advantage.

Weird how you never have scans.

The scan says We perceive aspects of the endless Not the concept. We perceive dream of the endless as morpheus (it isnt really hard to understand).

It never says "not the concept" and it never says "Morpheus." It says "In this aspect (we perceive aspects of the Endless...) he is rake-thin.

What's being referred to as an aspect is clearly his appearance, not his being, nor the name "Morpheus." You're willfully editorializing the scans because you lack actual evidence. It's embarrassing.

@deagonx: The only embarrassing thing is your existence. You skull is so fucking thick that you dont understand shit. WE PERCEIVE THE ENDLESS ASPECTS NOT CONCEPTS ITSELF (I AM EXPLAINING the scan to a dumbass like yourself).

@deagonx: Fuck your eyes. It says "In this aspect" Shows a picture of Morpheus. Then says we can only perceive/understand. So fuck your eyes.

Show me a scan where it says it is a role?

Sure I will send them later.

It says DREAM OF THE ENDLESS. How sad are you.

Morpheus is an aspect of dream. Fuck you and editing you cunt.

Deagonx is sure on this part.

The aspects in Sandman overtrue are different identity or different versions of dream of the endless and they have been called aspects like Morpheus, but aspects in this context dosent mean aspects like the Presence or the spectre but one is different identity and one is another.

There are different aspects/versions of dream, but they are one and the same, just viewed from a different viewpoint.

You're throwing a temper tantrum because you have no evidence? Embarrassing.

Newsflash: Your interpretation of the scan is not absolute, if the scan doesn't actually say it, your explanation is just your opinion and is utterly worthless. The scan refers to aspects, sure, but never identifies them as Morpheus, never distinguishes them from the "concepts themselves" and only describes the aspects in terms of physical appearance. In other words, you have no evidence for your claim.

And since there's no evidence that Morpheus =/= Dream, we can refer back to the actual evidence from the comic that I so graciously provided you several comments ago. Here's a reminder:

"In this aspect" Shows a picture of Morpheus.

According to whom is that "Morpheus" and not Dream? Morpheus is one of many names Dream is called throughout the series. You have no evidence to connect that scan to the name Morpheus whatsoever. The scan literally says that Dream acquires many names, it never says the names correspond to lesser aspects.

Show me a scan where it says it is a role?

Why would I need to? This is a direct observation of the events: Dream literally entrusts Daniel with his Dreamstone before he goes to find the Kindly Ones, knowing it will result in his death.

Morpheus is an aspect of dream

So you keep saying, over and over again with no evidence. Just take the L and sit down, you're embarrassing yourself.

@fax: ?

@gokuisthebest: ignore me

@gokuisthebest: What is your point?

Read the scan to understand his point. You have two aspects of Dream in that scan, one identifies as the Dream of Cats, and Dream in that scan explains that even when there are seemingly two aspects, there's only one Dream, it's just a matter of perspective.

What this means is: The notion that aspects aren't the "real Dream" or should be seen as having only a fraction of the "real Dream's" power is directly rejected by Dream himself.

@deagonx: Hmm fuck your eyes. Sorry, I didn't mean to be rude to a fucking dumbass.

The scan says it, if you can't see it then I am sorry.

Who is gay enough to say newsflash. Everyone opinion is the same, such as yours and my baka. In order words, you are fucking blind sorry.

There is evidence but you are blind. Again he follows rules that make him weaker, use your fucking thick skull for once.

@deagonx: Blind hoe.

@deagonx: also one thing regarding you scan, dream directly says lucifer is the second strongest being there is meaning it would include this hypothetical "true dream" and If this true dream is true then this statement is 100% indicating lucifer is far stronger than the "true dream"

To recap: You have no evidence, no argument, and all you can do now is fling vulgarities in every direction during your meltdown. Don't tag me in threads if you don't want to get debunked.

@deagonx: Fuck you and your debunks. Recycling the same scan over and over hoping for agurment. That is sad.

@fax: True dream isn't a being lmfao.

Precisely, even if I were to grant them this extraordinarily wide latitude in their assumption that the speaker in that scan isn't Dream but "Morpheus" some lesser aspect of Dream, then "Morpheus" would still absolutely be aware of "Dream's" full power, as well as Death and Destiny's, which means the statement still applies either way.

@deagonx:

You said Morpheus is an aspect of Dream, even if this assumption is granted to you without any evidence, Morpheus would know Dream's power, yet he still considers Lucifer the most powerful being next to the Presence. You're wrong in either case.

@deagonx: It's like having a conversation with actual teenagers.

You're pretty much just arguing with WCP and CSaP goons who believe everything in their little echo-chambers. I'm pretty sure that these two are alts of the same person and are only here to inflate artificial arguments anyways. This is the guy that believes in the Batman radion bullet scan.

Let the butthurt flow through you.

@deagonx: Why would Morpheus know the concept of dream power, tbh I am starting to think you don't have a fucking brain. So ggs kid, fucking retard.

@dogfighter90: I don't agree with WCP and no I am not a member of CSAP but they are much better than here or vsbw.Wat scans you one about, mate. And please if you have a problem come to DISCORD.

@deathknight203: @gokuisthebest: Are you brothers or something?