The Endless Vs Lucifer Morningstar

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Deathknight203

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The Title Says It All.

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deactivated-60f4d10418f1d

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Lucifer takes it 7/10 at least. He is implied to be far above any of them.

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Deathknight203

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Gokuisthebest

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I am gonna tag someone who actually read the sandman and understands it.

@levtarkovski

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Deathknight203

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Gokuisthebest

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@deathknight203: Threatened Destiny in his own realm while argueably not at full power, and Destiny admitted Lucifer could destroy him. Held his book which contains all of creation without strain. Threatened Death and she implied he could destroy her. Dream is scared of Lucifer. Drelium went to Lucifer to save Dream and not any of the Endless, the rest of them are even more far behind.

Well, I admit this not evidence he could take them all together, but he most likely could, since he is implied to far beyond any of them. Also, his power is that of their creator and can control the concepts they represent on an unlimited scale, I think.

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Gokuisthebest

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@happylife1996: Destiny didn't even give a shit when he was threatened and even lucifers brother Michael couldn't do anything about it. He said prolly not 100%. Destiny also said that his book and he are the same so idk why are you saying this. Death also didn't give a shit, and she was about to claim lucifer which lucifer agreed to so.... and no he can not destroy death (it is his ego). Scared does not mean power as Lucifer intelligence is far more dangerous than his power and Morpheus follows rules which makes limited as we have seen. Ok? because most of them have jobs to do while lucifer doesnt?

He probably cant even beat the strongest one in a 1v1 and he defo loses to death. And no he isnt implied to be beyond any of them, they just follow rules which makes Lucifer and the rest of creation look stronger and you can easily defeat an endless (except death) using the rules they follow but then again they chose to follow the rules. How can he control desire or an endless? If Lucifer wants anything, that is desires domain to control thus meaning he cant control them.

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Beckoned

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#10  Edited By Beckoned

Even Dream, fully prepared with his battle-helmet, sand, and gem, knew that he wouldn't be able to survive a battle with Lucifer. He even referred to Lucifer the second most powerful being in all of creation.

We also learn in the Lucifer series that Death has no claim on his soul even when he accidentally destroyed himself with his own power.

And at the end of the book he leaves God's Plan (which is associated with Destiny's Book).

Only the Presence can stand up to Lucifer in terms of power. Which makes sense, since he literally has the Presence ability command substance and shape. The only thing he can't do is create things about of (true) nothingness, that ability is limited to Michael and the Presence.

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@gokuisthebest: Regarding Destiny, I was talking about Lucifer's latest run. Lucifer can hold the book, edit it, and destroy Destiny whenever he wants, while wingless and probably not at full power.

Death generally doesn't give a **** about anything, she takes everything lightly. She implied Lucifer could kill her and that he is not actually dead, he is stuck in a place between life and death because of his own power that wills him to live and die at the same time.

Morpheus admitted Lucifer is far more powerful than anyone including himself except only for the Presence.

Destney admitted Lucifer could destroy him at will, I can't post a pic because this thread will be taken down. Morpheus went prepared for his death.

Lucifer can manipulate Dreams, Destiny, Desire, Death.. etc. On a multiversal scale, that was shown panel, Lucifer could even rewrite the book of Destiny to his liking.

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Lucifer Morningstar.

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calljhonthanapp

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Lucifer is only secnd to the P or thats what I think

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Gokuisthebest

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@happylife1996: I know the latest lucifer run. Lucifer can't do anything to destiny without destiny willing it.

Death doesn't give a shit about anything is because they all come to her at the end. She never lol people misunderstand that too much. Bro you ok, he is only alive because of Melos and when placed into the line between life and death he couldn't do anything because he would have died and guess what he accepts that and says "I will wait for another option" or miracle in this context and a miracle shows up in the form of Elaine and she kills herself for lucifer and lucifer gets revived. So........ everything you said is wrong.

Why would that apply to the endless? And do you know that he follows rules which makes him weak.

He said prolly not 100% and again destiny follows rules on top of being bound by himself. I have read the comic and why would this thread be taken down? Again lucifer can use his powers however he likes but Morpheus can not because of the GODDAMN rules. (which he and the rest of the endless follow because they want to accept death she doesn't follow any rules) and this was in hell.

Lucifer couldn't do anything to Izanami (and had to follow the rules) and Izanami is scared of dream LMFAO (have you read lucifer or even the sandman). When has he done anything that is in the endless domain??????

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Gokuisthebest

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@beckoned said:

Even Dream, fully prepared with his battle-helmet, sand, and gem, knew that he wouldn't be able to survive a battle with Lucifer. He even referred to Lucifer the second most powerful being in all of creation.

We also learn in the Lucifer series that Death has no claim on his soul even when he accidentally destroyed himself with his own power.

And at the end of the book he leaves God's Plan (which is associated with Destiny's Book).

Only the Presence can stand up to Lucifer in terms of power. Which makes sense, since he literally has the Presence ability command substance and shape. The only thing he can't do is create things about of (true) nothingness, that ability is limited to Michael and the Presence.

Yet we see in issue 4 that he went to hell with only his sand lmfao. And wasn't even scared of lucifer or any demon because he was there to get something that he owned thus being no affected by the rules but since when he went to hell for nada he was not following the rules thus he was weak and this is after all lucifers domain.

Have you read the comic? Because he even accepts that death will claim him and even in that same issue he couldn't do anything to death. LOL

Lucifer has gotten smacked multiple times in his own comic by people other than the presence like Michael or Gabriel GGS.

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Lucifer creates them, and he can destroy them with a thought.

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Gokuisthebest

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@opatuik: lmfao you haven't touched lucifer or sandman have you?

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Supermanwithatan01

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Lucy

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@gokuisthebest:

Lucifer is only behind the prescence. He fodderize everyone zero difficulty.

Lucifer doesn’t care about sandman. He fodderize him with no effort.

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Gokuisthebest

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@gokuisthebest:

I know the latest lucifer run. Lucifer can't do anything to destiny without destiny willing it

Nice theory. Unfortunately, it's irrelevant without evidence.

Death doesn't give a shit about anything is because they all come to her at the end. She never lol people misunderstand that too much. Bro you ok, he is only alive because of Melos and when placed into the line between life and death he couldn't do anything because he would have died and guess what he accepts that and says "I will wait for another option" or miracle in this context and a miracle shows up in the form of Elaine and she kills herself for lucifer and lucifer gets revived. So........ everything you said is wrong.

Lucifer was stuck in the first place because of his own power. Death went there just to talk to him and claim Elaine. And she implied Lucifer could destroy her.

Why would that apply to the endless? And do you know that he follows rules which makes him weak.

Because that applies to every character in DC. Rules have nothing to do with the actual power they posses being inferior to what Lucifer has.

He said prolly not 100% and again destiny follows rules on top of being bound by himself. I have read the comic and why would this thread be taken down? Again lucifer can use his powers however he likes but Morpheus can not because of the GODDAMN rules. (which he and the rest of the endless follow because they want to accept death she doesn't follow any rules) and this was in hell.

Well, if you added that to Dream stating that Lucifer is the strongest, it becomes clear that it’s not about rules, it's about Destiny being inferior to Lucifer.

Lucifer couldn't do anything to Izanami (and had to follow the rules) and Izanami is scared of dream LMFAO (have you read lucifer or even the sandman). When has he done anything that is in the endless domain??????

Just like Lucifer also being only able bring the ones he killed by himself to life and not the rest, it's probably a limitation to his power that was set by the Presence, Izanami's dimension is an afterlife which falls in the Presence domain. It can't be anything other than a technicality since Lucifer can make multiverses and call it the easy work.

Anyway, I think it's clear that you're not debating honestly. You have you're mind set on a point of view despite the comic itself being against it. So, it's pointless to debate with you any further.

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Gokuisthebest

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@happylife1996: It ain't a theory mate, it is faxs.

Lucifer only lived because of Melos and recovered because of elaine killing herself. Death was there to see big things happen which she stated and if lucifer died she would have claimed him but she knows this because she is omniscient.

Endless isn't like normal characters. With the endless it does since Morpheus cant kill a family member does that mean everyone in his family is above him?

Again why would it apply to the endless? And they follow rules as stated many many many times.

Lucifer cant, end of the story. Izanami's realm is outside creation and isn't affected by lucifer or presence. Stop making headcanon.

Funny how you said two characters are connected when you get debunked by the comic.

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EternalChampion

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#24  Edited By EternalChampion

Lucifer can kill the specific incarnations of the endless in a straight fight, but he cannot destroy the concepts themselves. i.e. like when Morpheus died in Sandman, and Daniel Hall mantled Dream. Death also mentioned in the Lucifer series, that killing her would simply be like shooting the messenger, the concept of death itself would still exist, even if that specific incarnation of death dies.

The concepts that the endless embody do have some power over Lucifer, his entire arc in Carey's run was trying to escape predestination. Lucifer burned a page from destiny's book, but it was revealed that the book already knew he would do that.

Michael also died in Carey's run, but only because he allowed himself to, if he wanted he could simply re-spawn like he did earlier in the series.

Though, the Lucifer in Dan Watters' run seems to be beyond death entirely, and managed to survive conceptual erasure. He erased his name from Destiny's book, and ceased to be entirely, but was reborn again anyway at the end of the series.

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elvinisaev42

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#25  Edited By elvinisaev42

@beckoned: The Dreaming is infinite. Morpheus placed too much of his power in the dreamstone. He doesn't have it. This was why Lucifer was stronger than him.

https://elvinisaev.tumblr.com/post/648573085557112832/the-dreamstone-is-made-of-morpheuss-own-being

https://elvinisaev.tumblr.com/post/648563663773532161/the-dreaming-is-infinite-and-is-part-of-morpheus

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Darkvanderling

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It’s common sense that Lucifer ot Michael would be above the Endless considering they’re second to the Presence and both are also vested with their father’s powers.

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Gokuisthebest

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@darkvanderling: It's common sense to read the comic and not say random bullshit.

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elvinisaev42

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@gokuisthebest: @darkvanderling:

The Presence got killed by Gabriel Hornblower. Evil Presence who has the same powers as Presence got killed by Lucifer Moringstar.

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Deathknight203

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Gokuisthebest

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@elvinisaev42: Bro Presence>lucifer any day of the week. Lucifer also cant affect the presence of power in any shape or form, and he even agrees that the presence planned the whole event. Also elaine with the presence power had domain over lucifer even when Lucifer tried to fight it back (i.e. when she give his powers back when he didn't want it). Also when Lucifer was in the dreaming he was under Morpheus power and couldn't do anything about it (which he agreed to) but this is weakened Lucifer but I also think that a full power lucifer cant does anything to Morpheus in the dreaming.

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elvinisaev42

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#33  Edited By elvinisaev42

@deathknight203: @gokuisthebest: I think you are brining your own personal religious beliefs to a fictional comicbook character.

Gabriel Hornblower Vs The Presence

No Caption Provided

Lucifer Moringstar Vs Presence

No Caption Provided

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Gokuisthebest

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@elvinisaev42: Do you have a brain?

It was confirmed that the evil being is weaker than Gabriel. (presence is infinte> Gabriel)

Also lucifer confirmed that it was his plan for this to happen.

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elvinisaev42

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@elvinisaev42: Do you have a brain?

It was confirmed that the evil being is weaker than Gabriel. (presence is infinte> Gabriel)

Also lucifer confirmed that it was his plan for this to happen.

It do. I'm not believing in your head canon.

Show me proof.

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elvinisaev42

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#36  Edited By elvinisaev42

@gokuisthebest: If the Presence is omnipotent. Why he didn't do anything against Mageddon? He abandoned earth, and new earth universe.

No Caption Provided

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Gokuisthebest

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Lucifer Morningstar.

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elvinisaev42

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@gokuisthebest: My point is that the Presence isn't that powerful like you claim him to be.

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elvinisaev42

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Gokuisthebest

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elvinisaev42

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@gokuisthebest: No. In their realm they are omnipotent. Outside they are far weaker, and they obey the rules.

I like to point that out. Lucifer Moringstar is powerless when going to someone else's domain.

It is similar to the New Gods, and how they interact.

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elvinisaev42

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#44  Edited By elvinisaev42

@gokuisthebest: It depends on circumstance. You can check out my list who is the most powerful characters in dc comics.

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Yungbaby

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Going with Lucifer here

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Gokuisthebest

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Deathknight203

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@deathknight203: He is very much on par with his brother who is above the endless