The Empire vs The Avengers

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Aros001

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Earth's mightiest heroes vs Everyone's favorite villain, his master, their army, and yes, their Death Star.

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Edude117

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With the Death Star, the Empire'd just blow up the planet regardless of whether we're using the movie or EU version. Without it, it depends on what versions of Palpatine and Vader we're using and how many troops the Empire has. If we're using EU Sidious, he solo's. EU Vader would do a shit ton of damage, but would eventually die when Hulk or Thor get to him. And if we're using the movie versions, with enough troops and vehicles, they'd be able to take this.

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Cjdavis103

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@edude117:

Movie tropes are a non factor in this battle they can not hit tree in a forest ( that is impressive inaccuracy)

but for the rest pretty much

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Edude117

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#4  Edited By Edude117

@cjdavis103: Yeah. OP needs to specify if we're using the movie Empire or EU Empire. Tbh, there are a lot of people who can beat the movie Empire...

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Cjdavis103

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#5  Edited By Cjdavis103

@edude117:

not without the death star blowing up the planet

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HBKTimHBK

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The Empire...kinda an easy one here

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Shot

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#7  Edited By Shot

Probably the empire.

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Edude117

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RBT

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Empire. Pretty easily.

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Cjdavis103

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Movie empire = avengers stomp

EU = Sidious solos

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Edude117

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@cjdavis103 said:

Movie empire = avengers stomp

EU = Sidious solos

They wouldn't stomp the movie Empire. Considering how the Death Star is a factor, the Empire would blow the planet up therefore, unless they somehow disable/destroy the Death Star, the Avengers lose pretty badly. Yeah, the troops are complete trash and Sidious & Vader aren't too impressive, but it's that damned DS that gives 'em the victory, imo.

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Cjdavis103

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#12  Edited By Cjdavis103

@edude117:

they have people who can tank planet busting attacks an Avenger pulls out the ultimate sacrifice to save the earth. and all it takes is magneto to mess up the death star . and the Avengers have sevral moon busters on staff to destroy it once they get past the shields which should be easy

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Edude117

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#13  Edited By Edude117

@cjdavis103 said:

@edude117:

they have people who can tank planet busting attacks an Avenger pulls out the ultimate sacrifice to save the earth. and all it takes is magneto to mess up the death star . and the Avengers have sevral moon busters on staff to destroy it once they get past the shields which should be easy

First off, Magneto isn't an Avenger. Second off, I'm sure Thor could destroy it, but if Thor leaves the battle ground to go for the DS, that leaves everyone on the ground much more vulnerable as their most powerful ally is absent. And Thor'll have to disable the Death Star before it fires. Since Sidious, regardless of the version, will sense the immense power of the Avengers, he'd order them to fire that thing immediately. Sure, maybe Thor would survive, but at that point it'd be Thor vs. the Death Star, it's crew, and Sidious. Thor loses that battle 6/10 times. By the way, to my knowledge, the only Avenger that could survive a blast that powerful and still be able to fight is Thor. Hulk would be knocked-out cold, that is, if he doesn't get obliterated.

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Cjdavis103

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@edude117:

he just has to block the beam and he has tanked plaet busting attacks before. and he just have to block it once because it takes a long time to charge it to full. and then Thor can just toss the hulk at the DS at let him solo the crew. or thor could do it while Hulk solos the ground forces

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mjolnirson

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#15  Edited By mjolnirson

one pilot and death star stomps and the whole empire massive stomps.

why? hulk can't reach them, if he is the hulk from the movies i really dont think that he can tank a planet buster hit, and even if we are talking about the comics hulk he just can't reach the death star. ironman, hawkeye, black widow (from movies or comics) are nothing to darth vader. thor... ok he solos if is thor from comics, but the thor from the movies... emm, i dont know if he can survive the void from space...

i only mentioned this group of avengers because they are the only in the pic

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Edude117

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@cjdavis103 said:

@edude117:

he just has to block the beam and he has tanked plaet busting attacks before. and he just have to block it once because it takes a long time to charge it to full. and then Thor can just toss the hulk at the DS at let him solo the crew. or thor could do it while Hulk solos the ground forces

I mean, we also have to take into account what version of the Avengers we're using. Based on the picture, it looks to be the Avengers (2012 movie) version. If so, movie version Empire could totally win this.

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Cjdavis103

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Edude117

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#18  Edited By Edude117

@aros001: What versions of both are you using?

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reikai

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#19  Edited By reikai

Comic Thor goes around and rapes the Empire. Taking his time as he does so. I've seen people argue on the SWTOR forums before that the Death Star could stop comic Hulk. I would laugh except they were being serious. Which should've been funny, except the ineptitude of their arguments made me want to slap them.

If it's movie versions of both, Empire just uses Death Star and wins. If it's Comic, Thor solos. And Hulk gradually solos. Everyone else sits back and goes out for drinks.

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Aros001

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@edude117: Movie vs movie or comics vs EU or any combo you want, your choice.

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ShootingNova

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#21  Edited By ShootingNova
@reikai said:

Comic Thor goes around and rapes the Empire. Taking his time as he does so. I've seen people argue on the SWTOR forums before that the Death Star could stop comic Hulk. I would laugh except they were being serious. Which should've been funny, except the ineptitude of their arguments made me want to slap them.

If it's movie versions of both, Empire just uses Death Star and wins. If it's Comic, Thor solos. And Hulk gradually solos. Everyone else sits back and goes out for drinks.

I've seen you claim worse. I would laugh, except unfortunately you were seriously misinformed, and biased. The conjecture, fallacy and made-up information existent in your posts is revolting.

On the other hand - I don't think mentioning the SW: TOR forums is good anyways since about two or three people on the forum actually know what they are talking about. The rest don't even know anything about SW beyond the movies. They only pretend to know the EU.

Regarding the thread - which Death Star is this? And where does this take place? Assuming the Earth doesn't get blown up by the Death Star - none of the Avengers can resist a Wormhole (which could just wipe the Earth clean), and can't harm Palpatine's essence.

Beyond that, they could beat everybody else in the Empire, as in Iron Man defeating Vader - and the rest destroying the generic troops. The only real issue is Palpatine (and the Death Star itself).

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Edude117

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#22  Edited By Edude117

@aros001 said:

@edude117: Movie vs movie or comics vs EU or any combo you want, your choice.

Then the Empire wins both rounds, in my opinion. Nice match up, though. Seeing as the Avengers have fought against similar threats before.

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Onemoreposter

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Can the Avengers get the Scarlet Witch?

"No more force users" seems like it would be a pretty effective attack.

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Pharoh_Atem

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The Empire.

Palpatine BFR's Hulk via Force storm and turns Thor head into a toilet via TP, while the rest of the Empire defeats the rest of the Avengers.

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ShootingNova

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The Empire.

Palpatine BFR's Hulk via Force storm and turns Thor head into a toilet via TP, while the rest of the Empire defeats the rest of the Avengers.

LOL, could you please stop saying that? I know it's not literal, but it just sounds funny.

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Pharoh_Atem

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@shootingnova:

xP I got it from Citizen Bane, he said one thread that "MM would turn Thor's head into a toilet".....So I just kind of took the saying and ran with it. :D

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reikai

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#28  Edited By reikai

@shootingnova:

No I just don't blindly bend over and take it from the SW franchise. I don't claim Palpy can take on the Surfer or Thor or even Thanos as I've seen people do. I don't claim Vader's invincibility to everyone save his kid and Sid. I don't claim Sid's TP beats everyone in fiction either.

And anytime I stick Palpy or Vader or Kun or any other SW figure against someone they can't TP or speedblitz, all the little SW fanboys hide in the corner and mutter vehemently to themselves.

And in this case I've already made my case abundantly clear.

Option A: Movie Avengers get blown up with the planet.

Option B: Thor slaughters the Empire and Hulk uses the Death Star like a basket ball.

To argue otherwise is a fools errand. This is what it comes down to here. It's not complicated.

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ShootingNova

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@reikai: LOL @ Vader being invincible. Who claimed that? Who claimed Palpatine's TP was the most powerful in fiction? I'm sorry, is that your imagination? Or your anti-bias? Or the SW:TOR forums?

Well, I can accept Vader and the rest of the Empire getting defeated, but even if Palpatine got killed I don't see how they can harm his essence.

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Edude117

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Regarding the thread - which Death Star is this? And where does this take place? Assuming the Earth doesn't get blown up by the Death Star - none of the Avengers can resist a Wormhole (which could just wipe the Earth clean), and can't harm Palpatine's essence.

Beyond that, they could beat everybody else in the Empire, as in Iron Man defeating Vader - and the rest destroying the generic troops. The only real issue is Palpatine (and the Death Star itself).

First off, correct me if I'm wrong, but Sidious's fighting speed/prowess, knowledge, expertise, and ingenuity in the Force, etc. could possibly take on the Avengers without the need of creating a Force Storm wormhole. A Force Storm of his has turned on him once so he'd just be endangering himself and his whole army in the process. He might not and probably wouldn't need to take that risk. In fact, considering how Sidious' TP is said to be on the same level as Luke's, he could just dominate Thor's mind and use him as a weapon before destroying him, right?

Second off, I really don't think Iron Man can take on Darth Vader. Now, with the combined efforts of Iron Man, Hulk, and especially Thor, Vader's done in less than a second, however I think Vader could survive an encounter with Iron Man alone, if not without a problem. Everyone's so fed up with people immediately claiming Force Choke'll destroy "any and all of Vader's enemies" so I'll spare you the ignorance - despite that being a viable Force ability that Vader has at his disposal - however, Vader, unless Iron Man has his Hulkbuster armor on, could crush Iron Mans suit thus crushing Stark. Vader has some impressive TK feats so I don't see why that couldn't happen. He could also use Kenitite or Force Destruction to take down Tony. If he even get's too close to Vaders Force Destruction blast, Tony or at least his armor's done for. That is, unfortunately, a very taxing Force ability so Vader would only use it once or twice at most (there's no evidence to prove that Kinetite is a necessarily demanding Force ability). If, on the off chance, Tony does dodge the Destruction or Kinetite blasts, Vader is known to be a proficient user of Force Barrier, Force Deflection, and several other Tutaminis Force techniques. He could deflect//tank/absorb most of what Iron Man throws at him ESPECIALLY if this is Movie-Stark. Vader has tanked Force blasts that've disintegrated armored soldiers before without even flinching. I'm sure Vader wouldn't have too much trouble avoiding damage dealt by Stark. I've heard Iron Man has some crazy Repulsor Beams, though, but Vader also has astonishing speed (not on Luke's, Sidious', Yoda's, etc. level, but still pretty fast). Couldn't he speed blitz those beams? All that being said, I'm almost positive Iron Man would be the least of Vader's worries. Hulk on the other hand...

Third off, I might or might not be wrong here, but in the EU, the Empire's troops, vehicles, weaponry, and technology is actually quite powerful and potent. Maybe Hulk, Stark, and Thor can go unphased, but Hawkeye, Black Widow, and the Captain (if someone get's a good hit in) would be in a sticky situation.

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Pharoh_Atem

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#31  Edited By Pharoh_Atem

@shootingnova: Honestly I don't see why people even entertain Reikai on these threads.... I took the rout Silver took and completely ignore him in these threads......

He has claimed Palatine is only as fast as sound, when Ben has done this:

After that-Jacen would be disappointed in him if he didn't figure out some way off this station, but Ben didn't have time right now. The stare down between the guards ended. Irritably, the man stepped out of the way and the woman inserted her identicard in the slot. Everything began to move in slow motion, as though the entire corridor were suddenly submerged in thick, invisible fluid. Ben saw the door begin to slide upward. Doors like this opened almost instantly, but his time perception was so dilated that he watched at as it rose a meter.

He held his hand above his pouch and tugged through the Force. His lightsaber leapt up into his hand, and he snapped it on, swinging it at the hovering droid even as the distorted snap-his noise announced that the blade was coming alive. Instead of slashing, he leapt upward and thrust down, aiming for the deflector shield nodules. The point of his lightsaber blade sheared through the bronze hull there, punching into the droid's insides. Ben kept his hands on the lightsaber handle, letting his weight drag the weapon down through the droid. The droid fell almost as fast as he did-with agonizing slowness and Ben could see the male guard reacting to attack, bringing his rifle barrel up

--Taken rom Legacy of the Force: Betrayal

Ben was not even able to follow the movements of Jacen and Luke when they fought, yet they're under the speed of sound. *Eye roll*

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ShootingNova

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@edude117: Yes, but I'm just presenting an easy way. That's obviously not just Palpatine's only method of winning. And the wormhole turning on him is the result of Luke and Leia using Force Harmony, which the Avengers cannot utilize.

He can also control his Wormholes so they won't place his side at risk, or at minimal risk. Not that he would care if he lost a few Stormtroopers.

For Iron Man against Vader - that's been done plenty of times and you can search it up if you want to get a clear answer.

Your last point - I understand the effectiveness of the Imperial military, although I'm not sure where this battle takes place (if its on the Death Star, then the Empire won't have access to Walkers and the likes). That said, comic Thor and Iron Man are easily much faster than Imperial reaction speeds, meaning they can't do much. They also can't permanently harm Hulk aside from Palpatine.

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ShootingNova

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@dccomicsrule2011: I probably should join you too.

If you could respond to the other Dooku thread in six hours, that'd be great.

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Mxyzptlk_CV

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Death Star solos :P :P

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Pharoh_Atem

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#35  Edited By Pharoh_Atem

@edude117:

A Force Storm of his has turned on him once so he'd just be endangering himself and his whole army in the process.

No it wouldn't. The only reason Palpatine's Force storm :turned on him" was because Luke, Leia, and Anakin bathed him in Force light.... That's the only reason. Before he mastered Force storms he was able to create one with such precision, that he was able to transfer himself from the Death Star II to Byss with out damaging said battle station.

Second off, I really don't think Iron Man can take on Darth Vader. Now, with the combined efforts of Iron Man, Hulk, and especially Thor, Vader's done in less than a second, however I think Vader could survive an encounter with Iron Man alone, if not without a problem.

No he wouldn't. Iron-Man would beat Vader.

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reikai

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#36  Edited By reikai

@shootingnova:

Plot-Device Magical Hammer tends to take care of that. Could blast him straight to Hel. He's been there before already. And there's the other inane argument; "Oh his Essence is still there so he doesn't lose!" That didn't work for Starscream against Rainbowdash. It won't work here.

Reminders: Darth Sidious vs. Vampire Hunter D, Galactic Empire vs. The Nobility (VHD), and I still love the intro I did on that 2nd one.

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Earthquake_2123

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@cjdavis103: Not the movie version of the Avengers. They don't have planet busters. Comic Avengers vs EU Empire= Sith stomps

Movie Version Avengers vs Movie Empire=Empire planet bust them with death star and 150 troops.

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Pharoh_Atem

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@dccomicsrule2011: I probably should join you too.

If you could respond to the other Dooku thread in six hours, that'd be great.

I'm already working on it. :P

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reikai

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#39  Edited By reikai

@earthquake_2123:

Comic Hulk is all but immune to TP, which makes Sid absolutely useless against him. And Thor is highly resistant. Wormhole is also useless. Thor can create them as well and cross space and dimensions. It wouldn't even bother Hulk, much less get him before he clapped his hands together and exploded Palpy into vapor with a Thunderclap.

But what's that? "Sith can TK a thousand ton starship!" well golly gee! I'm afraid m'friend Hulk here kin lift a few billion tonnes worth'a mountain there and yank on them there plates that be shiftin around inside'er the earth an such.

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Earthquake_2123

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#40  Edited By Earthquake_2123

@reikai: You got scans for these guys being resistant to planetary TP or instant Worm Holes On the same level as guy who mind wiped 20 billion effortlessly.-Sidious that is. Because last time I checked Professor X was making WWH(which isn't in this fight) scream when he used TP on him. Also brute strength does not beat a very powerful force user who know every dark side ability possible and even formulated knew ones.

No Caption Provided

@reikai said:

@earthquake_2123:

Comic Hulk is all but immune to TP, which makes Sid absolutely useless against him. And Thor is highly resistant. Wormhole is also useless. Thor can create them as well and cross space and dimensions. It wouldn't even bother Hulk, much less get him before he clapped his hands together and exploded Palpy into vapor with a Thunderclap.

But what's that? "Sith can TK a thousand ton starship!" well golly gee! I'm afraid m'friend Hulk here kin lift a few billion tonnes worth'a mountain there and yank on them there plates that be shiftin around inside'er the earth an such.

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Edude117

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#41  Edited By Edude117

@shootingnova said:

@edude117: Yes, but I'm just presenting an easy way. That's obviously not just Palpatine's only method of winning. And the wormhole turning on him is the result of Luke and Leia using Force Harmony, which the Avengers cannot utilize. I completely forgot about that. Thanks for clearing that up.

He can also control his Wormholes so they won't place his side at risk, or at minimal risk. Not that he would care if he lost a few Storm troopers. I forgot to mention that. Didn't he use a wormhole to teleport Luke from Coruscant to Byss in the Dark Empire series?

For Iron Man against Vader - that's been done plenty of times and you can search it up if you want to get a clear answer. Alright, thanks.

Your last point - I understand the effectiveness of the Imperial military, although I'm not sure where this battle takes place (if its on the Death Star, then the Empire won't have access to Walkers and the likes). That said, comic Thor and Iron Man are easily much faster than Imperial reaction speeds, meaning they can't do much. They also can't permanently harm Hulk aside from Palpatine. Very true.

@edude117:

Second off, I really don't think Iron Man can take on Darth Vader. Now, with the combined efforts of Iron Man, Hulk, and especially Thor, Vader's done in less than a second, however I think Vader could survive an encounter with Iron Man alone, if not without a problem.

No he wouldn't. Iron-Man would beat Vader.

I'll look up an Iron Man vs. Vader thread. If you're right, must be either reeeaaaallllllllyyy underestimating Iron Man or reeeaaaallllllllyyy overestimating Vader. Do you know if Silver ever got around to making that Darth Vader Respect thread?

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reikai

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#42  Edited By reikai

@earthquake_2123:

Xavier can't TP Hulk. Xavier beats out Palpy in TP. Tp'ing 20billion nobodies that involved a ritual and prep to do =/= mindraping the entirety of Marvel Earth including other Telepaths and millions of people with super powers. And again, Thor can create portals. Which makes Palpy's wormholes utterly useless.

No Caption Provided

Nvm Thor dragging Rulk away from a black hole. And, btw, Xavier was trying to shut down Hulk's mind in that scene. What he got was a backlash of Hulk's memories from Skaar. In fact, Xavier had so little control over that event, that all of the X-Men present witnessed them.

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Edude117

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#43  Edited By Edude117
@reikai said:

@earthquake_2123:

Xavier can't TP Hulk. Xavier beats out Palpy in TP. Tp'ing 20billion nobodies that involved a ritual and prep to do =/= mindraping the entirety of Marvel Earth including other Telepaths and millions of people with super powers. And again, Thor can create portals. Which makes Palpy's wormholes utterly useless.

No Caption Provided

Nvm Thor dragging Rulk away from a black hole. And, btw, Xavier was trying to shut down Hulk's mind in that scene. What he got was a backlash of Hulk's memories from Skaar. In fact, Xavier had so little control over that event, that all of the X-Men present witnessed them.

Nobodies? A ritual and prep time to do? Palp's wormholes useless just because someone else can make them, too? /sigh Stahp it, plz...

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Fodder76

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This thread has made me lose faith in humanity the Empire wins in any incarnation.

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reikai

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@edude117: Wormhole made to BFR people. That doesn't work as Thor can come right back, and it wouldn't even hurt Thor nor the Hulk who've taken forces far more devastating than that. And clearly you don't know how Palpy TP'd those people since you question even the method of how it was done. I've seen the quotes and anyone even paying attention to them can get those little details that involve prep and the use of Acolytes to complete the rituals that created those effects.

Let's make this easy for you. The only weapons in the Empire's arsenal of any value is Palpy's TP and Force Wormhole. Neither of those will work. Which means the Empire loses.

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Earthquake_2123

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#46  Edited By Earthquake_2123

@reikai said:

@earthquake_2123:

Xavier can't TP Hulk. Xavier beats out Palpy in TP. Tp'ing 20billion nobodies that involved a ritual and prep to do =/= mindraping the entirety of Marvel Earth including other Telepaths and millions of people with super powers. And again, Thor can create portals. Which makes Palpy's wormholes utterly useless.

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Nvm Thor dragging Rulk away from a black hole. And, btw, Xavier was trying to shut down Hulk's mind in that scene. What he got was a backlash of Hulk's memories from Skaar. In fact, Xavier had so little control over that event, that all of the X-Men present witnessed them.

He did so effortlessly. being "nobodies" is a matter of opinion

Palpatine drains the life force of the population of Byss (almost twenty billion) slowly while travelling across the galaxy, doing whatever he is:

Throughout the worlds submissive to the Empire, Byss is renowned as a paradise, whose siren call multitudes to willingly apply for emigration to its shores. Once there, wrapped in the power of the dark side, the immigrants become completely submissive, their life energy forever enslaved to the mind that would devour a galaxy.

--Taken from the Dark Empire endnotes

And Palpatine enslaves the minds of all those on Byss, which again, totals nearly twenty billion, and he does so simultaneously, instantaneously and effortlessly. Also it was without prep. He was doing so for years.

What better lure for multitudes than Byss's siren call of beauty and peace? Once there, their wills are destroyed by the Emperor and his Adepts, and replaced with an illusion of tranquility as they blissfully surrender their life energy to sustain the Emperor.

--Taken from Dark Empire Sourcebook

This>>Professor X's showings

Also my scan still shows Hulk being susceptible to TP which you said he was not, so I just proved you wrong in that instance. What is that scan supposed to prove? It shows neither Thor or Hulk being resistant to TP on a planetary level which was my whole point.

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Edude117

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#47  Edited By Edude117

@reikai said:

@edude117: Wormhole made to BFR people. That doesn't work as Thor can come right back, and it wouldn't even hurt Thor nor the Hulk who've taken forces far more devastating than that. And clearly you don't know how Palpy TP'd those people since you question even the method of how it was done. I've seen the quotes and anyone even paying attention to them can get those little details that involve prep and the use of Acolytes to complete the rituals that created those effects.

Let's make this easy for you. The only weapons in the Empire's arsenal of any value is Palpy's TP and Force Wormhole. Neither of those will work. Which means the Empire loses.

No. Palpatine did not require a ritual or Acolytes to TP the entire population of Byss. How the hell would Acolytes be in any way useful in a Sith ritual of such magnitude anyway? Look, I don't doubt that you're well versed in Marvel, but if you think that Sidious' only weapons are TP and Force Storm (there's no such thing as Force Wormhole), then you are not well versed in Star Wars. You don't even know the magnitude of Sidious' telepathy. You need to do some research before you post again.

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Earthquake_2123

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#48  Edited By Earthquake_2123

@reikai: Also ESSENCE TRANSFER. They still can't kill/harm Palp when does so unless anybody on The Avengers team knows Force Harmony/Force Light....OH WAIT, THEY DON'T. So Empire still wins.

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@reikai: Also ESSENCE TRANSFER. They still can't kill/harm Palp when does so unless anybody on The Avengers team knows Force Harmony/Force Light....OH WAIT, THEY DON'T. So Empire still wins.

He probably won't even need to use Essence Transfer. lol

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