The Dragonborn vs. The Courier

Actually there's a way of using Alchemy potions and an Amulet of Talos to reduce the CDT for Shouts to negative numbers, essentially no CDT and infinite shouting.

ARE YOU BEING SERIOUS HOW. NOW I CAN FINALLY MAKE A GREYBEARD BUILD.

Yusss

My character is going to rip the courier in half lol.

Holy balls, this is real! And I thought making gloves that one shotted Elder Dragons in a punch were epic.

Kind of hard to believe this has been almost 8 months since I made this. Both sides have made good points from Ethereal Shouts and Time slowing down to Super Nukes and Orbital Lasers. I think it's okay for me to bump this, but if its not I apologize. Let's see if anyone has something new to say though =)

love both universe but whats stoping the DB from stoping time and obliterating courrior?

Tje one who revived this thread is a powerful Necromancer.

Dovahkiin can burst mountains with his Thu'um LORE wise. He stomps.

Well Courier. It's a better game ;)

Champion of Cyrodill beats all.

@darthaznable:

Lol Makes me want to play it again. Too bad the DLC was disappointing.

Dovahkiin.

Extreme necro due to no one pointing out what a massacre this is.

Easy to compare due to shared mechanics. First the vitals:

Fully decked out Daedric Armor DB - 80% reduction of damage.

Naked C6 - 85% reduction, plus another 80% AFTER that if he tosses even the lowliest armor on (plus perks).

Since health will be about the same the survivability/soak of C6 is exponentially higher.

Since the mechanics are shared we really only need to look at actual damage numbers but for the sake of analysis let's go more thorough. If the DB were to hit himself with his best weapons what would happen? A scratch. If the naked C6 hit himself with his best weapons what happens? Brink of death. We have already established that decked out DB and naked C6 have a similar soak ergo C6's weapons are VASTLY superior to DB's.

But Toy, it is all about the shouts and spells! Are you talking about all those activated or cast, cooldown or resource using, temporary effects? C6 has most of them naturally and permanently:

Cast an Invisibility spell using up magicka and wasting time, only for it to go away the second you do anything? C6 just popped a Stealth Boy or two for basically permanent invisibility.

Use your Slow Time shout for a temporary slow time effect, wasting time and shout cooldown? Big deal, C6 just chewed down some Turbo/GRX for a basically permanent slow time effect.

Bunch of animals around for your Allegiance shout? Don't bother, our worst perk already has them fighting against you and as Spriggans prove natural allegiance > shouts.

Try to bend our will? Good luck, we are Brainless - the universal sign in fantasy universes that one is immune to mind effects.

Got your little Standing Stone paralysis or a coated arrow or sword ready? Go ahead, Heartless renders us immune to poisons.

Think your Elemental Fury is neat? You haven't seen our Rushing Water War Club.

Literally everything the DB can do is either a complete no sell or totally outdone by C6.

ARCHIMEDES II.

Nuff said.

@toy13:

@saint_of_origin: :)

I was going to go deeper into the scenarios like Serana getting beat down by mudcrabs compared to Boone one-shotting everything within a half mile. Or that fact that Dun-something and Odi-something were brought down by arrows or rope before mentioning the weaponry on a Vertibird or Liberty Prime. But it seemed unnecessary knowing The Courier could solo all of Tamriel (Skyrim's version at least) without breaking a sweat.

This is a hard one. i'm guessing that they will be at the best of their abilities. so in my mind it goes: courier with remnant armor and dragonborn with daedric armor. looking at it one way, arrows in skyrim are lethal, even wearing daedric armor. i'm going to rule out exploits for unlimited armor as some people in skyrim have done. so if arrows are lethal, that means bullets, missiles, bombs and energy projection should be waaay more effective on the dragonborn. however magic plays a big part as well. This match is like a game of chess, way too many outcomes to truly decipher a winner. courier could one shot with a fatman, and if courier goes ethereal...shoot him again. if dragonborn goes all out and is able to close a gap with courier, he wins. if courier finds dragonborn and is able to keep range, he wins.

I once gave Boone an AMR. It was brutal. I barely ever saw combat lmao.

Fallout 4.

What version wouldn't he soloish?

@kingogkings777: Oblivion's and Morrowind's (with hax). Due solely to those games' protagonists being present in their versions.

*headtilt* Why are people still trying to fight this? Dovahkiin stomps. Already long explained all of the reasons why.

@reikai: I pointed out all the reasons back at 61. Care to address it? Without Lore in play it is the Courier that stomps.

Tiny tots pew pew.

Stone Wall perk- Cannot be knocked down

Phoenix Monocyte Breeder- health regeneration

Rad absorption- constantly reduces radiation poisoning

Friendly Help- Mysterious stranger & Misfortune visits double

Heartless Perk- Cannot be poisoned

Brainless Perk- Head cannot be crippled

Spineless Perk- Torso Cannot be crippled

Sub-dermal Armor- Increase skins density with Iron to improve protection

Admantium Skeleton- needs no explanation

Wearing a suit that auto injects stimpaks + Med x & tells you of near by threats + head gear with health regeneration

Sporting the .50 Caliber Sniper rifle with hollow point rounds for long range, ARCHMEDES II for mid range(orbital strike), and The Fist of Rwar for close range

Prep time goes to building a Liberty Prime to spam mini nukes and plasma lasers. Laying irradiated waste to everything as well as drawing out DB's location.

Well coming into this battle completely jacked up on stealth boys, psycho, Med-x, ultra jet, ultra stimpaks, slasher, nuke cola quantum, Yao guai meat and whatever else The Courier can get his hands on

How is the Courier supposed to lose?

RAUL SOLOS

@toy13: Without lore, the Dovahkiin still can't be beaten. There's no level cap in Skyrim. The Dovahkiin can effectively level infinitely, and there are many ways of breaking the armor bonuses up past normal levels using a combination of enchanting and alchemy.

As I've already mentioned before, there are methods of completely removing the shout cooldown, effectively allowing the Dovahkiin to use shouts endlessly without limit. Nvm that we can also achieve an insane magica regen with enormously diminished cost of spells. Not including potions designed to reduce the cost even further and elixirs that bolster spell damage.

Now you say you can stack 80% dmg reduction ontop of 80% damage reduction and have it mean something. It really doesn't. FO4, like any other game, has a cap on the effective use of gear. You'll never be completely immune to damage. Also, 80% of 80% is not 160%. The additional 80% if only off the remaining 20% that gets through.

Also moot issue as FO4 doesn't have magic counters and 90% of it is all physical damage types. Dovahkiin has several abilities that bypass durability altogether, like Soul Tear and Mora's Agony. The Dovahkiin is also the only one here who can initiate an effect, and then remain intangible for however long he wants to thanks to negative cdt's. You want to try and win a battle of attrition and it's just not going to happen. The Dovahkiin can self-heal and doesn't just have high health regen but spells that regen health as well. On top of that, the spells also affect the Alteration and Restoration perks, both replenishing his stamina upon casting and mitigating the magica cost as well.

Essentially, not only can the Dovahkiin get over lv600 and bolster his defense rating over 2000points on just the armor, but has far more options in how to deal with Courier, while the latter has almost none to counter the Dovahkiin. The Courier can run out of gear and munitions. The Dovahkiin never runs out of magica or his shout abilities.

@reikai: For starters one has to assume that when OP says maxed he means within reason not infinite health. Crazy enough though I'll let you have millions of health because it won't matter.

The defense stats that I went in depth explaining and you obviously ignored are sound - DB at the armor cap ignores 80% of incoming physical damage, C6 ignores 85% of ALL incoming damage then another 80% after that applies. C6 is exponentially more durable than the DB.

The DB simply isn't hurting C6. His conventional weapons and magic will feel like mosquito bites to that soak, he is faster (when you aren't sprinting), he is invisible, he is immune to poisons and mind effects, etc, etc. I'll even humor you and pretend Soul Tear would bypass everything and hit a fast moving invisible target - so what? 300 damage? C6 recovers twice that every second.

The action economy hates the DB. Even if you do waste your amulet slot on shout cdr everything he does requires time and is short term. C6 doesn't need to waste time casting or reapplying his buffs, they will be up for days if not weeks or years. While DB wastes time praying his buffs keep him alive C6 is mounting a full offensive.

Worst case scenario for C6 is that DB stays ethereal like a little girl until the radiation kills him; most likely scenario is that DB and all of his alllies, dragons, summons, undead, etc die instantly from the first volley from C6.

@toy13: *sigh* you still never get it. For one, C6 isn't faster and Dovahkiin has numerous way of stalling, slowing and stopping him outright. And your BS meter on the buff times is just sad. You're now claiming immunity to things that don't even exist in FO. The fact you're going that far just shows how desperate you are. And you seem to forget that nothing can hurt the Dovahkiin while he is ethereal.

Also, invisible? So what? Dovahkiin has that already, in several forms, and can see all targets whether invisible or not. I also find it hilarious that you're trying to compare two very different gm systems. FO's is quite literally just D&D. It is exactly that and nothing else. C6 maxes at lv50. Dovahkiin has no level cap. You can try some BS like "within reason", well reason doesn't matter to the people who play the game and mod the living $hit out of it. The amount of dmg C6 could actually cause wouldn't even register to the Dovahkiin. Whereas I can get weapon dmg over 300 through smithing, enchanting and alchemy, plus perk bonuses and potion boons. And then crit dmg on top of stealth strike dmg multipliers.

Stealth hit with a dagger with Sneak perk is a 15xdmg bonus. Say 200dmg on dagger, x15 is 3000. Even according to your dmg reduction theory, I still do 1920dmg in one hit. I do believe I just killed C6 in one hit. And that's not including the other crit dmg bonus. And not including any damage enchantments.

@reikai: Courier is immune to crits, nice try though. Level 50 perk (and pretty resistant to them with a level 2 perk).

And you are so desperate that you are now utilizing exploits (enchanting/alchemy/smith loops) to try to beat C6? And still failing!?!

Go ahead and go ethereal, the second you perform an action you are solid again and then you die. Or you just sit there doing nothing while the radiation kills you. No god or spell can protect you against something that won't even exist in your world for thousands of years.

To presume infinite health is insane, so by your measure the DB can soak hundreds of millions of IMPs from Flash and millions of Omega Beam blasts and millions of everything else. According to you he is a god amongst gods, unkillable by any physical force. That is nonsense, I gave you one million health which is more than fair considering 99.999% of players won't even hit 500.

There is no way the courier doesn't win this. He could just pull a fatman out and nuke him, or snipe him from a mile away, or vaporize him with a lazer rifle, or melt him with a plazas gun, or drop a warhead on him (there are hundreds of warheads in the divide that he could use).

Sorry guys but the dwemer have shown that science defeats magic any day.

@jmarshmallow: If courier decides to build a liberty prime from the blueprints then it's pretty much GG right there. Seriously liberty Prime is solo overkill and would easily slaughter any dragon in Skyrim. He'll I'd say that liberty prime could one v one the dragon born and win! Poisons and paralysis won't work on LP, nor will fus ro dah or really any shouts, and the illusion magics will never alter his mind because he is mechanical. Also destruction magic wouldn't put a scratch on LP.

@reikai: Level 5 radiation means instant death, regardless of HP.

The Dwemer all died. Because they depended on science rather than magic.

What's to stop the Dovahkiin from using Agent of Subterfuge or a Calm spell to stop the fight before it even begins? If anyone has a faster reaction speed, its the Dragonborn. And add in several Invisibility Potions to the equation....

People hsould not use gameplay mechanics for this battle. LORe is much better.

The only advantage the courier has here is his fire weapons, because the Dovahkiin do have incredible powerfl magic and shouts.

I would give this to the dovahkiin easily.

@frocharocha: You can't use Lore for 3 reasons:

1. One character has no notable lore.

2. The DB's Lore is utter nonsense and gross exaggeration. How many mountains and continents did you bust in-game? We use feats, not hearsay and tall tales. Ask Batman mook villains and they'll tell you he is a 300 foot tall monster who breathes fire but we wouldn't count that just because Mook #3 wrote a book saying it.

3. It is unnecessary, they share the same gameplay. It is effortless to compare.

@xlr87t3: And a Graybeard uttering a single word is insta-death for anyone. At least anyone without the proper teaching/power to survive it. Radiation is nothing to a guy who breathes radioactive mouth lasers. =P

Dovahkiin.

Dovahkiin

I love New Vegas way more than I like Skyrim but a near full-potential Dragonborn would stomp. I could only maybe see Courier having a chance in round 2 where he has home turf and better knowledge and influence on the land but even then he would probably still lose unless he has extensive knowledge on the Dragonborn which he doesn't have here.

Uhh this is a tough for me to say. While DB is innately FAR more powerful, the C6 just has so much means of getting the drop on the Dovahkiin and eliminating him. A .50 Caliber Rifle and a concealed, vantage point is really all the Courier needs. I believe that Dovahkiin would massacre at close range combat, while the Courier just dominates at long range due to the versatility of his arsenal and tactics he/she can employ. Medium ranged conflict is a tossup imo.

Chosen One comes in and beat both ;)

@m_man:

You say that but what you are forgetting is the amazing amount of luck the courier has

There's a good chance he could kill the Dova by accident with that luck alone

But combine it with all his perks, the mysterious stranger

His ability to go invisible the fact all animals fight on his side

He has so many perks, and proficient on all firearms/close combat weapons

and let's not forget what the other special points give him most are kind of jokey, but the message behind is clear, for strengh he's described as "Hercules Bigger Cousin", perception as an "Eagle with a Telescope", endurance as simply "Unstoppable" charisma as a "Cult Leader" for intelligence "Omniscient"and agility "walks on water"

This may not sound like much but it means he will more or less see him immediately, react instantly and since his weapons are faster find the Dova isnt a bullet timer / bullet proof he'd die instantly, and again let's not forget his luck

To be honest this is a stomp in the couriers favour

If it was the canon courier vs the canon Dova, then the Dova would win but due to the reaction times of the Courier extreme proficiency with a gun, and utterly unmatched sight hearing etc I don't see Dova standing a chance

This battle is completely pointless. It's impossible to compare two universes, each with their own crazy set of rules that are only relative to eachother in a head on fight.

That being said, The Courier wins because New Vegas is a much better game

@thetruthiii:

I know they Dova means dragon it's just quicker, abd quite frankly if you know what I mean who cares

second his armour tanking those things are game mechanics you can't have game mechanics and lore that's plain stupid

You get one or the other, either you get to use the gane mechanics, in which case the courier hits the Dova 100% of the time, far faster than the Dova at a far further range, he also gets to pause combat as he picks which part he hits, not to mention critical hits and the mysterious stranger ergo he kills him before he knows he's in a fight

Or they fight without game mechanics in which case the courier kills the Dova with a single bullet/fatman since the Dova has never shown to be bulletproof in lore, his armour isn't built for bullet protection, and his only weapon of use is unrelenting force which is useless if he's not pointing in the couriers direction, and hadn't been shown to travel at bullet speed

Also it could be argued that the dragon's are animals so they are of no use here in both scenarios

And again the become ethereal shout ie utterly useless In both scenarios, in the none game mechanic scenario he'd have to start with it for him not to look like a human pincushion

And in the game mechanic scenario it's just a waiting game

Also you bring up the "getting the animals to fight for him"

They can't fight for the Dragonborn against the courier because it clearly says he has all the perks which means both animal friend ones as in no animal can attack the courier unless he hits them first

You can't just say the Dovakiins one overpowers his because it'd utterly retarded

Further more the couriers perk is instantaneous giving him priority the best Dova could do is stop them attacking himself

Next point the courier has grenades, laser guns, gatling guns, mini f*ck!ng nukes, all of which the Dova (yeah Dova) has no defence other than the become ethereal shout

The Courier in the gane mechanic scenario is essentially the Dova on steroids, he doesn't have shouts but he doesn't need them, hes better in every other way, with his better weapons to his better armour

And again with game mechanics he can't miss the Dova can, and based on the Dovas weak sauce ranged attacks he's less of a combatant and more of a walking pincushion

Also with game mechanics the Dragon's are beyond pathetic, let's say they do attack him and don't count as animals, all of them would be destroyed by a maxed Courier anyway, due to vats he doesn't need dragonrend to make them his b!tch

And again when it comes to lore show me scans of the Dova taking a bunch of arrows to the head, because from my understanding the Dova in lore is just a man who had some cool powers

If a thieves guild members arrow can go through his armour (which they can) if you play the thieves guild mission in any armour he still gets poisoned and practically killed by one nightingale then a bullet can get through his armour and kill him

Also slight add on the assassins guild captured him while asleep ergo Mr sandman perk allows the courier to kill him pretty easily both scenarios

Just noticed the essential companion bit, lame argument but also easily countered in the lore he's killable and in the gane mechanics fight so long as the the courier is on a lower difficulty his companions can't die either, also in the game mechanics fight they are easily knocked out anyway, and shadomeres an animal thr courier can't be attacked by those

The Courier brings Boon and stomps automatically. Ok, not really, but I think this is a great representation of magic vs tech. Personally, I think the Courier has a slight advantage, due to sniper rifles having a better range than arrows/detect life, and I'll throw in with the Courier just because. I think this video represents it well, though.

Thanks for introducing me to Escapists!

I found out that level 5 radiation is exactly -10,000 health in Fallout 3. The maximum heath possible in Fallout 3 is 695, which is why the radiation instant kills you without a radiation suit.

@xlr87t3: Dovahkiin resistances diminish that by 97%, making it only 300dmg. And without the limit cap in Skyrim, the Dovahkiin can have well over 1000HP. And that was when balancing all 3 stats at 1000 each. Stamina and Magica don't ever really need to be that high.

However upping stamina increases carrying capacity, ie his physical strength. Dovahkiin starts able to carry around 100lbs. That 1000stam bumps it to 1100lbs, and Pickpocket perks increase that by another 100lbs. This was all only assuming the Dovahkiin stopped leveling once all skill trees had been completely filled. There's no stopping the leveling process if you just reset skills and kept leveling them all to 100 over and over again.

Dovahkiin could readily have more than 6000 points, whereas the Courier is capped.. Ultimately the Dovahkiin is going to do more damage and has much better recovery. With indefinite Ethereal status, there really isn't anything the Courier could do beside waste ammo.

Isn't post OWB Courier immune to all poisons and other status effects?

Dovahkiin

Been done before

DB has too many options. He wins.