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#1 Posted by Mad-dog (36 posts) - - Show Bio

Combatants (ALL LEGENDS FEATS)

Round 1: Force Only

Round 2: All-out

Dark Council

Valkorion

Darth Marr

Darth Mortis

Darth Jadus

Darth Ravage

Darth Nox (With Ghosts)

Darth Acina

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Jedi Council

Yoda

Mace Windu

Obi-Wan Kenobi

Shaak Ti

Plo Koon

Anakin Skywalker

Kit Fisto

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#2 Posted by Richard96 (5573 posts) - - Show Bio

Jedi win. Morris, Ravage, Acina are featless chumps and Jadus is fodder.

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#3 Posted by xolthol (868 posts) - - Show Bio

To many sith concillors are fodders... Jedi win

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#4 Posted by KeenCraft (714 posts) - - Show Bio

Anakin and Yoda possibly (duo)solo

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#5 Posted by Vitisid (1199 posts) - - Show Bio

Anakin and Yoda possibly (duo)solo

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#6 Posted by ArkhamAsylum3 (2855 posts) - - Show Bio

@vitisid: But Valkurion solos hee dis mi favortie sar wras characture.

OT-Half the Sith Council are either fodder or featless. Jedi stomp.

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#7 Posted by dark-sith123 (4826 posts) - - Show Bio

Pretty confident Yoda and Anakin could solo assuming peak KF Vader for Skywalker.

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#8 Posted by Vitisid (1199 posts) - - Show Bio

@vitisid: But Valkurion solos hee dis mi favortie sar wras characture.

OT-Half the Sith Council are either fodder or featless. Jedi stomp.

đź‘Ť

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#9 Edited by Discipulus (455 posts) - - Show Bio

So long as the Jedi prioritise smartly, they're winning this. Probably with casualties, but I don't think Yoda, Mace or Anakin have much to worry about.

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#10 Posted by WollfMyth209 (15910 posts) - - Show Bio

Yoda handles Valkorion while Anakin+any other Jedi walks around slaughtering the Dark Council.

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#11 Posted by BreakOfDawn (1176 posts) - - Show Bio

Yoda, Mace and Anakin are enough to take the entire team comfortably. Adding the rest just makes this a stomp. The trio are able to hold their own against Valkorian (and defeat him in Yoda's case) while the others handle the fodder.

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#12 Edited by KeenCraft (714 posts) - - Show Bio

The only way the Jedi might lose is if Yoda and Anakin have immediate heart attacks.

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#13 Posted by i_like_swords (26162 posts) - - Show Bio

Valpoorion succeeds with a solar system busting telekinetic wave. Not even shitposting.

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#14 Edited by Dawn_of_Ages (2318 posts) - - Show Bio

Valpoorion succeeds with a solar system busting telekinetic wave.

wait what

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#15 Posted by i_like_swords (26162 posts) - - Show Bio

@i_like_swords said:

Valpoorion succeeds with a solar system busting telekinetic wave.

wait what

Take Darth Bane's telekinetic power and juxtapose it with his death wave power. Bane can only kill a few non-Force sensitives with his death wave before he is utterly exhausted, compared to his telekinesis which can bring down massive structures without breaking as much of a sweat, or can be used to kill powerful Force sensitives. Much like how people's TK tends to be more environmentally destructive than their lightning, the same is true of death wave.

On Ziost, when Vitiate was a weakened spirit, to regain his strength he went around draining non-Force users. He maybe had drained a few thousand at best before he regained enough strength to perform the Ziost death wave. The intent of the Ziost death wave was to kill all life on the planet so that Vitiate could, like before, absorb their energy.

If a few thousand schlubs is all the energy that is needed for Vitiate to produce a death wave which 1. shook a base in space, 2. knocked the electromagnetic field of the planet out of tilt, 3. created fissures through the earths core 4. destroyed nearly every structure on the surface of the planet, 5. forced every Force user present from the Republic/Empire to leave or risk death and 6. carry out a display of the dark side more extreme than anything we had seen prior, which includes Nathema, the Ambria sorceress, Naga Sadow and Aleema Keto's solarflare/novas, Nihilus and also Bane's thought bomb (which is a toned down version of Nathema)..... then imagine what kind of death wave Vitiate can produce after eating all life on a planet.

Not only would his power have massively, exponentially increased after eating the planet (which should let him replicate Ziost billions of times over easily), but by the mere fact that death wave produces massively, exponentially less environmental damage than telekinesis, it means that Vitiate's telekinesis is many, many times more powerful than even a death wave that is a million times more powerful than the one we saw on Ziost.

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#16 Posted by LordOfTheLight (2552 posts) - - Show Bio

@i_like_swords

bring down massive structures without breaking as much of a sweat

It is clearly stated that he was utterly drained due to that force wave that broke the base walls of the temple. That and it was pre charged.

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#17 Edited by i_like_swords (26162 posts) - - Show Bio

@lordofthelight said:

@i_like_swords

bring down massive structures without breaking as much of a sweat

It is clearly stated that he was utterly drained due to that force wave that broke the base walls of the temple. That and it was pre charged.

He was also vastly before his prime and has other feats/lines of scaling. I was illustrating the point that relatively speaking telekinesis does more environmental damage than a death wave. A more simple example is him disintegrating technobeasts with TK.

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#18 Edited by LordOfTheLight (2552 posts) - - Show Bio

@i_like_swords said:
@lordofthelight said:

@i_like_swords

bring down massive structures without breaking as much of a sweat

It is clearly stated that he was utterly drained due to that force wave that broke the base walls of the temple. That and it was pre charged.

He was also vastly before his prime and has other feats/lines of scaling. I was illustrating the point that relatively speaking telekinesis does more environmental damage than a death wave. A more simple example is him disintegrating technobeasts with TK.

That may be ok, but you can cook up an argument for Kit Fisto being multi solar system busting level so in any case, Vitiate loses here.

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#19 Posted by i_like_swords (26162 posts) - - Show Bio

@lordofthelight: What did Fisto do to make you think he can destroy multiple solar systems?

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#20 Edited by LordOfTheLight (2552 posts) - - Show Bio

@i_like_swords said:

@lordofthelight: What did Fisto do to make you think he can destroy multiple solar systems?

Lmao at me actually thinking that.

Scaling gets us there.

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#21 Posted by i_like_swords (26162 posts) - - Show Bio
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#22 Edited by polyfarlino (7 posts) - - Show Bio

@i_like_swords said:
@dawn_of_ages said:
@i_like_swords said:

Valpoorion succeeds with a solar system busting telekinetic wave.

wait what

Take Darth Bane's telekinetic power and juxtapose it with his death wave power. Bane can only kill a few non-Force sensitives with his death wave before he is utterly exhausted, compared to his telekinesis which can bring down massive structures without breaking as much of a sweat, or can be used to kill powerful Force sensitives. Much like how people's TK tends to be more environmentally destructive than their lightning, the same is true of death wave.

On Ziost, when Vitiate was a weakened spirit, to regain his strength he went around draining non-Force users. He maybe had drained a few thousand at best before he regained enough strength to perform the Ziost death wave. TorrentTurboTaxGogoanime The intent of the Ziost death wave was to kill all life on the planet so that Vitiate could, like before, absorb their energy.

If a few thousand schlubs is all the energy that is needed for Vitiate to produce a death wave which 1. shook a base in space, 2. knocked the electromagnetic field of the planet out of tilt, 3. created fissures through the earths core 4. destroyed nearly every structure on the surface of the planet, 5. forced every Force user present from the Republic/Empire to leave or risk death and 6. carry out a display of the dark side more extreme than anything we had seen prior, which includes Nathema, the Ambria sorceress, Naga Sadow and Aleema Keto's solarflare/novas, Nihilus and also Bane's thought bomb (which is a toned down version of Nathema)..... then imagine what kind of death wave Vitiate can produce after eating all life on a planet.

Not only would his power have massively, exponentially increased after eating the planet (which should let him replicate Ziost billions of times over easily), but by the mere fact that death wave produces massively, exponentially less environmental damage than telekinesis, it means that Vitiate's telekinesis is many, many times more powerful than even a death wave that is a million times more powerful than the one we saw on Ziost.

It is plainly expressed that he was totally depleted because of that power wave that broke the base dividers of the sanctuary. That and it was pre charged.

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#23 Posted by AotD (612 posts) - - Show Bio

Jedi stomps.

if Valkorion would be really that powerful as he described only then it will be close match but even then jedi will be winner.

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#24 Posted by Bayman007 (1134 posts) - - Show Bio

The Jedi win

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#25 Edited by LordOfTheLight (2552 posts) - - Show Bio

@i_like_swords said:

@lordofthelight: What scaling?

We know Kit is meant to be solidly above Agen in ROTS. That much is clearly depicted in their fight and there is no need to even debate on it.

So Kit>>>>Agen

We know Agen clearly stomped Quinlan Vos in their duel, while holding back and in the most casual way possible.

So, Agen>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Clone Wars Vos

Now this is Vos well into the clone wars where he would obviously be much superior to Vos at that start of the war. Now Vos much before AoTC( around 7 years) dueled and beat Volfe Karkko when his mind was uncluttered and unconflicted( made possible by two other Jedi joining his mind and taking out his inhibitions). A conflicted Vos was losing soundly to Karkko but was still managing to loosely contend or at least, not get stomped.

Obviously the gap between the Vos that dueled Agen and the Vos that beat Karkko would be massive. At least going by the huge time difference there.

Clone Wars Vos>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Unhindered Vos that beat Karkko>>>>Karkko>>>>>>>>Turbulent Mind Vos

Now let us come to Karkko. It is well known that he was almost equal to the entire Jedi Council of 1000 BBY( in the time of Bane) and engaged them in a massive battle where many Council Members were destroyed by him.

Karkko=<Jedi Council of 1000 BBY

Obviously the Jedi Council is meant to represent the best Jedi in the order, most powerful and most skilled. Barring some massive exceptions, generally, they are going to be more powerful than almost anybody else in the entire Order there.

So we have Worror Dowmat being powerful enough to completely deflect Bane's lightning while mortally wounded( meaning he'd do much better if he were okay) and this guy has a reputation for being a person whose primary focus and reputation and area of expertise lies in battle meditation, not raw displays of the force. In a sense, by his feat, we can easily conclude that Dowmat is at least as powerful as Bane( though why he didn't overpower Bane when he fought lies in mystery, maybe due to Jedi morals or maybe his battle meditation would be more useful since he would be completely useless with a lightsaber).

In terms of sheer power

Dowmat>Bane( the gap is ambiguous)

Now, there is no outright link between Dowmat and the Jedi Council here, but the entire point of Dowmat's character was to be good in battle meditation and more subtle displays of the force, not sheer power and it would be a pretty logical assumption to assume that there would be at least one Jedi in the Council who would be more powerful than him and even if we assume that he was the most powerful Jedi alive, there is really no precedent for putting him anywhere near the collective might of the entire Jedi Council

Jedi Council of 1000 BBY>>>>Dowmat( being generous to him)

In any case, the Jedi Council of 1000 BBY is solidly above Bane, which was made rather clear in ROT.

Now, as per Az's scaling, Bane is above the supernova explosion of Naga Sadow when vastly pre prime and thus, given that Kit scales massively above Bane, he is capable of busting several solar systems casually.

Obviously I treat the whole thing as a joke, but Kit scaling much above the Jedi Council of 1000 BBY might be legit

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#26 Posted by i_like_swords (26162 posts) - - Show Bio

@lordofthelight: The most impressive part of what you just said is the fact it made brain cells drip out of my ear.

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#27 Posted by LordOfTheLight (2552 posts) - - Show Bio

@lordofthelight: The most impressive part of what you just said is the fact it made brain cells drip out of my ear.

I aim to please.

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#28 Edited by i_like_swords (26162 posts) - - Show Bio

@lordofthelight: So Bane requires all of his energy to knock down a building but is simultaneously supernova level?

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#29 Posted by LordOfTheLight (2552 posts) - - Show Bio

@lordofthelight: So Bane requires all of his energy to knock down a building but is simultaneously supernova level?

Raw power doesn't translate to telekinesis in all cases lol. Bane's raw power is supernova level but his tk is only building level.

Much like Valkorion's raw power puts him trillions of times more powerful than a planet destroying death wave but he then almost gets crapped on by the spirit of a fodder Sith Lord when it comes to actual tk offense and defense.

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#30 Edited by Azronger (4300 posts) - - Show Bio

@i_like_swords: @lordofthelight: Neither of you have understood Fisto's real power. What LotL showed was but a mere appetizer.

Let's start with Count Dooku. In the RotS novel he makes himself the axis of the universe. In essence, he is rotating all of existence, including the trillions of galaxies, around himself telekinetically. This feat would obviously require ineffably more kinetic energy than Valpoorion snuffing out mere solar systems.

He called upon the Force, gathering it to himself and wrapping himself within it. He breathed it in and held it whirling inside his heart, clenching down upon it until he could feel the spin of the galaxy around him.

Until he became the axis of the universe. This was the real power of the dark side, the power he had suspected even as a boy, had sought through his long life until Darth Sidious had shown him that it had been his all along. The dark side didn't bring him to the center of the universe. It made him the center.

He drew power into his innermost being until the Force itself existed only to serve his will.

Going by ILS' theory that mastery in death field correlates with power in telekinesis, Dooku would be able to perform a death field on a universal scale. And since merely by drawing the life from a single city enabled Valpoorion to do a planetary death field, you can imagine how much power Dooku drawing life from the entire universe would grant him. Doing the math - dividing the surface area of the earth (510 000 000 square km) by the surface area of the largest city on earth (8 683 square km) - it would appear this feat would enable Dooku to cast a death field around 58 747 times larger than the one could cast prior. And since death field correlates with telekinesis, Dooku would also be able to sweep away over 58 thousand universes in a similar vein to how Bane leveled his temple. And when he channels all that power into hurling a table, that flying table would similarly have the power to cause multiversal havoc, yet Anakin Skywalker smashes it aside with a punch.

When with all the power that the dark side can draw from throughout the universe, Dooku hurls a jagged fragment of the durasteel table, Shmi Skywalker's gentle murmur I knew you would come for me, Anakin smashes it aside.

Moving onto Obi-Wan Kenobi now, in the same book, he contends evenly with an even more powerful Anakin, matching his multiverse-busting saber swings blow-for-blow, and countering his telekinetic blasts. Many auxiliary sources likewise iterate the two were evenly matched.

Obi-Wan backflipped from the conduit to a coupling nexus of the main collection plant; when Anakin flew in pursuit, Obi-Wan leapt again. They spun and whirled throughout its levels, up its stairs, and across its platforms; they battled out onto the collection panels over which the cascades of lava poured, and Obi-Wan, out on the edge of the collection panel, hunching under a curve of durasteel that splashed aside gouts of lava, deflecting Force blasts and countering strikes from this creature of rage that had been his best friend, suddenly comprehended an unexpectedly profound truth.

Yet in the same novel, Obi-Wan concludes defeating three MagnaGuards are far beyond his ability, and he has to resort to cheap shots to beat them.

Three MagnaGuards, each with a double-ended weapon that generated an energy field impervious to lightsabers, each with reflexes that operated near lightspeed, each with hypersophisticated heuristic combat algorithms that enabled it to learn from experience and adapt its tactics instantly to any situation, were certainly beyond Obi-Wan's ability to defeat, but it was not Obi-Wan who would defeat them; Obi-Wan wasn't even fighting. He was only a vessel, emptied of self. The Force, shaped by his skill and guided by his clarity of mind, fought through him.

In the Force, he felt their destruction: it was somewhere above and behind him, and only seconds away.

He went to meet it with a backflipping leap that the Force used to lift him neatly to an empty droid socket in the ceiling hive. The MagnaGuards sprang after him but he was gone by the time they arrived, leaping higher into the maze of girders and cables and room-sized cargo containers that was the control center's superstructure.

Here, said the Force within him, and Obi-Wan stopped, balancing on a girder, frowning back at the oncoming killer droids that leapt from beam to beam below him like malevolent durasteel primates. Though he could feel its close approach, he had no idea from where their destruction might come . . . until the Force showed him a support beam within reach of his blade and whispered, Now.

His blade flicked out and the durasteel beam parted, fresh-cut edges glowing white hot, and a great hulk of ship-sized cargo container that the beam had been supporting tore free of its other supports with shrieks of anguished metal and crashed down upon all three MagnaGuards with the finality of a meteor strike.

Two, three, and four.

Oh, thought Obi-Wan with detached approval. That worked out rather well.

And finally we are at Kit Fisto. Unlike Obi-Wan, Fisto rather handily bests a pair MagnaGuards on his own in Labyrinth of Evil, proving his superior Force augmentation to Kenobi. While Kenobi faced three and Fisto two, the latter was moving so fast the MagnaGuards weren't even able to hit Fisto, and he effortlessly removed their limbs. Essentially, it was a speedblitz. Since Force augmentation stems from overall Force reserves, we can likely say that Fisto's superiority to Kenobi in speed translates to telekinesis, meaning his could wipe out far more universes than merely 58 thousand.

To the rear of the car, where Grievous's pair of MagnaGuards had made the mistake of pitting themselves against Kit Fisto, the Nautolan's blade was a cyclone of blazing blue light. Resistant to the energy outpourings of a lightsaber, the phrik alloy staffs were potent weapons, but like any weapon they needed to find their target, and Kit simply wasn't allowing that.

In moves a Twi'lek dancer might envy, he spun around the guards, claiming a limb from both with each rotation: left legs, right arms, right legs... The speed of the train saw to the rest, ultimately whisking the droids into the canyon like insects blown from the windscreen of a speeder bike.

So lowballing Kit Fisto, he could obliterate 58 747 universes, but in reality the number is probably much higher than that. Regardless, Valpoorion is outgunned in this fight.

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#31 Posted by xolthol (868 posts) - - Show Bio

@azronger: are you serious when claiming that Dooku was able to moove the whole universe ?

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#32 Edited by DarthAnt66 (2522 posts) - - Show Bio

@lordofthelight: Was that just a shitpost, or should I actually respond to that as if you're serious?

But, just to point out regardless, the Jedi Council that Karkko fought was definitely notBane-era.

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#33 Posted by LordOfTheLight (2552 posts) - - Show Bio

@lordofthelight: Was that just a shitpost, or should I actually respond to that as if you're serious?

But, just to point out regardless, the Jedi Council that Karkko fought was definitely notBane-era.

Lmao, nice try

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#34 Edited by DarthAnt66 (2522 posts) - - Show Bio

@lordofthelight said:
@darthant66 said:

@lordofthelight: Was that just a shitpost, or should I actually respond to that as if you're serious?

But, just to point out regardless, the Jedi Council that Karkko fought was definitely notBane-era.

Lmao, nice try

??? What? How's me asking if you're trolling and clarifying Karkko "nice try?"

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#35 Posted by LordOfTheLight (2552 posts) - - Show Bio

@lordofthelight said:
@darthant66 said:

@lordofthelight: Was that just a shitpost, or should I actually respond to that as if you're serious?

But, just to point out regardless, the Jedi Council that Karkko fought was definitely notBane-era.

Lmao, nice try

??? What?

The pretense that that was actually a genuine question. Like, obviously I believe that Kit can obliterate multiple solar systems at once.

Why was the Jedi Council not Bane era though? It was stated to be 1000 years ago.

And yeah, give the quote for Kenobi tapping more deeply into the force than before against Anakin

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#36 Edited by DarthAnt66 (2522 posts) - - Show Bio

@lordofthelight: You haven’t exactly established a reputation of being a logical thinker, lmao. Given your other arguments, the Fisto one isn’t that outlandish.

Regardless, it’s said he lived *over* a thousand years ago, and that he was regarded as one of the first Sith Lords ever. Obviously a Sith active during the tail-end of the Sith wouldn’t classify under such. He likely lived pre-Kun.

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#37 Posted by dark-sith123 (4826 posts) - - Show Bio

Does the TOR crew actually think this is serious

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#38 Posted by Helloman (27121 posts) - - Show Bio

The Jedi win.

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#40 Posted by LordOfTheLight (2552 posts) - - Show Bio

@lordofthelight: You haven’t exactly established a reputation of being a logical thinker, lmao. Given your other arguments, the Fisto one isn’t that outlandish.

Regardless, it’s said he lived *over* a thousand years ago, and that he was regarded as one of the first Sith Lords ever. Obviously a Sith active during the tail-end of the Sith wouldn’t classify under such. He likely lived pre-Kun.

Link me to those absurd arguments

He may have "lived" over a thousand years ago, but he fought the Jedi Council and was imprisoned only for a millenium.

Also, why do you keep ignoring my request for the source? In case you don't have it, just say so. I even sent you a PM on KMC

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#41 Posted by DarthAnt66 (2522 posts) - - Show Bio

@darthant66 said:

@lordofthelight: You haven’t exactly established a reputation of being a logical thinker, lmao. Given your other arguments, the Fisto one isn’t that outlandish.

Regardless, it’s said he lived *over* a thousand years ago, and that he was regarded as one of the first Sith Lords ever. Obviously a Sith active during the tail-end of the Sith wouldn’t classify under such. He likely lived pre-Kun.

Link me to those absurd arguments

He may have "lived" over a thousand years ago, but he fought the Jedi Council and was imprisoned only for a millenium.

Also, why do you keep ignoring my request for the source? In case you don't have it, just say so. I even sent you a PM on KMC

I'm afraid I haven't kept a file of everything you've said, although I can start one moving forward.

I doubt millennia's meant to be taken exactly. Regardless, the text just states "members of the Council" went to fight Karkko, not necessarily the whole Council, with the panel itself only showing four Jedi. There's no indication how many went, nor the difficulty the Council overall had against Karrko. It's easily possible that Karkko killed one and then was quickly overwhelmed by the rest, for instance.

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#42 Posted by i_like_swords (26162 posts) - - Show Bio

Vos isn't even better than cucko

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#43 Edited by LordOfTheLight (2552 posts) - - Show Bio
@darthant66 said:
@lordofthelight said:
@darthant66 said:

@lordofthelight: You haven’t exactly established a reputation of being a logical thinker, lmao. Given your other arguments, the Fisto one isn’t that outlandish.

Regardless, it’s said he lived *over* a thousand years ago, and that he was regarded as one of the first Sith Lords ever. Obviously a Sith active during the tail-end of the Sith wouldn’t classify under such. He likely lived pre-Kun.

Link me to those absurd arguments

He may have "lived" over a thousand years ago, but he fought the Jedi Council and was imprisoned only for a millenium.

Also, why do you keep ignoring my request for the source? In case you don't have it, just say so. I even sent you a PM on KMC

I'm afraid I haven't kept a file of everything you've said, although I can start one moving forward.

I doubt millennia's meant to be taken exactly. Regardless, the text just states "members of the Council" went to fight Karkko, not necessarily the whole Council, with the panel itself only showing four Jedi. There's no indication how many went, nor the difficulty the Council overall had against Karrko. It's easily possible that Karkko killed one and then was quickly overwhelmed by the rest, for instance.

It says that it was exactly a millenium. That was when the duel occurred. It is also stated that the duel occurred centuries before the Clone Wars which supplements that quote. Highly doubt that the duel took place before Bane's time.

That's a pretty neat excuse but actually, it is also stated that "the council prevailed", which obviously would refer to the whole Council. That aside, there are other quotes that state that "the Council was forced to trap Karkko in stasis on Kiffex". Suggesting now that it still may not refer to the entire Council collectively would be rather pointless here.

Yeah, and I suppose "Ah, Great the battle was and strong was Karkko, but in the end the Council prevailed", possibly means that the Council was able to easily beat Karkko, instead of the obvious meaning that it was meant to be a massive battle, very hard fought where the Council only prevailed after a grueling duel and after taking casualties too.

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#44 Edited by DarthAnt66 (2522 posts) - - Show Bio

@lordofthelight

That's a pretty neat excuse but actually, it is also stated that "the council prevailed", which obviously would refer to the whole Council.

Why would it "obviously refer to the whole Council?" If members of the Council went, then yes, "the Council prevailed." That doesn't mean every single member of the Council went. Many sources, for instance, refer to Sidious vs Mace and B-Team as "Sidious vs the Jedi Council," even though there were only four Jedi Council members present.

That aside, there are other quotes that state that "the Council was forced to trap Karkko in stasis on Kiffex". Suggesting now that it still may not refer to the entire Council collectively would be rather pointless here.

Same idea.

Yeah, and I suppose "Ah, Great the battle was and strong was Karkko, but in the end the Council prevailed", possibly means that the Council was able to easily beat Karkko, instead of the obvious meaning that it was meant to be a massive battle, very hard fought where the Council only prevailed after a grueling duel and after taking casualties too.

"A great battle" isn't synonymous with "a grueling duel," lmao. The fact Karkko fought members of the Council and killed one easily constitutes as "a great battle." Nothing here even indicates Karkko was stronger than everyone present individually, as SF Bastila Shan easily discarded Bindo and Juhani before being stomped by Revan.