The Dark Council vs Clone Wars Jedi Council

Darth Baras vs Shaak Ti

Darth Marr vs Obi-Wan

Darth Mortis vs Agen Kolar

Darth Thanaton vs Plo Koon

Darth Mekhis vs Kit Fisto

Darth Acharon vs Saesee Tin

Darth Ravage vs Stass Allie

Darth Jadus vs Mace Windu

Valkorion vs Yoda

The CW Jedi stomp, lol.

Darth Baras vs Shaak Ti

Baras sweeps.

Darth Marr vs Obi-Wan

Potentially Marr though it's really too close to call imo.

Darth Mortis vs Agen Kolar

Kolar ragdolls.

Darth Thanaton vs Plo Koon

Koon ragdolls.

Darth Mekhis vs Kit Fisto

Fisto ragdolls.

Darth Acharon vs Saesee Tin

Tiin ragdolls.

Darth Ravage vs Stass Allie

Split. Don't remember anything impressive from either.

Darth Jadus vs Mace Windu

Depends on how you view Jadus's statements placing him as the best in the empire.

Valkorion vs Yoda

Valkorion.

Ultimately with so many one sided match ups in favour of team 1 I'd say it really comes down to how quickly Valk can kill Yoda. Ultimately I think he might be able to pull if off quickly enough to secure his team the win but I'm uncertain.

The CW Jedi win every single match-up in a clean sweep

The Jedi win.

Darth Baras vs Shaak Ti

Darth Marr vs Obi-Wan

Darth Mortis vs Agen Kolar

Darth Thanaton vs Plo Koon

Darth Mekhis vs Kit Fisto

Darth Acharon vs Saesee Tin

Darth Ravage vs Stass Allie

Darth Jadus vs Mace Windu

Valkorion vs Yoda

1. Either way. Likely Shaak Ti

2. Obi Wan one-shots him. I don't see a case being made for Marr lasting more than 10 seconds unless Jedi morals come into play or one is stretching beyond belief for him.

3. 4. 5. 6. 7. Jedi one-shot

8. No clue

9. Mace one-shots him.

10. Yoda in a great fight. If sabers are involved, he stomps

Overall, Jedi Council stomps them so hard the Ancient Sith spirits all go into chaos at the utter shame at how their legacy gets humiliated that too by their hated enemy

@lordofthelight: Kenobi one shotting a guy who scales massively above mind dominating hundreds of Jedi simultaneously is pretty funny ngl.

In addition though he wins Mace isn't one shotting Jadus.

Oh yeah and Valk>>>Yoda.

Really?

PoD Bane is "far" more powerful than Kaan, someone mind dominating "thousands of Sith" simultaneously. DoE Bane is infinitely more powerful than PoD Bane. TPM Maul is more powerful than DoE Bane at least( you can just refer to ILS's arguments), and as per Shadow Conspiracy, Maul when he returned is more powerful than he was in TPM( note that the statement from the comic is retconned) there. Then by S5, he is you see, much more powerful than he was in S4 by Savage Opress himself. TCW Kenobi is equal to that version of Maul, and ROTS Kenobi is significantly stronger( continues to grow more powerful across ROTS) than even him.

ROTS Kenobi>TCW Kenobi=S5 Maul>>>>S4 Maul>TPM Maul>DoE Bane>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>PoD Bane>>>>>>>>Kaan=literally mind dominating thousands of Sith

This is just the tip of the iceberg.

So, if anything, arguing that Marr doesn't get one-shot is the notion that is funny. It is straight up hilarious if I am being honest.

Yeah, he is lol. The guy has more statements saying he is on par with Yoda than any other assertion in the mythos( around two dozen), and again, saying Yoda is not going to one-shot Jadus too is funny.

Valk>>>Yoda.

Nope

@jacensolo77:

I'll take it from here leave this to me.

@lordofthelight:

I'll make an extensive argument in favour of Marr later if I can be bothered.

Darth Baras vs Shaak Ti

If it's amped (the one who fought the Emperor's Wrath) Baras, he stomps.

Darth Marr vs Obi-Wan

Kenobi in a good fight if sabers, Marr if Force.

Darth Mortis vs Agen Kolar

Not sure. Leaning towards Kolar.

Darth Thanaton vs Plo Koon

Thanaton if he uses all of his more esoteric abilities.

Darth Mekhis vs Kit Fisto

No idea who this is.

Darth Acharon vs Saesee Tin

See above.

Darth Ravage vs Stass Allie

Allie.

Darth Jadus vs Mace Windu

Mace beats him in a decent fight at best then plays pinball with him.

Valkorion vs Yoda

Yoda in a good to great fight.

@jacensolo77Oh yeah and Valk>>>Yoda.

...What? I can kind of understand Mace not one-shotting Jadus (though he definitely stomps) based on scaling, but what puts Valkorian far above Yoda?

It is unlikely considering your other engagements but I'll look forward to it

Darth Baras vs Shaak Ti: Baras (easily)

Darth Marr vs Obi-Wan: Marr (hard fight)

Darth Mortis vs Agen Kolar: Kolar (not so hard)

Darth Thanaton vs Plo Koon: Thanaton (not so close)

Darth Mekhis vs Kit Fisto: Fisto (stomp)

Darth Acharon vs Saesee Tin: Tiin (easily)

Darth Ravage vs Stass Allie: Ravage (hard fight)

Darth Jadus vs Mace Windu: Windu (hard fight)

Valkorion vs Yoda: Valkorion (close fight)

At the end of the day the Dark Council win because of guys like Marr and Baras (the latter is just way too powerful for most of the guy here).

@xolthol:Darth Jadus vs Mace Windu: Windu (hard fight)

Interested in your reasoning for this.

Anyone care to make a case for Marr or is this just another TOR popularity campaign going on?

@breakofdawn: For what Windu winning or hard fight for him ?

@xolthol: The hard fight bit. I can't really think of any feats from Jadus putting him close to Windu's level, even in his (Legends) TCW iteration.

A thread similar to this was done once, and my outlook has barely shifted on the matter. PT fondles.

Darth Baras vs Shaak Ti

Tossup or Baras

Darth Marr vs Obi-Wan

Marr (?) marginally idk

Darth Mortis vs Agen Kolar

Kolar oneshots and Czardas jigs on his body

Darth Thanaton vs Plo Koon

Koon barely

Darth Mekhis vs Kit Fisto

Fisto oneshots and Czardas jigs on her body

Darth Acharon vs Saesee Tin

Tiin oneshots and Czardas jigs on his body

Darth Ravage vs Stass Allie

Both fall on each other's lightsabers

Darth Jadus vs Mace Windu

Jadus if he can keep him back the the Force

Windu handily with a saber

Valkorion vs Yoda

Force: Yoda in an exhausting Force fight

Or

Saber: Valkorion falls on his own lightsaber to escape Yoda's oneshot

(Half of those Sith don't even have feats tbh)

Fisto can't wreck him

Him is a her

Lol

?

?

Dookie's a far bigger loser than Maul, but eh

Darth Baras vs Shaak Ti = Baras Stomps.

Darth Marr vs Obi-Wan = Prime Obi-Wan wins mid-diff, and very tired.

Darth Mortis vs Agen Kolar = Mortis is nigh-featless so I have to give this to Kolar

Darth Thanaton vs Plo Koon = Could go either way but leaning towards Koon

Darth Mekhis vs Kit Fisto = Kit Fisto.

Darth Acharon vs Saesee Tin = I don't know enough about Saesee so I'm defaulting to Acharon

Darth Ravage vs Stass Allie = Darth Ravage probably.

Darth Jadus vs Mace Windu = Tough fight but I think Windu takes the majority because of his ability to grow in the face of Darkness. I.E: Windu was not nearly at Sidious's Level, yet Sidious's energy allowed him to at least compete witht he dark-lord in CC

Valkorion vs Yoda = I would be biased if I said Yoda. If this CC, Yoda wins. If Valkorion has prep, he stomps, and if there is a good starting distance between them, it could go either way.

Depending on Location, I see the Jedi Council coming out on top. If both sides have Prep, then the Sith take it in a near-stomp, and if both sides have full Intel+Prep, Sith take the Majority but not stomp.

Hypothetically, lets say these Sith travel through time and appear in the Jedi Temple while only these Jedi are present, and there are no Moral restrictions, I think Jedi win with Kenobi and Windu being the MVPs.

@breakofdawn: To made this brief because Jadus is called by Valkorion the most powerful Sith of his empire and because of his devastor TK feat. For more accurate argument just go here [post 14 and 24].

@redshift_bacon:Darth Jadus vs Mace Windu = Tough fight but I think Windu takes the majority because of his ability to grow in the face of Darkness. I.E: Windu was not nearly at Sidious's Level, yet Sidious's energy allowed him to at least compete witht he dark-lord in CC

Really wish people would stop saying this when it's not true, it's just people glossing over aspects of the duel.

Just read it, very impressive post. I wasn't aware that Jadus was that powerful. Definitely around TCW Mace level at that point. While I believe even a pre-prime Mace would stomp in sabers and he does win in the Force, it's a pretty close fight.

@breakofdawn: yeah obviously in sheer lightsaber fight Jadus won't stand a chance but in all out the fight still be hard for Windu.

@xolthol: How do you rate Jadus in comparison to the others (amped Darth Baras, act 3 Emperor's Wrath, etc)?

I always thought the older Sith were far more powerful than the current Sith and jedi. At least during this era. Though I must be honest I haven't read any of the books for the time periods that the movies cover only ones from Darth bane's era.

Are the jedi that powerful in the books?

@breakofdawn: at least prime Baras level. So above Marr and all the protags.

@xolthol: Really? I personally wouldn't put him above act 3 HoT, Emperor's Wrath or Darth Nox with the ghosts. Then again, I guess that depends if you view Marr and Satele as > them in act 3.

Marr is above the Act 3 protags. Satele however is not.

Marr>Act 3 HoT>Act 1 HoT>Satele.

@arkhamasylum3: Marr and Satele are equal in force. It was said in KotFE chapter Vision in the Dark. Marr explain that he joined the only one who is his peer/equal.

@breakofdawn: Act 3 protags are above Marr and Satele. By accolades of Marr. But I can understand someone having Jadus below them.

@breakofdawn: I've always thought that Sidious threw the fight with Windu in order to convert Anakin to the Dark Side, I thought that was the general consensus. Like don't get me wrong, Mace Windu with a light saber is no joke, he did disarm Sidious fairly. I just think that Sidious was not expecting to have as much of a challenge, and If he had been using the Dark Side to his advantage from the start, he would've faired much better.

@arkhamasylum3: See KOTFE.

Fair enough. KOTFE gave me the impression that Satele was more powerful than a pre-training Outlander based on her "you could be the strongest of us all, but your old training can't have prepared you for what you'll face."

@redshift_bacon: He definitely pretended to be weak, but he tried to kill Mace multiple times during the duel and was clearly angry enough to try and kill an exhausted Mace with his lightning. It's more a feat for Mace for lasting that long while exhausted before Sidious decided to halt the lightning. Mace has both been stated and shown to at least be able to match Sidious. Sheev is more powerful, but the gap isn't particularly big by the time of their confrontation, though that's assuming that Mace wouldn't have grown even more powerful over time. However, TCW Mace is definitely a step or two down from both of them and the fight between them would be a decisive win for Sidious.

Darth Baras vs Shaak Ti

Depends which Ti. TFU wins.

Darth Marr vs Obi-Wan

Obi. Nice fight.

Darth Mortis vs Agen Kolar

Agen murks.

Darth Thanaton vs Plo Koon

Thanaton.

Darth Mekhis vs Kit Fisto

Fisto murks.

Darth Acharon vs Saesee Tin

Saesee Tiin murks.

Darth Ravage vs Stass Allie

We have no way of knowing.

Darth Jadus vs Mace Windu

Mace.

Valkorion vs Yoda

Yoda.

The Jedi take it, conclusively.

@xolthol: @breakofdawn: Yeah I mean Marr is definitely equal to Satele despite being equal to her even in his weakened spirit from.

Jesus Christ the amount of times this quote gets brought up is lol worthy.

Meanwhile we have an accolade which places Marr above Act 3 Empire's Wrath who is around equal to the HoT based on the fact that the HoT was given a hard fight by Malgus who also lost to Act 3 to The Empire's Wrath. This would place the Empire's Wrath above Act 1 HoT.

To use a rather basic chain:

Marr>EW=HoT>Malgus>Act 1 HoT>Satele=Spirit Marr.

@arkhamasylum3: Clearly not sure that he was talking about himself under his spirit form. Add to this that Satele include her above pre-kotfe-prime outlander

@arkhamasylum3:

Yeah I mean Marr is definitely equal to Satele despite being equal to her even in his weakened spirit from.

Jesus Christ the amount of times this quote gets brought up is lol worthy.

"But only one in all the galaxy was my equal"

That isn't him saying "oh yeah, by the way mate even though only now is Satele my equal who I always treated as an equal for absolutely no reason cos lol screw you." That's him calling her his equal in both status and power.

There's also Satele's own quote suggesting she considers herself to be more powerful than a pre-training Outlander, which means she's > a more powerful iteration of the HoT than the act 3 version.

Meanwhile we have an accolade which places Marr above Act 3 Empire's Wrath who is around equal to the HoT based on the fact that the HoT was given a hard fight by Malgus who also lost to Act 3 to The Empire's Wrath. This would place the Empire's Wrath above Act 1 HoT.

Which accolade is this?

For the record, I believe Marr > act 3 Emperor's Wrath just as Satele >/= act 3 HoT, but I'm going to ask for a quote for this.

There's no evidence that he was referring to himself in his norma form.

As for the second part I'm not exactly sure what you're suggesting apologies I'm tired lol.

@breakofdawn

That isn't him saying "oh yeah, by the way mate only now is Satele my equal." That's him calling her his equal in both status and power.

Whether he's referring to his spirit self or his normal self is completely unknown. He says he sought an ally who was his equal to make things right again but there is no way to distinguish whether he's referring to him as a physical being or in his spirit form.

Which accolade is this?

The one which says he second to none in The Empire which would include the Empire's Wrath and Darth Nox.

"With his humanity long forgotten and his face unseen, Marr's inner thoughts are impossible to determine. But his desire to leave a strong Empire behind him is unquestioned, and his abilities are second to none."

Credit: Darth Marr Codex Entry

I also believe one of the developers said he was above Malgus. I'll have to go check on it.

@arkhamasylum3:

There's no evidence that he was referring to himself in his norma form.

I mean, they can't exactly be anymore explicit. They're frequently shown as equals in each of the expansions in both status and power, both appear to acknowledge the other as their equal in both ideology and raw power/knowledge, etc.

As for the second part I'm not exactly sure what you're suggesting apologies I'm tired lol.

No worries. In chapter 12 Satele says shortly after being tricked by Valkorian into believing he amped the Outlander "Valkorian strengthened your bond to the Force. You may be the greatest of us all, but your old training couldn't prepare you for what's to come." The quote suggests that it was only after undergoing this new training that the Outlander became more powerful than either Marr or Satele. He was always more skilled, but it's only after chapter 12 that he becomes stronger. It paints the two of them as being stronger; Marr off accolades and the like, and Satele off her own claims and scaling with Marr.

The one which says he second to none in The Empire which would include the Empire's Wrath and Darth Nox.

"With his humanity long forgotten and his face unseen, Marr's inner thoughts are impossible to determine. But his desire to leave a strong Empire behind him is unquestioned, and his abilities are second to none."

Credit: Darth Marr Codex Entry

Yeah, I've seen that one. Sounds about right.

I also believe one of the developers said he was above Malgus. I'll have to go check on it.

I think I know which one you're talking about but I can't remember the exact wording.

@breakofdawn: Will respond later.

@breakofdawn: I forgot that this is not prime Mace. I truly think the battle could go either way between the two.

Darth Baras vs Shaak Ti: Baras, against any Ti. Ti is really overrated, tbh

Darth Marr vs Obi-Wan: Kenobi, he should be slightly more powerful and is more skilled

Darth Mortis vs Agen Kolar: Mortis, he was considered the third strongest sith in the empire iirc (Right under Vitiate and Marr)

Darth Thanaton vs Plo Koon: Thanaton, on a limb

Darth Mekhis vs Kit Fisto: Fisto via feats

Darth Acharon vs Saesee Tinn: I think Tinn

Darth Ravage vs Stass Allie: Neither has done jack shit

Darth Jadus vs Mace Windu: Jadus by hype IMO, Windu by feats. Based on what Jadus did show though I'd side with him

Valkorion vs Yoda: Yoda. High diff with force, stomps in sabers