Avatar image for kingofwakanda
#1 Posted by KingOfWakanda (2371 posts) - - Show Bio
No Caption Provided

Vs.

No Caption Provided

No Caption Provided

Bride gets her Hattori Hanzo katana.

Snow gets LongClaw. Dayne gets his two swords.

Fight to the death.

Takes place in an open field.

Avatar image for paytience
#2 Posted by Paytience (4719 posts) - - Show Bio

Lol...what? Dane solos because armor works like that.

Avatar image for kingofwakanda
#3 Posted by KingOfWakanda (2371 posts) - - Show Bio

@paytience: His arms and legs don't appear to be armored. The Bride is pretty adept at cutting off limbs.

Avatar image for discipulus
#4 Posted by Discipulus (513 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't think she's getting past Dayne.

Avatar image for kinglouie
#5 Posted by KingLouie (2985 posts) - - Show Bio

Bride

Avatar image for rogueshadow
#6 Edited by rogueshadow (29174 posts) - - Show Bio

The Bride destroys them. They aren't operating on the same level.

Moderator
Avatar image for kingcrimson
#7 Posted by KingCrimson (5325 posts) - - Show Bio

Bride beats either 1-v-1, but not sure she can handle them both at once.

Online
Avatar image for kingofwakanda
#8 Posted by KingOfWakanda (2371 posts) - - Show Bio

@rogueshadow: I know she beats them one on one but you think it's a stomp with both? I'm a little surprised, I thought it was close.

Avatar image for rogueshadow
#9 Edited by rogueshadow (29174 posts) - - Show Bio

@rogueshadow: I know she beats them one on one but you think it's a stomp with both? I'm a little surprised, I thought it was close.

She's written to stand in the middle of dozens of Yakuza with swords and just go to town on them, I can't see them ever winning.

Moderator
Avatar image for paytience
#10 Edited by Paytience (4719 posts) - - Show Bio

@kingofwakanda said:

@paytience: His arms and legs don't appear to be armored. The Bride is pretty adept at cutting off limbs.

It's definitely armored bruh. That skirt looking thing hanging down from under his plate? That's soft armor that goes under the plate. He isn't wearing greaves, but mail boots, gamboson and mail are more than enough to turn a sword. You can reference The Hound schooling Arya on how armor works for evidence that yes, armor is a concern. She isn't going to be willy nilly slashing off limbs in the first place because Dane is a better swordsman than she is.

So...Aurthur Dane has better armor, longer weapons, and is a better displayed swordsman. The Bride has a little bit of quickness advantage, but that means nothing when she can't avoid his attack arc with a weapon that short, and she can't overcome his armor with strikes that fast.

Dane solos.

Avatar image for empressofdread
#11 Posted by EmpressOfDread (12367 posts) - - Show Bio

She should win.

I think @the_red_viper can analyse this battle pretty accurately, thoughts?

Avatar image for paytience
#12 Edited by Paytience (4719 posts) - - Show Bio
Loading Video...

Avatar image for kingofwakanda
#13 Posted by KingOfWakanda (2371 posts) - - Show Bio

@rogueshadow: Hmmm. I just figured with Snow being able to take on millennium old White Walkers and Dayne being able to toy with 5 swordsmen at once including a young Ned Stark this might be competitive.

The Bride can destroy dozens of Yakuza but she doesn't dispatch competent swordsmen like Elle Driver or Oren easily.

Avatar image for empressofdread
#14 Posted by EmpressOfDread (12367 posts) - - Show Bio

@kingofwakanda said:

@paytience: His arms and legs don't appear to be armored. The Bride is pretty adept at cutting off limbs.

It's definitely armored bruh. That skirt looking thing hanging down from under his plate? That's soft armor that goes under the plate. He isn't wearing greaves, but mail boots, gamboson and mail are more than enough to turn a sword. You can reference The Hound schooling Arya on how armor works for evidence that yes, armor is a concern. She isn't going to be willy nilly slashing off limbs in the first place because Dane is a better swordsman than she is.

So...Aurthur Dane has better armor, longer weapons, and is a better displayed swordsman. The Bride has a little bit of quickness advantage, but that means nothing when she can't avoid his attack arc with a weapon that short, and she can't overcome his armor with strikes that fast.

Dane solos.

To be fair, Brides sword cuts through normal swords with ease.

Avatar image for rogueshadow
#15 Posted by rogueshadow (29174 posts) - - Show Bio

@kingofwakanda: O-Ren and Elle have no poor showings that would suggest that Beatrix struggling with them devalues her feat against the C88.

Moderator
Avatar image for paytience
#16 Edited by Paytience (4719 posts) - - Show Bio

@empressofdread said:@paytience said: @kingofwakanda said: @paytience: His arms and legs don't appear to be armored. The Bride is pretty adept at cutting off limbs.

It's definitely armored bruh. That skirt looking thing hanging down from under his plate? That's soft armor that goes under the plate. He isn't wearing greaves, but mail boots, gamboson and mail are more than enough to turn a sword. You can reference The Hound schooling Arya on how armor works for evidence that yes, armor is a concern. She isn't going to be willy nilly slashing off limbs in the first place because Dane is a better swordsman than she is.

So...Aurthur Dane has better armor, longer weapons, and is a better displayed swordsman. The Bride has a little bit of quickness advantage, but that means nothing when she can't avoid his attack arc with a weapon that short, and she can't overcome his armor with strikes that fast.

Dane solos.

To be fair, Brides sword cuts through normal swords with ease.

lol...define normal sword. Because from what I gathered, her sword IS a normal sword. Just a really well made one. It's also important since if you're going to make that argument you would have to take into account sword design and material advantages/disadvantages that influence them. Because snapping or shearing a high hardness japanese sword is a far simpler matter than snapping spring tempered long sword.

Also...if that is the argument, then Longclaw is Valerian steel. Good luck with that.

Avatar image for necromancer76
#17 Posted by Necromancer76 (3769 posts) - - Show Bio

I can’t speak for the bride, but I can safely say that Dayne is on a completely different level compared to Jon. Jon is above mediocre at best in GoT standards.

Avatar image for kingofwakanda
#18 Posted by KingOfWakanda (2371 posts) - - Show Bio

@paytience: I'll grant you armor is a factor and should deflect slicing blows. Just want to point out that it did not prevent him from getting killed.

Avatar image for paytience
#19 Edited by Paytience (4719 posts) - - Show Bio

@kingofwakanda said:

@paytience: I'll grant you armor is a factor and should deflect slicing blows. Just want to point out that it did not prevent him from getting killed.

He got stabbed through the throat from the back.

Literally, in a spot where there wasn't armor. He stabbed him just above the armor between the shoulders and the blade came out his throat. I.E. He didn't penetrate the armor. Also, against slicing blows? lol...are you arguing that she can not only penetrate full plate with a katana thrust? Because she can't...it's arguable whether or not she land such a thrust in the first place, much less get through armor designed to stop exactly that from weapons better suited for it.

Here is Arthur Dane's death...you can clearly see the knife come out of his throat, and you can see the knife being pulled out of his body from just above the armor:

Loading Video...
Avatar image for kingofwakanda
#20 Posted by KingOfWakanda (2371 posts) - - Show Bio

@kingofwakanda: O-Ren and Elle have no poor showings that would suggest that Beatrix struggling with them devalues her feat against the C88.

The Crazy 88 are fodder. Beatrix wrecking them is a great fodder wrecking feat. O-Ren and Elle are established swordsmen (swordswomen). I think Jon and Arthur are much closer in skill to O-Ren and Elle than the Crazy 88.

Avatar image for morpheus_
#21 Posted by Morpheus_ (34339 posts) - - Show Bio

@rogueshadow said:

@kingofwakanda: O-Ren and Elle have no poor showings that would suggest that Beatrix struggling with them devalues her feat against the C88.

The Crazy 88 are fodder. Beatrix wrecking them is a great fodder wrecking feat. O-Ren and Elle are established swordsmen (swordswomen). I think Jon and Arthur are much closer in skill to O-Ren and Elle than the Crazy 88.

Beatrix fought Elle after she had been shot in the chest, buried and left for dead. She broke the coffin lid before crawling through the dirt to escape - it still wasn't that close. Against O-Ren, Beatrix had to tear through every single henchman she had, including Gogo. Pit the Bride against either one of them while fresh and rested and the outcome is very unlikely to be worse.

The only fight Beatrix truly struggled in without any context is against Vernita and obviously Pai Mei.

Avatar image for fictional_fan
#22 Posted by Fictional_Fan (246 posts) - - Show Bio

Beatrix stomps

Avatar image for rogueshadow
#23 Posted by rogueshadow (29174 posts) - - Show Bio

@kingofwakanda said:
@rogueshadow said:

@kingofwakanda: O-Ren and Elle have no poor showings that would suggest that Beatrix struggling with them devalues her feat against the C88.

The Crazy 88 are fodder. Beatrix wrecking them is a great fodder wrecking feat. O-Ren and Elle are established swordsmen (swordswomen). I think Jon and Arthur are much closer in skill to O-Ren and Elle than the Crazy 88.

Beatrix fought Elle after she had been shot in the chest, buried and left for dead. She broke the coffin lid before crawling through the dirt to escape - it still wasn't that close. Against O-Ren, Beatrix had to tear through every single henchman she had, including Gogo. Pit the Bride against either one of them while fresh and rested and the outcome is very unlikely to be worse.

The only fight Beatrix truly struggled in without any context is against Vernita and obviously Pai Mei.

+ Bill. They were depicted as near-equals but for the 5PPEHT, their bout was short but implies parity, with him disarming her before she traps his blade in her sheathe. All of these characters are set-up as amongst the deadliest in the verse anyway.

Moderator
Avatar image for kingofwakanda
#24 Posted by KingOfWakanda (2371 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for morpheus_
#25 Posted by Morpheus_ (34339 posts) - - Show Bio

@rogueshadow: I think we've discussed this before - it's difficult to judge Bill. Reasonably speaking he should be on her tier, but their fight is exceptionally short for me to label him as being definitively on par with her. For some reason I always thought there was a tinge of resignation in Bill's attitude, too.

Avatar image for rogueshadow
#26 Edited by rogueshadow (29174 posts) - - Show Bio

@morpheus_ said:

@rogueshadow: I think we've discussed this before - it's difficult to judge Bill. Reasonably speaking he should be on her tier, but their fight is exceptionally short for me to label him as being definitively on par with her. For some reason I always thought there was a tinge of resignation in Bill's attitude, too.

True. Thinking about it, it's also difficult to say for sure that Beatrix employing the 5PPEHT was the product of necessity and duress due to Bill being her rival and not more to do with being a thematic climax. That said I still feel like the swift disarm indicates that he is there with her, nobody else in the series accomplished such a feat, and in such a small time-frame as well. O-Ren vs Beatrix was framed as a classic Samurai duel, whereas Beatrix vs Bill had that point - counterpoint feel to it.

Moderator
Avatar image for rogueshadow
#27 Edited by rogueshadow (29174 posts) - - Show Bio

@kingofwakanda said:
@rogueshadow said:

@kingofwakanda: O-Ren and Elle have no poor showings that would suggest that Beatrix struggling with them devalues her feat against the C88.

The Crazy 88 are fodder. Beatrix wrecking them is a great fodder wrecking feat. O-Ren and Elle are established swordsmen (swordswomen). I think Jon and Arthur are much closer in skill to O-Ren and Elle than the Crazy 88.

They are... a lot of fodder. Far more than anybody in GoT has or would ever be depicted as capable of defeating. O-Ren and Elle are not great as gauges, they scale to Beatrix, not vice-versa.

Moderator
Avatar image for morpheus_
#28 Posted by Morpheus_ (34339 posts) - - Show Bio

@rogueshadow: It's a bit of a Chekhov's gun that would had been left unresolved had she not used the technique. It also matches Beatrix's distress when she hears Elle gloat about poisoning Pai Mei - given that we eventually learn he trusted her beyond any other disciple. And I know what you mean about them being able to counter one another to the point of perfect balance - Tarantino also seemed to favor a verbal and emotionally therapeutic confrontation between them rather than a purely physical contest.

Avatar image for the_red_viper
#29 Posted by the_red_viper (12572 posts) - - Show Bio

@empressofdread: Oh, yeah. Kiddo slaughters. Throw in the Hound and she still takes 10/10.

Moderator
Avatar image for the_red_viper
#30 Edited by the_red_viper (12572 posts) - - Show Bio

@rogueshadow: @morpheus_: I'd also point out the deleted scene where Bill displayed some good skills.

As far as hand to hand goes, I'd put Kiddo above Bill solely due to the Pai Mei hype. She was his greatest and most beloved pupil, to the point he taught her the 5PPEHT (and her being the only person in history to earn that privilege), despite her being a Caucasian American woman, which is everything Pai Mei despises. As far as sword fighting goes, it's tough to assess, but I'd say they're closer to one another on that front, with Bill maybe having an edge (no pun intended lol). His swift disarming of Beatrix, his showings in the deleted scene and Hattori Hanzo's reverence of him are good indicators.

Moderator
Avatar image for noah_ouellette
#31 Posted by noah_ouellette (3484 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for laurus
#32 Posted by Laurus (1553 posts) - - Show Bio

Dane solos, easily. Snow is a non-factor anyway.

Avatar image for kingofwakanda
#33 Edited by KingOfWakanda (2371 posts) - - Show Bio

@noah_ouellette: damn, have to rewatch a great battle. Lol, enjoy and let us know who you think takes it.

Avatar image for kingofwakanda
#34 Edited by KingOfWakanda (2371 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump

Avatar image for firestormfate1919
#35 Posted by FirestormFate1919 (6211 posts) - - Show Bio

As much as I love Jon and Dayne, they're getting killed here. Beatrix just operates on a seperate tier of skill.

Avatar image for kingofwakanda
#36 Posted by KingOfWakanda (2371 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump. Still not sure who wins.