The Borg (Star Trek) vs. The Empire (Star Wars)

@steelhound56 said:

The SWverse Turbolasers are not lasers really. They are directed energy weapons, and are shown to have kinetic force in the gigaton range. Lasers are directed light waves so dense they can burn stuff. The SWtech is quite a bit different, as they more resemble plasma based weaponry than lasers.

Your average Star Destroyer is around 1,600 meters long, and armed to the teeth with turbolasers, ion cannons, and anti starship laser cannons (once again, plasma tech, not an actual laser)

The Empire has tens of thousands of these in it's disposal.

Your average Super Star Destroyer dwarfs a Star Destroyer in both size and armament. They are at least 3,800- 5,000 meters long, and boast easily double the armament of your average Star Destroyer. although they are fewer of these in the Empire's navy, the massive firepower output makes up for decreased numbers. I estimate thousands of these to be in the Imperial Navy.

The Executor class Star Dreadnought was Darth Vader's personal flagship, and among the Empire's most potent space combat ships. Even more massive than a Super Star Destroyer, the Executor class Star Dreadnought measures 19 kilometers long, and are armed with the following space combat weapons

2,000 Turbolaser cannons, fire linked in groups of 8

2,000 Heavy Turbolaser cannons, fire linked in groups of 8

250 Assault concussion missile tubes, 30 missiles to each tube

250 Heavy Ion Cannons

40 Tractor Beam Projectors

500 Point Defense Laser cannons

The Star Dreadnought could carry thousands of TIE fighters, 30 AT-AT walkers, 40 AT-ST, 2 Prefabricated Garrison Bases, 200 other various assault and support craft, and Y-85 Titan Dropships

There are at least 4 of these in the disposal of The Empire, although I imagine the Empire would have more than 4, but no more than 50.

Then you have the Death Star, Death Star II, Emperor Palpatine, Darth Vader, All of the Emperor's Hands, The Inquisitors, Millions of Imperial Naval Troops, TIE fighters, and several other support and assault spacecraft

For all the craft and personnel at the Empire's disposal, click the link below

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Imperial_Navy

The sheer size and potency of the Empire will crush the Borg collective, as they lack the firepower to penetrate the super structure's defenses, and the foresight of Emperor Palpatine, Darth Vader, and other Force sensitives of the Empire will be able to deal with Borg assimilation techniques via purging the technology via Force techniques.

From what I've seen of the Borg drones, they may not even be able to get close enough to stormtroopers or other combat personnel to inject the nanoprobes into their bloodstreams. And, given that SW armor seems to be far superior to ST armor, the Borg tubules may not even penetrate Stormtrooper armor.

The big weapon most of the Borg battles deal with is a no limits fallacy assuming the Borg will be able to assimilate any technology they come across. SW Tech is from a different universe compared to ST tech. The two universes don't even operate on the same physics principles.

Starwars armor sucks! Ewoks easily Whacked an army of stormtroopers wearing such armor with rocks.

Can the Empire even hit the Borg? I mean seriously Borg have impulse they can run circles around the Empire while those ships sit their like ducks.

Also seeing as the Empire does not have transporters nothing stop the Borg from just transporting over some explosives. There is no reason to assume they can block tech that they have no equivalent too.

The Empire doesnt stand a chance. In TOS it was said that the Enterprise's phasers could destroy half a continent. By TNG they had much more powerful weapons, and the Borg had even more powerful weapons than they did. Plus Borg shields, transporters, tractor beams, assimilation tech, personal shields, and overall more advanced tech... they win.

@Beerhappy: I think the Empire's abilities in computer sciences is very sophisticated. The movies didn't show us any details of the technology because that wasn't part of the story being told. I don't know what was presented in EU because I haven't read most of it so I don't know how much detail was used to describe the computer sciences. However, all the ships, communications systems, probes, and droids running around everywhere shows that they do have impressive computer technology. I don't think it will very easy for the Borg to hack into the systems.

George Lucas intended SW tech to look like a cross between old sci-fi pulp magazine covers and WWII tech. That's why there's apparently silly thing like turret gunners. At the beginning of episode 3, while Anakin and Obi-Wan fly through the fleet battle over Coruscant you can see troopers hand-loading shells into cannons.

That stylistic choice should not confuse people about the advanced nature of the tech itself. Just look at ST:TOS. That sure as heck doesn't look very advanced by our present conceptions. Art direction, production budget constraints, and special effects limitations all come into play and need to be parsed to figure out the level of technology the audience is intended to see.

Another point, the Stormtroopers lost to the Ewoks because the Force was fully with the Rebellion at that point. Luke's confrontation with the Vader and the Emperor had metaphysical consequences. Even in the Original Trilogy, the Stormtroopers were very effective up until that point. They successfully boarded Leia's blockade runner. They successfully tracked the droids to the Lars farm. They "failed" to capture the rebels on the Death Star because Vader and Tarkin allowed the Falcon to escape in order to track them back to the Rebel base. They stomped the Rebel stronghold on Hoth. They successfully captured Han's squad on the Forest Moon of Endor. They only started sucking once Luke was fighting the Dark Side of the Force.

As to this battle, the OP should have designated which canon was to be used. If SW EU and tech manuals are allowed, then the Empire murderstomps the Borg. If we go by only what we see on the screen (the canon I prefer as it most accurately represents Roddenberry and Lucas' intention), then the Borg have a chance only if they pursue a covert strategy...which would be out of character. The Borg cube is more maneuverable than the Star Destroyer...that's why SD's have TIE fighters. Borg Drones have personal shields, but so do Droidekas which the the Troopers handle with ease. SW doesn't have teleportation technology, but it's not like the Empire couldn't do a little assimilation of their own. Even if the Borg have this initial advantage, the Empire is so vast they'll have plenty of time to adapt to the Borg. I think the Empire will have a numerical advantage, but not as much as the EU/tech manuals/wikis would have you believe. The SW galaxy was unmilitarized before SW: Ep. 2, whereas the ST Milky Way is incredibly militarized. I don't buy that the Empire's fleet would have to be as large as some think to rule their galaxy.

@Malonius: Well put. EUverse does indeed murderstomp. Movieverse is closer, but i still think SW beats the Borg in this match up

@steelhound56 said:

@Malonius: Well put. EUverse does indeed murderstomp. Movieverse is closer, but i still think SW beats the Borg in this match up

I agree. People are underestimating Star Wars tech based on the way it looks, but the Empire is the heir to a galaxy spanning civilization thousands of years old encompassing millions of star systems and tens of thousands of species. I just doubt the Borg have much to throw at them that they've never encountered before aside from transporters.

@Malonius said:

@steelhound56 said:

@Malonius: Well put. EUverse does indeed murderstomp. Movieverse is closer, but i still think SW beats the Borg in this match up

I agree. People are underestimating Star Wars tech based on the way it looks, but the Empire is the heir to a galaxy spanning civilization thousands of years old encompassing millions of star systems and tens of thousands of species. I just doubt the Borg have much to throw at them that they've never encountered before aside from transporters.

The Empire has a lot going for it, but the Borg are just too powerful. In the battle of Wolf 359 a single Borg cube destroyed an entire fleet of Starfleet ships, sometimes destroying ships with a single shot of it's phaser-like weapon. Each of those Fed ships could probably take on a Star Destroyer by itself, and the Borg cube had no problem at all taking them out.

@WillPayton said:

@Malonius said:

@steelhound56 said:

@Malonius: Well put. EUverse does indeed murderstomp. Movieverse is closer, but i still think SW beats the Borg in this match up

I agree. People are underestimating Star Wars tech based on the way it looks, but the Empire is the heir to a galaxy spanning civilization thousands of years old encompassing millions of star systems and tens of thousands of species. I just doubt the Borg have much to throw at them that they've never encountered before aside from transporters.

The Empire has a lot going for it, but the Borg are just too powerful. In the battle of Wolf 359 a single Borg cube destroyed an entire fleet of Starfleet ships, sometimes destroying ships with a single shot of it's phaser-like weapon. Each of those Fed ships could probably take on a Star Destroyer by itself, and the Borg cube had no problem at all taking them out.

I don't have any way to estimate the relative power of a Star Destroyer vs. a Borg Cube without reference to the Expanded Universes, which, if you look it up, would show you that the Borg are massively outnumbered and outgunned by the Empire. We need to think of examples in movie canon of ships doing basically the same thing in their respective universe and how easy or difficult it was for them.

Supporting your view of equivalency is that Grievous' ship (Ep. III) and the Enterprise D (Generations) both experienced semi-controlled crash landings with similar results in terms of apparent damage.

Star Destroyers were vaporizing asteroids with one shot from just one of their turbolasers in Ep. 5. Is their a similar feat in Trek? I can recall from DS9 that a Federation soldier was thinking of becoming an asteroid cutter for a mining operation after he shot himself in the foot to avoid fighting Klingons. He stated that the miners use phasers to cut apart asteroids to get at the minerals inside. But I also seem to remember the Enterprise D struggling to deal with a comet or asteroid that was heading towards a planet in TNG. Does this imply that phasers are less powerful or simply more controllable?

It would be cool to have a comparison list from the respective TV/movie canons.

Actually that was a piece of a collapsed star that was gonna hit that planet.

This is how i imagine how the borg would handle things.

Send out a cube to try and assimilate something. Cube gets Geeked by "possibly" Uber Turbo lazers/proton torpedoes.

The borg having learned a thing or three from Their conflict with Species 8472 realize that a frontal assault isn't always necessarily the answer. then they do the Sneaky Mc Assimilate technique. Now they have uber lazers and uber sheilds with which to fight. the borg wouldn't just necessarily single out The imperial ships they would assimilate most anything that they perceived as worthy of assimilation. Their numbers would greatly swell. Each Ship, each world each System would add tremendously to the collectives bulk and tech. The borg would eat the galaxy like an nanobot driven cancer.

Its likely that the borg would come into conflict with one of the lesser force users allied with the empire. mara jade or one of the others from the EU. Or learn of the force and the sort of threat it lintels against the collective. The borg might have run into an insurmountable obstacle. Except for the fact at the time of the empire the yuuzhan vong.were infiltrating and learning about their soon to be foe. Its reasonable to believe that the Borg would come into and assimilate one of these scouts and spies, The Biological distinctiveness of the Yuuzhan Vong shall be added to their own. resistance is futile.

So now the borg is force proof (ish) and armed to the teeth with an army as large as a million worlds. Darth vader is made the new borg king after screw jobbing the emporer. (He is rather Borgish himself) He crushes the rebellion and ushers in a true order to the galaxy.

@Malonius said:

@WillPayton said:

@Malonius said:

@steelhound56 said:

@Malonius: Well put. EUverse does indeed murderstomp. Movieverse is closer, but i still think SW beats the Borg in this match up

I agree. People are underestimating Star Wars tech based on the way it looks, but the Empire is the heir to a galaxy spanning civilization thousands of years old encompassing millions of star systems and tens of thousands of species. I just doubt the Borg have much to throw at them that they've never encountered before aside from transporters.

The Empire has a lot going for it, but the Borg are just too powerful. In the battle of Wolf 359 a single Borg cube destroyed an entire fleet of Starfleet ships, sometimes destroying ships with a single shot of it's phaser-like weapon. Each of those Fed ships could probably take on a Star Destroyer by itself, and the Borg cube had no problem at all taking them out.

I don't have any way to estimate the relative power of a Star Destroyer vs. a Borg Cube without reference to the Expanded Universes, which, if you look it up, would show you that the Borg are massively outnumbered and outgunned by the Empire. We need to think of examples in movie canon of ships doing basically the same thing in their respective universe and how easy or difficult it was for them.

Supporting your view of equivalency is that Grievous' ship (Ep. III) and the Enterprise D (Generations) both experienced semi-controlled crash landings with similar results in terms of apparent damage.

Star Destroyers were vaporizing asteroids with one shot from just one of their turbolasers in Ep. 5. Is their a similar feat in Trek? I can recall from DS9 that a Federation soldier was thinking of becoming an asteroid cutter for a mining operation after he shot himself in the foot to avoid fighting Klingons. He stated that the miners use phasers to cut apart asteroids to get at the minerals inside. But I also seem to remember the Enterprise D struggling to deal with a comet or asteroid that was heading towards a planet in TNG. Does this imply that phasers are less powerful or simply more controllable?

It would be cool to have a comparison list from the respective TV/movie canons.

I found a couple of sites talking about the yield of some Trek weapons.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_weapons_in_Star_Trek

http://forums.startrekonline.com/showpost.php?s=93ed6bf2e3c6b126b6e6cae9cc15db24&p=542520&postcount=28

The interesting bits talk about the power output of photon torpedoes. Specifically, that normal photon torpedoes yield about 25 "isotons", but could be modified using Borg technology to 54 or even 80 isotons. For comparison, it was stated that approximately 50 isotons would be needed to destroy a small planet.

In another site I it says that quantum torpedoes could go as high as 250 isotons.

Considering that generally the Borg weapons were more powerful than Fed ones, it's not unreasonable to infer that they would have similar power outputs, or that their shields would be able to handle hits from same.

@cliffrice: The Ewok rebellion is at best a feat of MASSIVE PIS for the Empire. The best explaination in universe for it comes down to the Will of the Force. I am about to present a theory as to how the Force acted to restore balance to itself. This is taking parts of EU continuity concerning The Sith and the Movies together into what I think presents the most coherent picture.

THEORY

The Force itself is a benevolent entity. Sure, it's mysterious, and works on a grander scale than anyone can realize, but in the end it's benevolent.

The Jedi Prophecy of The Chosen One is true.

According to the Jedi, The Dark Side is a perversion of the Force's natural state.

When Bane and Zannah established the Rule of Two, they prevent their own destruction by hiding away from The Jedi, and vanishing from the galaxy. This prevented the Jedi (the users of the Force's natural state) from restoring true balance to the Force, the destruction of the Sith.

The Force moves to restore balance to the Force in Ep I, by the revealing of the Sith to the Jedi Order. The Force also reveals The Chosen One, Anakin Skywalker, to the Jedi Order.

By Episode II, The Jedi Order itself had become corrupt, as by Yoda's admission, many Jedi Knights and Master had grown arrogant and entitled due to their position in the galaxy.

Many of the traditions of the Post Ruusan Jedi Order were not benevolent. They took children from their families at a very young age, to mold them into what The Council believed to be the Ideal Jedi.

This tradition was wrong, as even the Masters of the High Council are fallable beings. Even Yoda admits that the practice of taking children was wrong, and the steadfast embrace of relatives would be a better solution to guarding against corruption.

But I digress,

In order to begin it's endgame for restoring balance, The Force allowed The Sith to rise to prominence in Episode III. Anakin, being the Chosen One, falls to the Dark Side to escape the destruction of the Jedi Order, allowing him to survive until he can fufill his destiny.

Order 66 and Operation Knightfall (Where Vader razed the Jedi Temple) all but wipes the Jedi Order, and its well meant, but wrong traditions out of existence.

This allowed the Dark Side to fully percolate to the surface, where the Jedi had been humbled, and reduced to the position of the Sith 1,000 years ago (Where Bane and Zannah were the only 2 true surviving Sith)

Even Yoda and Obi Wan adopted the form of survival The Sith embraced under The Rule of Two, hiding away on planets where the Sith and the Empire would not find them, and waiting for the right time to move against their opponents.

Vader himself states several times that Anakin Skywalker is dead, having died on Mustafar, where he was defeated by Obi Wan. The Vader persona seizes full control of Anakin, The Chosen One.

Once Vader had exterminated all the known survivors of Order 66 (lets put it at about 15 years Before the Battle of Yavin), the Dark Side had far more influence than the Light Side of the Force, once again at 90% Dark, 10% Light. This state of imbalance persists for 15 years.

From there, this imbalance continues until the destruction of the Death Star, where The Force begins to enact the final stages to restore balance to itself.

Vader finds out that his son, Luke is alive. This begins to change him, rekindling the good in him, preparing him for his ultimate destiny.

In Episode V, Vader reveals to Luke that he is his father. This is a huge step concerning Vader's eventual redemption, as he admits that he and Anakin are the same person. The inner conflict between Anakin and Vader begins.

Luke becomes a true Jedi in Episode VI, having constructed a new lightsaber, and ending his Jedi training under Yoda (by Yoda's death). This is an often overlooked stage in Star Wars. Yoda had enough time to train Luke to use the Force as a Jedi, but not to leave behind any instructions on how to train other Jedi.

This leaves Luke with a blank slate to found a New Jedi Order.

At the end of Episode VI, Luke faces the Emperor and Vader on the Death Star II, above Endor. At this point, the Vader/Anakin conflict is reaching a breaking point. Vader wishes to redeem himself, but believes it is too late.

This is illustrated by the dialouge between Luke and Vader on Endor, where Vader states "It is too late for me, son."

Under Palpatine's persuasion, Luke moves to kill Palpatine. Vader moves to defend his Master. Luke and Vader duel, with Luke giving into his anger and using it to defeat Vader. Palpatine urges him to kill Vader, and take his place as Palpatine's apprentice.

Luke ultimately refuses the Dark Side, stating that "I am a Jedi, like my father before me".

Palpatine moves to kill Luke, torturing him as Vader recovers from his defeat. The Vader/Anakin conflict reaches its breaking point when Vader witnesses his only son being tortured to death by Palpatine. The Anakin persona wins the conflict with Vader.

Vader is no more.

Acting out of love for his son, Anakin throws Palpatine over the edge of the balcony to his death. The Chosen One fufills his destiny, destroying the Sith as a Jedi. (Return of the Jedi is as much about Vader's redemption as a Jedi as it is about Luke becoming one.)

Being fatally injured by Palpatine's lightning, Anakin urges Luke to remove his helmet, so he can see him with his own eyes.

Having closure with Luke, Anakin becomes one with the Force.

The Rebellion succeeds in destroying the Death Star II. The Empire is in disarray. The Force is again in balance.

Luke becomes the sum of his experiences. Luke goes on to found a New Jedi Order, establishing new traditions based on enocuragement, family, and acceptance.

@WillPayton said:

I found a couple of sites talking about the yield of some Trek weapons.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_weapons_in_Star_Trek

http://forums.startrekonline.com/showpost.php?s=93ed6bf2e3c6b126b6e6cae9cc15db24&p=542520&postcount=28

The interesting bits talk about the power output of photon torpedoes. Specifically, that normal photon torpedoes yield about 25 "isotons", but could be modified using Borg technology to 54 or even 80 isotons. For comparison, it was stated that approximately 50 isotons would be needed to destroy a small planet.

In another site I it says that quantum torpedoes could go as high as 250 isotons.

Considering that generally the Borg weapons were more powerful than Fed ones, it's not unreasonable to infer that they would have similar power outputs, or that their shields would be able to handle hits from same.

Nice find, the Borg definitely have the range advantage. I posted some info on page 4 comparing them. Being modest, the Borg have anywhere between 40-90X the empires range capacity as well and can use their transporters about 40x the distance of the empires range capacity. The main issue is that be Borg might be out numbered. The largest empire ships hold about 47K people with only 10k being actual troopers, while the Borg cubes can hold `130K, most of which are combat capable. There are trillions of Borg, but are there trillions of Storm Troopers, the fight might not be as one sided as it started to look, if they have similar firepower.

What is the range on a tractor beam?

if the force is so benevolent why does it just not depower darksiders.

@drgnx said:

Nice find, the Borg definitely have the range advantage. I posted some info on page 4 comparing them. Being modest, the Borg have anywhere between 40-90X the empires range capacity as well and can use their transporters about 40x the distance of the empires range capacity. The main issue is that be Borg might be out numbered. The largest empire ships hold about 47K people with only 10k being actual troopers, while the Borg cubes can hold `130K, most of which are combat capable. There are trillions of Borg, but are their trillions of Storm Troopers, the fight might not be ass one sided as it started too look, if they have similar firepower.

That kind of range superiority is an overwhelming advantage, regardless of whether the Borg are outnumbered by the Empire. A single Borg cube can conceivably take out an entire Empire fleet before the Empire is even in range to get a single hit in.

Actually thinking about it, numbers would mean nothing when you have weapons that can destroy entire planets. It's not like they'd ever even have to get into one-on-one fighting... which even if it happened, the Borg would win due to their ability to adapt their personal shields to any enemy weapon. Remember it only took a few phaser hits on Borg drones before the rest adapted their shield to become invulnerable to phaser fire.

@Skaddix said:

What is the range on a tractor beam?

if the force is so benevolent why does it just not depower darksiders.

I dont know for sure, but my guess is less than 10 km.

For transporters I think it's something like 40,000 km.

@WillPayton said:

@drgnx said:

Nice find, the Borg definitely have the range advantage. I posted some info on page 4 comparing them. Being modest, the Borg have anywhere between 40-90X the empires range capacity as well and can use their transporters about 40x the distance of the empires range capacity. The main issue is that be Borg might be out numbered. The largest empire ships hold about 47K people with only 10k being actual troopers, while the Borg cubes can hold `130K, most of which are combat capable. There are trillions of Borg, but are their trillions of Storm Troopers, the fight might not be ass one sided as it started too look, if they have similar firepower.

That kind of range superiority is an overwhelming advantage, regardless of whether the Borg are outnumbered by the Empire. A single Borg cube can conceivably take out an entire Empire fleet before the Empire is even in range to get a single hit in.

Actually thinking about it, numbers would mean nothing when you have weapons that can destroy entire planets. It's not like they'd ever even have to get into one-on-one fighting... which even if it happened, the Borg would win due to their ability to adapt their personal shields to any enemy weapon. Remember it only took a few phaser hits on Borg drones before the rest adapted their shield to become invulnerable to phaser fire.

Not to mention Borg have Impulse they could literally backup while shooting at the Empire.

True and the Empires weapons don't have frequencies so the Federation Tactic of Modulating Frequency every shot won't work.

@steelhound56: On that note The empire wins,If the Borg cant adapt!.

plus Star wars weapons have Bombs, missiles, sonic bombs,and I'd like to see How Borg will do to ION blasters, The Droid army, The Death Star has hords of Turbo lasers, the emperor will use battle meditation to enhance the out come.

Palpatine will know about this Drone army that can adapt, he will have his forces ready, when you enter the star wars realm automatic Force kicks in like a motion detector.Can't get around it, even the Force immune alien race called the Yuu zhan, Palpatine knew about their coming, and preped with his Vast Empire and super weapons (Star wars novels) Palpatine will be ready for the borg! as will his Empire swarms of tie bombers,thousands tie fighters, Star destroyers, Super Star destroyers, Galaxy gun, eye of Palpatine,the dark saber,Death Star prototype ,ground forces, mass Troopers infiltrating Cubes,spheres, Droid army, The Force.. The borg will fail I just dont see them adapting to Plasma and bombs and I can't see the borg adapting to a Lightsaber unless ray shielded which they are not, I dont recall Borg capable of adapting to non frequency Lasers or energy, A lightsaber isn't that, or is it?

THEORY

The Force itself is a benevolent entity. Sure, it's mysterious, and works on a grander scale than anyone can realize, but in the end it's benevolent.

The Jedi Prophecy of The Chosen One is true.

According to the Jedi, The Dark Side is a perversion of the Force's natural state.

When Bane and Zannah established the Rule of Two, they prevent their own destruction by hiding away from The Jedi, and vanishing from the galaxy. This prevented the Jedi (the users of the Force's natural state) from restoring true balance to the Force, the destruction of the Sith.

The Force moves to restore balance to the Force in Ep I, by the revealing of the Sith to the Jedi Order. The Force also reveals The Chosen One, Anakin Skywalker, to the Jedi Order.

By Episode II, The Jedi Order itself had become corrupt, as by Yoda's admission, many Jedi Knights and Master had grown arrogant and entitled due to their position in the galaxy.

Many of the traditions of the Post Ruusan Jedi Order were not benevolent. They took children from their families at a very young age, to mold them into what The Council believed to be the Ideal Jedi.

This tradition was wrong, as even the Masters of the High Council are fallable beings. Even Yoda admits that the practice of taking children was wrong, and the steadfast embrace of relatives would be a better solution to guarding against corruption.

But I digress,

In order to begin it's endgame for restoring balance, The Force allowed The Sith to rise to prominence in Episode III. Anakin, being the Chosen One, falls to the Dark Side to escape the destruction of the Jedi Order, allowing him to survive until he can fufill his destiny.

Order 66 and Operation Knightfall (Where Vader razed the Jedi Temple) all but wipes the Jedi Order, and its well meant, but wrong traditions out of existence.

This allowed the Dark Side to fully percolate to the surface, where the Jedi had been humbled, and reduced to the position of the Sith 1,000 years ago (Where Bane and Zannah were the only 2 true surviving Sith)

Even Yoda and Obi Wan adopted the form of survival The Sith embraced under The Rule of Two, hiding away on planets where the Sith and the Empire would not find them, and waiting for the right time to move against their opponents.

Vader himself states several times that Anakin Skywalker is dead, having died on Mustafar, where he was defeated by Obi Wan. The Vader persona seizes full control of Anakin, The Chosen One.

Once Vader had exterminated all the known survivors of Order 66 (lets put it at about 15 years Before the Battle of Yavin), the Dark Side had far more influence than the Light Side of the Force, once again at 90% Dark, 10% Light. This state of imbalance persists for 15 years.

From there, this imbalance continues until the destruction of the Death Star, where The Force begins to enact the final stages to restore balance to itself.

Vader finds out that his son, Luke is alive. This begins to change him, rekindling the good in him, preparing him for his ultimate destiny.

In Episode V, Vader reveals to Luke that he is his father. This is a huge step concerning Vader's eventual redemption, as he admits that he and Anakin are the same person. The inner conflict between Anakin and Vader begins.

Luke becomes a true Jedi in Episode VI, having constructed a new lightsaber, and ending his Jedi training under Yoda (by Yoda's death). This is an often overlooked stage in Star Wars. Yoda had enough time to train Luke to use the Force as a Jedi, but not to leave behind any instructions on how to train other Jedi.

This leaves Luke with a blank slate to found a New Jedi Order.

At the end of Episode VI, Luke faces the Emperor and Vader on the Death Star II, above Endor. At this point, the Vader/Anakin conflict is reaching a breaking point. Vader wishes to redeem himself, but believes it is too late.

This is illustrated by the dialouge between Luke and Vader on Endor, where Vader states "It is too late for me, son."

Under Palpatine's persuasion, Luke moves to kill Palpatine. Vader moves to defend his Master. Luke and Vader duel, with Luke giving into his anger and using it to defeat Vader. Palpatine urges him to kill Vader, and take his place as Palpatine's apprentice.

Luke ultimately refuses the Dark Side, stating that "I am a Jedi, like my father before me".

Palpatine moves to kill Luke, torturing him as Vader recovers from his defeat. The Vader/Anakin conflict reaches its breaking point when Vader witnesses his only son being tortured to death by Palpatine. The Anakin persona wins the conflict with Vader.

Vader is no more.

Acting out of love for his son, Anakin throws Palpatine over the edge of the balcony to his death. The Chosen One fufills his destiny, destroying the Sith as a Jedi. (Return of the Jedi is as much about Vader's redemption as a Jedi as it is about Luke becoming one.)

Being fatally injured by Palpatine's lightning, Anakin urges Luke to remove his helmet, so he can see him with his own eyes.

Having closure with Luke, Anakin becomes one with the Force.

The Rebellion succeeds in destroying the Death Star II. The Empire is in disarray. The Force is again in balance.

Luke becomes the sum of his experiences. Luke goes on to found a New Jedi Order, establishing new traditions based on enocuragement, family, and acceptance.

@Wonderbrezzy: Palpatine does not have that many force users at his beck and call. There are not going to be that many lightsabers to worry about besides most of the fighting is going to be ship to ship and in the OP, Palpatine is not getting any special prep time. Also u cannot inflitrate the Borg in anyway. U cannot just plant some spys and get info.

Palpatine has a Sith apprentice, plus over a dozen Hands, plus a couple dozen Inquisitors, plus at least that many Dark Side Adepts, plus he can make any of his non-Force sensitive subordinates into Force sensitives by granting them a portion of his power. He has quite a few Force sensitives at his beck and call.

My previous posts had been supportive of the Empire. I'll try to be supportive of the Borg, but based on what I've seen in the movies and TV series (I haven't read any books or comic books with the Borg) they don't seem to be very strategic in war. They only send one Borg Cube against the Federation at a time. The Federation ends up winning each battle. The Borg may be collecting data, but they are allowing the Federation to collect data as well. This gives the Federation time to prepare for the Borg. If the Borg do the same thing against the Empire then the Empire will be able to come up with strategies to counter the Borg. You know what? It's really hard to think of a way for the Borg to win this war.

Thats true but in this scenario its all the borg vs the galactic empire and at times the borg have been known to use tactics other than their normal MO when presented with presented with a tenacious enough enemy. They just usually use the good old Swoop in an assimilate technique because that almost always works.

@Silver2467 said:

Palpatine has a Sith apprentice, plus over a dozen Hands, plus a couple dozen Inquisitors, plus at least that many Dark Side Adepts, plus he can make any of his non-Force sensitive subordinates into Force sensitives by granting them a portion of his power. He has quite a few Force sensitives at his beck and call.

And that would make a difference if this battle was going to planet based fighting instead of fleet to fleet.

@Wonderbrezzy said:

@steelhound56: On that note The empire wins,If the Borg cant adapt!.

plus Star wars weapons have Bombs, missiles, sonic bombs,and I'd like to see How Borg will do to ION blasters, The Droid army, The Death Star has hords of Turbo lasers, the emperor will use battle meditation to enhance the out come.

Palpatine will know about this Drone army that can adapt, he will have his forces ready, when you enter the star wars realm automatic Force kicks in like a motion detector.Can't get around it, even the Force immune alien race called the Yuu zhan, Palpatine knew about their coming, and preped with his Vast Empire and super weapons (Star wars novels) Palpatine will be ready for the borg! as will his Empire swarms of tie bombers,thousands tie fighters, Star destroyers, Super Star destroyers, Galaxy gun, eye of Palpatine,the dark saber,Death Star prototype ,ground forces, mass Troopers infiltrating Cubes,spheres, Droid army, The Force.. The borg will fail I just dont see them adapting to Plasma and bombs and I can't see the borg adapting to a Lightsaber unless ray shielded which they are not, I dont recall Borg capable of adapting to non frequency Lasers or energy, A lightsaber isn't that, or is it?

I'm not sure what a "non frequency laser" is, but the Borg would likely adapt to the Empire weapons fairly quickly. The Federation's ability to cycle weapons frequencies is the only thing that allowed them to keep the Borg from adapting to them... although they eventually did.

As far as drone armies, those would be the first things to be assimilated and fall under the Borg control. Think about it... a large army of robots that are less advanced than Borg drones... they stand no chance.

@cliffrice : The Borg's ability to assimilate certainly has advantages, but their method of assimilation is not the only one. I think the Federation also assimilates other cultures and technology into their own culture. The Empire also assimilates others into their empire. The Borg's advantage is they have a hive mind or a collective mind with greater focus on problem solving. Perhaps this is more supportive of the Borg over the Empire.

@HammerTron said:

@cliffrice : The Borg's ability to assimilate certainly has advantages, but their method of assimilation is not the only one. I think the Federation also assimilates other cultures and technology into their own culture. The Empire also assimilates others into their empire. The Borg's advantage is they have a hive mind or a collective mind with greater focus on problem solving. Perhaps this is more supportive of the Borg over the Empire.

Yes the Feds and the Empire have the ability to "assimilate", but the Borg can do it much more quickly and thoroughly. They can assimilate the knowledge, tech, people, ships, planets, etc, and very quickly. They can probably defeat or assimilate the entire Empire in the time it take the Empire to even begin to grasp the Borg technology.

@steelhound56:

@Picard: 4,000 years is a LONG time for technology to advance. The fact that you are throwing around VIDEOGAME demonstrations of an Empire that aside from Force users, is extremely primitive in comparison to the Galactic Empire is absolutely absurd.

You are assuming Borg tactics are going to work on the SW ships, and are completely ignoring the fact that vice versa should be true as well.

I've ignored the Ewok comments because that is the single biggest piece of PIS I have ever seen in movie history. And you still haven't managed to rectify how Borg ships are even going to defend themselves against the empire's weapons, which are tens of thousands of times more powerful than Borg weaponry shot for shot.

If you are going to downplay the feats of the SWverse like they are laughable, I could very easily do the same with Star Trek feats, and the Borg in particular.

Let's say that worse case scenario, they assimliate the Death Star. So what? By your admission, it can easily be destroyed by an inexperienced farm boy. What's going to happen when hundreds or thousands of highly trained TIE fighter pilots, or Vader himself, one of the best pilots in the galaxy, aim to take the Death Star down? Its going down hard, with apparent ease according to you.

Borg drones may have super strength, but they also extremely slow and clumsy in comparison to stormtroopers.

Even at their lowest showings, Stormtroopers are still faster and better coordinated than Borg drones, which move about like a horde of drunk turtles and have similarly slow reaction time. In their showings, Stormtroopers should at least be able to keep a horde of slow drones at a safe distance until higher level help can arrive (Vader, Sidious, Mara Jade, any one of the Inquisitors, the 501st etc.)

The zombie like Borg drones are then promptly crushed by every single one of these higher level characters, as personal shielding isnt going to save them from particle or plasma based weaponry, much less the Force.

Star Destroyer assimilation can also easily be dealt with. About 5 shots from another similar class of SD can take it down. That's the potency of the weaponry The Empire has in their possession. And they will know as soon as assimilation begins, as SD's carry lots of high end sensor equipment, and would be able to tell when something is amiss.

The SWverse has far more advanced travel technology than ST does, thats for sure.

It took The Enterprise YEARS to crawl around a part of the galaxy. It takes ships from Star Wars only days to travel from the Core systems to the Outer Rim of the galaxy.

I would go as far as to say EU Palpatine might very well solo this.

All it would take is him siphoning the life force from the Borg to pretty much win (he siphoned the life force of billions of induviduals from Byss, all at once) he kept the entire Imperial Navy under his direct influence through the Force.

He could create a Force Storm that would easily swallow fleets of Borg Cubes.

He could violate the minds of the Borg Queens, throwing the entire Borg hive mind into complete terror and disarray, allowing the Empire to take potshots at Borg ships, destroying them.

And most importantly, Palpatine is going to know how great of a threat the Borg poses, and he will not hold back or hesitate to annihilate anything that threatens his power.

Sorry, but what you are seeing is absurd. First of all, apparently you don't know what assimilation is. It's not about assimilating single ship or space staction, it is about possessing whole knowledge and having access to whole technology of assimilated race, it's about knowing everything about your enemy - moment when Borg will start assimilating Empire technology, will be beginning of end of Empire. Now Collective will possess all imperial technology, and knowledge how to defend against it. As you see it's not about taking over some ship, it's about ship's technollgy - this is something that Borg can consume and use, merging their own technology with Empire technology. So any advantage that Empire may have, will be gone... And yes, Empire technollogy is archaic in comparison to technology in Star Trek, expecially when we talking about races like the Borg. Empire can auto-regenerate their ships? ISD can function normally even if 80% of the vessel has been destroyed? Empire have beaming technology? Empire can assimilate other races and technologies? Empire can adapt to enemy weapons? ISD is a ships that literally thinks what it wants to do and it happens? No, ISD is a ship with turrets crewed by humans with human reaction time... But Empire is super duper advanced! :) When Empire will be able to do all the things that Borg can do, then you can talk about how advanced Empire technology is. But now, all you have is a few random numbers form technical manual or some wiki page, to describe how supposedly awesome Empire tech is. Sorry, I don't buy it, and even if I did Borg still have an edge - in episode VOY: Scropion II they developed a multikinetic neutronic mine, five million isoton yield. It was being said that an explosion that size could affect an entire star system, and that the shock wave will dispurse the nanoprobes over a radius of five light years. So you see I can play with numbers, too. :) Even if I accepted your numers and feats from Expanded universe, I still don't see how Empire could win this? For exemple, you said that some ISD changed surface of some planet into glass - first of all, it's hardly comparable with blowing planet into smithereens. Even Starfleet in XXIII century could end whole life on the planet, using single ship to do that -infamous Order 24- so is not that impressive. Second of all how many turbolasers ISD have and how many of them, and how long were shooting at planet? Well, mentioned Species 8472 used nine shoots, compressed into single beam of energy to blow planet into pieces:

Nine bioships have destructive power of Death Star, moon-sized space station... So one of those ships have 1/9 of Death Star fire power, Cube can take two shoots from bioship before it blows up. So sorry, but if single ISD don't have 2/9 fire power of Death Star, then we have nothing to discuss. :) Also you must position ISD turbolasers to face enemy ship, and it take time... And turbolasers are pew pew weapons ;) - they fire short burst of energy, hitting different places instead of one beam of energy focused on single spot. Most Trek weapons are beam weapons, focusing whole energy on single spot- and draining shields in this spot much faster:

Also Borg have special weapon designed to drain enemy shilds - TNG: Q who.

As for destruction of Taris, I was referring to this event because you were supporting your claims with Expanded universe, and KOTOR is part of expanded universe. :) I agree that 4 000 years is long time but not many things changed in this time in Galaxy far, far away... They still have very similar ships design, they still use turbolasers, hyperdrives, lightsabers, driods, pod racers etc. Were is this technological progress you talking about?

About Palpie mind raping Borg Queen - I wish him luck, she is part of Colective, she is constantly conected with billions of minds, so it's not Palpie versus Queen, it's Palpie versus her and few thousands assimilated civilisations. That suggest that Palpie is the one who will get rapped in this scenario. Also Force influence only weak minded.

Stormtroopers against Borg drones... Drones that can beam themselves everywhere, have force fields, can adapt to enemy fire, can turn enemies into friends by infecting them with nanoprobes, and have supersthengh versus stormtroopers who have problems dealing with farm boy, smuggler, Wookie and alderaanian princess... Yes, I see how drones are shaking in their boots... ;)

And yes, yes EU Palpie could solo, he can this, he can that... It's why EU is absurd - if Empire was so powerfull as EU described it, it would never loose against bunch of underequipped, untrained Rebels.

Darth vader just force destroys them all, according to the comics, as well as novels, vaders force output is substancially higher then he showed in the films. i would like to see the borg cube shields deflect the f***ing force. let alone a lightsaber, force lightning, and the entire empire starfleet, and storm troopers, plus the emperor, and probably star killer.

@Picard said:

Sorry, but what you are seeing is absurd. First of all, apparently you don't know what assimilation is. It's not about assimilating single ship or space staction, it is about possessing whole knowledge and having access to whole technology of assimilated race, it's about knowing everything about your enemy - moment when Borg will start assimilating Empire technology, will be beginning of end of Empire. Now Collective will possess all imperial technology, and knowledge how to defend against it. As you see it's not about taking over some ship, it's about ship's technollgy - this is something that Borg can consume and use, merging their own technology with Empire technology. So any advantage that Empire may have, will be gone... And yes, Empire technollogy is archaic in comparison to technology in Star Trek, expecially when we talking about races like the Borg. Empire can auto-regenerate their ships? ISD can function normally even if 80% of the vessel has been destroyed? Empire have beaming technology? Empire can assimilate other races and technologies? Empire can adapt to enemy weapons? ISD is a ships that literally thinks what it wants to do and it happens? No, ISD is a ship with turrets crewed by humans with human reaction time... But Empire is super duper advanced! :) When Empire will be able to do all the things that Borg can do, then you can talk about how advanced Empire technology is. But now, all you have is a few random numbers form technical manual or some wiki page, to describe how supposedly awesome Empire tech is. Sorry, I don't buy it, and even if I did Borg still have an edge - in episode VOY: Scropion II they developed a multikinetic neutronic mine, five million isoton yield. It was being said that an explosion that size could affect an entire star system, and that the shock wave will dispurse the nanoprobes over a radius of five light years. So you see I can play with numbers, too. :) Even if I accepted your numers and feats from Expanded universe, I still don't see how Empire could win this? For exemple, you said that some ISD changed surface of some planet into glass - first of all, it's hardly comparable with blowing planet into smithereens. Even Starfleet in XXIII century could end whole life on the planet, using single ship to do that -infamous Order 24- so is not that impressive. Second of all how many turbolasers ISD have and how many of them, and how long were shooting at planet? Well, mentioned Species 8472 used nine shoots, compressed into single beam of energy to blow planet into pieces:

Nine bioships have destructive power of Death Star, moon-sized space station... So one of those ships have 1/9 of Death Star fire power, Cube can take two shoots from bioship before it blows up. So sorry, but if single ISD don't have 2/9 fire power of Death Star, then we don't have nothing to discuss. :) Also you must position ISD turbolasers to face enemy ship, and it take time... And turbolasers are pew pew weapons ;) - they fire short burst of energy, hitting different places instead of one beam of energy focused on single spot. Most Trek weapons are beam weapons, focusing whole energy on single spot- and draining shields in this spot much faster:

Also Borg have special weapon designed to drain enemy shilds - TNG: Q who.

As for destruction of Taris, I was referring to this event because you were supporting your claims with Expanded universe, and KOTOR is part of expanded universe. :) I agree that 4 000 years is long time but not many things changed in this time in Galaxy far, far away... They still have very similar ships design, they still use turbolasers, hyperdrives, lightsabers, driods, pod racers etc. Were is this technological progress you talking about?

About Palpie mind raping Borg Queen - I wish him luck, she is part of Colective, she is constantly conected with billions of minds, so it's not Palpie versus Queen, it's Palpie versus her and few thousands assimilated civilisations. That suggest that Palpie is the one who will get rapped in this scenario. Also Force influence only weak minded.

Stormtroopers against Borg drones... Drones that can beam themselves everywhere, have force fields, can adapt to enemy fire, can turn enemies into friends by infecting them with nanoprobes, and have supersthengh versus stormtroopers who have problems dealing with farm boy, smuggler, Wookie and alderaanian princess... Yes, I see how drones are shaking in their boots... ;)

And yes, yes EU Palpie could solo, he can this, he can that... It's why EU is absurd - if Empire was so powerfull as EU described it, it would never loose against bunch of underequipped, untrained Rebels.

Nice arguements.

@deadpoolwins:) said:

Darth vader just force destroys them all, according to the comics, as well as novels, vaders force output is substancially higher then he showed in the films. i would like to see the borg cube shields deflect the f***ing force. let alone a lightsaber, force lightning, and the entire empire starfleet, and storm troopers, plus the emperor, and probably star killer.

Oooo, I'm curious why Vader never displayed those awsome powers in the movies, and why powerfull Empire loose war against Rebels? Stromtroopers? Yes, they are great: :)

@Jeronimo: thanks :)

Picard, i tip my hat to you. You know your trek and I couldn't have said those points better myself. (Plus you saved the trouble of a Big post for me) LONG LIVE THE BORG!

I still like my idea of darth vader becoming another Locutus.

Darth Vader never force destoryed a large number of ships. Palpatine on the other hands has but given the number of Borgs, a force storm here or there is not going to turn the tide that much.

Also is he really implying that Darth Vader is going to try to take down ships by hitting them with lightsabers and firing force lightning because that sounds absurd to me. I also don't remember any Jedi or Sith being able to breathe in Space.

I think the potential of the Imperial Empire has remained largely unrevealed. They control the whole galaxy whereas the Borg controls a small part of another galaxy.

In an all out war where both sides know there is a war I think the Empire would demolish the Borg.

The Empire will move faster and more ruthlessly than the Borg are capable of.

@HammerTron said:

I think the potential of the Imperial Empire has remained largely unrevealed. They control the whole galaxy whereas the Borg controls a small part of another galaxy.

In an all out war where both sides know there is a war I think the Empire would demolish the Borg.

The Empire will move faster and more ruthlessly than the Borg are capable of.

The empire controls the whole galaxy because there's fewer tough enemies in Star Wars. In Trek there's lots of highly advanced civilizations for the Borg to deal with.

@WillPayton: The Empire defeared all their tough enemies in their own galaxy proving that they are the toughest force there. The Borg has not proven to be the toughest force in their own galaxy yet.

I wonder if the Borg could become immune to the Force overall after a single attack... (and please, no Vong analogies...)

@JediXMan said:

I wonder if the Borg could become immune to the Force overall after a single attack... (and please, no Vong analogies...)

Not sure but I be more worried about the Borg catching a force user and integrating that into the borg army.

@HammerTron said:

@WillPayton: The Empire defeared all their tough enemies in their own galaxy proving that they are the toughest force there. The Borg has not proven to be the toughest force in their own galaxy yet.

It doesnt matter whether the Borg are the toughest force in their galaxy or not. That has nothing to do with this fight.

I'm just giving a reason for why the Borg dont control the galaxy. Another reason is that they're relatively new to the Federation's part of space, whereas the Empire has existed for a long time, giving them time to expand to the rest of the galaxy.

In any case, the Borg would obliterate the Empire.

@WillPayton said:

@HammerTron said:

@WillPayton: The Empire defeared all their tough enemies in their own galaxy proving that they are the toughest force there. The Borg has not proven to be the toughest force in their own galaxy yet.

It doesnt matter whether the Borg are the toughest force in their galaxy or not. That has nothing to do with this fight.

I'm just giving a reason for why the Borg dont control the galaxy. Another reason is that they're relatively new to the Federation's part of space, whereas the Empire has existed for a long time, giving them time to expand to the rest of the galaxy.

In any case, the Borg would obliterate the Empire.

What a load of absurd rubbish.

The Borg simply don't have the firepower, the resources, the ships and the planets to fight the Empire. The Empire is a galactic spanning civilisation whose dominant species have been capable of interstellar travel for tens of thousands of years. The Borg cannot even defeat the Federation, a measly collection of 150 member planets. They got bitchslapped by Species 8472 and were within weeks of being eradicated, the same species who fled like cowards after only losing a dozen or so ships. Would you like to propose how they are going to obliterate the Empire when their FTL travel is far inferior, where they would not be able to withstand their firepower? People keep on mentioning the Rebel Alliance but they are irrelevant to this discussion. In fact, if you were really going to take them into account, then they'd ally with the Empire because there's an external threat who want to turn every being into an unthinking, unfeeling cyborgs. Imagine that, an entire galaxy united against the Borg. The same collective who run their ships in a straight line into enemy forces with absolutely no tactical foresight, and got their asses kicked by an alien species who they couldn't adapt to because their firepower was just so overwhelming. Well, that's what facing the Empire will be like, only much more ruthless.

I'm completely dumbstruck that no one has bothered to pull you up with such stupid posts like this, like as if it'd be some kind of foregone conclusion. What complete and utter wank. Yes, it's wank. Another proponent of the Borg's no-limits fallacy in play I see. And you fail to mention the only reason that the Borg was relatively new to Federation space - it's not that they were expanding at such a rate, it was the work of an omnipotent being. Yes, the reason they're new there is not because of their own conquests, but because of a godlike being (that being Q). The Empire didn't need someone like Q giving them incentive.

Federation ships are able to damage Borg cubes, even defeat them on numerous occasions, but somehow a galactic spanning civilisation that has:

- Thousands and thousands of years of a technological gap between them and the Federation.

- Superior firepower and speed

- The sheer industrial capacity... take note of the 2nd death star that was almost built, taking under a year, done in secret with CIVILIAN contractors.

And you're telling us the Empire doesn't stand a chance? What a joke. You're hilarious. It would fry Data's logical circuits calculating that!

Also, there are quite a few posts - mostly from Picard - which I will most gladly discuss and pick apart, bit by bit. So many logical holes and false assumptions, that I would have sworn that this person has little idea about the SW universe. But I will do it in one mega post, soon, after I get some sleep. But here's something to chew on in the meantime - you can't really say Trek (Federation) technology exceeds that of the Empire, when a privately owned patrol vessel, Slave I, outclasses the Enterprise from TNG series. I will post more on this later.

Transphasic Torpedoes = Instant Victory. Transphasic Torpedoes go out of phase with normal space/time and this cannot be stopped by armor, shields, or countermeasures unless you have shielding that extends out of normal space/time. The Empire does not have access to technology that would allow them to defend against this type of weapon.

I wanted to add pictures, but it doesn't appear to have worked. Any ideas?

@DedmanWalkin said:

Transphasic Torpedoes = Instant Victory. Transphasic Torpedoes go out of phase with normal space/time and this cannot be stopped by armor, shields, or countermeasures unless you have shielding that extends out of normal space/time. The Empire does not have access to technology that would allow them to defend against this type of weapon.

Um... neither do the Borg. That's futureFed only.

@CadenceV2: Borg cubes measure three kilometers on one side. That's roughly twice the length of a star destroyer and many times its volume. They are most certainly not outclassed size-wise (irrelevant as that may be).

@CadenceV2 said:

@AtPhantom: I never said anything about Borg Cube Sizes... anywhere compared to SDs. I said Federation Ships. They are tiny with only few Weapon Ports and Weapons for that Matter. A SD is litteraly covered in Turbo Lasers, Ion Cannons, and even Missils. They are Larger and are covered with Weapons. There Size means alot cause they have ALOT of high power Weapons. They probaly have as much Fire Power as 10 Federation Ships Combined. They also Have Tie Fighters of Various Types, they simply outclass Fed Ships and IMO shoud match any Borg Ship. Thats my point.

You have no point. This isn't Federation vs the Empire. This is Borg vs the Empire. The size of Federation vessels is irrelevant given how little a threat they are to Borg ships.

More to the point, size in general is irrelevant. You should be looking at the potency of their weapons, not their number relative to the size of the ship.

The size of the ships is irrelevant. Even in TOS, it was stated that the Enterprise had enough firepower to destroy a continent. By the time of TNG ships like the Galaxy class Enterprise had a lot more firepower. They didnt need hundreds of weapons all over because the phasers and photon torpedoes were so devastating. And, compared to that, the Borg Cubes and other ships were even more powerful. Add in the ability to assimilate, adapt shields to weapons, and tech like transporters, and the Borg win. All those Empire ships will simply be turned into Borg assets. Planets that resist will be assimilated as well, or destroyed from space with a few shots.

The Empire will have some success early on, but their weapons werent able to change frequencies like those of Starfleet, which is what allowed them to have more success against the Borg. Remember the Borg would adapt their shields very quickly to weapons, and once they adapted they were basically immune. That's what'd happen to the Empire... the Borg would quickly adapt their shields to be immune to the weapons of the Empire.