The Big Baddies(Mephisto and Thanos) Vs. The Skyfathers(Zeus and Odin)

Mephisto and Thanos:

Zeus and Odin:

The Rules:

• Morals Off/Bloodlust.
• Neutral Dimension
  
• Random Encounter.
• No Outside Help.
• Standard Power-Levels, but this is Cates/Aaron Mephisto.
• Fight to the Death or KO.

LOCATION:

@krleavenger@kevd4wg@diarrhearegatta: Thoughts?

Why not at least give team 1 knowledge or prep?

I would like to say team two due to Thanos being a particularly weak link in comparison to everyone else here, but I'm not quite sure. Depends if Odin can beat Mephisto, which I'm sure he can based on what I've seen outta him.

but this is Cates/Aaron Mephisto

Any reason why Mephisto doesn't solo all 3 of them then LOL? Didn't he like dwarf Zarathos in power and was like way more powerful than the likes of Dormammu and even goddam Shuma Gorath? Under normal circumstances tho, Skyfather duo should win in one extremely one-sided fight. I know Zeus lacks feats but he is incredibly hyped up. He was stated to be equal to Odin, one of his bios claim he is superior to Odin actually, we saw him matching Odin in like one vague scan, and while he was amped by Chaos King when he defeated Galactus in Chaos War, Greg Pak still stated that that feat is still partially related to Zeus' power itself.

So while he is not necessarily on Galactus' level, he should still be incredibly powerful even by Skyfather standards. And he is more powerful than Pluto who is stronger than Hela so I guess that seals the deal (not really, but he is hyped so much, I don't think claiming Zeus is Odin level is flawed statement). Thanos is honestly a weak link here. I think people overrate him a bit. He matched Odin for few moments, and afterwards, he was just tanking his most powerful attacks, and he didn't even care. But the thing is, there is nothing to suggest that Thanos was gonna win that fight. While Thanos didn't care about attacks, he still couldn't do anything to Odin himself.

Thanos like barely came close to Odin, and when he grabbed Gungnir, Odin propelled him backwards. And even when Thanos had a chance to attack Odin, his direct blow didn't even stagger Odin, and he partially staggered him with energy attacks. So even if we were to say that they were evenly matched strength and durability wise, Odin's energy attacks were clearly superior, and if they were to continue the fight, I'm pretty sure Odin would win eventually with a lot of effort, because it was pretty obvious that Thanos was a match for him, at least a little bit. However, if Odin used his hax like he did against Surtur for example, Thanos would probably get obliterated.

And because of that hax, Thanos can't really do much against Odin, and by the same token, Zeus too (based on implied power).

@krleavenger: Any reason why Mephisto doesn't solo all 3 of them then LOL? Didn't he like dwarf Zarathos in power and was like way more powerful than the likes of Dormammu and even goddam Shuma Gorath?

Yeah, but the second isn't like most people make it be. Mephisto defeated them in a free-for-all battle while also using their armies, which means that depending on who fought who for the most time, they would already be weakened enough for Mephy to finish them off and BFR all of them like he did. Really, Mephisto just needed to find a good strategy to survive long enough until the other combatants can't fight anymore.

And it's clear that Dormammu and Shuma were weakened by the battle as they pretty much said as so(At least Dormmy said).

@krleavenger: One question though, isn't Zuras from the Eternals supposedly the equal of Zeus according to the Handbooks? And isn't Thanos superior to Zuras? And unlike Odin from what I have seen, Zeus doesn't have much hax at his disposal.

Also, it may be only my personal opinion, but I believe that Thanos(Much like Mephisto) seems to be portrayed as more impressive than was before since Cates took over. Like, both of them are now even part of a cosmic table where the members are the most powerful beings in the universe in Falcon#2, alongside the likes of cosmic entities like Mistress Death and beings such as Molecule Man. That definitely seems an improvement from before.

Zeus has no business being here.

What is Thanos doing here lol hes not fit to be in skyfather matches. He has the durabilty to take a few hits(but no more) but he’s not putting down any skyfather. Unless Cates Mephisto is super OP, Odin should solo

So it depends on how you rank Thanos, if he is actually galaxy level in durability (power scaling from skyfathers) then I don't see why he isn't a match for Zeus. Who doesn't have the same feats as Odin who Thanos stood up to. We have actually seen Odin use hax. I don't place Zeus close to Odin. But Thanos level is debatable since one has showings and other has statements. Personally for me, showings >> statements. Even from guidebooks. Thanos also has done against Galactus quite well for example, with all this considered I would actually put Thanos near to Odin at least as much as Zeus.

But I am thinking this fight might be decided with who wins between Mephisto and Odin.

Team 2 barely.

Maybe Skyfathers by a small margin IMO

Leaning towards Zeus and Odin.

@kevd4wg said:

This is actually Cates and Aaron Mephisto, who's considerably more powerful than the standard one. Being ranked as one of the most powerful beings in the universe, separating Johnny Blaze from Zarathos with a single word and defeating them by BFR'ing both, creating the first Ghost Rider and arguably the Spirit of Vengeance itself(Who's one of the most powerful members of the Avengers 1,000,000 BC per the own comic alongside a younger Odin and the first Phoenix Host), turning all the Avengers into his personal army of Ghost Riders(Doctor Strange, Captain Marvel, Jane Thor, Black Panther, Falcon and Hawkeye) and some other things.

@andromeda101: What the hell? Why is Mephisto so OP now. Btw what do you think is Mephistos consistent level of power since he fluctuates so much?

@kevd4wg: Stan Lee used to see Mephisto as the "Ultimate Embodiment of Evil" back in the old days, hence why had him have feats like stalemating Galactus during Silver Surfer: Judgment Day. I guess those two decide to put him in the same spotlight.

No, I don't and that's quite a funny question because only a few weeks before the Damnation event even started and Mephisto was written so powerful by Donny Cates...He had his ass stomped by a depowered Strange and Doctor Doom. So yeah, Mephy is at a higher pedestal when handled by them.

You act like that didn't have enormous amounts of context surrounding it

@decaf_wizard said:

And it did, I know Galactus was hungry because Surfer kept him from eating any planets before the fight and that obviously happened in Hell given Mephy both the territory-advantage and a power-boost, but that's beside the point. To a character who struggled or was defeated by the likes of Alejandra, Thor, his own creation Blackheart and even Surfer already in Hell...Fighting someone such as Galactus, even though was a weakened one, in a battle so intense that threatened to destroy both his dimension and the entire mainstream one isn't what I would call comparable to his other showings against the characters I mentioned.

I mean Mephisto is just insanely inconsistant. He is one of those guys who's power depends on who is writing him rather than a consistant depiction. Thats how its been with him forever, sort of like Spectre in that regard

You're funny.

@decaf_wizard said:

And that's exactly why I specified in this thread that is Mephisto as written by Aaron/Cates. :P

Because quite frankly, I don't think there would be room for much debate otherwise since Mephisto himself admitted back in Journey into Mytsery#627 that would be lunacy for him to take on Odin's brother, Cul...Someone the All-Father already defeated on his younger days. There's also Odin nullifying Mephisto's contract back in Thunderstrike#15, something even fricking Frigga has replicated as well. I wouldn't say it's fair if was normal Mephisto, but since it's not, none of those things can be applicated here given the thread's rules.

@kirkseven said:

Should I take that as a compliment?

@doctordamn: No problem.

Currently? It depends on the writer like I said above, but if is in general, then maybe a 4. I don't think even under Cates or Aaron, Mephisto is so much above those characters.

P.S: Just so you know tho, but Dormammu doesn't really become more powerful in his realm, only clarifying that.

Netrual unerverse is key here. Besides some inconsitancy issues. The one real flaw of mephisto is that he can be sent back to his own realam. It takes some powefull magic or some artifact but skyfathers are far far above dr strange who has done this before. Thanos as said dosnt belong. Tron juggs would be a better fit as bloodlust is gonna work agaist odin here

I would tag @pipxeroth to clear up misconceptions about Trion Juggernaut, because its not really "bloodlusted"

@decaf_wizard: i actualy ment it as in a bloodlusted odien is likly to engage in melee combat with jugs. Hard to see odin backing down from juggs who you know will challenge him to a fight. Odin would need to put his pride aside and bfr jugs. Noone beats jugs hand to hand. (Zarthos might i would kill to see that fight)

@andromeda101

Yeah, but the second isn't like most people make it be. Mephisto defeated them in a free-for-all battle while also using their armies, which means that depending on who fought who for the most time, they would already be weakened enough for Mephy to finish them off and BFR all of them like he did. Really, Mephisto just needed to find a good strategy to survive long enough until the other combatants can't fight anymore.

And it's clear that Dormammu and Shuma were weakened by the battle as they pretty much said as so(At least Dormmy said).

I see. Thanks for info.

One question though, isn't Zuras from the Eternals supposedly the equal of Zeus according to the Handbooks? And isn't Thanos superior to Zuras? And unlike Odin from what I have seen, Zeus doesn't have much hax at his disposal.

Thanos should be superior to Zuras but I think Zeus was hyped up to be Odin's equal more so. I think I've seen Zeus do some space warping shit but I don't remember the exact context or issue number so I'll stop here. Regardless, he should be more than enough to at least fight Thanos and either put him down after a really long and hard fight, or just stalemate him long enough for Odin to beat Mephisto. I mean, if we are not gonna take Zeus' hype into consideration, he shouldn't even be used here then.

Also, it may be only my personal opinion, but I believe that Thanos(Much like Mephisto) seems to be portrayed as more impressive than was before since Cates took over. Like, both of them are now even part of a cosmic table where the members are the most powerful beings in the universe in Falcon#2, alongside the likes of cosmic entities like Mistress Death and beings such as Molecule Man. That definitely seems an improvement from before.

Thanos is a big part of Hierarchy because of his knowledge, intelligence and overall capability to do anything he wants to do because of it. It has already been implied that Thanos' most powerful asset is his mind, which is true if you take a look at everything he accomplished and how he did it. His mindset, intellect and understanding of the Universe makes him a threat to all of creation because of that alone. I mean, look at Epoch for example. She is an Abstract entity and pretty high up on the hierarchy. But she was helpless against Silver Surfer and Stardust in Fantastic Four Vol. 1 #545-546, and while they are both classified as Universal threats by Xandar's files, they are both Multi Planet level when it comes to destructive capabilities at best.

I don't think simply being high up on hierarchy means you are on par with them pure power wise unless it is flat out stated. And I'm pretty sure Thanos was Avatar of Death and incredibly powerful one, and that status, plus his knowledge, allowed him to "destroy" Cancerverse and end the threat of the Old Ones, something Shi'Ar fleets, Galactus and entire Host of Celestials couldn't do. And he didn't do that with his raw power but simply because of how capable he is. And if you want to be technical about it, Thanos' power was complimented before. In Thanos Annual by Starlin, it was implied that Thanos will eventually be somewhere in the middle of this hierarchy, and "will" isn't irrelevant here because he was talking to past/younger version of himself.

Or even if we look way back when, into pages of Fantastic Four Annual Vol. 1 #23, where Kubik was exploring the cosmos with Kosmos, and when Kubik was giving descriptions of several aspects of the Universe. When he got into "abyss of intergalactic space" and started bringing "evil ones", great threats to the Universe, Thanos was one of the people that was brought up. Which means a lot given the fact that we've seen Hell-Lords like Mephisto and Satannish there, as well as Fear Lords like Dweller in Darkness and D'Spayre, and even goddamn Chthon and Shuma-Gorath out of all people. And Thanos was like in the middle. And this was Pre-Infinity Gauntlet.

And I know Kubik later stated that they all serve Death in one way or another, but there is one bio from Thanos that I can't find right now that states that there are not a lot of beings who can match Thanos simply because he serves Death. And again, him serving Death allowed him to bring the end to Cancerverse. Overall, Thanos may be a bit more hyped these days, but we should also consider the fact that neither Aaron or Cates are that familiar with power levels (or at least don't care about them). So I don't think Thanos is that much more hyped. He always had a lot of implied power, but he has yet to do something as impressive and quantifiable as, let's say, destroying the Sun for example (unless he did it in more modern comics and I didn't know that).

It's kinda funny how I argue against Thanos here even tho I'm such a huge fan of the character, but I don't think he is beating top tier Skyfathers.

@krleavenger: You're welcome about the explanation and thanks for yours, but I'm not sure if the scan from Fantastic Four Annual Vol.1 #23 is similar in context to the one from Falcon#2, because the former seems to be restricted to a more specific category than power in general. Like, Mephisto(Who was standing alongside Thanos in both comics) time and time again brought up the attention of cosmic entities such as the Living Tribunal itself back in Mephisto Vs.#4:

But not because he's powerful enough to do such thing on his own but more like in the way you described as Thanos that his intellect makes him a big threat. In the table with the other cosmic entities, while I agree it doesn't mean they're all around the same or close, Blackheart did mention it was all the most powerful beings in the universe and if an interdimensional being such as Mephisto was there, makes you wonder why not even Odin was as well since according to the Book of the Vishanti, he's in the same category as Mephy. Still, fair enough about the rest.

Of course!

Why is Thanos here? He gets one shotted like a kid.

@andromeda101:

Zeus was totally meant to be equal to Zuras as the Eternals Saga contextualizes their intertwined histories. But I'm sure arguments can/will be made in comparison.

It's also possible that Thanos can be superior to Zuras in certain categories such as strength and maybe durability. I believe Herc surpasses Zeus in (lifting) strength IIRC, so yeah I think its definitely possible for Thanos with all his retcons/amps to be superior to Zuras.

Regarding Mephisto, Marvel has always had Mephy involved in cosmic affairs. I think Mephisto is regarded as Marvels most pre-eminent demon, not due to power per se, but more because of his superior intellect(as mentioned) as well as his uncanny ability of deceit...

*Edit

On that note, think I'll roll with the Baddies...

@rebuildofkojima: What are you talking about? He already fought against extremely pissed off Odin for several pages as well as beings way more powerful than Odin, and wasn't coming close to getting one-shotted.

@andromeda101: Well, I think we mostly agree on that but I'm still not quite sure why your scan is any different than my scan.

@cosmic_reign: Thanks for the input and yeah, I agree with mostly everything you said.

Because like I said, I think mine is to a larger category while yours to a more specific one delimited by Kubik. In the sense that it could be argued the implications of why someone like Odin and Zeus himself were left out of the cosmic table, which I don't see the same with the later.

@andromeda101: I guess.

@andromeda101: pls no.

I'll leave you alone as per rens request.

@kirkseven: Relax, I'm not serious. Lol.

I also know how it feels to be on the death row, heh.

@krleavenger: I know it's a 3 day old post, but as for this part

I don't think simply being high up on hierarchy means you are on par with them pure power wise unless it is flat out stated. And I'm pretty sure Thanos was Avatar of Death and incredibly powerful one, and that status, plus his knowledge, allowed him to "destroy" Cancerverse and end the threat of the Old Ones, something Shi'Ar fleets, Galactus and entire Host of Celestials couldn't do. And he didn't do that with his raw power but simply because of how capable he is. And if you want to be technical about it, Thanos' power was complimented before. In Thanos Annual by Starlin, it was implied that Thanos will eventually be somewhere in the middle of this hierarchy, and "will" isn't irrelevant here because he was talking to past/younger version of himself.

I don't know if you've read Infinity Siblings yet, but if you have do you think this could be referencing Death Thanos?

@kevd4wg: Like I said, I'm not reading anything ongoing/recent, so I'm not sure what you are talking about exactly Kev.

@krleavenger: Ah ok, figured you might've at least tried Starlin's new stuff

Probably team two. Thanos would lose to either by himself. Mephisto could stalemate both Odin and Zeus 1 on 1, since the battle is outside his own realm, Mephisto's power is significantly reduced.

Team two wins.

Bumping this. Despite what said above, I think the latest comics clearly show now that Mephisto is operating at a different level than before(Unless his next appearance has him jobbing for the Champions, then I take back what I said) and Thanos also seems to be getting somewhat better from what I heard, so...

anyone know if mephisto has stopped time in the entire multiverse at any time?

Or which was his most impressive time stop?

Team 1, Mephisto MVP.

Thanos doesn't really belong here.