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#251 Posted by 20damon (6141 posts) - - Show Bio

@blackstaroblivion: Hulk's too strong. Thanos was using his shields i his fight vs Odin, he didn't want to face The Champion without them, Thanos is a durability MONSTER, but Odin was about to kill him on the next page of your series of scans when they interrupted the fight. Thanos would win, not a shred of doubt, IF this was an all out fight with all tricks involved because Thanos' biggest strength isn't his physicals, as massive as they are. This Hulk's just too much of a monsters in pure h2h.

Power gemmed Thor bossed him around until Thanos used a plot device to put him down. Hulk fought Bi-Beast and Wendigo amped to thousandfold strength, Bi-Beast has held Thor in place on strength alone and got his ass whooped by this Hulk. Granted, we have not seen the limits of Worldbreaker's strength or durability, but we have seen what he can casually or even involuntarily do due to his plot high strength levels. Thanos will not win -this- fight, not pure h2h.

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#252 Posted by EliteMan737 (2917 posts) - - Show Bio

Thanos... Mismatch

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#253 Posted by IAmTheLaw (861 posts) - - Show Bio

World Breaker Hulk is simply too strong to lose in a H2H fight against anybody.

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#254 Edited by BlackStarOblivion (2051 posts) - - Show Bio

@20damon said:

Hulk's too strong.

Yeah? All that and $6 buck will get you a vanilla latte at the local coffee cart too.

Show me scans. All you've done is talk so far.

20damon said:

Thanos is a durability MONSTER, but Odin was about to kill him on the next page of your series of scans when they interrupted the fight.

Why misrepresent the truth?

My scans did not show that at all.

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It showed Odin dishing out devastating energy strikes....Odin even thought he'd beaten the Titan at this point.

He didn't

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In fact, he got up and was ready to fight some more.

20damon said:

Thanos would win, not a shred of doubt, IF this was an all out fight with all tricks involved because Thanos' biggest strength isn't his physicals, as massive as they are. This Hulk's just too much of a monsters in pure h2h.

And yet again, not a single scan to back up your claims.

20damon said:

Power gemmed Thor bossed him around until Thanos used a plot device to put him down.

Baloney. They traded blows on even footing when Thor had the power gem. And in fact, before Thanos used said plot device to place the Thunder God in stasis, he said this:

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Wow. A power gem enhanced Thor really....uhm....yeah. And what does power gem Thor have to do with our conversation?

20damon said:

Hulk fought Bi-Beast and Wendigo amped to thousandfold strength, Bi-Beast has held Thor in place on strength alone and got his ass whooped by this Hulk.

Hulk fought a wish amped Bi Beast and Wendigo in a plot driven book series of books, "Heart of the Monster".

Hulk and Red She Hulk were also amped in that fight.

But for sake of argument, let's suppose that that was really WBH's true level of power in that book. What was the result? His greatest feat in that book?

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A planet busting feat? Really? Is that what you're referring to because, uhmm....

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Oh and uhmmm....

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Oh right and uhhmmm.....

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But...you would have me believe Hulk can dish more punishment than a star going nova....tanking shots from Odin, who wasn't holding back much...if at all.....and a black hole that obliterated everything within a two light year radius?

Really?

Hmmmm.

20damon said:

Granted, we have not seen the limits of Worldbreaker's strength or durability

Yeah. We have. I'll post it again:

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Yes, by scans, we have the limits of WBH's power (and he was amped....).

A planet busting feat. Not doing much to the Mad Titan.

20damon said:

but we have seen what he can casually or even involuntarily do due to his plot high strength levels. Thanos will not win -this- fight, not pure h2h.

Yeah, you can speculate all day.

Show me the feats or y'know....bow out of the conversation.

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#255 Posted by BreakingThrones (1104 posts) - - Show Bio

This is a complete mismatch Thanos stomps.

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#256 Edited by CitizenSentry (12121 posts) - - Show Bio

@iknowwhoyouare said:

No you didn't otherwise you'd realize this is H2H.

I'm fully aware of that.

Feats to support your notion.

@citizensentry said:
iknowwhoyouare said:

World Breaker Hulk stomps in H2H

No. Hulk wins, but there is no way in Hell that WBH stomps.

Thanos has taken on Odin before...and pissed Odin off because he wouldn't go down.

How does Hulk win?

Constant Planet busting punches....

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#257 Edited by Thedailybagel (12911 posts) - - Show Bio

@blackstaroblivion: stop spreading this BS that hulk was somehow amped. Post exactly where it said that he was amped or stop going on about it.

Friendly hint: it's doesn't say that, anywhere, at all.

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#258 Posted by CitizenSentry (12121 posts) - - Show Bio

@blackstaroblivion: stop spreading this BS that hulk was somehow amped. Post exactly where it said that he was amped or stop going on about it.

Friendly hint: it's doesn't say that, anywhere, at all.

What? hahahaha.

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#259 Posted by CalvinRod (483 posts) - - Show Bio

Thanos. It takes physical and strategic advantage.
Thanos ftw.

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#260 Posted by CitizenSentry (12121 posts) - - Show Bio

@calvinr said:

Thanos. It takes physical and strategic advantage.

Thanos ftw.

What is strategic about a H2H fight?

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#261 Posted by Pipxeroth (9393 posts) - - Show Bio

@thedailybagel: I think he's talking about the 80 or so Gamma Bombs they ate before fighting.

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#262 Posted by Thedailybagel (12911 posts) - - Show Bio

@pipxeroth: they didn't eat them until right at the end after hulk had wrecked the planet multiple times.

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#263 Posted by CalvinRod (483 posts) - - Show Bio

@calvinr said:

Thanos. It takes physical and strategic advantage.

Thanos ftw.

What is strategic about a H2H fight?

Thanos vs Tryco Slatterus. He demonstrated a certain strategy(Although this is justified to the use of the gem.).
Many fighters if prepare for their fights. But sometimes they need to reinvent itself in a given combat(in time real). I see it as a strategy.

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#264 Posted by CitizenSentry (12121 posts) - - Show Bio

@calvinr said:
@citizensentry said:
@calvinr said:

Thanos. It takes physical and strategic advantage.

Thanos ftw.

What is strategic about a H2H fight?

Thanos vs Tryco Slatterus. He demonstrated a certain strategy(Although this is justified to the use of the gem.).

Many fighters if prepare for their fights. But sometimes they need to reinvent itself in a given combat(in time real). I see it as a strategy.

OP didn't say there was prep, therefore no prep.

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#265 Posted by CalvinRod (483 posts) - - Show Bio
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#266 Posted by CitizenSentry (12121 posts) - - Show Bio

@calvinr said:

@citizensentry: You did not understand my comment.

How the hell can anyone understand this:

Many fighters if prepare for their fights But sometimes they need to reinvent itself in a given combat(in time real).

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#268 Posted by CalvinRod (483 posts) - - Show Bio

@calvinr said:

@citizensentry: You did not understand my comment.

How the hell can anyone understand this:

Many fighters if prepare for their fights But sometimes they need to reinvent itself in a given combat(in time real).

On second thought, it was a bad example.

Just to clarify. Don't you think that strategy in a H2H fight is important?

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#269 Posted by CitizenSentry (12121 posts) - - Show Bio

@calvinr said:
@citizensentry said:
@calvinr said:

@citizensentry: You did not understand my comment.

How the hell can anyone understand this:

Many fighters if prepare for their fights But sometimes they need to reinvent itself in a given combat(in time real).

On second thought, it was a bad example.

Just to clarify. Don't you think that strategy in a H2H fight is important?

It depends. only people that have a sound strategic mind can strategize (Which Thanos has). But you can't really have a strategy against someone who is unpredictable (Which Hulk is).

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#270 Posted by MichaelJulius (864 posts) - - Show Bio

Oops my bad. Still doesn't change my answer though. Just that Surfer is generally considered to be the victor in the WBH vs Surfer debate...and Thanos kinda giggles at Surfer.

@michaeljulius: world breaker hulk never touched an asteroid, that was grey hulk. World breaker hulk broke a planet and cracked it's two moons by colliding with red she hulk and was have a great time whikst doing it.

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#271 Posted by BlackStarOblivion (2051 posts) - - Show Bio

@blackstaroblivion said:
@iknowwhoyouare said:

No you didn't otherwise you'd realize this is H2H.

I'm fully aware of that.

Feats to support your notion.

@citizensentry said:
iknowwhoyouare said:

World Breaker Hulk stomps in H2H

No. Hulk wins, but there is no way in Hell that WBH stomps.

Thanos has taken on Odin before...and pissed Odin off because he wouldn't go down.

How does Hulk win?

Constant Planet busting punches....

Even if that were true....which it really isn't....how does that have any impact on Thanos who tanks supernovas?

Unless your argument is that a planet busting punch is greater than the total energy expended by a star exploding?

You're dreaming.

Hulk gets smoked.

blackstaroblivion: stop spreading this BS that hulk was somehow amped.

I don't have to.

Was there an explicit statement that Red She Hulk was amped by her wish? Show me that?

Oh, right, you can't because it's not there. Yet, she was spoken of as being equally powerful to WB Hulk in that very book:

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The scan above says Red She Hulk was just as powerful as WB Hulk.

Show me in that book where it was explicitly stated that RSH asked to be equal to WB Hulk in power.

Right. Thanks for stopping by.

So, far all you guys have done is try and spin Hulk throwing planet busting feats until Thanos presumably crumbles.

You guys...every single one of you guys....are dreaming.

Thanos is Marvel's original planet buster. And he has tanked far, far worse than planet busting strikes.

Even in H2H strictly, Thanos works WB Hulk over like it's his job.

Hey, but great talking to both of you. Really good talk.

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#272 Posted by Thedailybagel (12911 posts) - - Show Bio

@blackstaroblivion: yes, there was the whole thing implying that red she hulk was now stronger (in your own scan it says that) seeing as the issue prior to that (whilst she was splashed by the wishing well and had more energy than what she did in her fight with hulk) she got oneshotted by a laser from arm'cheddon, whereas world breaker hulk walked right through it and stomped him.

I can't even tell what your argument is. That because it doesn't explictly go "RED SHE HULK IS AMPED" hulk is somehow... Amped? I mean Jesus christ, hulk was running around making OTHER people stronger so they could actually fight him.

If you were to ask greg pak, do you think he'd say hulk was amped?

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#273 Posted by pooty (16236 posts) - - Show Bio

@blackstaroblivion: Thanos is Marvel's original planet buster. And he has tanked far, far worse than planet busting strikes.

Even in H2H strictly, Thanos works WB Hulk over like it's his job.

Thanos has a shared planet busting feat just as Hulk does. My point is both are ridiculously strong and durable but has Thanos showed the punching power to put this hulk down? So far it looks like a stalemate

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#274 Posted by BlackStarOblivion (2051 posts) - - Show Bio

@pooty said:

Thanos is Marvel's original planet buster. And he has tanked far, far worse than planet busting strikes.

Even in H2H strictly, Thanos works WB Hulk over like it's his job.

Thanos has a shared planet busting feat just as Hulk does. My point is both are ridiculously strong and durable but has Thanos showed the punching power to put this hulk down? So far it looks like a stalemate

The reason I disagree is because Thanos' margin for error is so much greater than Hulk's.

Does Hulk have feats for tanking supernova's? Tanking shots from Odin? Getting sucked into a black hole with few ill effects?

They do rock'em, sock'em robots....until one of them finally drops.

My money is all in on Thanos who's durability feats are much greater.

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#275 Edited by 20damon (6141 posts) - - Show Bio

@blackstaroblivion: Wow, you really do twist these scans to suit your argument don't you. Hehe, i'll have fun picking those apart when i get home, but i'll get a little headstart, you'll get the scans when i get home from work.

Thanos vs. Odin: You leave you the next page, Thanos is defeated although he did indeed surprise Odin with his durability. Thanos is there defeated but refuses to surrender, if you'd kindly deliver the next page of said scans, you'd see Odin about to strike the killing blow when the others interrupt him. But that wouldn't suit your argument so you decided to leave that out of the general context eh?

Thanos vs power gemmed Thor: Thanos got some hits in, they didn't scratch Thor though. You CONVENIENTLY left out that Pip the troll thought Thanos was about to be KILLED because of the beating he was taking. Again, a good durability feat, but Thanos WAS getting himself beaten up, and decided to grab a plot device to end the fight.

I can't really argue with you if you're just saying WB was amped in this story. The only part is when he grows in SIZE, not power, because of the gamma bombs absorbed, AT THE END. You can maintain the little fairy tale that he was amped but the fact that he showed this power before just takes your little attempted lie and crushes it to dust.

Now, let's dissect the next part of your attempted lowballing. Have we seen the Worldbreaker's limits? You say yes, we have. The fact is, we have indeed NOT. At no point did Hulk have any problems with any of his foes or anything in general he did in Heart of the Monster. You think his greatest feat is blowing up a planet, i say his greatest feat is nearly sinking the east coast of the US BY WALKING. As clearly stated by Amadeus Cho in the following screen, as you maintain Hulk is amped in this storyline, PLEASE, show us why he would need to get amped to level he has reached before, i'm dying to know. (Unless you just admit it is best to drop this ludicrous theory of yours, because, despite what you think, it actually takes away from your credibility in this argument, best to cut your losses on this one, but if you want to do me and other people arguing for Hulk a favor, please keep it up, it makes you sound pretty desperate)

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We can also look into his strength levels to at least TRY to find his limits. Hulk in Green Scar is pretty evenly matched with Thanos physically, how much stronger than Thor would you say he is? 1,5 times? 2 times stronger than regular Thor?

Well, let me show you someone capable to holding Thor. Let's be -generous- and assume that you need to be at least half as strong as someone to hold them so they can't break free easily (Probably need to be stronger, but i am being generous). Look at Bi-Beast holding Thor with him unable to break free with ease. Then look at Bi-Beast telling Wendigo that they were ampted to a THOUSANDFOLD their normal strength levels, (which I am inclined to believe, as he is programmed with the complete scientific knowledge of a hyper-advanced race, and I don;t suppose he'd lie to his own skull-brother, as that would earn him a lot of shit from the only person he doesn't hate and can never escape), and Hulk was still able to toss them around pretty easily.

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Against Wendigo and Bi-Beast amped a thousandfold, this shows some serious power, but naturally you're going to try and undermine that feat, hopefully with something as desperate as claiming Hulk was amped, which i hope you'll go with because you'll only show how weak your argument is ;)

Also, i donðt understand why you argued against Thanos being about to be killed by Odin, Thanos standing so long against Odin is a massive endurance feat, but it wasn't a pure hand to hand and THanos was using his shields and they're able to hold off a Galactus blast, so as durable as THanos is, let's not pretend his shields played no in that fight. Also, you and many others seem to think it some kind of embarassment that Thanos was losing to power gemmed Thor in hand to hand, to the point where Pip thought he must be about to get killed, such was the punishment he was taking. I don't see that as a low showing at all, but a massive endurance feat.

However, i personally consider the fact that Hulk is not only able to destroy a planet, which is a great feat in by itself, but the fact that he was unable to NOT destroy a continent just by moving around to be an obvious show that we haven't reven show him testing his limits, not even close. You're going to argue against that and that's okay. I -DO NOT- know this limits, it's all guessing, on my part AND yours. But again, i hope you come claiming you know his limitsbecause again, that'll make you look silly, since i suppose only Pak knows his true limits, we've yet to see them and we probably never will. We DO know however that Hulk's endurance and healing factor are directly related to his strength levels, whihc is completely off the charts in this form. Thanos has stated that the Hulk is not someone he wishes to fight, when he took on the Champion. Thanos was speaking of a MUCH weaker version of Hulk.

Noone is downplaying Thanos strength or durability. I'll even admit that i think Thanos would beat him in a legit fight where he had access to all his gadgets and tricks. But Thanos loses to this Hulk in a h2h or at worst for Hulk, a stalemate, because he is too durable for Thanos to put down. Thing is, we actually haven't seen THNAOS's limits when it comes to h2h because he's been hurt but never knocked out. We do know THanos has not shown enough striking pwer to put this Hulk down, but we do not know the limits of Thanos' physical durability or the Hulk's strength. At worst for Hulk, this is a stalemante

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#276 Posted by pooty (16236 posts) - - Show Bio

@blackstaroblivion: Thanos durability feats are greater then his physical output. Meaning he can take a beating. But can't dish out enough punishment to beat this Hulk. If both can take planet busting blows with no trouble. And their strongest blows are planet busting. Then neither can hurt the other

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#277 Edited by BlackStarOblivion (2051 posts) - - Show Bio

@20damon said:

Wow, you really do twist these scans to suit your argument don't you.

No.

No, in fact I don't.

Hehe, i'll have fun picking those apart when i get home,

And I have no doubt, you seriously think you will.

but i'll get a little headstart, you'll get the scans when i get home from work.

I'm breathless with anticipation.

Thanos vs. Odin: You leave you the next page, Thanos is defeated although he did indeed surprise Odin with his durability.

When did I say Odin didn't win? The scans were submitted as clear evidence of Thanos' durability. Go back; re read my post.

Thanos is there defeated but refuses to surrender, if you'd kindly deliver the next page of said scans, you'd see Odin about to strike the killing blow when the others interrupt him.

I have no doubt Odin would've won.

But that wasn't my point.

But that wouldn't suit your argument so you decided to leave that out of the general context eh?

No. Not really. I wasn't saying Thanos beats Odin.

I was saying Thanos' durability is well above what WB Hulk can bring to bear. By feats, Hulk has nothing, NADA....that shows he should even be in the same ring as Thanos.

Thanos vs power gemmed Thor: Thanos got some hits in, they didn't scratch Thor though. You CONVENIENTLY left out that Pip the troll thought Thanos was about to be KILLED because of the beating he was taking.

Which translates into this conversation....how again?

Thanos and Thor were on even footing in that fight. That's not a slight against Thanos.

Thor has planetary level strength feats. With the power gem....should place him on par with Thanos.

Again, a good durability feat, but Thanos WAS getting himself beaten up, and decided to grab a plot device to end the fight.

Yeah, in fact it was a good durability feat....but far from his best.

I fail to see what power gem enhanced Thor has to do with WB Hulk.

I can't really argue with you if you're just saying WB was amped in this story.

You're exactly right.

You can't.

The only part is when he grows in SIZE, not power, because of the gamma bombs absorbed, AT THE END. You can maintain the little fairy tale that he was amped but the fact that he showed this power before just takes your little attempted lie and crushes it to dust.

Oh, wow. I think I felt the heat in your comment.

Calm down. Why are you so excited?

In point of fact, it was Hulk's wish to fight and die, and fight again. Wendigo and Bi Beat were already powered up a 1000 x at that point.

So....how does Hulk beat not one...but two opponents....who are a 1000 x more powerful than they were previously, not to mention take a shot at Red She Hulk who was Hulk's equal in power at that point?

Really? Hulk wasn't amped?

In fact...he was...since his wish entailed destroying everyone on the planet he was with.

Again, there was no specific statement of Red She Hulk being amped to become WB Hulk's equal in power....there is no need to search for some explicit statement that Hulk was amped as well. It's clear he was at this point.

Now, let's dissect the next part of your attempted lowballing.

Is that what we've been doing? Discussing something.

I don't low ball. Ever. I go by each character's highest feats.

Have we seen the Worldbreaker's limits?

Yes. We have in fact. They're called feats.

And not one his show he has anything to offer Thanos but annoyance.

You say yes, we have. The fact is, we have indeed NOT.

Well....if you want to go on conjecture, okay then.

But the problem with your style of debate and mine is I actually go by what the feats show the character is clearly capable of. There should be something...anything at all...about WB Hulk's feats that show he can bring super nova level destruction, or wreak the same destructive power as a black hole....or....something....

But there isn't, is there?

At no point did Hulk have any problems with any of his foes or anything in general he did in Heart of the Monster. You think his greatest feat is blowing up a planet, i say his greatest feat is nearly sinking the east coast of the US BY WALKING.

....Well, then you just lost this argument. Sinking the eastern seaboard (which incidentally, could not happen with one stomp....).....

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As clearly stated by Amadeus Cho in the following screen, as you maintain Hulk is amped in this storyline, PLEASE, show us why he would need to get amped to level he has reached before, i'm dying to know.

The problem with your logic is that you are connecting the dots....in your mind....just doesn't work that way.

We need feats. Not conjecture.

(Unless you just admit it is best to drop this ludicrous theory of yours,

The only theorizing going on is yours. I've shown feats.

You're sharing a lot of ......conjecture.

because, despite what you think,

What I know.

What I know.

it actually takes away from your credibility in this argument,

Nah, man. It takes away from yours. You're saying that Hulk stepping on the eastern seaboard should be indicative of Hulk's ability to hurt Thanos somehow.

That's a HUGE step....that unfortunately for you, is not supported by feats.

best to cut your losses on this one, but if you want to do me and other people arguing for Hulk a favor, please keep it up, it makes you sound pretty desperate)

I see, is that what that is?

Hmph.

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We can also look into his strength levels to at least TRY to find his limits. Hulk in Green Scar is pretty evenly matched with Thanos physically, how much stronger than Thor would you say he is? 1,5 times? 2 times stronger than regular Thor?

How about....none of the above...or anything....

you say.

Well, let me show you someone capable to holding Thor. Let's be -generous- and assume

This is your first problem

You're doing a lot of assuming.

Please stop assuming.

that you need to be at least half as strong as someone to hold them so they can't break free easily (Probably need to be stronger, but i am being generous).

Not sure where you are going with this.....but you seem to be operation on suppositions here....and not feats that demonstrate what the character is actually capable of.

Look at Bi-Beast holding Thor with him unable to break free with ease.

Oh, I see. So that's Thor....maxed out and his top strength feat.

Yeah, no. Don't you think we should focus on Hulk?

Then look at Bi-Beast telling Wendigo that they were ampted to a THOUSANDFOLD their normal strength levels,

Yeah.

I see that. I mentioned it earlier in fact.

(which I am inclined to believe, as he is programmed with the complete scientific knowledge of a hyper-advanced race, and I don;t suppose he'd lie to his own skull-brother, as that would earn him a lot of shit from the only person he doesn't hate and can never escape), and Hulk was still able to toss them around pretty easily.

This is an all ages forum so, y'know....

Hulk was able to toss them around pretty easily because.....he was amped.

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Against Wendigo and Bi-Beast amped a thousandfold, this shows some serious power, but naturally you're going to try and undermine that feat, hopefully with something as desperate as claiming Hulk was amped,

Ohhh....you're catching on now aren't you?

Kids these days and their IPAD sagacity.

which i hope you'll go with because you'll only show how weak your argument is ;)

Oh is that what I'm doing?

Because....I thought I was sharing feats from the book that show Thanos can tank monumentally insane amounts of punishment....while you seem to be struggling to make a credible argument that Hulk brings anything to bear...remotely noteworthy in fact....as to mention it in the same breath as a relevant thing to Thanos' durability....which, to whit...

You have failed to do.

Also, i donðt understand why you argued against Thanos being about to be killed by Odin, Thanos standing so long against Odin is a massive endurance feat, but it wasn't a pure hand to hand and THanos was using his shields

Yeah...no shields were used in his fight with Odin. And, sure....Odin probably would've killed him.

But Odin is, y'know....a confirmed galaxy buster and what not....I got no probs with Odin's superiority over Thanos.

Those feats are entirely relevant as they show how durable Thanos is. If a character destroys a planet with an energy strike and another does it with his fists....how is that different in terms of felt destructive power?

Answer? It isn't.

and they're able to hold off a Galactus blast, so as durable as THanos is, let's not pretend his shields played no in that fight.

No pretending.

Re read the feats I submitted.

Also, you and many others seem to think it some kind of embarassment that Thanos was losing to power gemmed Thor in hand to hand,

Where did I say that? And please make the relevance of a power gem enhanced Thor to this conversation.

You keep....mentioning him....as if you're trying to make some sort of....

point....

or something.

to the point where Pip thought he must be about to get killed, such was the punishment he was taking.

Again, great durability feat for Thanos....Thanos still has better.

I don't see that as a low showing at all, but a massive endurance feat.

Sure...but not seeing the relevance.

However, i personally consider the fact that Hulk is not only able to destroy a planet, which is a great feat in by itself, but the fact that he was unable to NOT destroy a continent just by moving around to be an obvious show that we haven't reven show him testing his limits, not even close.

Learn what this phrase means: NO LIMITS FALLACY.

Applies to the Hulk as well....even WB Hulk. I know fans of the Hulk want to believe there are no limits to his strength....but for the purpose of a battle forum discussion...unless you have evidence....please just stop.

You're going to argue against that and that's okay.

Thank you for allowing me to express my own views freely.

I appreciate that.

I -DO NOT- know this limits, it's all guessing, on my part AND yours.

The only guess work being done is you on the part of WB Hulk. He doesn't have feats that equate to a super nova or a super massive black hole.

Or a galaxy buster like Odin.

But again, i hope you come claiming you know his limitsbecause again, that'll make you look silly,

I hope it shows that I rely on feats in the character's continuity to make a decision about a character's level of power/speed, etc....

since i suppose only Pak knows his true limits, we've yet to see them and we probably never will.

If we go by feats....then, yes....we have.

We DO know however that Hulk's endurance and healing factor are directly related to his strength levels, whihc is completely off the charts in this form.

I love this sentence. Here, you admit you don't know what the full limits of Hulk's strength is....yet you would have me rely on this nebulous claim of limitless strength as concrete evidence of his superiority over Thanos....despite the fact that I've submitted scans of Thanos that clearly show.....Hulk would be hard pressed to the same damage as Odin, a black hole or a super nova.

Thanos has stated that the Hulk is not someone he wishes to fight, when he took on the Champion. Thanos was speaking of a MUCH weaker version of Hulk.

Meh. There are statements....and there are feats.

Feats trump statements everyday of the week.

Noone is downplaying Thanos strength or durability. I'll even admit that i think Thanos would beat him in a legit fight where he had access to all his gadgets and tricks.

In fact, that is very big of you.

But Thanos loses to this Hulk in a h2h or at worst for Hulk, a stalemate, because he is too durable for Thanos to put down.

Save for the fact that, y'know....Hulk doesn't have the feats to show this....

Thing is, we actually haven't seen THNAOS's limits when it comes to h2h because he's been hurt but never knocked out.

*sigh*

Sure. If that is what you want to believe.

We do know THanos has not shown enough striking pwer to put this Hulk down,

It's a time thing. Thanos durability, by feats...far exceeds anything Hulk has ever received.

Hulk beats on Thanos....and Thanos beats on Hulk, with planet busting strikes until Hulk goes down unconscious.

That's a win in my book.

but we do not know the limits of Thanos' physical durability or the Hulk's strength. At worst for Hulk, this is a stalemante

Well...that was special.

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#278 Edited by BlackStarOblivion (2051 posts) - - Show Bio

@pooty said:

Thanos durability feats are greater then his physical output. Meaning he can take a beating. But can't dish out enough punishment to beat this Hulk. If both can take planet busting blows with no trouble. And their strongest blows are planet busting. Then neither can hurt the other

And I would agree with this logic.

However, my contention is that the feats being relied upon in this discussion, namely the world breaker Hulk from Incredible Hulks 630 - 635....that WB Hulk was amped in that fight and is not the WB Hulk that evidently manifested himself after the fight with Sentry.

EDIT:

And....if you're relying on the "feats" from IH's 630 - 635, Hulk DIED in that arc and was, what? Resurrected? Along with everyone else that died from said world breaking.

The fought. They died. And they fought again.

Rinse and repeat.

Not a good feat to show Hulk can endure planet busting from Thanos....who is a confirmed planet buster.

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#279 Edited by traskindustries (2521 posts) - - Show Bio

@20damon said:

he didn't want to face The Champion without them,

If you'd read the story again you'd know that Thanos was toying with Champion, shields or no shields. Champion was posing no threat to Thanos at any point during their fight.

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#280 Posted by 20damon (6141 posts) - - Show Bio

@blackstaroblivion: Haha, Well, you're murdering your own argument by the "He was amped" grasping-at-straws" nonsense. All the best to you, let's see how many people except you actually buy that ;)

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#281 Posted by 20damon (6141 posts) - - Show Bio

@traskindustries: Tricking and toying with are two VERY different things. Thanos was doing the former.

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#282 Posted by pooty (16236 posts) - - Show Bio
@20damon said:

@traskindustries: Tricking and toying with are two VERY different things. Thanos was doing the former.

Agreed. Thanos was not "toying" with Champion. He tricked Champion into thinking thanos was toying with him, in order to piss Champion off. And the only reason Thanos won is because he tricked Champion into destroying the planet. If Champion doesn't destroy the planet there is no evidence that Thanos had any other way to defeat him.

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#283 Posted by BlackStarOblivion (2051 posts) - - Show Bio

@20damon said:

blackstaroblivion: Haha, Well, you're murdering your own argument by the "He was amped" grasping-at-straws" nonsense. All the best to you, let's see how many people except you actually buy that ;)

......

20damon said:

he didn't want to face The Champion without them,

If you'd read the story again you'd know that Thanos was toying with Champion, shields or no shields. Champion was posing no threat to Thanos at any point during their fight.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

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#284 Posted by pooty (16236 posts) - - Show Bio

@blackstaroblivion: I haven't read those issues. I've heard red she hulk was amped. In what post did you state why you think hulk was amped also? I'd like to read it.

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#285 Posted by 20damon (6141 posts) - - Show Bio

@pooty said:

@blackstaroblivion: I haven't read those issues. I've heard red she hulk was amped. In what post did you state why you think hulk was amped also? I'd like to read it.

I'd read heart of the monster and go from there. The description that this guy gives is quite ltierally false and misleading at -best-. You can find Heart of the Monster on youtube if you can't find it online, it's quite a fun read.

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#286 Posted by BlackStarOblivion (2051 posts) - - Show Bio

@pooty said:

I haven't read those issues. I've heard red she hulk was amped. In what post did you state why you think hulk was amped also? I'd like to read it.

Red She Hulk was amped as the narration clearly indicates.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

No Caption Provided

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

To be perfectly clear: you won't find any direct statements...anyone wishing..... in that book that Hulk was amped.

But there is never a statement in that book that Red She Hulk wished for an amp either.

Hulk, for example, asked for a "real fight".

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

No Caption Provided

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

What was the result of his wish?

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

No Caption Provided

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Bi Beast and Wendigo were amped a 1000 x.

Never, at any time....did Hulk ask for them to amped a 1000 x.

And again, there is no direct statement anywhere in those books that show Red She Hulk asked to be on even terms....just as powerful....as WB Hulk.

But the narration clearly says she was.

Hulk, glutted with frustration, finally made this statement:

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

No Caption Provided

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

"We're going to fight like no one has ever fought before. And we're gonna die. And then we're gonna fight some more."

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Again....no direct statement of amping.....but again, no direct statements of Wendigo and Bi Beast being amped or....of Red She Hulk.

Yet all, were clearly amped.

Hence, the conclusion I've drawn....Hulk was amped. Keep in my mind....Hulk's wish above was fulfilled in a never ending cycle of fighting and dying.

He couldn't very well bring about the end of the world against Red She Hulk, now his equal, and Wendigo and Bi Beast....both amped a 1000 x....without being amped himself could he?

My point is this: the feats for WB Hulk in Incredible Hulk's 630 - 635....are not clean. They should not be admissible is clear evidence of WB Hulk....breaking worlds.

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#287 Posted by traskindustries (2521 posts) - - Show Bio

@20damon said:

@traskindustries: Tricking and toying with are two VERY different things. Thanos was doing the former.

Looks like toying to me.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5Gallery image 6

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#288 Posted by 20damon (6141 posts) - - Show Bio

@pooty said:

I haven't read those issues. I've heard red she hulk was amped. In what post did you state why you think hulk was amped also? I'd like to read it.

Red She Hulk was amped as the narration clearly indicates.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

No Caption Provided

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

To be perfectly clear: you won't find any direct statements...anyone wishing..... in that book that Hulk was amped.

But there is never a statement in that book that Red She Hulk wished for an amp either.

Hulk, for example, asked for a "real fight".

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

No Caption Provided

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

What was the result of his wish?

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

No Caption Provided

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Bi Beast and Wendigo were amped a 1000 x.

Never, at any time....did Hulk ask for them to amped a 1000 x.

And again, there is no direct statement anywhere in those books that show Red She Hulk asked to be on even terms....just as powerful....as WB Hulk.

But the narration clearly says she was.

Hulk, glutted with frustration, finally made this statement:

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

No Caption Provided

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

"We're going to fight like no one has ever fought before. And we're gonna die. And then we're gonna fight some more."

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Again....no direct statement of amping.....but again, no direct statements of Wendigo and Bi Beast being amped or....of Red She Hulk.

Yet all, were clearly amped.

Hence, the conclusion I've drawn....Hulk was amped. Keep in my mind....Hulk's wish above was fulfilled in a never ending cycle of fighting and dying.

He couldn't very well bring about the end of the world against Red She Hulk, now his equal, and Wendigo and Bi Beast....both amped a 1000 x....without being amped himself could he?

My point is this: the feats for WB Hulk in Incredible Hulk's 630 - 635....are not clean. They should not be admissible is clear evidence of WB Hulk....breaking worlds.

This is amazing, you're LITERALLY wrecking your own arguments by showing the first scan, which says she-Rulk is brought up to Worldbreaker's level so he can fight her without the fear of KILLING her. And Hulk asked for a real fight so Wendigo and Bi-Beast were brought to levels of power where they were supposed to be a challenge for Hulk. For this version of Hulk, that emans their power had to be increased a thousandfold and it STILL wasn't enough to challenge him, speaks pretty high of his power levels doesn't it? I don't even need to debate with you, you're making my points for me ;)

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#289 Posted by 20damon (6141 posts) - - Show Bio

@20damon said:

@traskindustries: Tricking and toying with are two VERY different things. Thanos was doing the former.

Looks like toying to me.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5Gallery image 6

We can agree to disagree, but you should post the next few pages as well there Thanos is surprised by his power and ferocity and feels he needs to end this fight before he gets stronger.

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#290 Posted by BlackStarOblivion (2051 posts) - - Show Bio

@20damon said:

We can agree to disagree, but you should post the next few pages as well there Thanos is surprised by his power and ferocity and feels he needs to end this fight before he gets stronger.

And we should post the part where....Champion, blows up the planet and thinks he's won.

Then Thanos takes the gem from him like candy from a baby....because, he toyed with him....and tricked him.

You can cite the narration all day....but again....feats trump statements.

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#291 Posted by BlackStarOblivion (2051 posts) - - Show Bio

@20damon said:

This is amazing, you're LITERALLY wrecking your own arguments by showing the first scan, which says she-Rulk is brought up to Worldbreaker's level so he can fight her without the fear of KILLING her.

You appear to have outsmarted yourself....because you fail to understand that their fighting and dying....over and over again....was part of Hulk's wish

And Hulk asked for a real fight so Wendigo and Bi-Beast were brought to levels of power where they were supposed to be a challenge for Hulk.

Hah. I love how you just insert that in there.

The whole thing was wish driven. Accept it. The feat isn't clean man.

For this version of Hulk, that emans their power had to be increased a thousandfold and it STILL wasn't enough to challenge him, speaks pretty high of his power levels doesn't it? I don't even need to debate with you, you're making my points for me ;)

Heh.

It only shows what I've been saying all along: they were all amped.

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#292 Posted by 20damon (6141 posts) - - Show Bio

Haha, they hadn't been there long enough to fulfill the dying part. And the fact that you're the only one desperate enough to make the "amped" claim to no-sell Worldbreaker's feats speaks volumes to its validity..... (I'm calling the claim worthless). Like i said, i don't even need to debate this with you, the more you try to prove it the more you're actually making MY point. So, keep going, by all means.

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#293 Edited by BlackStarOblivion (2051 posts) - - Show Bio

@20damon said:

Haha, they hadn't been there long enough to fulfill the dying part. And the fact that you're the only one desperate enough to make the "amped" claim to no-sell Worldbreaker's feats speaks volumes to its validity.....

I'm sorry you're disturbed by what I've shown.

Not a single statement: "make Bi Beast and Wendigo 1000 x more powerful than they previously were".

Where is that statement again?

Right. Not there.

So....there doesn't have to be a direct statement saying Hulk was amped. It was implied.

And for this plot device driven story...implied is good enough.

20damon said:

(I'm calling the claim worthless).

Huh.

Cause I kind of thought you meant your claim was worthless.

20damon said:

Like i said, i don't even need to debate this with you, the more you try to prove it the more you're actually making MY point. So, keep going, by all means.

No need to.

See previous posts above.

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#294 Posted by 20damon (6141 posts) - - Show Bio

@blackstaroblivion: Oh, i think i best explain to you since i genuinely think you don't know the story. The wishing well takes your wishes and twists them against you. When Hulk was saying he wanted a real fight, he didn't know he was making a wish, so the wishing well amped his foes thousandfold. The need for exact statements in order for wishes, is not there. Now you know :)

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#295 Edited by BlackStarOblivion (2051 posts) - - Show Bio

@20damon said:

Oh, i think i best explain to you since i genuinely think you don't know the story. The wishing well takes your wishes and twists them against you.

Not really. But yeah, everyone's wishes were flying around and creating all sorts of unexpected results.

The author of the book said as much:

No Caption Provided
20damon said:

When Hulk was saying he wanted a real fight, he didn't know he was making a wish, so the wishing well amped his foes thousandfold. The need for exact statements in order for wishes, is not there. Now you know :)

Dude, you are seriously making me laugh. I said.... no exact statements were needed for said amping to occur....yet, people have been saying, "where is the statement that Hulk was amped?.....".

Right.

There weren't any. But Hulk was amped.

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#296 Edited by 20damon (6141 posts) - - Show Bio
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#297 Posted by BreakingThrones (1104 posts) - - Show Bio

Only h2h thanos loses.

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#298 Edited by Thedailybagel (12911 posts) - - Show Bio

@blackstaroblivion: your knowledge on the subject is genuinely horrendous.

The whole point of wishes in that comic was that they backfired if you didn't phrase them perfectly, for example amadeus asked for help which in turn summoned bi-beast, Wendigo, arm'cheddon and umar... Because the wish backfired. Amadeus then asked for the avengers, but he didn't say it properly so hundreds of cosplayers turned up out of nowhere. You didn't even need to explicitly say you wanted a wish, for example huok stomped wendigo because he'd grown in power over the years and asked for a real fight, which in turn amped them 1000 fold. I think Dr strange himself implies that hulk wished to be taken away from Earth without innocents to harm so he could finally cut loose, and this is supported when strange says things like "he doesn't have to worry about billions of innocents now", or tyrranus saying "free from his fear of cutting loose" or Rick saying on panel that hulk could break a planet, all supported by hulk saying out loud that he was holding back before, but he isn't going to this time.

In fact, where does it even imply hulk was amped?

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#299 Posted by Thedailybagel (12911 posts) - - Show Bio

@pooty: if you want I can link you to a YouTube series showing heart of the monster.mits a good read and nowhere does it even imply hulk was amped.

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#300 Edited by pooty (16236 posts) - - Show Bio

@thedailybagel: Thanks but i found it. I don't believe Hulk was amped. He never ask to be amped. The narration doesn't say he was amped. Even as WWH he was a planetary threat.