Thanos vs Darkseid

@supermanthor: Rampage answered your question correctly.

There is a Multiversal Guarding Living Tribunal. Then there are his M-Bodies or Manifestations for each Universe. As with Multi-Eternity does the same as well. This has been standard of Marvel Abstracts for quite a while now.

It's like God and Jesus.

This is the reasoning for several misconceptions of feats from Marvel. That often leads to wank at times.

@sungsam: theoretically can there is a mutiversal galatucs exist some where in marvel ?

Not really. Starlin retconned multiversal avatar LT to just universal LT. He mentions LT being slain by Beyonders.

Al Ewing confirmed the same in Ultimates letter page.

So the LT which died during Time Runs Out was Multiversal form right ? I mean it was mention during Times Runs Out that it was multiversal .

@biswaboxz: Starlin retconned it as universal LT.

@biswaboxz:

Yeah, it said LT was Multiversal.

@motifian: In other words, it depends on writer interpretation at this point.

It's like the whole Hypertime vs Metaverse vs Bleed Space issue. Do they reconcile? All three are various interpretations of DC's Physical Quantum Multiverse, they are all portrayed as being below 5 Dimensional (except for the Metaverse) and they function differently but occupy the same level of existence.

The problem however, is that discussions of interpreting messy comic logic like this depends on the agreement of standards put forth by the debaters.

So you choose to believe in the newer retcon then.

@sungsam: Yeah it was Multiversal and technically LT being Multiversal still remain canon according Marvel Handbook.

@biswaboxz: LT (at least the real one) is always Multiversal by its own responsibility. (the size integrity of Marvel's Multiverse however is questionable and is probably smaller than what Marvel fans would care to admit, but that's another story) It's just that Starlin retconned WHICH LT was killed by HOTU. It wasn't the real LT, it was just an M-Body. Plot twist, hurr durr, comic logic, you get the idea.

This doesn't harm LT's power gauging and scaling, it more so harms HOTU's power scales to feats. The HOTU only defeated a Universe level LT M-Body, not the real LT.

The problem with Current LT is that he seems to be more like a Multiversal function inside Multi-Eternity. The idea of an abstract embodying the Marvel Multiverse has been taken over by Multi-Eternity.

@sungsam: Wel Starlin's OGNS are not canon therefore retconning as Universe LT is seemed kinda of pointless . But yeah I do realize that the LT which was killed by HOTU Thanos was an M-body of LT but thanks for the heads btw :).

@biswaboxz: Who said Starlin's OGN are non canon?

@rampagethefirst: to absorb the LT it had to be shown to be above universal no?

@phillip33: Not necessarily, LT went to Thanos, not the other way around. Thanos was technically scratching the surface of Omnipotence in his own Universe and LT and the other abstracts walked right into it. The scope of HoTU isn't Multiversal, it caps out at Universal but the raw power of HoTU is technically limitless, just that the scope has limitations. Get it? it's a bit confusing lol.

But take a look at this scan from The End #6.

In that scan, Thanos rants about all the heroes attacking him and goes on to say that he was ultimate ruler of the "reality". In the entire arc, the term "Multiverse" has never been used, even the name, it's Heart of The "Universe", the only reason he absorbed LT was because he walked right into Thanos' Universe where he technically came really close to Omnipotence.

This scan is the most important one, this is where we see how he couldn't absorb anything other than a singular Universe.

Gallery

In the scan, you see Adam Warlock coming out of a mystic portal and Thanos seems surprised by his sudden appearance because Thanos thought he absorbed everything but in reality, he only absorbed a non-canon Universe (forgot the earth name). He pretty much let lose by the end of the arc and used up all of his powers but the only thing he could absorb was a singular Universe, his powers couldn't go any further than a singular Universe hence why Adam Warlock was still alive, this even shocked Thanos but Adam Warlock then goes on to explain how he only absorbed a singular Universe/reality.

Furthermore, it was confirmed in a handbook that Thanos only absorbed a singular Universe and not a Multiverse or Omniverse that most people mistake him for.

I highlighted the parts which are important, although you can read through the whole thing but the handbook explicitly states that he only absorbed a singular Universe and never went beyond that because the scope of his powers had a clear limitation.

So in conclusion.

• Thanos only absorbed a singular Universe because his powers couldn't usurp a singular Universe.

Does that mean Thanos is only Universal?

• No, absolutely not. That would be lowballing. He's Multiversal at best because even if his powers scope had a limitation, the raw power didn't. He could still absorb Multiversal beings in his own Universe.

Can Thanos perform these feats if they were in a different Universe and attacked him from that Universe?

• No, sadly not. Thanos would be completely powerless due to the scope of his powers having a clear limitation on them.
• If LT and the other abstracts had known about this, they would've definitely easily won by attacking him from a different Universe but didn't due to plot.

Does this make HoTU any less impressive?

• Not really, just clearing the misconception that he didn't absorb the Multiverse but a singular Universe, not that it matters since he's still a Multiversal being.

Does HoTU have a limitation?

• Yes, already explained how.

So yeah, that's it.

6500;post says still thanos

@rampagethefirst: ahh so because the living tribunal entered thanos’ universe while thanos was using the HOTU, he was able to absorb him? And had thanos traversed outside of his universe to attack the living tribunal the HOTU would have been useless?

@phillip33: Yup, to say otherwise would be entirely speculative.

@rampagethefirst: ok thanks for clearing that up.

@phillip33: Yup, no problem.

Bump

Darksied one shots

Darkseid does indeed one-shot, but it's nice to be on CV, the only place without Death Battle DS wankers.

LOL at darksied oneshoting

Thanos wins in a tough fight

Remember that time when Darkseid one shotted Thanos level characters? Yeah, me neither. Remember those instances when he failed to come close to one shotting people way less durable than Thanos? Yeah, I remember those. There are a lot of those.

@krleavenger: if my memory doesn't betray me current darksied was struggling against cyborg for brief period of time

Lol this is one of the biggest debates ever.

Thanos in a good fight due to better and more consistent feats. Give him the HOTU and he stomps any version of Darkseid.

@takenstew22:

Without artefacts DS wins. Thanos only wins due to things like the IG and HOTU.

Thanos wins even without IG.

Thanos still wins with low difficulty.

@takenstew22: Don't listen to that guy

Ot Thanos

Unless I see feats of base Darkseid fighting Skyfather level beings for several pages, I'm still going with Thanos.

thanos because ig

although the scenario was seemingly mcu

but this is comic thanos at full power

darkseid's full power isn't impressive compared to that

thanos takes this

Dione

Aaaand Thanos takes it once again

@greenroost:

Depends if he means fullest power with amps/artefacts or just full power without them.

Without DS takes it easily, physically superior and has OE

With artefacts its the IG vs Soulfire/ALE

Thanos

true

What?

OT: Thanos wins because IG.

Darkseid wins in an epic fight.

Physically superior is debatable.

Thanos has survived worse than Omega Beams though.

Darkseid does not win in an epic fight.

@takenstew22:

As it always is

OE does have the power to just erase someone from existence, DC obviously has PIS to prevent this but PIS holds no power here

true

Currently Thanos is badass. Pre Crisis Darkseid is beat but current he isn't really a threat

@clownprinceofcrime1995: Thanos has resisted something of the sort before.

I know this isn't existence erasure but still an impressive reality warping resistance feat.

thanos

Darkseid brings his true form into Thanos' universe and wipes it out gg

The problem with Thanos is he always has outside help! I feel like in battles we shouldn't count feats where Mistress Death is protecting him from death.

In that case I say Darkseid but I know that I'll get hate for it

We don't. And she barely ever helps him.